* Posts by John Smith 19

16330 publicly visible posts • joined 10 Jun 2009

ID cards poster girl laments her £30

John Smith 19 Gold badge
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I don't like to engage in childish behaviour but..

ROTFLMAO

That is all.

HP to fire 9,000 due to 'productivity gains, automation'

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UK Govt IT. Safe in their hands?

IIRC EDS big thing *was* their mainframe skills. Chomping through a whole nations social security files with 5 9s reliability.

So with that gone, aside from a *very* large "entertainment" budget for smoozing civil servants and the occasional minister what do they do that's "special"?

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@Nathan Meyer

"Time to go back in-house people, it may not be cheaper but at least someone will answer the phone when you call."

I'm not sure that the *savings* on big contracts were *ever* that clear cut. Presumably those who've been outsourcing for some time should have *much* better tools for monitoring costs *whoever* does the actual work (in house or outsourced).

IIRC one of Walmarts first jobs on buying Asda supermarkets in the UK was canceling their IBM outsourcing contract. Walmart would definitely be said to be in a cost conscious market and big enough for all the big boys to be interested in getting their account. I suspect they don't trust the con-tractors proposals (and the loss of flexibility and control). From earlier comments on "Deal saving" it seems they are right.

X-51 hypersonic scramjet test: Flameout at Mach 5?

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@BorkedAgain

"Can't see too many realistic peaceful uses for this; all that "cheaper access to space" stuff sounds too much like a sop..."

You're right to be suspicious.

Hypersonic flight is a bit like fusion power. Good for generating a nearly inexhaustible supply of PhDs with *limited* use outside their (highly) specialized areas.

As an *idea* its advocates break down into 2 groups. Those who would like to field a hypersonic (M5+) vehicle to *prove* you don't need rockets to go this fast, *ideally* leading to a hypersonic passenger carrier (say 3x the speed of Concorde). the 2nd group reckon the way to lower launch costs is to get more "aircraft" like operations. In this mindset this is a stage in ramping up the aircraft speed until *ultimately* it gets to launch velocity.

Note that the missions are *qualitatively* different. Cruise in a missile or passenger is fine. It can run rough at startup and getting up to speed because that will be transient. A launcher wants to be *continually* accelerating. If it's not its crashing. This implies a launcher engine is *continually* altering geometry to compensate for its acceleration. And if (big if) it *can* get to M8, that still leaves getting to orbital velocity at M23. It's now above 95-99% of the atmosphere (so any wings are pretty useless).

There is a *reason* NASA chose to pursue RBCC (Rocket Based Combined Cycle). A launcher will need rocket drive. Treating it as a *systems* integration problem and designing it in up front helps spread the weight. IN a cruise vehicle (passenger carrying or not) it would eliminate the dropping of booster rockets at the expense of a smallish oxidizer tank.

What *really* lowers weight is junking the wings, landing gear and huge high temperature (huge x high pressure x high temp capable = V. heavy ) air handling ducts running end to end and replacing them with a well designed rocket engine.

Honestly figuring the weights of these things at the concept design stage is tricky enough that *any* group of supporters can concoct a set of assumptions that will *prove* their preferred development plan will solve the problem. You might note that the USAF (whose top brass *love* the idea of crewed *very* fast aircraft and would bend over backwards to justify one) have still *never* managed to find a mission it can do better *enough* (than a crewed aircraft pushing at most M2) to justify the huge development costs.

Human beings have built at least a *dozen* orbit capable rocket systems in the last 54 years. No one has flown a *single* hypersonic system (1 or more stage) to orbit.

Air is *bulky*. Liquid oxygen is not (by about 700:1) and pretty cheap. Storage tank design is well understood and can be surprisingly compact as long as you avoid a propellant that is colder than LOX (other heat leaks accumulate pools of LOX. Add spark for "interesting" effects) or insanely dangerous to handle (OF2 for example. It can burn through concrete).

Mine will still have a copy of "Surviving the Heat Barrier" in it.

John Smith 19 Gold badge
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History repeats itself, badly

Prior to the 1st generation ICBMs the US was developing the Navajo 2 stage ramjet powered cruise missile.

It was *huge*, expensive (and like *all* defense programmes getting more so as the number of unknown unknowns kept increasing) *until* the point it was realised that as the bomb was getting smaller and it gave *incremental* (M2 fighters were in the field and it was expected their top speed would keep rising till eventually one *could* chase down an M5 missile)

So why not go the whole hog, use rockets and make the payload go *really* fast. The orbiting of Sputnik1 also helped convince planners that it *could* be done (the Soviets had done it).

BTW I'm not sure if it's built into the physics of the combustion process but Scramjets seem to have a narrow operating Mach range. While a regular ramjet works well at just above M1 this one seems to have *needed* M4. A number of modern military planes could manage a M1+ wing or bay launch, eliminating the booster entirely. If you bought up some F105s (1 to fly, the rest for spare parts) you *could* get release of at least 14000lb at M1.98 at 29000 at least (NACA wind tunnel tests. You should get more with low fuel loads and stripping the airframe of most of that 1950's Cold War avionics kit).

*Might* get you SSTO, probably won't. The *massive* Isp *always* look good on paper. It does not last up to full orbital velocity.

John Smith 19 Gold badge
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Some notes on Hypersonics

"I can't see turbojet -> scramjet being a particularly pleasant (or survivable) experience for a squidgy human. "

Acceleration is *not* velocity. Provided the environment system is up to the job (and that's a pretty *big* if) the crew won't have a problem.

Then there's the whole issue of materials science - throw away experiments (as impressive as this one is) are one thing, having a boat that can fly mach 5+, be refuelled and turn around for another sortie without bits (like engines, wings etc) falling off is another.

Correct.

The friction on that thing must be crazy. I know it's not quite in the region of atmospheric re-entry, but it ain't *that* far off.

Actually it's *very* close to re-entry conditions in terms of heat input per unit area, *especially* in the intake area. Proposed solutions included ones proposes to cool the Shuttle wings on reentry.

I don't imagine ejection would be that healthy an option either!

As pointed out a self contained crew capsule would be the proffered option. BTW the F111 capsule had some "issues," concerning misfiring of the guillotine severing the control cables prior to separation. A number were lost over Vietnam before this little fault got found out.

Hope they (as in America) don't think that using it as a cruise/exocet type missile is a good idea tho. You can imagine the news story already - "an American missile today destroyed a terrorist training camp killing 80 combatants. On its path to its target its shockwave destroyed 14 schools and 3 market towns killing 1500 civilians. Officials said they were 'looking into the matter'"

Ballistic flight path. Likely to remain *very* high as long as possible. Inlet pressure is a multiple of surrounding atmospheric pressure. IIRC at M3 it is 37x surrounding air pressure, but at 60-80 000 (roughly SR 71 ceiling) it's roughly 1/16 sea level. Running full tilt at ground level would rupture it unless *ridiculously* strong.

Hypersonic cruise has *some* potential uses. Boosting to orbit (especially single stage) is *highly* speculative.

Mine would have a PMP loaded with "Facing The Heat Barrier" including the history of NASP and its, er, "creative" promoter Anthony DuPont.

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@Poor Coco

"An external oxidizer droptank would be huge, and the whole point is to get a spacecraft into space WITHOUT dropping large parts of airframe."

I think you'll find he was proposing a *pair* of drop tanks, oxidiser and fuel, to bring the vehicle up to ramjet (or rather scramjet) ignition speed.

"Jets kick rockets into the dust for lifting capacity because the oxidizer is ambient and does not require acceleration or carriage on the craft. "

No. Modern good turbojets (something like those on the JSF or Eurofighter) achieve T/W of 10:1.*Poor* rocket engines hit T/W of 40:1. *good* hydrocarbon fueled ones hit 100:1.

A *true* bill needs to take into account *wings*,inlets and landing gear. Thrust on aircraft is *typically* 1/3 of takeoff weight. On the Virgin jet powered round the world aircraft it was 1/9. With *anything* but a rocket wings (and *all* their mass) are *essential* rockets don't need them.

BTW 1 cubic metre of Liquid Oxygen is *roughly* equal to ingesting 700 cubic metres of air.

Now you were saying what exactly?

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@Ian Michale Gumby

"If you listen to the You Tube video, the X15 project had started this effort. However the materials required to handle the heat and stress didn't exist."

It would seem you are unaware that the X-15 flew 199 times. It hit M6.15 (on pure rocket power). It was *designed* to study the *problems* of prolonged hypersonic flight. To do so it used a thicker (but not *much* thicker) skin than conventional aircraft in a high temperature Nickel alloy (rather than aluminium) to act as a heat sink in a "hot structure" design concept.

Getting to M6 or 8 has *never* been a problem. Doing it with oxygen from the *atmosphere* has taken 6 decades to get to a flight vehicle.

And it *still* can't do so from a standing start.

Intel unveils ultrathinnest ultrathin

John Smith 19 Gold badge
FAIL

Too fat.

So what? that's at least a couple of mm above what *can* be done already.

I have a business notebook. 10mm thick. No moving parts. Infinite battery life and infinite range of color display.

Replacements available at all leading stationers.

Bring me some real news.

Time to kill the zombie health records

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NO2ID likely to be in business for a while

As has been pointed out (and to mix metaphors) the folk on various gravy trains have *no* plans to desert this particular trough.

They're digging. They will do (say and write) *whatever* is necessary to keep their jobs. Some because it's a cushy little number and others because they *believe* in their sacred duty (and *right*) for the civil service (never of course themselves) to collect *whatever* information it wants, whenever it wants of whoever it wants.

No need to ask. No need to know.

ISPs told to keep filesharer naughty list

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@James Woods

Interesting. Bit OT but In the UK Readers Digest (both before they went bust in the UK and following their buyout) have made a *career* of running competitions, including sending out books, then *billing* you for the cost if you keep them. this includes handing details to a debt collector. Said DC then starts sending out threatening letters of the "We will charge costs etc" type.

AFAIK this contravenes something like the "Distance Selling" act in the UK but in the US the threat itself would be illegal.

Just a nice comparison of UK and US law.

Blunkett threatens to sue for £30 ID card refund

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AC@16:34

It would make the UK match *most* of the rest of Europe. But needed?

And if some kind of ID is "needed" is the National Identity Register "needed" as well.

The comment the UK ID card would provide more comprehensive surveillance than *any* other country *including* China, and that most descriptions of European systems indicate they operate at regional level within a country at *most* suggest (fairly strongly) it is not.

Given he UK's *very* high level of surveillance and ID requirements for doing *anything* in public life I would suggest this is a non solution to a non problem. Unless your "problem" is how to monitor the movements and abilities (in terms of driving licenses etc) of *everyone* in a country from cradle to grave.

Put that way does it sound more like a paranoid control freaks wet dream?

Alt rock diva's nude snap 'leaked' to tweetosphere

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@Sir Runcible Spoon

"Those breasts don't look sufficiently developed, so she must be under 18."

A suspiciously well informed remark. I hope you have daughters.

Found phone leads to paedophile ring

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And how much do GCHQ want to "Master The Internet" ?

As a Newcastle bus driver seems to have done a rather better job.

It's interesting that when *real* paedophiles are caught they don't bother with stupid "Squid sex" photos. No RIPA, no "Spooks" still CCTV, ARPN nonsense.

BT quotes pensioner £150,000 to get broadband

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@Lloyd

"What on earth would the Welsh need broadband for"

As a Reg reader you *know* what the Internets made for, don't you?

John Smith 19 Gold badge
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I *think* you are talking about "Ionica"

Seemed pretty neat, provided you had good LOS and it was not too sensitive to rain (quite important at near sea level in the UK)

UK.gov issues death warrant for ID cards

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@Ed Blackshaw

We don't. The Labor government *wanted* more than that. The relevant UN air travel body was just the excuse to justify it.

HMRC mails wrong private info to 50,000 taxpayers

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The original justification for ID cards

BS then. BS now.

Israelis build floating electric hover platform

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"Runaway" or "Spies in the Sky"

Looks remarkably like the device used by Gene Simmons to evade capture in the old Michale Crichton/Tom Selleck movie.

The other reference is a JWR Taylor book of the early 70s. Tethered surveillance platform with fuel hose/tether for virtually unlimited endurance. Developed IIRC by Dornier and called something like "Peewit".

German bank robbers in Italian Job moment

John Smith 19 Gold badge
FAIL

I'm sure they've seen the Italian Job in Germany

But I doubt the "suspects" (remember they have not had a trial yet) had the sense of irony to appreciate it.

Cops cuff coke-smuggling lingerie model

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55Kg, a 20 (?) flight

Reckon Sophie Anderton could make that disappear.

My coat's the one with a News of the Screws sting operation story in the pocket.

Contractors dodge ID cards axe

John Smith 19 Gold badge
WTF?

How the hell do these contracts *need* to be *this* big?

How many "eligible" people visit the UK each year that get involved in this system?

Is it >>66million?, =66million?, <66million?

As suspected, this is *not* being put "beyond use," it's more like being put into hibernation.

For when?

This should have saved *100s* of millions of pounds, not 18.

Very f^&*ing angry indeed.

John Smith 19 Gold badge
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Done in the US

Where AFAIK getting a project to be "Multi-year" especially in defense and space, is a *major* issue.

Weather or not it *actually* saves money is another matter. The US has government con-tractors like Europe hase government con-tractors (quite often the *same* con-tractors) who operate different (but not *very*) different business models.

It's part of the *cost* of being a government con-tractor.

No that hyphen is not necessary. Yes that is *exactly* how I think of them.

John Smith 19 Gold badge
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You're thinking of America

Where Uncle Sam can unilaterally cancel *without* compensation *any* contract, not just the last administrations.

However stopping *any* government putting poison pill clauses in contracts (there is an "Unfair Contract Clauses Act," which AFAIK does what it says on the name) but weather it's *acted* upon (especially by governments and their con-tractors) is another matter.

Oz government in filter paranoia meltdown

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Australia, the next theocracy after Iran?

I've never thought of Autstralians as growing the sort of right wing religious zealots that Merkinland has in such abundance but it looks like I'm going to have to revise my opinions.

I'd always figured the folks of Aus had better detectors for this sort of BS than their UK counterparts.

Government yet to set ContactPoint closure date

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Black Helicopters

Still looking to get a clean feed into the NIR

I seem to recall this database was meant to be *only* for children that were on various (including the police) agencies and departments radar.

Then *someone* decided *all* children should be on it

And by "child" they meant IIRC up to 25. A nice overlap when it comes to feeding the National Identity Register.

Much better than the 10 year census the Nazis (assisted by IBM Deutschland) had to work with when it decided to start performing "surgery on society."

Like most of the madder of Labor's database plans it *might* have a *very* small justification.

But nothing like that needed to justify the scale they *wanted* it used on.

Black helos for obvious reasons.

Sony demos very bendy flexible OLED screen

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Now that *is* impressive

Roll up while showing live video.

Organic, transistors less than 80 microns thick. A 4mm bend radius is a bit large but this is a *prototype* not even a product.

The 2 *biggest* problems with portable PCs are (and always have been) the screen and the batteries. Imagine 3 D cells with an end cap of electronics and this to roll out.

BTW I've *never* bought into the "LCD is low power" rubbish. With a substantial light source to generate the light and then throwing away roughly 60% because no normal light source produces polarised light. The power needed by an OLED Vs LCD system *might* surprise people.

Cisco taps into smart grid money machine

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"Derived from commercial ISR routers"

Oh good. Plenty of hardware for people to practice on.

Power companies. You have been in charge of your distribution networks.

Not for long.

Mine will be the one with "Good security is *never* bolted on afterward" on the back.

OFT leaves online ad snoopers to regulate themselves

John Smith 19 Gold badge
FAIL

OFT has had it's moments

But the look like they were a *long* way in the day.

There performance on IT related matters seems *very* poor.

Let me suggest a view that El Reg readers might agree with.

You go on a site it tracks what pages on *that* site you visit and what links you use.

*NO* off-site tracking. Should there be some kind of joining process opt *in* to advertising is mandatory. Readers *ask* to have advertising (remember this allows the site to show it has genuine members to its advertisers. Adblock as and when necessary).

Awkward to make a profit? Probably? Tough to retain subscribers? Quite probably.

But HTF did they conclude "Opt out" was reasonable without a payoff?

Janet, E2BN procure network for education and local authorities

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Joke

House!

Another clean sweep on my BS bingo card.

Computing smart-scope gunsight for US snipers

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good questions on lasers

A very short pulse would be *very* difficult to detect but would need *lots* of processing to pull all the factors off of such a pulse.

Note that repeated pulses could trip a fairly low tech detector that had hysteresis.

Tricky. but pretty clever.

Capita immediately suffers over government cuts

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Anyone with a grand to spare?

Shorting Crapita could be an amusing pastime watching senior fat cats stock options turn to rubbish overnight.

-4% by the end of the week?

Secret US spaceplane spotted in orbit by hobbyists

John Smith 19 Gold badge
Boffin

@ravenviz

"So just imagine any one of a fleet of these can get to just about anywhere on Earth within, say, 90 minutes. "

Strictly it would be 45 mins as the farthest away site is 1/2 way around the world, which would be a sub-orbital flight. However the easiest orbit to reach is the one slanted to the equator at the same angle as the latitude of the launch site. Other require the Earth to precess under its flight path (multiple orbits. It's a problem in geometry) or high fuel usage burns. Plane change is *very* expensive.

"So how long a runway would it need to land?. The options for foreign operations to receive hi-tec supplies with very short notice could be key. "

Check the spec. Then check weather it needs on the ground hardware to help it line up.

"Or indeed delivery of other less savoury payloads to anywhere is also possible (although much less palatable). This can either be a prototype of itself or a larger unit, as part of a constellation."

It does have a payload bay designed to have standardised packages in it. Before you get *too* carried away look at the *huge* 2 stage booster it's sitting on.

It *looks* like a reusable spaceplane (or rather what the USAF think it should look like) but it *really* isn't. It's basically an update of the X20 Dyansoar concept, without a human pilot on board.

I Married a Monster from ISO 9000

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@Graham Bartlett

"And really don't get me started on traceability, since I took over an automotive on-board diagnostics team a few years ago. The previous bloke had just set people doing things which seemed like a good idea at the time, in spite of the fact that a lot of legislative requirements (which you can't sell your cars if you don't meet them) tell you exactly what to do. It took me the better part of a month to work out how deep the shit was, never mind starting shovelling it out to fix the damn thing. Most of the team didn't even know there were requirements, never mind where to find the documents, and the customers were majorly unhappy."

Staggering. I would presume various assorted safety and emissions standards/laws would effectively write at *least* half of *any* spec.

It might be H&S gone mad, dead hand of nanny state etc, but it does give you a pretty good steer as to what direction your team should start moving in.

X2 triple-twirly speedcopter approaching 180 knots

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I guess the take away from all of these faster chopper projects is

*no* solution is actually as simple as they look.

*all* have non obvious factors ready to bite you in the rear if you don't conduct a *very* careful test programme (and in the case of the V22 even if you do. Direction of jet engine exhaust pipes on takeoff/landing anyone?)

Good luck but I wonder given *repeated* efforts to kill V22 failed if it can survive.

I hope it does.

No refunds for ID card pioneers

John Smith 19 Gold badge
Joke

Oh the tragedy

In the back streets of Manchester, where *dozens* of bold "entrepreneurs" had staked their financial future on reverse engineering/copying the card, now facing *ruin*.

Won't *someone* think of the forgers?

BTW IIRC most of the actual *data* is held on the virtual database that *was* the NIR (let's make sure *that* is dismantled along with the more loonier parts of the IPS) stitched together from the data from 3 existing databases.

School IT quango to be expelled

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Shorting RM

(who are still *very* much in business).

Sounds like a plan.

UK border security ring-o-steel flagged 48,000 travellers

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Boffin

AC@10:43

Actually it would be the aftermath of Suez which set the long term relationships between the US, Israel, UK and France. In the UK;s case it was basically "Stay on the right side of US *whatever* their policy position is (IE no matter how butt head stupid it is)"

Combine that with W as the man nominally in charge and the rest follows.

Ball lightning is all in the mind, say Austrian physicists

John Smith 19 Gold badge
Stop

Candidate for an (ig)nobel prize?

While there *might* be multiple explanations for this and this *might* be one of them Occam's razor suggests the it's got 1 cause and that's something to do with plasma physics.

It's *not* the eyewitness accounts (the *whole* point of their work is that *all* you posters who described seeing things were seeing an illusion). It's the film and video recordings and the reports of damage *after* contact.

IMHO V. poor use of scientist time.

Dell begs ToryDems to keep NHS IT project

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AC@22:08

""hats right, just let them email/fax/write down your name address condition dob etc, plus the other 30 sods that day x 500,000 staff, who cares about confidentiality, just "Tell Sid" and sell the data to a viagra seller. Get real. "

Well an inter-site secure email system was a *major* part of the back infrastructure IIRC. I would like to think that *would* have included encryption as an *option* at least. The sub system that distributes imaging data *seems* to work well, is liked by staff and has had no security issues.

"The whole point of the NPFIT is bring the NHS IT it the 21st Century, and protect us from the GMA Boys network who don't give a flying f*ck about patient confidentiality only who's turn is it at 19th Hole and who has the biggest budget to waste on gadget of the month. "

So not talking to *any* frontline staff about what they *need* until roll out would stop any protest. Are you perhaps a graduate of the Huto Militia school of Project Management?

The NHS needs central management, ITIL and effective cost management. It needs the Consultants to be just staff and take a salary and not self styled management guru's, with personal slush funds to waste on what not.

We must "Collectivise" the data to improve its efficiency. The kullacks (sorry medical staff) will attempt to sabotage this, but we will use our "revolutionary sense of justice" to deal with them appropriately.

*If* you believe should put *every* record of *every* hospital, GP and nursing home on *one* database you might be right. You'd naturally conclude that a mainframe (or *very* large server farm) offered the lowest transaction cost and want to build the system to be as unique as possible from everything already installed to force its adoption.

This is complete nonsense. It totally *ignores* how fast people move around (*fairly* slowly by broadband data speeds) and *all* the existing (but apparently un-inventoried) systems installed at *most* large hospitals already. On that basis the *real* issues were more to do with assembling a *virtual* record IE compatible inter system querying, data transfer and security.

If you think my language and historical references make it seem that I think of this as rather *less* about improving services and rather *more* about a Stalinist style desire to impose *total* control on this (*highly* sensitive) data you'd be right. AFAIK the *only* major effect of this idea of *one* management system driving one *central* database is the monoculture of IE6, with attendant data loss and infection stories likely to continue for the foreseeable future.

Highways Agency seeks £40m central IT system

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WTF is this network *for*

Because I'm b^&&$%^d If I can work out its use.

BTW they were looking at spending about £70m to implement mains signaling controlled light dimming. £40m is really small beer for the 5000km of road they manage.

6Music in numbers

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@IR

"so they must play the same songs every single day with almost no variation at all other than the order."

So you've seen their play list then?

.NET for iPad stretches to Google's Android

John Smith 19 Gold badge
Jobs Horns

My Jobs

Is an *angry* Jobs

That is all.

DARPA trying to beat block lists, deep packet inspection

John Smith 19 Gold badge
Terminator

An intriguing justification

The US Army's IP infrastructure has fallen into enemy hands but is has not been shut down, presumably because the enemy is using it also.

Hmmm....

Note icon.

X-51 ordinary-fuel scramjet to fly on Tuesday

John Smith 19 Gold badge
Coat

Scramjets

Propulsion system of the future.

Always has been, always will be.

As for air breathing SSTO.

Dream on.

US boffins synthesize self-replicating bacteria

John Smith 19 Gold badge
WTF?

Suicide genes?

Perhaps they should talk to Monsanto (or whatever they are calling themselves these days) about how well that worked on keeping their herbicide resistance genes locked into their (proprietary) corn strains.

Just a thought.

BTW re-writing the human genome. A substantial part of the human genome matches matches that from various viruses and bacteria. In one case the genes for coding part of the human placenta matches those used to construct the cell wall of a bacteria, presumably humans acquiring and passing this gene on produced healthier babies than those that did not. it would seem reasonable that we acquired incorporated these genes from them and *not* vice versa.

Humans are *already* chimeric.

Usenet's home shuts down today

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NN. Too simple for the WIPM generation.

Just a useful reliable system to help people communicate.

But remember there are a *lot* of news servers left.

Ed Vaizey takes charge of Digital Economy Act

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AC@15:54

Royston is his brother.

LibCons to reduce vetting and barring

John Smith 19 Gold badge
Go

*only* offical IMP figures released were £12Bn

As the Reg reported, it would be the *biggest* UK IT project from day 1 (The NHS NPfIT took *years* to balloon to £17.7Bn)

Not spending that money sounds like a *big* dent in the £110Bn deficit they need to reduce.

Just a thought.

On a smaller scale. WTF to ANPR cameras records get retained for 5 years?

Robothopter in biomimetic butterfly boffinry breakthrough

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Working the problem backwards.

Instead of choosing some random flying insect, working out how it flies (which turns out to be *very* strangely by human standards) and then building a hardware mimic these guys found the simplest flying motion insect *first* then worked out how to model it.

Now that's engineering.