Posts by codejunky

Re: OK.

@James 51

"You keep bringing up FUD about the wash."

Yes. That is because the comment you responded to by Jellied Eel who commented on the FUD: https://forums.theregister.com/forum/all/2022/01/31/brexit_freedom_bill/#c_4406785

And you went on to claim that isnt what it was really about even though that is the the FUD these people feared before the revised version that bothers you: https://forums.theregister.com/forum/all/2022/01/31/brexit_freedom_bill/#c_4407081

I am hammering this home because the FUD was real. It was a poor argument against brexit to feed the fear campaign and was shot down and debunked many times because the FUD was repeated so often. Its like trying to find a Euro (as UK currency) supporter, suddenly it didnt happen. But it did.

"pretending the wash was the sole problem and managed to construct the strawman you're so busy whacking."

Stop lying. I am not letting you get away with rewriting history, but I have engaged you on your issue with animal rights. So I am not only pulling you up for trying to brush off the reality of what happened but also willing to discuss your issue.

"I always understood when chlorine wash chicken was used in the media that meant"

That might be your take from it, kudo's if it really was. But that doesnt account for the FUD which was real-

https://www.npr.org/sections/thesalt/2014/09/30/351774240/european-activists-say-they-dont-want-any-u-s-chlorine-chicken?t=1643792737371

https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/europe/free-trade-with-us-europe-balks-at-chlorine-chicken-hormone-beef/2014/12/04/e9aa131c-6c3f-11e4-bafd-6598192a448d_story.html (I liked this bit- That move comes after actors in chicken outfits in one French protest troupe — dubbed the “chicken brigade” — tried to “chlorinate themselves” in a public pool.

Thats just a very quick search for what was years of FUD. And people believed the chlorine wash itself was the problem as I have already pointed out to you.

"You still haven't mentioned why we should lower our animal welfare standards to allow the sale of this chicken which if it was produced in the same way in the UK day, would be demeed unfit for human consumption."

I have early in our conversation- https://forums.theregister.com/forum/all/2022/01/31/brexit_freedom_bill/#c_4407098

I even quoted what I said because you missed it the first time- https://forums.theregister.com/forum/all/2022/01/31/brexit_freedom_bill/#c_4407203

And again- https://forums.theregister.com/forum/all/2022/01/31/brexit_freedom_bill/#c_4407345

If you cant read or understand then you need to ask the specific part your struggling with. But to say I havnt mentioned why is blatant ignorance of the comments I have written to you already in this exact conversation.

Re: Fingers crossed

@Loyal Commenter

"Can't find any benefits to brexit?"

Obviously been sleeping since we left.

Re: OK.

@James 51

"These chickens would probably end up in frozen dinners and and other places clear labeling won't be required so those who bleat about choice, we won't have the option to know."

I am all for labelling it, but to cry because people would have choice and you dont like that seems a selfish and daft argument. This stuff is considered safe to consume by the authorities deemed responsible for safety so the fear isnt about that. So accidents are unlikely to be noticed if you pick up one from the US unintentionally.

If you want to discuss that labels are a good thing then cool, I am all for that. But crying that people shouldnt be given choice because the difference may not be required to be labelled at the moment is just whining for nothing.

Re: OK.

@James 51

"I did make that post and I mentioned animal welfare twice and didn't mention wash once:"

Thank god you realise!!! Now put 2 and 2 together! You said that in response to my comment- https://forums.theregister.com/forum/all/2022/01/31/brexit_freedom_bill/#c_4407098

That comment states clearly there was plenty FUD about consuming chlorine washed chicken. So you clearly moved the goal posts by changing the discussion from the FUD to what you consider it to be 'really about'.

Now we established that the subsequent comments look a bit redundant dont they as you keep trying to redefine the discussion away from the FUD being discussed.

Re: OK.

@James 51

"And once again you're pretending it's all about the wash"

And once again you are pretending the FUD wasnt all about the wash. You are lying. You are beyond incorrect now you are actively pretending.

"I have never moved the goal posts, you're carrying over discussions you've had with other people into this one."

Erm... did you not post this one?- https://forums.theregister.com/forum/all/2022/01/31/brexit_freedom_bill/#c_4407143

Its your username. And in it you reorient the discussion from the FUD over the wash, which was real and about the wash, to animal welfare. I have tried to be accommodating and discuss that too with you while pointing out that you are wrong about the FUD because I had to explain this too people and link them to the European Food Standards webpage explaining it was safe because they didnt understand. The FUD was real. No matter how in denial you are.

"And for what is hopefully the final time, if the standards were acceptable in the EU then they would being produced and sold here already."

And I have been polite enough to entertain this line of discussion with you. Where its the politicians not the food safety authorities who made that decision. The protectionist block politicians.

"They are not and I hope they never will be."

I think it would be a good idea to. I would propose labelling them but freedom of choice and driving down the costs of living is a benefit to people. This is a debate about first world food from first world countries.

Re: OK.

@Loyal Commenter

"If competition as regulation worked, we wouldn't need regulations."

If the world (or even a country) could be just regulated by some politicians we would have socialist utopias run by those glorious authoritarians. Amazing how the alternative doesnt work at all.

"If you think we don't need regulations"

Dont recall saying that.

"Unregulated "free market" competition leads only to a race to the bottom with the most unscrupulous taking all."

Oddly enough the race to the bottom is what has brought us such wonders that we have, while the greed of the controlling few has kept many countries down and out.

Re: OK.

@James 51

"The US has to chlorine wash chicked because of the conditions the chickens are kept in"

Ok which is where you were wrong. Jellied Eel mentioned the FUD around the chlorine wash and you used the 'fail' icon while talking about animal welfare. So you ignored all the FUD around the chlorine wash to change the subject to the moved goalposts.

So you are right why the chlorine wash is used but seem to have missed the dumb FUD that was spread about the complaint against the chlorine wash. Hopefully you might get it this time, hopefully.

"It's really about all the steps preceeding it that require the wash to be used and the EU authorities do not think this meat is good enough to eat or it would have been in our supermarkets before brexit."

The food is deemed good enough to eat by the US and European food agencies. The politicians in the protectionist block of the EU reject first world standards for food because of protectionism. When you say EU authorities you mean EU politicians which is not really an authority on food safety.

Re: OK.

@James 51

"You do realise that by ignoring my point on animal welfare, you're reinforcing it?"

I didnt ignore it. I pointed out very correctly that remainers cries against chlorinated chicken was their lack of knowledge that chlorine didnt make it dangerous and that salad is chlorine washed. You claim that its whataboutary being completely wrong since it was the remainers crying about it because it was chlorine washed. I responded and corrected many remainers on this forum about it. There was no misunderstanding. It was their concern. Then the goalposts shifted.

"The whole point is that it isn't deemed acceptable by the EU, that's why lowering our animal welfare standards to allow it's sale in the UK wasn't an issue before."

Ok, which brings the question of why its an issue now? I clearly addressed this-

"Which is to say that first world food deemed safe by both European and US authorities is not good enough for people to eat. Yet I wonder how many people making this complaint feel the poor in this country need help?"

Re: OK.

@James 51

"That's because that's not what it's really about, the chlorine wash is the whataboutery argument that gets deployed in the hopes of distracting people from the real issue of animal welfare standards or lack their of."

That failure of understanding 'what its really about' is due to remainers who wet their pants about consuming chlorine washed chicken. I know this because if you go far enough back through my post history I had to provide links to show these terrified people that chlorine washed chicken was safe.

Only after facts beat out the FUD did the goal posts move to animal welfare. Which is to say that first world food deemed safe by both European and US authorities is not good enough for people to eat. Yet I wonder how many people making this complaint feel the poor in this country need help?

Re: Having choice isnt a bad thing.

@sabroni

"May I offer you a kick in the nuts or smack in the chops? What, it's a choice isn't it?"

So based on your comment the current offer is crap. That would be the higher than food quality protectionist restrictions from our time in the EU. Is that the kick in the nuts or smack in the chops?

Re: OK.

@Trubbs

"Having a baseline as good wholesome quality protects that part of society who will be inevitably forced to consume the lowered baseline standard food."

That sounds a good goal but what why would part of society be forced to consume the lower baseline of food? Is it because they have limited financial means and so the food budget matters a lot? And if so it would surely be equally bad to enforce a higher baseline of food based on protectionism of uncompetitive suppliers?

"Actually you raise an excellent point about parts of society not having a choice due to quite possibly no fault of their own"

Such as enforcing standards based on protecting an industry over food quality?

Re: OK.

@AC

"As long as choice is real"

Well said

"Do not ever think that big, business wouldn't shaft you by taking away that choice"

Which is where competition as good regulation comes in. But for now our problem is big government taking away choice which needs to be rolled back.

Re: OK.

@idiot taxpayer here again

"However, I did not vote to be able to buy and eat "Frankenstein" food."

Yes you did. To be able to and to be forced are very different. Having choice isnt a bad thing.

Re: The UK is failing

@Dave 15

"We have people that design chips the world uses then we outsource making them. How totally stupid."

Why? Can you imagine trying to make these things here with huge costs for energy, labour, regs, etc. Makes sense to design them here but manufacturing is probably better done elsewhere where its cheaper

Re: .....but in the "sunny uplands" this sort of c**k up never happens, does it?

@Triggerfish

"So they were allowed to opt out then? How does this reconcile with zero demonstration?"

It seems you are missing a huge part of the discussion. Read the thread and you will understand the vast difference between the discussion and those 2 selective questions.

Re: Bored by Brexit?

@AC

"And the UK Covid debt will have to be paid starting in April by the UK citizens only"

Who else do you think would pay it? Just as most other wealthy countries will have to pay their debts they racked up. As my comments point out brexit stopped these debts going up even further to service the EU. Your welcome

Re: .....but in the "sunny uplands" this sort of c**k up never happens, does it?

@Norman Nescio

"I am pointing out the bald fact that participation in the initial procurement programme, and its successors was, and is, optional for individual member states."

In theory with zero demonstration in practice.

"Hungary's opting-out demonstrates this, and demonstrates that the ability to not participate was not a benefit of Brexit."

Hungary didnt opt out of the initial phase. They complained the EU was slow then opted out.

It takes incredible fantasy to believe that the UK wouldnt have joined if we remained. The idea that the UK would go alone is the UK supremacist belief that the UK gov is better than the member countries and EU govs. By not remaining it was almost unthinkable for our gov to have participated.

Also had the UK remained but opted out the EU would have stolen vaccine from the UK. Go back and read my comment on this.

"In addition, Germany negotiated bilaterally with Russia with the aim of obtaining 30 million doses of the Sputnik vaccine even while participating in the EU procurement programme."

They also broke the agreement they had with the EU. Remember its all about solidatiry:

There have been widespread media reports that Germany may have been in breach of EU agreements in holding bilateral talks and a commission spokesman told reporters that all 27 member states, including Germany, had made a “political commitment” to avoid “parallel negotiations” with the same pharmaceutical companies to secure COVID-19 vaccines. - https://www.theparliamentmagazine.eu/news/article/european-commission-denies-germany-breaking-ranks-on-covid19-vaccines-buying-strategy

"So we have evidence (a) that participation in the EU procurement programme was optional and (b) joining the programme did not prevent negotiating bilaterally."

a: technically optional in word but not action. There is no reason to believe the UK is so much better run than every member country of the EU and would have rejected pressure to show solidarity.

a.1: the EU's actions in the real world reject any notion they would be honourable enough to allow the UK to keep the orders should the unlikely event of the UK remaining and not joining joint procurement.

b) If your Germany and at the point where EU member countries were pointing at the success of the US, UK and Israel. The EU's failure being so politically untenable by the members that they ordered from elsewhere either from the east or with companies the EU were already negotiating with (breaking the agreement).

"Brexit in and of itself did not deliver the ability to act independently of the rest of the EU/EEA in this regard."

So can I please get an explanation which nobody has yet been able to deliver. The UK supremacist view that the UK is so much better run that we would have broke ranks under pressure from the EU and remainers in the UK when members who already had a plan dropped them to join the EU's plan? That until brexit the UK was known more for its gold plating of EU instructions. Theory is all well and good but based in fact and reality why do you believe the UK is so much better run?

"I have provided links to back up my statements, you have not"

Erm, I did provide a link in my response, and not just to my previous comment which I have repeated countless times in my post history and its still never been answered. What parts of reality do you disagree with and I will try to find you a link. All that I said was public knowledge and doesnt tend to be argued against as it was so public everyone is pretty much aware.

"You are trying to move the goalposts."

And

"In any reply, you need to provide evidence that the Joint Procurement Agreement covering the procurement of vaccines was not optional, and the UK would, as an EU member, have been legally obliged to participate."

You just moved the goalposts come back:

My first post in this reply thread- https://forums.theregister.com/forum/all/2022/01/28/horizons_response/#c_4404857

Pointing out that a benefit of brexit was the vaccination procurement.

My comment on this thread that you responded to leading to this conversation- https://forums.theregister.com/forum/all/2022/01/28/horizons_response/#c_4404939

I clearly state the UK supremacist view which I disagree with. You are moving the goal posts by claiming the technicality of the action being optional. What you dont do is answer why the UK is so much better than it wasnt due to brexit that we didnt join the joint procurement.

Re: Bored by Brexit?

@Malcolm Weir

"there was always going to be a huge bill for getting divorced, which money could have better been used to fund the NHS..."

You seem confused. Thats the bill for being in the EU. Thats the money spent in our name as members of the EU and the amount to be paid by the UK at some point. In leaving the EU the argument was to settle the debt before leaving (makes sense) and before May got in the way of the negotiations you may remember negotiations not giving them so much money as we had already bought assets which the EU would be keeping.

Remaining on the other hand guaranteed that bill to increase, but also there is now the covid bailout fund which allows the EU to sign debt in member countries names instead of countries contributing it. At first declared as an emergency measure but then MEP's started talking about using it to fund the EU's spending habit.

We stopped the bill from rising so your welcome

Re: Bored by Brexit?

@Malcolm Weir

"When the EU starts penalizing the UK for breaking the protocol"

I thought remainers were all for following the agreements in place. Often its the GFA spouted as reason for the UK to be trapped in the EU, but if the protocol broke the rules by not getting the required permission from the very people it affects then surely we would want those rules followed?

Re: .....but in the "sunny uplands" this sort of c**k up never happens, does it?

@Malcolm Weir

"Dumb. No-one can assert that a UK still in the EU would not have prevented the "royal screw up"."

That will take some exceptional mental gymnastics. Based on everything we know where the EU got their contracts wrong, didnt sign until much later than we did, was unprepared nor capable of delivery and resulted in blaming the very companies manufacturing the vaccine and stealing + threats of stealing it from other countries how do you believe that would have been better with the UK remaining?

Re: .....but in the "sunny uplands" this sort of c**k up never happens, does it?

@Lars

"Member states like the UK and the rest had the right to order for themselves too. I think you know that very well by now."

Which is the UK supremacist view that seems to shut you guys up as none of you making this claim seem able to answer-

https://forums.theregister.com/forum/all/2022/01/28/horizons_response/#c_4404939

And if you think the UK is so much better run than every member country and the EU gov then why would we remain?

Re: .....but in the "sunny uplands" this sort of c**k up never happens, does it?

@Citizen of Nowhere

"You are Boris Johnson’s speech writer and I claim my £5 :-)"

Yet again your response doesnt even attempt to address the huge flaws in your comments that I pointed out. That your best response is to try and attack my character demonstrates how little you could add to the discussion. Come back when you have some answers.

Re: .....but in the "sunny uplands" this sort of c**k up never happens, does it?

@Norman Nescio

"I may as well reply here.

All EU members could opt out of the vaccine deals. And indeed, one did: Hungary."

Sorry but I have debunked this too many times now- https://forums.theregister.com/forum/all/2022/01/28/horizons_response/#c_4404939

Hungary- https://www.reuters.com/business/healthcare-pharmaceuticals/hungary-has-opted-out-new-vaccine-deal-with-pfizer-2021-05-20/

So Hungary opted out of the new deal but not the initial. After the slow rollout Hungary went and bought from Russia and China (seem to remember the EU wasnt happy about this). Didnt take long for various members to break ranks and order their own due to the EU failure.

The attempts to defend the EU's procurement failure seem to centre on the hypothetical members could opt out (UK supremacist view) or that some EU countries caught up (by placing their own orders independently). Neither stand due to the facts.

Re: .....but in the "sunny uplands" this sort of c**k up never happens, does it?

@Malcolm Weir

"No-one "stole" anything"

Yikes:

https://www.politico.eu/article/australia-coronavirus-vaccines-eu-astrazeneca/

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-56486733

So blocking shipments to Australia and their fall out with the UK, which if you remember is due to the EU getting their contract wrong while the UK got it right (was taken to court).

"All that happened was that delivery timing was adjusted, which happens every day of the week in every industry."

Wow that is desperate. But no, taking the contractually assigned doses because the EU politicians got their contract wrong isnt just an 'adjustment'.

Re: .....but in the "sunny uplands" this sort of c**k up never happens, does it?

@werdsmith

"I would be embarassed too."

As you should be. Read the comment you responded to. Almost like you turned up without anything to contribute.

Re: .....but in the "sunny uplands" this sort of c**k up never happens, does it?

@Lars

"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BydJFxtDnEY"

Not following how any of that is relevant but then I did stop listening to the moan part way. I dont care if you want to complain about our gov, I do too.

"And deaths per 100K is not much to boast about."

Agreed. So we should have done as Sweden did? Could have been worse, there are much worse countries out there and some in the EU! What does that have to do with the price of fish?

"https://www.washingtonpost.com/graphics/2020/world/mapping-spread-new-coronavirus/?itid=hp_pandemic"

Want to add some context to the link?

Re: Bored by Brexit?

@Doctor Syntax

Good news for you, it seems the breaking of the rules may be addressed soon-

https://capx.co/will-the-government-finally-face-down-the-eu-over-northern-ireland/

Possibly not as pro-EU people may wish though.

Re: .....but in the "sunny uplands" this sort of c**k up never happens, does it?

@Citizen of Nowhere

"If you say so, not seeing much evidence."

Yet again I point out serious flaws and errors in your 'interpretation' and you offer back nothing.

"Just repeating the same story over and over, as of repetition will make believable"

Maybe you should address your mistakes. They are glaringly bad

Re: .....but in the "sunny uplands" this sort of c**k up never happens, does it?

@Citizen of Nowhere

"All I’m pointing out is that your jingoistic interpretation of events contradicts itself"

You were denying reality. The reality that has been observed and was on public display. Nothing in your comment actually responds to the serious deficits I pointed out in your 'interpretation' (mental gymnastics)

Re: .....but in the "sunny uplands" this sort of c**k up never happens, does it?

@batfink

"Ah there you are again with the false assertion that the vaccine rollout had anything to do with Brexit."

Erm... you think thats a false assertion? your really gonna have to explain that one.

"Reminder: it happened while we were still in the EU. The Uk used its right to do its own thing as allowed under the EU regs."

Ahh the UK supremacist view. Read- https://forums.theregister.com/forum/all/2022/01/28/horizons_response/#c_4404939

Your either lying, severely misinformed or delusional. That you think thats a deficit on my part isnt my problem

Re: .....but in the "sunny uplands" this sort of c**k up never happens, does it?

@DJO

"So an advantage for about a month and a disadvantage for several years is a positive result?"

Thats plain bull. Continued advantage and your claiming disadvantage. You seem seriously biased in your exaggerated view of disadvantage and understatement of advantage. But still you wanted an example of an advantage, you do admit an advantage as much as you try to talk it down, so I expect you now wont be claiming not to know of any advantages?

"The overall death rate per million in the UK is far higher - you think that is an advantage?"

Than what? Its lower than some EU countries. Each country made their own decisions in reaction to the pandemic not the EU, but I assume by your statement you think we should have done the Sweden model which worked better than ours?

"We spent about 10 times as much for a worse result - you think that is an advantage?"

Where is the worse result? Thats an amusing claim when you even accepted there was while trying to downplay it. Again you seem happy with more death to save money, your choice. The EU and member countries seemed to disagree though.

"Far far too soon, totally for political reasons, there is NO medical evidence to suggest opening up now is a good idea - I'll guarantee the infection rate will soar in the next month or so."

No medical evidence? Your nuts. Its endemic instead of pandemic, the UK immunity is high enough that infection != hospitalisation nor death so economically there is every reason to open up and medically no reason not to.

"But this has little to do with Brexit more the staggering incompetence of the current Tory party "leadership", the same "leadership" that gave us Brexit just to placate a few back benchers."

I agree it has little to do with brexit nor the EU as each country makes their own choices. As I point out above removing your argument against the advantage.

Re: .....but in the "sunny uplands" this sort of c**k up never happens, does it?

@Citizen of Nowhere

"So, the UK could not have have gone it alone within the EU and if they had tried the EU would have stolen their vaccine orders"

Which is demonstrated by the EU publicly and directly threatening and attempting to (with actual accusations of it happening) which did result in the UK even negotiating giving some of the production for the EU to keep.

Unless your trying to claim the EU didnt steal any vaccine for export nor that they were raiding facilities and issuing threats?

"at the same time the other nation states within the EU did create their own supply lines"

And you are wrong. Not at the same time. The EU procurement broke down after the UK was successful and delivering to our own population. After the success of the UK and failure of the EU (public statements again) member countries went their own way.

Your mental gymnastics to defend the EU aint going well

Re: .....but in the "sunny uplands" this sort of c**k up never happens, does it?

@Citizen of Nowhere

"Believing that spending more money to arrive at roughly the same end result"

But we didnt end up at the same result. The end result was the UK got vaccine and the EU didnt. It ended up that because brexit Britain had vaccine that EU members dissented and had to play catch up. Where the UK competently ordered and received and then delivered vaccine the EU stole, accused and made a complete spectacle of themselves resulting in companies refusing to sell to them only direct to members.

"while having amongst the highest deaths per 100,000 in Western Europe"

Amongst the highest but below some EU countries. Since each country applied its own rules and of course has counted in different and interesting ways its hard to see how that would be any better under the EU (but certainly worse). However if you want to approach it that way then maybe the UK should have done the same as Sweden, who did better than even more EU countries?-

https://www.statista.com/statistics/1111779/coronavirus-death-rate-europe-by-country/

Since the EU would certainly have delayed vaccination and the EU relied on taking some of the production ment for the UK we can guarantee that people would have died through lack of vaccination had we remained.

"There is, indeed, the kind of thinking which produced Brexit in the first place."

Its called thinking. Scary that you would try to justify killing more people just to be part of the club.

Re: .....but in the "sunny uplands" this sort of c**k up never happens, does it?

@Disgusted Of Tunbridge Wells

I get the feeling they mistake Europe for the EU borders.

Re: .....but in the "sunny uplands" this sort of c**k up never happens, does it?

@DJO

I take from your comment you now agree an unequivocal advantage of brexit which you recognise with 'We did have a short lead for a little'. So now your another commenter who can stop claiming there are no benefits or you have no idea of any benefits etc.

"Wait until you see the bill for that!"

So kill em all because they aint worth saving? AZ vaccine produced at cost but yes the UK ordered vaccine (the EU still hadnt signed for the orders 3 months later!).

"HMG ordered everything from everybody without setting any penalties for non-delivery or worrying about the cost."

Yes. Thats because there was a pandemic and people wanted vaccine. The vaccines being developed faster than ever before for an unknown virus. The EU approach was to order limited amounts (rejecting more!) because the French dictated theirs must be bought in the quantity of others (the French one didnt work while others already had promising candidates).

"Consequently we spent over 10 times as much per delivered dose."

And got some. While the EU flailed and cried (and they did so publicly) the UK and US (and Israel!!) actually got vaccine. The EU embarrassed itself in court for not understanding its own contracts and failed to order vaccine as it was ment to. Even stepping in to tell Dublin they could not cross the border to actually get vaccinated in the UK where we had vaccine!!!

"We did have a short lead for a little while but within a month that narrow advantage had been completely squandered away."

How? The UK got vaccinated and is opening back up. Not much narrow about our advantage nor was it a short lead.

"but overall we would have been a lot better off being part of the EU scheme."

I am not sure how you can try to justify this. More deaths, having to then order our own vaccines but later (EU members followed our lead) and have whatever we order stolen by the EU. You must be trippin.

Re: .....but in the "sunny uplands" this sort of c**k up never happens, does it?

@Bogle

Not sure what you think you are getting at there. If your suggestion is that the EU caught up then yes, and thats because they were behind they had to catch up. Also they caught up because member countries broke their agreement with the EU and ordered vaccine themselves copying the UK after the EU screwup.

Re: .....but in the "sunny uplands" this sort of c**k up never happens, does it?

@Empire of the Pussycat

"Cherry-picking the good bits"

This being a proven and demonstrated benefit of not being in the EU hence meeting the criteria. Another one being we are not part of the covid bailout fund where the EU takes a loan out against the member countries to distribute as it feels fit.

"The UK would have been free to go it alone on vaccines within the EU."

This nonsense again. Here we go-

To believe the UK would have gone alone on vaccines is to believe the UK is better run than every member countries government. Countries such as Germany who already made plans abandoned them to join the joint procurement. The pressure was applied to get an 'all for one' approach and you must be a UK supremacist to think the UK wouldnt.

But lets run with your hypothetical UK supremacist suggestion that we remain but go it alone on vaccine. The EU demonstrably stole and intended to steal vaccine to be exported because the EU screwed up procurement. As a result there is zero doubt the UK supply would be stolen and redistributed at EU whim because of *insert reasons* (incompetence of the EU procurement).

Re: .....but in the "sunny uplands" this sort of c**k up never happens, does it?

@DJO

"OK tell me one single way in which the UK and the majority of UK citizens have benefited from Brexit - just one unequivocal advantage."

UK ordered vaccines and the EU royally screwed it up. Based on the information about vaccines protecting people from severe illness and death that would be the people of the UK having the option of protection while in the EU people didnt and so would have died.

@Disgusted Of Tunbridge Wells

Looks like you had some effect. 40 mins and only 8 comments

Re: So, let's see...

@fredesmite2

Yikes that comment.

"The Pornstar Fornicator"

Worthless insults.

"with a Euro Trash Hooker wife"

Worthless insults.

"certainly didn't stop his tramp daughter"

Worthless insults.

"from another wife he cheated on"

Worthless insults.

"from making her sweat-shop shoes in Jina"

And whats wrong with this? and what does it have to do with my comment?

I get you might not like the guy but if you just want to write insults about him you dont need to reply to a comment. I am sure you could get a lot of supportive responses if you did start a new post thread.