Posts by codejunky

Re: Hmm

@Stoneshop

I think you misinterpreted my comment. Its about Johnsons character.

Re: Hmm

@LionelB

"But pre-Brexit it worked - less people were being shot at and blown up."

Reading that whole paragraph I wonder how your advice goes for al qaeda, ISIS or basically any attacks on others by a politically motivated terrorist group? Also your suggestion seems to suggest the UK was conquered by ROI and that the UK only exists under Irish control.

Except to apply the same logic ROI is responsible for leaving the EU as they are under UK control. Because we left they need to as well in order to keep the peace (not the GFA as you seem to accept its not in there).

But you dont agree because for some reason whats good for the goose isnt good for the gander or something. Or as I look at it, the UK is sovereign and the EU is sovereign (ROI being limited by the EU and NI being limited by UK) meaning it is up to them to meet some agreement.

"Of course the same issues pertain to Brexit - what have we sacrificed in the name of some idealistic notion of national sovereignty? Was it worth it? (You can guess my answer.)"

And you can guess mine. You call sacrificed yet immediate benefits of brexit demonstrated the problems brexiters had been pointing out. You like to say stupid stuff like jingoistic pride yet its the same nationalistic spirit the EU has been desperate to foster in the people in the member countries for the EU. The same pride you are showing for the supranational institution and immediate brexit benefits plus ongoing crises of the EU show it being a problematic entity to defend.

Re: Hmm

Wow there is a sudden spring of AC comments from (I assume only one) coward who doesnt want such rubbish to their name. Reading the posts I can see why.

Re: Hmm

@LionelB

"Empty words, given that, post-Brexit, no-one has a clue how to actually make that happen in such a way as to maintain any semblance of peace in NI"

Right so I guess we are moving on from the claim that brexit breaks the GFA which seems to be incorrect to moving the goal posts to a hypothetical peace which we dont have with the current arrangement and hypothetical disruption of the peace if the EU dictates a border. Which brings us to, how is that the UK's problem?

Re: Hmm

@Roland6

Eh?

Re: Hmm

@Charlie Clark

"What is your point?"

A direct reply to 'The NI protocol was the UK's idea, proposed by Johnson and negotiated by Lord Frost'. The point being it was May. Your entire post doesnt seem to have any issue with it so not sure why you have an issue with that.

"Who could have thought that such an overtly political opportunist like Johnson would drop the issue as soon as possible?"

So far me and Dr Syntax seem able to agree on Johnsons lack of reliability. The rest of your post has been burned to bits so many times I think you can look at my other replies to answer it.

Re: Hmm

@Charlie Clark

"You mean like Mr Rees-Mogg and his investment company?"

What about it? I am wondering if you mean the lie that it moved or something else?

Re: Codejunky

@Warm Braw

"You can't really write back in the free movement of goods and services without actually rejoining the Customs Union and Single Market"

Bits that as you already pointed out wernt written in. So the situation has changed and so the agreement must be modified to suit the new circumstances or scrapped. Saying the world cant continue because of an agreement that doesnt say what you want is stupid. The GFA at no point states the UK cannot leave the EU, its a sovereign decision of the UK (and ROI btw).

"But EU membership also had majority support in Northern Ireland."

Which is a part of the UK and the UK had a vote (and many more).

Re: Hmm

@LogicGate

"Oh.. And the point of common purchasing was to avoid a bidding war where the highest bidder would get to hoard all vaccines."

The end result. Since the EU member countries only really got vaccine when they abandoned the EU plan and ordered it themselves. Including Germany!! They were reasonably early at abandoning the joint program.

"imagine what would have happened if Germany had decided to go alone and outbid the UK?"

Also the Germans would probably have signed the contracts which the EU didnt for a long time. If they did that the Germans wouldnt have just been manufacturing vaccine but be receiving it.

But the actual outcome would be the EU trying to steal it from Germany just as they did from everyone else.

Re: Hmm

@batfink

"Nice avoidance of the point."

You need to reread the post then. You might get the point... maybe.

"The UK ran its own vaccination program, as it was perfectly entitled to under EU rules."

This sounds like the UK supremacist argument again. Every member state under pressure from the EU went with the EU procurement of vaccine. Every single one. And some (including Germany) ditched their already prepared plans to join the EU procurement. So do you believe the UK to be better run than every member country of the EU?

"The UK ran this program while still an EU member"

You will have an argument with remainers saying that. We were in the transition stage which leavers considered being trapped in the EU but remainers insisted we were out.

"What the rest of the European countries did is completely irrelevant"

Stealing and directly threatening the UK supplies of vaccine by the EU isnt irrelevant.

"This had zero to do with Brexit"

Except for being the reason we didnt join the joint procurement with the EU. Hence we got vaccine and watched the cluster fck.

"And yes, trying to conflate this somehow as a benefit of Brexit still is the last grasp of the Brexiters."

I am amused to watch your desperation of somehow trying to claim that and pretend to be credible.

Re: Hmm

@H in The Hague

"I'm not familiar with the details, but I get the impression that vaccine procurement is now going perfectly well, and that the EU negotiated lower prices than the UK."

It is worth looking at the details as it really shows a serious proof of leave having good reason. The EU first failed to order enough (the French blocked it), then they didnt sign the orders, refused to approve the vaccines, then blamed the companies for following the contracts (the EU didnt understand their own agreements), tried to steal vaccine and raided manufacturing plants (and found they were wrong), accused AstraZeneca of various things all absurd and then took them to court (and failed), cried like babies that the world was against them and even the EU fanatics turned on it. A lot went on.

As for the situation improving, that is true. Not because the EU fixed its problems but because member countries looked at the UK getting vaccine (ROI was upset and only able to watch) and abandoned the EU procurement ordering vaccine themselves. Things got so bad that some manufacturing companies decided not to deal with the EU but with countries directly. There is even accusations that the French stole shipments from Holland to the UK (the AZ vaccine they railed against).

I have yet to see anything redeeming come from the EU vaccination efforts, it just reads as a 'how not to' manual

"Interesting point: do you rush through approval so you can start vaccinating early, or do you have a more thorough approval because you're going to give a new vaccine to millions of people and want to be confident it's going to do more good than harm? Any medical statisticians out there who could comment on this?"

Fair question, and the EU adoption was seriously behind due to the slow approval even as the rest of the developed world was getting vaccinated. A lot of these problems on approval however was the EU trying not to provide the standard guarantee for vaccinations to shift the responsibility onto the companies. And the companies aint that stupid.

"Incidentally, as far as I'm aware the implementation of the vaccination programmes is a matter for national governments, not the EU"

That of course relied on there being vaccine. The EU (as above) failing spectacularly to order it. After placing an order they were asked if they wanted a lot more (the company offered) only to be turned down because the French insisted their Sanofi vaccine must make up a good portion of all EU ordering. The vaccine was a failure.

It is a fascinating situation to read.

Re: Hmm

@H in The Hague

"Call me old fashioned, but I thought in British political discourse we don't usually refer to those we disagree with as traitors."

Agreed. But what do we call political people who give away part of the UK territory without agreement of the very people in that territory? Or even political parties not in power trying to negotiate behind the governments back (publicly too) to undermine the critical negotiations (Corbyn)? Thats not about political opinion but direct actions against the people and country.

"Incidentally, what is the correct term for those who sided with foreign politicians such as Trump, Putin and Le Pen whose reasons for supporting Brexit probably had more to do with their own national interests than those of the United (for now) Kingdom?"

No idea to be honest. Depending on their involvement it could be foreign actors I guess (such as Obama too reading Camerons speech) but that does happen anyway. Farage even campaigning for Trump. But as its not our own acting directly against us with explicit intention of undermining and damaging the country it isnt traitor.

Re: Hmm

@Doctor Syntax

"The Good Friday agreement was predicated on NI and the EU being in the single market, hence removing the need for a hard border"

So you agree its not in the good Friday agreement? So not in the GFA hence not breaking the GFA?

"That's why NI has to remain in the single market for it to function"

Actually thats complete tosh. Its an agreement which needs to evolve with the changing circumstances. not a document dictating the UK has been conquered and has no right to self determination.

"If NI is in the single market and the UK isn't then there has to be some form of customs border in the Irish Sea"

If you feel there must be a border there between Ireland and the EU thats up to you and I would accept that solution too. Or didnt you mean that?

Re: Hmm

@LionelB

"... aka the EU acted in self-interest after our - our - decision to leave. Who could possibly have predicted that?"

Yes of course they did. And brexiters predicted it and expected it and that is why brexit was better negotiated by the brexit part of government instead of those desperate to remain. However the situation wasnt helped by sore losers doing everything in their power to force remain and cry like babies when the UK acted in the UK's interests. Amusingly remainers have cried so hard when the UK did something in the same vein which brought me much amusement on these forums.

"In fact it's worked out so well for us that we're now seeing a raft of other EU states clamouring to leave... oh, wait..."

Go on finish that thought. Please make me laugh some more. Describe how the all for one approach fell apart quickly over vaccines and the borderless travel between states saw such a quick change. While Poland and Hungary slap the EU for fun leading to talk of them leaving (as of last September anyway). The friction as members pull their own way and even French politicians running on getting back sovereignty from the EU. Go on make me laugh some more.

Re: Codejunky

@Richard 12

"Sir, you are a fool. An imbecile"

Followed by-

"Every other possible option is going to piss off a majority of NI residents. The only question is who."

Damn so we agree. Fools think alike only you pick the annexing of NI over the already existing division of Ireland by the border that already is in Ireland.

"The current treaty is probably the best (albeit still pretty rubbish) option for NI residents, because most stuff in shops actually comes from Ireland, not Great Britain."

Stuff in shops was an issue due to delays getting the stuff moved from GB to NI. And there is no data (as in not collected) for trade between GB and NI which makes such a claim uncertain.

Re: Hmm

@iron

"You might want a wee talk with the local political parties and paramilitary organisations before making sweeping changes from on high."

Absolutely. So its not a good idea what has been implemented with such political and local distaste.

Re: Hmm

@John Brown (no body)

"Ummm...yeah. You might want to read up on your history a bit. It might not be a great situation we find ourselves in today, but your interpretation of the history of the island of Ireland and the British involvement is rather at odds with reality."

So the troubles just happened with no build up? Because there seems to be a building up of tensions including death threats causing customs to back off at one point and so far the UK to delay implementing the more.... disliked... EU demanded checks.

Re: Hmm

@LionelB

"Fully agree; intractable insofar as the Good Friday peace accord and Brexit are fundamentally incompatible (who knew?)"

So that would lead to either the GFA requiring competent renegotiating (yeah I laughed) or being at odds with the sovereignty of the UK and ROI. Last I checked ROI doesnt own the UK, so it does seem to be the agreement that needs either amending or scrapping (based on the desires of both parties).

Re: Hmm

@Doctor Syntax

"I'm not at all sure about that."

Based on our discussion where I am walking you through the GFA lack of border description I think you might want to hold onto your stones in your glass house.

Re: Hmm

@LionelB

"Curious... no, duplicitous usage of "annex" (as you well know)."

Not at all. It is about right.

"He, he. I think you'll find that depends somewhat on which Irish person you ask"

I am fairly sure that is the case with placing the border in the sea or in Ireland, it depends which person you ask.

"Then there's that little thing called the Good Friday Agreement (as you well know)."

Yes, which doesnt mention much about the border. But even if it did its an agreement between the UK and ROI, and since the UK clearly stated no desire to break it while expressing our sovereign right not to be part of the EU you must be talking about the other side breaking it.

"Ah, that old chestnut, the Brexiters last grasp at the straw."

Eh what? Are you seriously trying to brush off the absolute failure and devastatingly bad management of vaccine procurement by the EU as a last straw or amusingly 'old' chestnut??? Are you stupid or just acting it? A clear and damaging failure demonstrating clearly why leaving was a good idea and an immediate benefit of brexit which is both recent and fresh in the minds?

"Of course as an EU member the UK could have implemented it's vaccination program as it chose (as you well know)."

Yes, except every single member country chose to go with the plan, even members such as Germany who already had a plan abandoned it to show solidarity etc. So are you claiming the UK is better run than every member country in the EU? To me that is UK supremacist.

Also after failing so publicly the EU literally suggested and acted to steal vaccine destined for the UK and others. Had we remained in the EU and followed your hypothetical freedom to still go our own way, do you believe the EU wouldnt have tried to steal the vaccine and used membership as an excuse to do so?

Also assuming you are a believer in the need for vaccine as a life saving tool (not a dig, this might not apply to you) dont you recognise that the EU's slow pace to approve vaccine nor will to actually sign the orders killed people? Made the infection situation worse?

Re: Hmm

@Doctor Syntax

"This difficulty is the inevitable predictable and predicted consequence of the combination of Brexit and the Good Friday agreement. Which do you think should be scrapped?"

Brexit is a UK decision we have the right to do regardless of traitors trying to sell off the country and as far as I have heard the border isnt particularly mentioned nor states the border or its form. However assuming it did the GFA is between 2 parties which means the UK can brexit and still abide the GFA and that would require the other half to abide by it. Aka if the EU broke it (Ireland broke it because of the EU) thats their choice not ours.

Re: Hmm

@Charlie Clark

"The NI protocol was the UK's idea, proposed by Johnson and negotiated by Lord Frost"

Theresa May proposed the Irish backstop didnt she? Johnson inherited the proposal and Frost had been bypassed by May because he wasnt making progress (aka the EU refused to negotiate in good faith and he didnt just cave to them).

Re: Hmm

@LionelB

"Yes, perfect (give or take a few hundred years of Irish history)."

Again, the annexing of NI does not improve on that situation, makes it no better.

"To the pain? That's a bit harsh, what did I ever do to you?"

Assuming you are in the UK you were probably offered the vaccine while the EU tried to figure out its arse from its elbow. You also got out of the covid bailout fund. Thats a start.

Re: Hmm

@Stork

"If it was such a bad idea, why did Mr. Frost negotiate it and Mr. Johnson sign it?"

Frost wasnt for budging in the negotiations if I remember right. It was May who pushed into the negotiations because she wanted to remain (bino). Johnson is only interested in getting elected which left him as the best hope for getting out as May and Cameron really didnt want to leave the EU.

Re: Hmm

@A Non e-mouse

"* - And by "history" I mean the deaths of many Irish & British/English citizens."

Not sure how the EU annexing NI does that. Kinda runs over the history of the many deaths you mention

Re: Hmm

@Filippo

"Well, it would solve the customs problem though."

That got a good chuckle.

"(btw, in the previous post, I meant "Ireland, UK and continental Europe"; apologies)"

I meant the same. Sorry I wasnt trying to be awkward just sarcastic. As I assume you guessed the border where it should be is UK / EU

Re: Hmm

@LionelB

"... and unsolves the ROI to UK."

Which amazingly doesnt make it any more complicated but less. Because that puts the border between the UK and EU without the grey area.

"It seems we decided exactly how much pain we wished to inflict upon ourselves in June 2016."

And you are welcome. Could have been worse. Could have remained.

Re: Hmm

@Filippo

"back around the whole of NI, UK and continental Europe"

I think that would cause more problems if the UK invaded Europe to move the border that far.

Re: Hmm

@Paul Crawford

"Er, how exactly will that help with the HMRC / EU customs paperwork? Won't it just bring yet another set of changes to the system requirements?"

It solves the NI to Britain. For HMRC / EU customs we can only choose how much we wish to inflict upon ourselves.

@msobkow

Isnt it a product available for users but for the snails pace of government bureaucracy? Not sure how offering a product for people to choose if they wish in competition with other offerings is fleecing.

Re: You sure make some stupid statements.

@CRConrad

"Now stop being such a doofus."

Hey long time for you to come up with that reply. Probably better you let me think you were a doofus than demonstrate it but as I said its the kind of stupidity I was mocking. Its your choice but if I was you I wouldnt announce too loud that you believe the EU is so old. You will be considered on par with creationism and dinosaur fossils placed by god to mess with us.

Re: Is this an EU or Europe thing ?

@AC

"The SNP?"

What about them?

Re: Is this an EU or Europe thing ?

@Lars

"Like Mogg's cheap shoes for poor children."

Whats wrong with that?

Re: Is this an EU or Europe thing ?

@werdsmith

Not sure how your comment is a response to mine. Just sounds like complaining for the sake of complaining.

Re: Is this an EU or Europe thing ?

@AC

""Cheaper Chips" seems to be a phrase that highlight a very profond lack of knowledge on the semiconductor sector."

The rest of your comment doesnt seem to disagree with cheaper chips as the reality though. You call it a profound lack of knowledge but then accept its true.

"supply queue and everyone else has to start scrabbling around in a panic because they have no domestic production themselves."

That instead is a supply issue. One which seems to be less of an issue if the US and EU are paying to produce there so there is 'competition' with Asia. The reason its still uneconomical to manufacture the chips here is because even when demand is higher than supply the things still just cost too much to produce in the expensive countries.

Re: Is this an EU or Europe thing ?

@Fazal Majid

"The UK is the home of ARM, but let SoftBank, a Japanese company specializing in Ponzi schemes like Uber or WeWork, acquire its tech crown jewel."

A private company sold privately and currently being blocked from privately selling privately to another private business. Private used to mean something.

"As for Intel’s plans to open a cutting-edge fab in Europe, their CEO clearly stated the UK is not in the running because of Brexit."

Thankfully. Look at the subsidies needed to make these fabs in expensive countries. We have high costs in labour, bureaucracy, health and safety, electricity, etc to produce something we cannot compete on price with. Better let the US and EU pay it out and UK benefit like the rest of the world from cheaper chips.

Re: Is this an EU or Europe thing ?

@AC

Wish you didnt post that as AC because that is spot on. Its easy to complain about the current government but right now there isnt an opposition party.

Re: @AC

@AC

"And YET again you miss the point, or more likely pretend to miss it with your faux incredulity, so you can carry on with your soapbox rant."

So either we are talking cross purposes or you are remaining AC for a complete lack of grasp on gas prices hitting all countries heavily reliant on gas because there is a shortage and some countries going green rely on it heavily. But to you its softened by something pointless to the price rise (lack of the resource necessary to generate power)?

Its not a soapbox rant, just slapping you with the facts hoping at some point it sinks in.

"The point made was that the problem was made worse by leaving the Single Market and thus having to pay far more to cover the shortfall"

The French may disagree-

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2021-09-24/france-slams-eu-s-single-electricity-market-as-aberration

Yet the problem in multiple countries all relying on gas due to green commitments are all having the same problem. A shortage of gas (this keeps coming up dont it). Spain is in on the problem too (although asking the EU to fix it seems suicidal)-

https://www.ft.com/content/463d0eed-c9c3-4a2d-9958-0125c864237d

Oddly the problem seems to be a shortage of gas. And why are these countries so reliant on gas? (its in the links) decarbonising goals. Green garbage that dont work.

Re: @AC

@AC

"And as I said, you completely miss the point and continue to."

I just read your comment and cannot believe you start with this line. Unless its irony? Satire?

"The reason GB is hit so hard by the current situation is due to leaving the common energy market."

Except the UK is having the same problems as other 'green' countries, so it isnt a problem with leaving the common energy market. That is why I have mentioned France and Germany where France isnt having these issues. The problem is the reliance on monuments to a sky god which require gas power generators and we have a lack of gas supply. To resolve that we either run other power generators (not unreliables) or fracking which would make us self sufficient with cheap gas for decades.

"What the cause of the situation is, is not the point."

Except the cause of the situation is why inside or outside such common energy market the problem is still the same. Its green insanity on unreliables which is the problem completely.

"The point is any such problem would be worse."

If we went to the extent of Germany then yes it would be worse. If we decided to copy say France it wouldnt be. And there are other options too which would solve this.

"(And obviously that is not to say there wouldn't be a sizable hit, just that the Single Market takes the edge off it.)"

The thing taking the edge off is France raking it in by selling its 'green' neighbours electricity because the French are actually generating it. Hell even Biden went begging to Putin when he undid Trumps good work at self sufficiency and lower prices.