* Posts by Kiwi

4368 publicly visible posts • joined 26 Sep 2011

Allowlist, not whitelist. Blocklist, not blacklist. Goodbye, wtf. Microsoft scans Chromium code, lops off offensive words

Kiwi

Outside a Charles Dickens novel, I have never seen the word "niggardly" be used except to insult a black person with plausible deniability and the additional bonus to call anyone complaining stupid. In other words, I have never seen it used today except by a racist.

IIRC the last person I recall using it was President Obama during one of his speeches on a monetary issue (or money around an issue). Are you saying he was a racist trying to insult black people? (some brief searching failed to bring up the incident, but I stand by my recollection that it was used by Obama)

I learned the word maybe 20 years ago from a Maori politician, who was also using it in the correct context as a financial term (probably Winston Peters but it was a long time back).

If people would learn what words mean before speaking, they would not show their lack of knowledge by getting upset at a "racist" word that is a) not racist at all and b) being used as the best word in the correct context.

Kiwi
Pint

Re: The "right thing" is not to pander to the whims of the PC scum

You were arguing rather effectively, until you unnecessarily added the abusive "scum" to the descriptive "PC".

Believe me, given the harm these cretins do, I've been holding back - just barely - limiting my terminology in reference to them.

I wouldn't dare say what I would love to do to some of them... I do have a reputation as a kind, sane and somewhat wise person to keep around these parts [cough]....

Kiwi
Pint

Re: WTH, WTF?

How could "Wow, That's Fantastic" be a bad thing??

Are you, perchance, the writer (or the muse for the writer) of the Joe Swanson character on Family Guy? :)

Kiwi
Facepalm

Re: Programming and computers as a casualty

We cannot tolerate discriminatory terminology at all.

You should look into the automotive industry (and engineering as well) - things like <grease> nipple, nut, bolt, screw, shaft - all supposed to go. You know how some cars have an extra wheel with a (hopefully) properly inflated tyre attached in case of punctures? Well you cannot call that the "spare tyre" as that could be considered insulting to us fatties.

Don't forget knobs of course...

Gas - potentially offensive/mocking to IBS sufferers.

Lights - obvious reference to skin colour and thus white elitism.

I'll leave the good people of El Reg to come up with many more - perhaps from real life perhaps imagined (all above Gas in my post has been experienced or read (in the press) by me)

icon - still need a "despairing for humanity" one - closes we have :(

Kiwi
WTF?

What matters is what effect the words have today.

That is not the case. The case it that people are choosing to be offended by these things, when there clearly is no intent at offence and you have to jump through a whole multiverse-worth of intellectual hoops to even begin to try and claim it's actually offensive.

It's like when people get offended at the word "Niggardly" which, of course, has nothing to do whatsoever with the word "Nigger" and it's historical abusive connotations. Or those who will get offended because I used "Nigger" even though clearly not in any context that could rightly be claimed to be offensive.

Citing etymology at this point is really calculated to arouse suspicions that you're looking for reasons not to do the right thing.

The "right thing" is not to pander to the whims of the PC scum who are constantly trying to drive wedges in between people. These people have nothing better to do than to try and sew discord by claiming that once perfectly acceptable and descriptive language is now a bad thing.

The sooner we are rid of the PC-types the sooner we can all get back to working to stress-free good lives for all. While PC remains, this world must be a place of division, stress and resentment - because as soon as a word become acceptable to describe a group of people the foul PC scum make it out to be an unforgivable insult to use said word to describe said group.

The PC nonsense is wrecking lives and needs to stop. It has gone on far to long.

Tesla Autopilot crash driver may have been eating a bagel at the time, was lucky not to get schmeared on road

Kiwi

Re: IQ test

Not sure that would work. It seems that buying a Tesla has a serious impact on the IQ of the buyer.

Beat me to it. If they're buying a Tesla they've already failed the IQ test.

This guy said his eyes were on the road and he wasn't sleeping, meaning that he saw the car going straight for the fire truck and did nothing about it.

So his IQ is at stupid moron level now, but it could have been perfectly acceptable before purchase since he was capable of making the money required for said purchase.

Not necessarily. I've seen a bit of YT footage of people testing the "auto pilot" and in urban environments the things have been seen to want to suddenly do strange things.

We generally have a reaction time of 1-2 seconds. Ever been in a car when the driver has an incident, or following one? It takes a moment to realise what's going on, especially when you expect them to safely go past the parked truck not veer into it.

I don't mean to defend the guy, but I can see that if he was in a state where he wasn't fully focused or was expecting the car to continue on a steady path, well, at highway speeds you cover a LOT of ground in a second. Of course, if he'd been in control - well I believe there are reports of Tesla's taking some form of 'evasive action' when not needed and swerving into other things, even when not in AP mode and being directly controlled by the driver. ICBW of course.

Kiwi

Re: Naming

ooh, ooh, what about a naming competition?

Perhaps something that plays a bit of Springsteen? Only needs a couple of seconds of "Born to Run" - the words "Suicide machines" looped over and over when the thing is engaged.

Few seconds of that looping and they'd be paying Tesla for it to crash and burn. Oh wait, what am I saying? They already paid through the nose with a high chance of that happening!

Maybe take my earlier "suicide hotline" statement and combine it with an old kids toy - "Suicide Hotwheels"? Certainly after the batteries go up the wheels will soon be rather toasty..

(Reminds me of the 'capacitance gel' scene in "Demolition Man")

Kiwi
Pint

Here's a pilot discussing what they actually do between climb out and final approach:

Thanks for that.

So.. He talks at the 14+ minute mark of crew reading newspapers and even sleeping in the cockpit (45 minutes at a time, but one asleep one (hopefully) awake).

Also a little before this he talks of a crew flying across the USA who missed their descent by over 30 minutes because both were on their laptops.. Oops.

So.. Pilots don't use AP to let them do other stuff hmm? (ok, he mentions in the laptop case that he believes both lost their licenses as using personal electronic devices is a no-no...)

Does fill a few gaps in my knowledge (at least for the brief time it can stay in knowledge when it's midnight :) )

Much thanks for the link!

Kiwi

Then surely the passengers of a plane wouldn't have problems with pilot and co-pilot leaving the cockpit and getting drunk partying with the flight attendants while the AP is doing it's thing....

There have been quite a lot of movies showing just this sort of thing. Doesn't matter that it's not real, it's what the public see. As they are generally not privy to (and seldom interested in) what happens in the cockpit, they have no indicator to show otherwise.

Hence the common belief that aside from take off and landing (the two most dangerous bits of flight after all) there really is nothing for the crew to do other than a cursory glance at things - or responding to an alarm/radio message should something come up.

I do know that you can cause a plane to turn by setting the AP on and then adjusting a tiny little knob smaller than the volume control on most stereos to set the bearing. If the plane can follow that, then surely it's only a small jump in software to make it be able to follow a number of waypoints? I mean the exceptionally realistic (according to the marketing blurb) "Janes WWII Fighers" showed that 1940s fighter planes could do just that - follow a course of waypoints without the pilot having to do anything. If they could do it back then, why not now? (No, I know that's not realistic - at least I'm pretty sure it's not - the point is the game is supposed to be realistic, I know real planes can be turned by a small knob and a bit of computer power, I also know real planes were having a problem with too much automation (according to other commentards), so really I have no reason to believe (other than other commentards posts) that planes cannot fully fly themselves - as I said earlier I've even sat in the cockpit with the crew chatting with me and seeming to not be paying any attention to the controls or instruments)

Kiwi

Re: Because most Tesla drivers are not pilots.

and needing to check certain things and do things in a certain order and be mere centimetres away from the other person while doing it, the consequences of which can cause death or serious injury very easily.

Years back, as part of the training work I'd do, I'd take a new-coming driver out on my bike with me (with intercom).

I'd pick an oncoming car, ask the student what was wrong with it, and get a little closer to the centre line. Eventually they'd twig that a) they couldn't tell if there was something wrong with the car or not and b) they were very close, the only thing separating us being a little strip of paint and the skill of each driver.

I was very selective in the cars I picked for this, and I often shift to the opposite side of the lane when I don't like the looks of certain cars, or weave in an "anti SMIDSY manner"[*] when I see ones intending to cross my path who may not have noticed me.

[*] SMIDSY - "Sorry mate, I didn't see you". The weaving makes a motorcyclist a lot more noticeable, both by helping the other driver judge distance and speed as well as introducing a little "WTF????" factor that tends to make them hesitant to cross paths with the approaching loon.

Kiwi
FAIL

Re: Because most Tesla drivers are not pilots.

Then he would also think that an automobile does exactely what it says: Moving on its own. Bu tthat's not the case, is it.

30 years ago I was a kid working on various farms.

On all of them we had tractors that had a hand-operated throttle. Said throttle could be set to a low speed, with the tractor in a low gear, and you could let it toddle off on it's own while you walked beside it doing things (eg feeding out hay to the animals). That's how we used to do it commonly, only of us out with several tons of machine keeping an eye for direction while feeding stuff. If we needed to adjust, well it was moving slower than walking pace.

I also helped move a mob of cattle through the Taranaki back country. Mitsubishi L200 ute. Had a throttle control much like a choke knob on older cars, but this was again set to keep the engine at a very high 'idle' so it could be put into gear and move at a walking pace without needing driver interaction - ie we had it keeping pace with us but we only interacted with it when we were needing to go around a corner or straighten it up some (it'd find it's own centre on the hump of the road easily enough - single lane roads and in the country, well this sort of thing is normal so no worries with other road users)

So yes, there have been 'auto mobiles' that can move under their own without driver interaction. In fact I cannot think of any car that, on a flat in low gear, wouldn't be able to move without someone in the wheel especially if the idle was high or you'd sat a toolbox on the gas pedal. They are quite capable of moving by themselves - look at all the footage of people who've left automatic's idling and they've slipped into reverse and started doing backwards circles in a parking lot.

Kiwi
Pint

Re: Did he get a ticket?

it took some time to process it but I could give an accurate (in terms of details) record of the events

Was that immediately afterwards or some time later, when things had calmed some?

Many years back there was a uni lecturer giving a lecture on some subject. One of his students jumped up, yelled "You're wrong", pulled a gun and fired several times at the teacher who of course collapsed, then ran out the room. The teacher stood up and asked the students to write down exactly what happened. The details, even moments after, varied quite a bit [details as best I can remember them, maybe some 30 years ago that I read this, at least 20 years back I'm sure]

Other studies have found our memories quite unreliable, no matter how we convince ourselves otherwise :)

Kiwi
FAIL

Why would he think that autopilot is named wronlgy?

Because 'auto" means "self" and "pilot" means "drive", so the name means the vehicle drives itself.

It comes from a plane. Planes had autopilots for decades.

And for decades movies have been showing planes on AP that fully fly themselves without any existing pilot whatsoever.

Many "realistic" [cough[ flight sims (the closest any non-pilot will ever get to "really flying") also do stuff fully automatically. Most of us aren't pilots, aren't even clued up on the most basic stuff about flight, thus have no idea what happens in the cockpit. Mostly we have movies and some RWE that tells us that the planes do most of the flying themselves. RWE - remember when kids were allowed into the cockpits on planes in-flight? I do. I remember chatting with the crew who were mostly facing me, with maybe only a glance and an instrument panel. Admittedly this was for a few minutes on a multi-hour-over-water flight, but my impression was I was there more to alleviate the boredom than out of any other sense - they appeared to be doing nothing active. Probably the co-pilot was keeping an active watch while the captain addressed me and vice-versa, but the appearance was no active monitoring or control.

and they all require the pilot to be attentive.

From posts on El Reg I've learned that many systems were automated in planes for a while, but then taken back to being controlled by the crew. This was reportedly because the crew were loosing focus and in an emergency it took too long to regain focus.

You wouldn't board a plane with autopilot and no pilot.

I would, without issue. But then, I'd expect that the system had undergone rigorous testing and to be properly up to the task (unexpected glitches aside which have killed many even with highly experienced pilots at the controls).

The guy is right. The general public's perception of AP is that it does all the work between take-off and landing, and they could probably even do that if we let them. Pilots and those who've had an interest in flight know AP in planes still means little more than straight and level. Public with no interest in how flying works only have movies, adverts and newspapers to go on, and they say "AP = Fully capable of self control".

Kiwi

Re: Did he get a ticket?

And he really must not have paying attention as usually firetrucks with emergency lights on are quite visible from a distance which means he didn't notice other cars moving over to the other lane that is if there were other cars in that lane. I smell a porkie.

Not defending the tesla dolt.

I've been in a couple of crashes (mostly NOT as driver, just FTR), and known others who've been through them. Accurate recollection of events is rather difficult even for the best people. People go through quite a shock - physical and emotional - in accidents, and recalling what you were doing or what was where at the moment things became a serious problem really is very hard.

Especially when you plough into a parked vehicle while looking for that bit of pie you just dropped (nope, never done this, but you should be able to find footage on YT of someone doing just that)

Kiwi
Devil

Wondering...

Did it see the lights and think they were road-side markers, and it was heading off the road so tried to correct?

Does seem to be a bit of these things doing odd swerves.

There's a video on YT of some dolt driivng through parts of the UK with one in it's "autopilot" mode. Clearly not requiring the operator to have his hands on anything through most of this. Attempts at sudden lane changes, wrong lanes, all sorts of 'weird' and unpredictable that could be dangerous for other road users.

Do Tesla's come with the number of the suicide hotline stamped on them somewhere? Seems it should be a requirement.

Icon coz looks like a car and these things are (for now) rather evil.

YouTube's radicalizing Alt-right trolls and Facebook's recruiting new language boffins

Kiwi

If I have no interest in that subject, I can't tell YT to recommend me something else.

On Android, and I assume on a logged-in PC, there's a mechanism (via a form of 'hamburger menu' IIRC) to mark a video as "not interested".

I've found when I strayed into dash-cam territory that it can be effective in getting that genre out of the recommendations fairly quickly.

(Logging in to YT or other google 'services' is NOT something I recommend one does lightly - tor on top of 3 layers of vpn, using a computer that's already atop a nice pile of thermite is close to safe)

Kiwi
Pint

Re: Radicalization

I've seen a lot of stuff under similar situations, although for me it's because I watch a lot of so-called Christian and many on the far-right confusedly identify themselves as 'christian'. Doesn't make me any more likely to believe or follow their stuff, does give me better knowledge and understanding of what is out there. "Know your enemy" 'n all that.

The way to defeat ignorant and despicable ideology is through exposing and ridiculing it, not hiding it away and saying "this content is too dangerous for you to see".

Oh for a billion upvotes and an endless supply of your favourite beverages! When you dig around inside the walls of your house or car you find decay that needs to be dealt with. When you paint over it, the decay is still there, things are still rotten, but you can do nothing about it until the house collapses.

Likewise with extreme viewpoints. Bringing them into the light, mocking them and showing the holder the error of their ways and the reality of the matter often (probably usually) effectively brings about lasting change and improvements for everyone. Hiding them away just lets them fester until it's time for the sirens to shatter our peace again.

Kiwi
Boffin

Re: "ANY thoughtless radical loons are a pointless scourge, of course."

left wingers want to silence, by violence if needed, anyone that is not an extreme leftist,

Well, I'm obviously quite left and have no desires to silence you.

My posting history would show I'm quite the fan of free speech even when I might find it deeply offensive.

You could perhaps try looking around a bit more at the subject matter, perhaps get to know some of us and what we stand for?

(OK, I'm right-leaning left-of-centre centrist... Or left-wing fundamentalist conservative.. Or whatever... )

Today in tortured tech analogies: Mozilla lets Firefox loose in the hen house, and by hen house, we mean the tracking cookie jar, er...

Kiwi
Boffin

Re: "builds it into the core product"

WTF. It's already there!

Difference is, by default it's set to "always" in the past. Not it's set to "Never" (I guess. Dropped FF when they dropped support for my preferred addons, now use Waterfox and sometimes Pale Moon (the latter had some odd issues with a few sites I was a regular at)

Divert the power to the shields. 'I'm givin' her all she's got, Captain!'

Kiwi
Pint

Still need a second aircon as a backup. Manglement knows about that though.

There's a BOFH tutorial available for that problem.

(Sorry for the off-site link, El Reg's archive link points to a 404 :( )

Kiwi

Re: The plant was supposed to be protected by the levees that failed,

The Kaikoura quake caused uplift of up to 10m, apparently the noise was horrendous. How do you plan for infrastructure which won't break when the land is uplifted 10m under it?

I remember the Kaikoura quake well, later the civil defence sirens going off during the wee hours of the morning, the carloads of people heading away from the low lying areas and parking on my lawn (by invite to make as much room on the street). Hearing civil decense sirens used 'in anger' is not something I wish to repeat!

I missed the earthquake light (being in a brightly lit house at the time), but there's great footage of it at http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GZ4JJSrQXqI_2vs done by a local scientist. I was living on the hills in the background of this footage, and we lost power for a good 12 hours or more.

No buildings fell, but a lot were badly damaged and cleanup/replacement still continues. Oddly, the many old state houses the National government were giving away to their property developer mates for lack of use had taken out of circulation due to being sub-code and "quake risk" seemed to come through unscathed, while many much newer "up to/exceeding code" buildings got a date with the wrecking ball - we're still a bit nervous after the 2nd Christchurch quake and the losses that caused :(

How do you plan for infrastructure which won't break when the land is uplifted 10m under it?

If you look at https://www.chchquake.co.nz/ you'll see a photo of a rather kinky bit of railway track (IIRC Edgecumbe but ICBW) - imagine how few buildings could survive that sort of an event to their foundations? (that's actually by a railway bridge - lucky no passenger trains were approaching that during the night!)

There's footage on YT of the Kaikoura quake that shows a rift running along some hills - somehow a small dam survived (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U3H8wlzXGYE - see also the linked "farm track" video near the end of that one!)

(I grew up in South Taranaki, sorta between Hawera and Patea - the impending eruption of Mt Egmont was the stuff of nightmares for some of us, but so far hasn't happened in my lifetime - but getting shaken by quakes, one less than 100m below the surface near the Kapuni refinery [shudder].... We build stuff in convenient yet stupid places sometimes!)

Kiwi
Pint

Re: Trusty UPS's...

Some people here seem to be a lot more idealistic than those of us who have "been there, done that" a few too many times.

I've often found the best cure for idealism is putting them in a RW environment where they have 6 days to complete a 5.9 day task, and tell them they have to twice do full outage tests as well as full backup/recovery tests in that time - hint that if the system works they'll lose a couple of hours, if it fails they'll at best lose a couple of days. Up to them when to test it, and hint it may not be noticed if one of the tests is missed.

The sort of time pressure that can be faced when dealing with business-critical systems and taking things off-line to test works wonders on idealist fantasies!

(Ok, was up till 4am banging my head against someone's IT problem (Christmas is paid for!), not at my best example making atm! :) Hope the concept that the 1-2 hours work I suggests 6 months ago would've saved them a packet if they'd implemented it then instead of giving me an urgent phone call during my relax time)

Kiwi
Pint

Re: Another Place, Another Time

I recall back in the '80s in Central Otago NZ there was an inversion with constant overcast and the mercury fell and kept falling. The gritters and graders had to have electric heaters (and other not so safe methods) applied to the diesel tanks to get them to go.

I've seen cars and trucks in the US (IIRC in Minnesnowda) and Canada that had electrical fittings to plug in oil heaters. Seen the same on large ships that run on heavier grades of fuel oil.

And I've played with a few vintage diesel engines that had a blow torch placed under a bulb to pre-heat the fuel so it'd ignite. Often something akin to a kero heater was used in the olden days :)

Pre-heating fuel in trucks in cold areas is still pretty common. In summer diesel is not that likely to ignite if you dropped a match into a pool of it. In an Otago winter a blow torch will merely mar the surface a little :) (Or so I'm told)

Kiwi

Re: The biodiesel had 'gone-off' ...

No idea why you got a downvote for such a question!

As AP Veening said, most tanks have some level of ventilation. I know many Californian vehicles have filter systems on the vents so no fuel vapour can escape while still letting the tank breathe when the temperature changes. I don't know how good these filters are at stopping water vapour though.

As a tank heats the pressure rises, and some vapour is forced out. As it cools, air is drawn back in (otherwise the tank would collapse) and the air contains water vapour which hydrocarbon seems very efficient at trapping. The moisture is locked in so doesn't escape during the next heating/cooling cycle, and seems to replace the fuel as it goes.

Kiwi

Re: The biodiesel had 'gone-off' ...

Correct me if I'm wrong... But both Petrol & Diesel can go sour if left in a tank long enough. I've have small petrol motors have issues with the petrol evaporating out of the carbs and "glazing" the venturi

Correct. I've seen cars and bikes sit with petrol for 5 or 6 years and run a little rough but start OK. I've seen some left with a 1/2 tank of gas over winter and require considerable work to clean them out and get them running. Best is to drain all the fuel, but the more you have in the tank when you park up the worse the problem can be :)

Kiwi
Pint

Re: The biodiesel had 'gone-off' ...

90% of "recycling" is greenwash, not saving the planet and it tends to happen at the cost of things which can actually make a difference - like using less paper in the first place.

Yay! I love meeting people with smarts!

That's most of my problem with "green" right there. A lot of things being done are actually more harmful than if things were left alone.

Cut your use. Recycle/reuse what makes sense, try to limit using what can't be recycled (or what creates more waste in the process). Plant a couple of trees somewhere. Only get rid of hardware when it's efficient to do so (that new computer that saves 1 watt/year in power over your old one took thousands of watts to make, so replacing your old one while it still works is a waste - same for cars!). Insulate your home - if the 'energy cos' of the insulation is less than the energy savings.

So much "green" stuff does so much harm to the environment. Being a greenie is fine, but grow a brain, do your research, and make sure what you want to do will actually help not harm our planet!

GIMP open source image editor forked to fix 'problematic' name

Kiwi
Pint

Re: Eh?

The Mongo was introduced in 1925. It's a unit of currency, specifically 1/100th of a Mongolian tögrög.

So many words which sound (and are even spelt) the same, yet have different colloquial meanings.

I think "Mongo" is used in the movie "There's something about Mary" in a derogatory sense against people with some form of severe intellectual handicap, but it may be a similar word (thankfully a great many years since I saw that movie).

Kiwi

Re: DVLA doesn't agree

https://vehicleenquiry.service.gov.uk/ Suggests you might be full of it.

Post evidence or retract.

I too would love to see that :)

However, looking at the 'talk' page on the Wikipedia article on 'Paki', I found the following quote :

"...Pakistan" means "Land of the Pure", so when you call someone a Paki, you are calling them pure..."

Further down, it's mentioned that in the US and elsewhere it's not considered offensive, but that it simply means "a person of Pakistani origins/heritage".

Below that we see "I live in a city in England where the ethnic (and perceived) Pakistani community (actually the majority are from pakistani-controlled Jammu and Kashmir which is not an integral part of Pakistan and is in fact de jure an occupied part of India!) where we'd say I'm off to the paki shop (corner shop, convenience store) and this was not said in a derogatory way but in a matter of fact (I'm off to the pakistani-owned shop) kind of way."

So, at least some people in the UK do not consider it to be offensive. Of course, they're closer to you so you may wish to introduce them to some of that "prolonged violence" you were wishing on me.

Also see the comment "The liberal PC brigade is destroying the UK. You'd think calling a Pakistani a Paki was the worst crime in the world." Nah, not seeing that with your posts at all... :)

According to the BBC, " some young British Pakistanis are now trying to reclaim the word as a badge they are proud of."

I'm going to paraphrase a quote in that article, "As I was growing up in Bradford and Leeds[New Zealand] I'd be walking around and people would be going 'get that Pak[gay]' and there was Paki[gay] bashing. They were insulting, there is no other way of looking at this word."

Like the aforementioned young Paki's are doing in the UK with their term, gays have adopted a term that was used as abusive against us and [sometimes proudly] use it as a descriptive label for us. But I guess they're not allowed to re-claim a formerly OK term and make it OK again because in your view that would be wrong, and those UK Paki's should not be reclaiming such a word without your permission. Should those UK Pakistani's who wish to reclaim the term "Paki" also be subjected to 'prolonged violence" because you don't like the term?

BTW, "Paki" is also a Maori word meaning 'fine weather', so when I am calling a person "Paki" I am saying that they're from Pakistan, but I could also be saying that they're "pure" or "bright and sunny" (or "warm and sunny" or... You'd wish for 'prolonged violence' on someone who calls people "Pure" or "Bright"?

"Paki" is a respectable name over in these parts (although Korotangi Paki, the son of the Maori King, seems to be intent on changing that). Perhaps you need to do some research on what happens in the rest of the world before claiming someone is deserving of "prolonged violence" among other things. If you were worth it, I could be offended at the slurs against my own culture by your insistence that "Paki" (the sort of weather we had today - absolutely GORGEOUS Spring weather!) is racist. But your kind is not worth taking offence at. I hope you can grow up some and learn that what happens where you are isn't the same for the rest of us, but I won't hold out much hope.

Now I need some chocolate. Off to see the Paki's at their Paki shop.

Kiwi
Pint

Re: Ignorance?

Nope. Not being offended on behalf of someone else. Passing on the message it is offensive. But not for "offense", but that you will lose customers/users because of it.

Not likely really. Maybe they won't gain some, but anyone who uses it knows what it is, what the name is, and what the UI looks like, and enjoys using it anyway.

If I don't like chocolate, and you only sell chocolate flavour ice cream, you lose the customer.

Or you never get the customer. I'm a specialist in chocolate ice cream, I strive to make the best I can. I do a great job because I don't dilute my expertise with other stuff.

If I don't sell a product you like don't come to my store. Are you the sort of person who expects to get cheese'n'ham on rye at a hardware store?

A very bad analogy anyway, as I've worked in a couple of specialist shops and much prefer to buy from them - I'll get terrible meat at the supermarket, piss-poor fruit and veg, and mediocre deserts. The bakery however - their stuff has to come via divine inspiration! The worst butcher in the area does exquisite meat and even their cheapest sausages are far superior to the crap the supermarket serves, and the greengrocer? Fresh, sold by experts who can advise on all sorts of new cooking ideas - not the garbage that was fresh sometime last year that rots on the supermarket shelves.

(No, I don't have the time to shop around - but I make the time because life is way to short for supermarket swill)

GIMP could look to gain some users if they change their name/system/gui a little.

And they'll loose a hell of a lot more. Why should I have to re-learn my workflow because some people are just unable to understand the simplistic interface? Why should I have to re-learn the name because someone chooses to be offended by something that is not intended to be offensive?

It's not an offensive term, as a word or acronym. In whatever of the many definitions there are, it is not and never was offensive. But some people choose to be offended by the silliest little things, and the rest of us should have to suffer?

If you think "G.I.M.P" is offensive, I suggest you get out of your sheltered little world and travel a bit - see what things are like in other cultures, learn that words have many more than one meaning. As that terrible 80's (or 70's?) sitcom theme song said - "what might be right for you may not be right for some".

Kiwi
Trollface

And the majority opinion on GIMP is negative because

[citation needed]

Kiwi
Pint

Re: The very word "disabled" is an ableist term...

to my knowledge nobody is calling out that at its core the very word "disabled" is an 'ableist' term...

Some prefer the PC term 'differently abled'! Presumably those who do, also object to 'disabled'.

In response to a comment in this forum, I looked up what are now considered "abelist insults". Now that I am aware of these, I must take deep personal offence on behalf of some complete stranger as referring to someone as "differently abled' is an "abelist insult".

There's a lot of other stuff that the other day was considered the nicest and most correct way to refer to people with various disabilities that are now considered insults.

Kiwi

Not least of which the requirement to include "lbq" thought processes from a minority group on the rest of society as a whole.

I'M DEEPLY OFFENDED! HOW DARE YOU NOT USE THE FULL TERM!

Don't you know it's now "LBGTQICJDONACJODMCMPAEGRPEVOPIEANVOADJCIEANOEURIONVACJZRIECVIUFHGITUPWWAWSGZRUVBZCVNBFWAIOATKS"??

I agree - make software that is functional software. If I like it, I'll use it. If I don't like it, I don't use it (unless I have no other choice). If you didn't write it in a gay way - I won't care. I won't know, it won't make a difference to me. Forcing it to somehow "be gay friendly" may actually make the project worse than it could be, making it fit restrictions that it shouldn't need to fit. And what the author thinks might fit '"lbq" thought processes' will probably actually be something others of us find condescending, demeaning or in some other way offensive. There are a great many different styles of taste and thought in this world, what suits one annoys another.

Just write the damned software to the best of your abilities, and leave the '"lbq" thought processes' to those who have them!

(Making stuff accessible for those with a physical disability is another matter of course - where it is reasonable to do so - abseiling clubs probably don't really need wheelchair ramps)

Kiwi
Pint

Re: Eh?

The effect is that people are nervous/not candid with me in day-to-day life for fear of causing offence.

I have seen and heard this so often, especially from those in your position (or 'ethnic minorities', those of us who 'don't swing the right way' etc etc).

PC scumbags shove their noses in, try to impose their will on others, make people afraid to talk in any sort of open way with other people, and in the end make life much harder for those they're claiming to protect.

I've seen nurses driven away from caring for a patient when they were speaking quite candidly with the patient and the visitors took exception to the nurse using "offensive" terms. So the patient had to wait till the visitors were gone before certain needs could be met.

PC people are among the worst I've ever had the misfortune of dealing with.

May your life be filled with people who don't pull punches, who use whatever words work best, and may your situation be mitigated if not treated. Be met with people who challenge you to push yourself to work around your limitations and put them to shame!

Kiwi

Re: Ignorance?

That's fine for them but their ignorance (again, no aspersions!) doesn't change a thing.

The truly ignorant are those who choose to be offended on another's behalf, especially when it's over a colloquialism that has a different meaning in the context used, or where no offence was intended.

If I intend to offend you, your family or your friends (or culture), you yourself may be offended. If I do not intend to offend you, you have no right nor reason to be offended - even if it seems I intended to offend someone else. I get so sick of ignorant arrogant scum who think they have a right to be offended on other's behalf. Keep your self-righteous mitts OFF and get your nose out of my life. (not aimed at decoherence unless you fit the description :) )

Kiwi
Facepalm

Re: Eh?

WTF would you refer to a friend by where they come from?

So.. Becasue we're friends we're somehow not to speak of each other's heritage or birth place? You must be a real star at social gatherings!

And if someone else asks me where someone is from or about their heritage, I should say what.. Some random guy on the internet says I can't be his friend if I talk about where he's from?

Why shouldn't we discuss these things? Come on, lets see why you think friends should not talk about where they are from or how they wish others to refer to them/their heritage/sexuality etc when it comes up. Why shouldn't we show an interest in each other's history?

You are just making sh*t up to try to win an argument.

Ahem.. Pot to kettle : You're black. Over.

Kiwi
Pint

Re: You guys do know that ...

[0] Note to my fellow Yanks: That's an eraser, not a condom.

So... Your classmate was wanting to borrow a hitman?

:)

Kiwi

Re: Eh?

"so free speech MUST always means allowing anyone to risk being offensive."

The operative word there being "risk". But what RacerX said was "Free speech means I can insult anyone and any group I choose" which is a very different interpretation on what free speech is or is not.

Yes, we should be free to insult whoever we choose.

The problem I find most annoying is when people take insult/offence when it's not intended. When someone is making a well-reasoned argument/speech in support of a group, but some SJW or other PC-scumtype grabs all the attention (thus detracting from the intended speech and wasting the helpful resource) by getting offended that the speaker isn't up with this minute's trend.

"I think the community centre needs better access so disabled people can enjoy this resource. I have a plan I believe the community can get behind that will achieve this within a few months"

'HOW DARE THIS OFFENSIVE PERSON REFER TO PEOPLE AS "DISABLED"? DOESN'T HE KNOW THAT IS A BAD WORD! I NEED TO TAKE UP 3 WHOLE PAGES TO SHOW THE LEVEL OF HIS OFFENCE EVEN THOUGH THE OFFENCE APPLIES NEITHER TO ME NOT ANYONE ELSE I KNOW! HE NEEDS TO BE LOCKED UP AND WE MUST IGNORE EVERYTHING HE SAYS (no matter how otherwise good it is) AND PUT HIM AWAY WHERE HE CANNOT CAUSE ANY MORE HARM! RANT RANT RANT RANT RANT RANT RANT RANT!"

Hence my earlier comment that this PC crap does far more harm than good. I'm yet to be convinced that free-speech rights also give people the right to deliberately mis-interpret statements and then take offence at what they try to imagine was said, rather than the actual intent of the words. (Interestingly, Split Enz's "What's the matter with you" is playing as I write this :) )

Kiwi

Re: Euphemism treadmill

It is only right that we should be nice to each other, and not use abusive/derogatory language, but, unfortunately, what started off as a perfectly reasonable and decent idea gradually turned into a cottage industry for the "professionally offended".

I largely agree - but the problem really does come down to intention vs possible meanings. Take for example the posts between myself and "Sed Gawk" (apols if I got the spelling/name wrong) - one sees a term as a serious racist slur, the other sees it as a normal part of conversation - the experience of one is that it is an insult against those people, the experience of the other is those people use it as a term to identify themselves. (please don't anyone take my using "those people" as a racist thing in itself, it is not).

I could say to my partner "You could lose a little weight". It could be an insult or attempt to shame him, or it could be a serious bit of advice spoken from love and concern for his wellbeing. But I can gaurantee if someone else heard it, there's a high chance that someone else would choose to take offence on his behalf while he sees it for the caring comment it is intended to be.

I grew up with a friend who had a serious physical deformity in one of his legs. Then we all referred to him as "crippled", and he still does today. He knows none of us intend any offence, and it's the proper term for his basic condition - he was crippled and required crutches to walk at all. I also have known people who meet the definition of "retarded" who use the term correctly and expect others to do the same. If he does something he knows is bad and says "sometimes I'm such a retard" he doesn't expet people to be offended, the term is being used in it's correct form.

If I refer to someone (inc myself) as "black", "fag", "lame", "crippled", "suffering depression", "bonkers" etc I am intending an accurate description NOT an insult (at least most of the time). If I call someone a "stupid yank" then I am probably intending some form of insult or offence, if I call someone a "stupid idiot" then I am expressing my frustration at their actions/words and intending to show them how I believe they are portraying themselves.

I have dealt with a lot of stuff over my life from my own physical limitations (not as obvious as a limp or other physical disability, although I used to "run like a spastic" as I did have problems smoothly controlling my limbs at speed though I could still win 100m sprints) and through my sexuality, but above all this one of the things most offensive is when some complete stranger has a go at my partner because he called me a "fag" or something else they find offensive. We've accepted the language, we use it for each other in fun, who the hell are you to tell me how I should feel when someone I love uses a term I happily accept? (not directed at the posting AC!)

I agree - there are many terms that aren't intended to be offensive and are quite accurate. Constantly changing terms not only leads to much confusion, but can lead to a great deal of upset as well. Someone comes up to me and asks about someone I know, and I say "Paul? Yeah, he's gay", and someone else wants to physically assault me because "gay" is no longer an acceptable term, but I haven't yet learned that how I describe myself is no longer PC.

Anything can be used as an insult if it's intended to be an insult. Anything that is NOT intended to be an insult should never be taken as such, even if the current stupidity considers that it should be.

(One site I read last night even said that my nephew, who learned ASL because he knew kids with hearing issues, cannot be referred to someone who "knows ASL" as that is an insult against deaf people rather than accurately saying he is multilingual, much as the rest of my family (all of us have learned other languages though I could no longer hold a conversation in any of them through lack of use)

Kiwi

Re: Eh?

Please visit the U.K., take a stroll around Liverpool, Manchester, Brum, London.

So.. Your standard is based on a tiny area of your country. You'll use violence to impose your view of how Paki's should identify themselves? And you're stupid enough to think you're NOT being racist?

If a local shopkeeper or a good friend wants me to refer to them, their family and their heritage as "Paki" then I'll take their word over that of some violent racist thug on the other side of the world. ok? They are, after all, the ones who are from Pakistan, and they are the ones who wish that term to be used. Your racist view doesn't count.

Kiwi
Facepalm

Re: Is calling someone a Paki racist?

Why would you "encourage...prolonged violent retribution" for someone using a term a lot of Pakistani's don't find offensive/racist and themselves use to refer to their heritage?

The missing words there are critical "the expectation of prosecution", We as a nation decided that racist bullshit was bullshit. Prior to this, an entire social-economic grouping (note, not a racial grouping)

The missing though from your statements is "People from Pakistan use 'Paki' to identify themselves, publicly, and expect others to do the same, so I should not take it on myself to tell them how to live".

YOU are talking as if the Pakistani people are inferior, not capable of making their own choice of what term they wish to use as a shortened form of their name. YOU, not those of us trying to educate you about what it's like.

[Battle of cable street] So you're proud of a bunch of thugs going out to violently oppose others expressing their views, disgusting as those views might be? That's your claim to authority - someone in the past used violence to silence other's free speech? You must really love those who went out to the gay marches here in NZ back in the 80s, and made sure we knew just how hated we should be. You certainly are proud of having the same nature as those violently opposed to "gay rights".

The rest of your post is just more promoting violence against Pakistani's for using a term that describes their heritage, a term they themselves use proudly.

Kiwi

Re: Eh?

You using the phrase "Most Paki's" is polite company should earn you opprobrium.

In not so polite company, physical chastisement is the very least of what you should expect.

You've been told twice now, so you've no excuse, but, carry on with the butter wouldn't melt routine.

Interesting.. I'll take the word of the many Paki's I know over yours any day. There's a lot of them living here, the family who own the corner store down the road for a start will quickly say "We're Paki's, not Punjab's" (they do intend the latter as a racist comment).

Clearly, it's not only NZ Pakistani's who use "Paki" to ID themselves.

"Paki" means "Someone from Pakistan" all over the world. Just like "Kiwi" and "New Zealander" mean "someone from NZ" etc. To claim it is "racist" is quite wrong, especially when the people themselves use it as a term to identify their heritage.

You have, however, repeatedly threatened violence against me for using a term people I know wish to have used to identify their heritage. Not only are you yourself actually being quite racist (doubly so as 1) you credit them with being unable to speak up for themselves or unable to make their own choices about identity terms and 2) you have no idea about my culture and wish to impose your will on it), but you are also committing what is in many countries a criminal act. One could even claim you're inciting terrorist activities by saying it should be "prolonged violence" or "physical chastisement is the very least of what you should expect".

What do you think you would face if you were in NZ and saying these things? Under our current climate, to seen to be promoting racial terrorism (even if that wasn't your intent) and worse to be doing it based on a term those you claim it is against actually use themselves very happily?

Carry on with your own routine, but that won't make you any more right.

Kiwi

Re: Eh?

There are posters at my kid's school that say "Before you speak, THINK" and that acronym means you shouldn't say something unless it's "True, Helpful, Inspiring, Necessary, and Kind". I really wish more adults would consider this before they open their mouths.

IIRC that dates back to Scorates or Plato - "is it true, is it necessary, does it improve upon the silence" or something along those lines. Something I like and tend to try to live by (my posts here obviously speaking otherwise :) ).

But....

Just because you CAN say something, and even if it's true ("you're really fat") doesn't mean you should.

If more people spoke up to those with eating disorders, teaching them what true "self love" is, and how to make changes without making sacrifices, we wouldn't have these sorts of problems. But people remain silent, lest they offend the poor kid who is overweight and facing a heart attack and diabetes long before they finish school.

Some years back I was diagnosed with high cholesterol as well as being somewhat overweight. I made some minor changes to my diet (one of which was to switch from margarine-like gunk to actual butter, but limit the use, another was to introduce more fresh foods rather than pre-processed) and take up walking/cycling on a more regular basis (eventually swapping some of this for gardening). Both problems beaten by simply eating tastier and more enjoyable food, and getting off my arse and away from the screens - giving my brain a break, my eyes a break, and finding stuff much more enjoyable to do.

But no, we're supposed to believe that a 11yo at 170kg is just a kid "showing extreme self-love" and we should worship their morbid obesity, and praise the parents for being so kind as to send the kid into an early grave through a few years of suffering let the kid make their own stupidmodern-wise diet choices.

If you can change someone's life in a way that improves it, speak up!. Don't be cowed into silence by the SJW/PC scum. Speak in love, don't remain silent in fear.

Kiwi
Pint

Re: Eventually...

Some words are offensive and should be phased out from our languages.

NO!

The richer and wider a language is, the better and stronger it is.

If we take out stuff that is offensive, then other words will become the new "most offensive word' and thus will have to be phased out, but in the mean time we will be losing the meaning behind why the word was so offensive. Weaken (or remove) the word, you weaken the meaning. Weaken the meaning, you lose the history. Lose the history, the lesson is forgotten.

"The right-wing Germans of the 1930s-1940s felt bad about some other people, and had them sent away" doesn't have the same meaning as "The Nazi's and their supporters murdered some 6 million Jews including women and children." (I'd say more, but it's 1am after a long day, not so thinking well)

Agree with the rest of your post though.

Kiwi

Re: Can't we all agree "Gimp" is just a terrible name?

Can't we all agree "Gimp" is just a terrible name?

Nothing wrong with the name at all. It's an acronym that describes something decorative.

Kiwi
Coat

No idea where ableist comes from though.

It's a typo. Basically, an 1860's version of Craigslist. Someone swapped the L and E...

Kiwi
Joke

Re: A Boaty McBoatface moment

GNU Image Editor - GIE to rhyme with pie. Simples, innit?

Also rhymes with "guy", you sexist pig!

Kiwi
Pint

Re: "aping whatever the Windows equivalent looks like"

as someone mentioned earlier, just trying to work out how to close the program is a challenge!

Click on "File" then "Quit", same as with Firefox and several other programs :)

I just love your accent – please, have a new password

Kiwi

In Scotland only the beer is heavy.

And the rain.

What? WHAT????

Only a prissy little Englander would call that "heavy"! Over here (Kiwiland) it's a 'light drizzle' at most! Are you sure you're Scots?

Kiwi
Terminator

Re: heavy

... and perhaps the offence, when Sassenach prejudice is detected? Or indeed when ignorant forriners confuse you with the English?

I learned that the hard way once. A very Bulshie woman whom I accidentally called "English".

I think it took about a year before the casts came off.....

Icon coz closest we have to Darth Vader - I nearly ended up "more machine than man" by the time she'd finished teaching me that you do NOT call Scots "English".

Missing the "your topics" side bar?

Kiwi

Re: Missing the "your topics" side bar?

Ok, now sold on "nested thread" - but really would love the side bar back please? :)