Posts by James 51

Re: @ dan1980

The common market gives the EU the mass needed to wrestle with Chinese and US without getting squashed like a small, annoying insect.

Free movement of capital without free movement of people would be a nightmare for those trapped in the capital flight countries. People need to go were the jobs are. Imagine if everyone who lived north of the M25 wasn't allowed to move to or work within it.

I had a long angry response but decided to boil it down to a simple example.

Lets imagine you are a business man and earn £100 a year. You pay £10 a year into a club and get £5 a year back in direct benefits (we'll ignore indirect benefits at the moment as they are harder to measure). You decide that you'd rather not spend that £5 and decide to leave the club. Afterwards, members of the club who want to make sure that other members don't leave (and some are thinking about competing for the business you had sown up before) decide to take an economic hit and not provide goods and services on the same terms as before which costs you £5 a year. Other people outside of the club begin to wonder at your judgement and increase the price of goods and services they provide because they are pricing in risk or decide to take advantage of your new, reduced circumstances and that costs you another £5 a year. Now, although you aren't paying the fee you have £90, not the £100 you thought you would have. If you pay for the £5 in benefits that you were getting before, you have £85. See? Simples.

Re: James 51

Following that logic PM May has not been elected and therefore should not trigger Article 50.

I know it's pedantic but as you forgot the joke icon, road tax was scrapped seventy nine years ago. Vehicle excise duty is treated as general taxation and there is not a direct link between V.E.D. and spending on roads or other infrastructure.

Re: Simple is best

For that value of 'just' people would be dying for decades if not centuries to come in England as well as Ireland. Here's one reason why:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ulster_Covenant#The_Covenant_.28for_men.29

Here's the most relevant bit:

'And in the event of such a Parliament being forced upon us, we further solemnly and mutually pledge ourselves to refuse to recognise its authority. In sure confidence that God will defend the right, we hereto subscribe our names.'

Or as my history teacher put it, 'We'll kill the king's soldiers and members of the King's government to remain loyal to the King.' Force a reunited effort (in contradiction of the Good Friday Agreement, various treaties between the UK and ROI and in violation of EU law) and it will be loyalist terrorism that will be boosting the construction industry.

Parts of the Good Friday Agreement involve treaties with the ROI and EU law is written specifically into the Agreement and the treaty. Exiting the EU and keeping the peace process going is going to be an extremely difficult if not impossible task. Putting in a hard border between NI and ROI could revitalise Republican terrorism and a hard border between NI and and GB could perhaps revitalise Loyalist terrorism and they are mutually supporting. When one rears its ugly head the other won't be far behind. If they leave things as they are, then the notion of 'taking back our border/control' will be a farce as anyone one in the EEA could go to ROI, stroll across an open border and then get a plane or boat across the Irish sea.

That's not to mention the economic impact on one of the poorest regions of the UK either. In short it's a big mess and the best way to handle it might be to pretend the Brexit never took place and keep going as before.

Re: Simple is best

Not sure if turning the UK into East Berlin is the direction anyone* wants to go down.

*For a given value of anyone.