Posts by codejunky

Re: Scientific collaborations like sausages

@Roland6

"UKIP didn't have an MP in Westminster and do you seriously think the UK Government would have stepped aside to allow a bunch of unelected, self appointed nutters (*)negotiate on their behalf?"

Nope and I didnt even say that so what have you been smoking? UKIP were invited to a meeting and the EU refused to discuss anything while they were in the room. The EU twits had no right to demand so and it was even brought up at the EU (thats how I know about it, I watched the twits laughing as the issue was brought up. Little children they are). Hopefully I can find the video again from years ago because it is worth a watch but facts matter little if you keep smoking the wacky stuff

Re: Scientific collaborations like sausages

@Adair

"CJ, you make my case for me. ;-)"

Ok I am reasonably sure you are trolling now. But just in case, how is you not reading nor understanding my comment making your case?

Re: Scientific collaborations like sausages

@Adair

"What the hell have UKIP got to do with anything"

Read my comment you may have a hope of understanding. I cant make it any clearer.

"They were never even in the room, let alone serious and responsible players."

You are so close to reading my comment. Its really close.

Re: The Horizon replacement money ...

@AC

"The aforementioned few token useful idiot Lexiteers never made it meaningfully cross-party."

Amusingly Corbyn pre-leadership was anti-EU and during leadership showed little leadership. He is a marxist who's second in command was a commie. How right wing were they? I suppose from the perspective of Kim Jong maybe. And the brexit vote only carried beyond 50% due to labour (and left) voters also voting leave.

"Brexit is- and always was- driven by those on the Eurosceptic right of the Tory party (i.e. the right of the right) and the likes of UKIP dominated by defectors from the latter. Cameron only called the Brexit vote as a woefully (and contemptibly) misjudged sop to the latter he hoped would shut them up once they'd lost as expected."

Yup. That and UKIP gained a serious support from both tory and labour voters who saw little difference between the parties and none of them acting on their offer of a say over membership. Blair was elected on a manifesto of giving a referendum over EU diktat (never happened of course). Cameron with his cast iron guarantee built like a chocolate teapot.

This is the tribal stupidity of things I like = left, things I dont like = right. The answer being nope.

Re: Democracy

@Adair

"There you go, making your opponent's case for them."

Eh? Elongated Muskrat made a bogus claim and I burnt it down for being drivel.

"Once we wipe away the extremist froth from both sides of the 'Brexit' argument what solid points are we left with."

Exactly. We remove the bull from both sides (and there is bull from both sides). So when someone spouts garbage like that it should be corrected or people reading it might think there is merit to the comment.

"In reality, not very much on the 'exit' side, especially given the totally shambolic way it was actually done and continues to be mishandled"

Eh? Are you in the UK? Yes it was shambolic, and yes it is still mishandled and yet the benefits of brexit were meant to materialise over years and yet we already saw immediate benefits. The FUD of doom didnt happen and instead we still came out of it pretty good even with the mess of the negotiations.

"while on the 'remain' side actually quite a lot of well founded and now substantive realities"

Where? Few of the claims actually happened and didnt overly matter. It took excessive gnashing of teeth and the government actually threatening the UK population to make a case for remain! Leave didnt have that. Leave didnt have the power of government to work around the rules and abuse the tax payer/voter. The reality was a disappointment to remain that the world didnt end

Re: Scientific collaborations like sausages

@Adair

"So what was the 'bad faith' of the EU over NI?"

The EU negotiators were called out for insisting UKIP were not allowed in the room for negotiations. They had no right to dictate such. They stalled negotiations until NI was dealt with against the very rules of the negotiations that no one part can hold up the rest. In the spirit of the NI agreement the UK can send to NI with little friction which the EU refuse to abide.

And this is with help from remainers to get the best deal they could. God help them if a brexiter gets in charge, the EU will panic.

Re: Science vs Morons

@NXM

"Your loyalty to the morons does you credit, but you might consider treatment for your hard-of-thinking problem."

You misread my comment. I am not supporting the 'experts' who seem to think the gov should deliver what the EU refuses. Its not in the UK's power to give. Try thinking about it again.

"I made the post above because I personally think we need the worst possible Brexit outcome so morons are shown the results of their approach"

You mean to remain? That would be the worst brexit outcome. Unfortunately NI was screwed by remain but it seems the gov is finally waking up to not being under the thumb... a bit slowly but getting there.

"Then, and only then, can we remember the damage they've done is all (including themselves) and charge them with treason."

I think that would be appropriate for the scum who without being elected to government took it upon themselves to hold meetings with the EU to undermine brexit.

Re: Democracy

@Elongated Muskrat

"As it turns out, pretty much every problem that "Project Fear" pointed out would happen, has happened."

End of western civilisation, recession if we vote leave... erm when we invoke art50... erm in the future, punishment budget, all the banks leaving (was funny watching the EU nutters spit feathers), house price crash, world war 3, a hard border in Ireland, EU nationals to be sent home, Scottish independence (right now she is suffering push back on PC non-sense), lower wages (risen), stock market crash.

Nope, lots of FUD.

Re: The Horizon replacement money ...

@Elongated Muskrat

"I mean, you do tend to use a lot of the very-right-wing talking points that The Heil* likes to plaster on its front pages, so one would be forgiven for thinking that you read it. I guess you get your dose of hate from GB News and watching Youtube videos of Nigel Farage instead?"

Actually no. The only time I see GB News is when someone links to it (not necessarily on here) and the only time I see a video with Farage is the occasional one on Fortune and Freedom (a site I also take with a pinch of salt). I get my news predominantly from 63 news sites and blogs leaning left and right and also from various countries (that provide an English version). You?

"As for fact checking, presumably you only do this for things that you don't agree with, because an awful lot of your posts are woefully lacking in an attachment to factual reality."

I try to cross check news against different news outlets as the bias (whatever it might be, not just political) can cause information to be missed. Such at the stupidity of certain sources crying that our brexit negotiators had nothing in front of them in the picture while the EU negotiators did. Counterbalanced by sources pointing out they didnt need to have anything in front of them, it wasnt for them to do so.

Your perception of reality against my posts being amusing after some of our previous exchanges but do go on.

Re: “My Lifetime as a Lettuce”. The memoirs of Liz Truss

@gandalfcn

You might notice I didnt say it was. I was providing a link for Potemkine!. But go on keep screaming.

Re: Democracy

@Bruce Ordway

"Wouldn't it have been better to let elected officials decide whether something this complex was a good idea?"

It was this disregard for the people living in the country by its elected officials that caused a lot of these problems. Remember the contempt Brown had for that one lady voicing her concerns? It wasnt her opinion that caused a stir, it was the bland appeasement he gave to her face and the contempt he held for her as he thought he was out of earshot.

EU membership isnt such a complex idea and if it is too complicated for people to decide of they would wish their country to be part of it with a little research then it is likely intentionally opaque. Should the people have the right to elect its government? Should the people have a say if the government try to sell out the country to another government? Should the people have any say at all or maybe its just too complicated and the officials can do away with the election.

Re: Scientific collaborations like sausages

@Adair

"It's sovereignty, innit?"

Yes. The EU can huff and puff and scweem untiw its bwu in da face but its not our problem. They can hold their breath until they pass out and its not our issue. They can stamp their feet all they like but we dont have to comply.

"The EU are playing hardball over Horizon in the light us demonstrating bad faith over Northern Ireland. Quelle surprise."

The EU are already acting in bad faith over NI which was the issue in the first place. An agreement reached in bad faith (EU side) and the EU continue to cry. I just wish we would get a gov who told them to grow up, put the border back where it actually is and let the bed wetters over there sort themselves out.

"It's called 'real politik'. Once upon a time we were quite good at it, but the self-absorbed entitled lightweights currently presuming to 'rule the country', while still having all the gear, clearly have no idea."

I dont disagree. Electing light weights who just appease the EU (Blair worked really hard as PM to get his EU jobs) didnt go well.

"Whether they are even doing that with any competence is arguable."

Whenever anyone tries to convince me of government competence I have to look at them sideways. Yet some people think another layer of government improves that!

Re: The Horizon replacement money ...

@Elongated Muskrat

"There's plenty of people in the middle (I'd consider myself a little to the left of centre, but pretty much there). To the likes of CJ, though, I'm probably some terrible Marxist-Leninist that wants to repossess his house and turn it into a tractor factory, or something."

I have no idea. Generally I just see you as a remainer (fairly sure thats on point). Based on your self-confidence (cant find a better word for now) of your remain beliefs I consider you staunch remainer, not quite consider you rabid remainer yet ;)

"There are only a handful of the real hard right-wingers"

One amusement over brexit is the bone headed stupidity some people insist on. Brexit wasnt right wing and neither was remain. It was a cross party issue and voter wise it was the reds that voted leave too. It wasnt some right wing effort, it was pro or anti EU membership.

Re: The Horizon replacement money ...

@Elongated Muskrat

"In other news, those whose best argument is to insinuate that their debating partners are reading the "wrong" papers, may be lacking something in their arguments."

Thank you. The number of times I get accused of reading the mail or whatever by lacking fools is ridiculous. Also I am glad I didnt insinuate people were 'reading' the wrong papers, just that a certain... political and ideological leaning has increasingly shown up recently in reg comments. A similar shift in writers for the reg seems to have occurred too.

"Seriously, yes, the output of the Guardian is left-of-centre. I'd advise people to get their news from more than one source"

While breaking some good stories (Snowden) it is generally a funny pages especially the more opinionated the article gets. They even had (dunno if they still do) Polly Toynbee writing for them which provided fodder for an entire website and I think even a book called Factchecking Pollyanna. And thankfully they dont have Jessica Valenti any more, especially in current MeToo climate. I occasionally look at the guardian but I then have to look at the fact checking before I can take anything away from it.

Re: “My Lifetime as a Lettuce”. The memoirs of Liz Truss

@Potemkine!

"Please show me where in the withdrawal agreement EU said that UK will be included in the 'Horizon' program whatsoever?"

Maybe this will help-

https://ukandeu.ac.uk/horizon-scanning-is-there-any-hope-for-uk-membership-of-horizon-europe/

Its the post brexit trade and cooperation agreement.

Re: ...what the EU wants in a completely separate area

@redpola

"Somehow, with a majority brexiter government and a brexiter cabinet"

Was it? When?

"a deal negotiated by brexiters"

Was it? When?

"a situation that brexiters were wholly in control of"

When the hell was that?

"You realise how daft that sounds, right?"

Those claims do sound very daft. Cameron was remain, May was remain, Boris inherited May's deal and picked the brexit side to be elected PM. Hell even the official brexit campaign was chosen by remain and wasnt the very people who got the brexit vote to happen.

Re: ...what the EU wants in a completely separate area

@AC

"How is having a toddler tantrum going to help?"

It doesnt which is why the EU was so bad at negotiating. The negotiators had the conflicting instructions of punish the UK and enable trade so as not to kill the eurozone again. Failure to negotiate in good faith (as the EU did) means in adulting world that the contract stands for as long as we are willing to entertain it but isnt strictly valid. As the EU cant abide by it anyway (again toddler tantrum) we are well within our rights.

"I had always thought Boris et al were dedicated hard Brexiteers..."

I am sure some people may think that but he would sit on any side to get the votes. He was a last hope at best. But he inherited Mays deal which was intentionally BINO.

"Before you get started on May etc., if Boris had been properly advised he could have withdrawn the UK's leave notice and resubmitted it shortly after and thus restarted then whole process with a clean slate."

Why would we do that? Go through all those legal challenges again from traitors and scum trying to undermine the UK and sell us out in the negotiations. And the 2 year negotiation already dragged on for longer.

Re: Science vs Morons

@LybsterRoy

"I have only one problem with your post - it uses the word "expert" (well technically experts) and does not give a definition. Unfortunately in our modern times the definition seems to have shifted from someone who knows (nearly) everything about a topic to who's got the biggest gob!"

As I understand it the world followed the experts over covid. And around the world enacted very different policies. Guess 'experts' dont all agree either

Re: Science vs Morons

@AC

"Do you mean the 'scientists' who were reassured by proponents that Brexit would not undercut their ability to continue with their advanced research projects?"

You are right! The EU agreed that we would continue to be a part of horizon. Damn those lying bastards.

Re: Scientific collaborations like sausages

@Dr Paul Taylor

"This brexiter "go it alone" or "we'll go and play with someone else's ball" treats scientific collaborations as if they were sausages, entirely interchangeable,"

Except it isnt brexiter 'go it alone'. Its EU misbehaving and messing about so why should we sit on our hands and wait for them to budge (when they make clear its all about punishing the UK and getting their own way in a tantrum)? This isnt brexiter go it alone, this is the UK getting on while the EU continues to suck its thumb

Re: Ahem,

@Steve Button

"Honestly, the prospect of ANY of them being elected scares the shit out of me, as they will all fuck it up in new and different ways."

That the current government should be voted out next election should be a thought of joy. Even amongst tory voters who wonder where their party has gone. But unfortunately I dont like the options available to us currently, I dont see one I would vote for.

Re: The Horizon replacement money ...

@LogicGate

"I am afraid you will find that codejunky, ellied jeel and phil osophical have been around for a while :)"

I do wonder how many Guardian leaning accounts have been created in recent years though.

Re: Science vs Morons

@BebopWeBop

"It's the morons who insist that the UK can 'have its cake and eat it' who are the problems here."

I assume you mean the 'scientists' complaining we should have access to Horizon when its not in our power to deliver (the EU are intentionally holding out on this, not the UK).

Re: ...what the EU wants in a completely separate area

@Schultz

"There is no separate area, the EU agreement is a package deal and you can't pick the parts you like and renegotiate the rest. The EU tried to make this clear from the very beginning, but British politicians were a bit preoccupied with internal politicking and never seemed to get the message."

This being a fantastic reason for the UK to unilaterally rip up the agreement as it was not negotiated in good faith. The EU actively violated the negotiation rules which did not allow for holding up all negotiations while negotiating a part of it. The EU used NI intentionally and due to remainers negotiating on our side we got the NI protocol which the EU cant even stick to.

@LogicGate

Even the negotiator did an about face when it came to him campaigning for the French presidency even after being lauded for negotiating on the EU's behalf. The EU has given so much justification to rip up the agreement I am glad to see the UK finally giving up on them.

Re: Science vs Morons

@NXM

"You can't have "experts" telling you things, can you? We've all had enough of them."

Unfortunately morons insist we need to come to an agreement over Horizon while the EU refuses to.

@Potemkine!

"If those businesses move to EU or US, they will have an easier access to a bigger market. It makes sense to move."

Shouldnt think so as chips are a global business. They would get access to more tax payer money from the EU or US. One of the amusing situations with fabs is the UK could buy chips paid for by the US and EU (as we all have with Asia).

Re: Department of

@Binraider

"The paradox of energy storage is that when it's of low value, you don't want to create it. At times when the value becomes apparent the price is then too high to do anything about it. The solution to the lack of long term planning by a government motivated only by PR; and private companies governed by greed is, and can only be central planning ran in an ethical and efficient manner."

Said Stalin. But more seriously, the central planning (still politicians) was to phase out fossil fuels by X date making gas storage a loss maker. Begging private sector to give their money to be lost doesnt invoke excitement. Ethical central planning would be to ditch green madness and ensure we had power generation first. It wouldnt involve insisting a working technology to be disbanded on a particular year with no usable working technology available to replace it. And if that technology was any good the central planners wouldnt be needed as private would move to it as it is better.

When central planning is the problem the solution is probably not central planning.

Re: Department of

@Boris the Cockroach

"And I promise not to mention that the self same government was warned 12 years ago that our power stations were coming to their end of lives in 12 yrs or so and did FUCK ALL about it... oops I did mention it.."

To be fair they were in coalition at the time of this. As per the egg on Nick Cleggs face for making the comment about not being worth doing as it will take 12 years to come online

Re: You're all missing the point here!

@NewModelArmy

"To me, small government means less regulation. This is not the right approach as less regulation in the city, energy, water etc., has caused no end of problems."

Small government means less government in size, interference and regulation. Regulation is required but it has to be easy to follow and applicable. Over-regulation is damaging too and becomes increasingly difficult to enforce.

"Whether the numbers are large or small, as long as the policies implemented and the strategy protects the people, whilst encouraging business, then that is all that matters."

That is the balance we should strive for except we are dealing with politicians. Politicians strive to get elected, not to protect the people and encourage business. A politician who has such desire to improve the country finds the problem of being in the world of politics.

"The Tories have no vision, except for some reason, referencing the past glories as if they can magic them into existence for today and tomorrow."

To be fair I cant see vision in any of the party leaders. I would argue Truss had vision and was potentially trying to do what she thought right for the country (regardless of peoples opinions of what she envisioned). I dont think there is any vision in the parties because they are all trying to occupy the same political ground with little to really differentiate their opinions.

Re: You're all missing the point here!

@NewModelArmy

"My interpretation of that, is that is has to do more with what is the intent of less government in the specific scenario being discussed."

Government is forever growing and will justify its existence even if its to the detriment of the country. And people will support its existence. Try to find parts of the bloated beast that is the gov that people will accept being removed without arguing.

"If you look at energy security and competition, Ofgem failed, yet less government in that area would have meant a greater mess."

Energy insecurity has been government policy for 2 decades. People have voted based on cheap and free energy by erecting monuments to sky gods instead of actually generating any. Even now some idiot will try and defend unreliables.

"I think people want governments to be capable, and do the right thing for the country, not force ideology upon people, which is detrimental to the country."

That would be a small government staying out of the way. Otherwise its an oxymoron. No government can have fingers in all the pies and not force ideology. The 'right' thing is highly subjective and the more capable it is the more it has to enforce. Look at energy policy for example.

"Maybe these extra departments will work for the country. Yet, our isolation due to brexit is not helping at all."

And this falls into the more government side of the problem. As I have never had answered- how does adding more crap government on top of crap government improve things?

Or as per our little conversation- how does adding another layer of government reduce government?

Re: You're all missing the point here!

@WonkoTheSane

And yet I dare you to try and make the argument for smaller government and less government interference. People lose their minds

Re: Late stage capitalism

@Roland6

"Well I know two wrongs don’t make a right, but he did also break the USSR’s economy…"

The interesting observation after being that the USSR didnt really grow in productivity while capitalism and free markets did considerably. Germany providing an interesting contrast.

Re: @AC

@Roland6

"And wrong at the same time!"

Nope, right. As per the very comment.

"Remember one of the complaints was how inflexible the was, the rules around state subsidy supposedly preventing Westminster investing in the UK…"

Which would be correct. While I think the gov should invest less in the UK as the gov isnt very good at investment, but the truth stands.

"This shows that correctly presenting a case can result in “the EU” being flexible"

Really? The EU gets in a flap as the US decides to pump subsidies to being fab factories to the US and the EU in its usual green eyes and wishing to be 'one of the big boys' decides to copy. Not forethought or strategy but the usual flailing. And dont assume my opinion is reserved for the EU, this is why I have been consistent that the UK shouldnt be doing something so stupid either. The EU rules are highly flexible or rigid depending who or why it applies. Another reason it is best to be out.

Re: @AC

@Roland6

"Depends on what you mean by “apocalypse”."

The end of western civilisation. Or even the guaranteed brexit recession rearranged twice.

"So to my mind the UK has lost out as these businesses are now generating revenues in Ireland/EU in direct competition to the UK."

Without trying to put too fine a point on it 'to my mind' seems right. And not just you but a lot of the hanging on remainers. Some of whom really seem to be upset their apocalypse didnt happen.

Re: @AC

@gandalfcn

"like the same ones who told us the EU didn't allow such subsidies."

Which after only mere seconds of effort you will find the EU does not allow unless a carved out exception the EU 'approves' of. As this was a recent carve out it would seem the brexiters were right-

https://www.reuters.com/technology/eu-lays-out-billion-euro-plan-boost-chip-production-2022-02-08/

Re: @AC

@gandalfcn

"Big corporations walked away from the UK when we walked away from the EU, nothing to do with taxation. 19% is not particularly onerous, even if they paid it which they don't."

Some did, some invested more. Still waiting for your desired apocalypse?

Re: @AC

@elsergiovolador

"Maybe if we didn't try tax everyone (except the rich and big corporations) to death, we would have our own companies building the fabs."

It is plausible but we also have more regulations which has a similar effect. I am not sure we would be accepting of China levels of pollution because as a country we have advanced beyond that point and are wealthy enough not to accept it. But our tax burden doesnt help in this country.

@AC

"How about investing their own money?"

Why? This isnt really an Intel (or others) desire to build there. Intel wants to build a fab, its Germany that wants it there. The US is playing the same game. And yet some people moaned that the UK would be 'left out' of this wonderful opportunity to throw money at intel and others for a fab.

Re: You know what we should do?

@IGotOut

"Form a trade alliance with our European neighbours, where goods can move freely without red tape, import and export duties, lengthy custom delays and the movement of labour to where it's needed.

I just don't get why our government hasn't thought of this."

Not sure the EU will go for this. They are a bit upset we left their political union and would probably insist we had to do something stupid like rejoin to get such trade.

Re: Brexit

@redpawn

"should have fixed this problem by now. Anyone care to check if it's happened already?"

Looks like it might have. The EU will be spending money on fabs (which we would be paying into) while out of the EU we can buy the output and make something high value.