* Posts by John Smith 19

16330 publicly visible posts • joined 10 Jun 2009

Magnetic vortices research uncovers a cool place to put data

John Smith 19 Gold badge
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Quite beautiful.

Useful. Perhaps not.

Interesting. Definitely. Well it tells us something about the universe we either nether checked or didn't realise about the universe.

My only random thought is a Baryon a kind of Muon? If so this might lead into Muon catalyzed fusion studies. A simpler, cheaper way to make them (with a longer working life) would shove this technology along quite a bit.

Otherwise just a rather lovely pattern.

Surprising what you can come up with if you have a small reactor in the basement.

'Blitzer' railgun already 'tactically relevant', boasts maker

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There's also centripetal acceleration but there *might* be a way round this.

the particles being fired around the LHC are so small relative to the pipe they're in that from their POV it is a straight pipe.

The problem is the side force or centripetal acceleration. Using a = r omega^2 with a circle 10Km in radius I got roughly a 16g side force (when the package is hitting orbital velocity of 7950 m^-1) with a 3g front to back acceleration. Not too serious for electronics or anything less complex than say an insect but bad news for humans. Humans don't seem to do 2 axis accelerations well. BTW an F1 driver at 200mph is roughly 89ms^1 or 1/90 of low earth orbit speed. The possible solution follows.

<unsupported speculation>

The ring is approximated by an n sided polygon with straight sides and cylindrical chambers at each chamber. The structure is evacuated to reduce the losses of the payload package pushing all that air ahead of itself.

The wall segments act as linear accelerators giving 3g kicks to the package. As the package free flies between segments (although still under levitation) its yawed about its centre of mass to line up its front end with the next segment for more acceleration. Anything at or near its CM *should* only experience pulses of linear front to back acceleration.

The structure has 2 exits, one aligned to the latitude and one for a polar orbit. Once the package has reached its release velocity it is diverted to an exit tunnel leading to an exit valve while the rest of the system is sealed to preserve vacuum.

</unsupported speculation>

*if* it sidesteps the centripetal acceleration then it just becomes a problem if weather a human can survive repeated acceleration pulses without their sense of balance being permanently scrambled. Using 9144ms^-1/30 000 fps and a 3g acceleration gives roughly 3mins 11 secs

At least 2 methods exist to handle the attitude problem. Control moment gyroscopes at each end of the package or push/pull electromagnets at the entry and exit of each straight section can do the job if their big enough. Passive magnets have a pull/weight ratio of c50:1 (better than any known jet engine)

People who've looked at this have talked about "Shutter" valves of metal foils moving on *very* fast carriers. The differential pressure is still only 1 atm.

Note that while the *rough* layout is simple to describe there are multiple *key* trade-offs which would radically affect how much it would cost to build and run it. The obvious ones are the number of sides in the polygon and the angle of the exit tunnels (45deg gives the shortest length to any given exit height but maximum force needed in the diversion system. Shallower angles give lower forces but much longer tunnels (but with longer to seal the main system). More subtle one would be where to apply the yaw forces. If the package is being turned while still partly *in* a straight section it will need clearance between itself and the wall. Less clearance -> more force -> less power needed.

This still leaves you with a substantial object moving at orbital velocity at near ground level. The thermal protection system is *not* trivial.

Mine would have a copy of the last even years February IEEE Trans. Magnetics in. It's the Railgun Issue, packed with all sorts of pulsed power goodness (or alternatively elaborate ways to make yourself the guest of honor at a closed casket funeral).

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AC@00:45

"I wonder how many explosive compounds are stable at 60,000g? "

Pretty much everyone that launches in an artillery shell capable of air bursting.

The granules are *solid* and tightly packed together in a single lump. As long as they are already resting on a solid base and *everything* accelerates together there is no problem.

OTOH a small weight positioned above the explosive on a strong string which would snap if the load it carried increased by 60000 times *would* detonate most (if not all) known explosives by impact.

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@Anton Ivanov

"an you tell us the unenlightened in the art of ultramodern killware, exactly what kind of guidance package out there will be able to survive that acceleration and actuate fins or command nozzles after that."

A previous US navy project was a naval gun launched "smart shell" using GPS guidance. Can't remember if it's gone to deployment or hit some cost snags but the *hardware* was *very* hard indeed. A far cry from radio proximity fuses in WWII for AA shells using metal shelled valves.

Generating the power to swivel the guidance fins *is* tough as the forces are quite substantial. Military stuff tends to use thermal batteries. Special, designed to application and *very* expensive but potentially Kw power levels (for enough time to get the job done).

'London black cabs to go electric in 2 weeks' – Boris Guardian

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@Dr Dan Holdsworth

"Solve the slowness of recharging problem, and as long as charging stations are common enough you've got the lack of range thing solved as well. "

You're right on the charge rate. Supercapacitors can take big chunks of charge quickly.

However IIRC their issue is that their power density is poor. Basically a lot fewer atoms of a supercap are actually *storing* electrons versus those in a battery.

At one time NASA looked at using electric motors to move the Shuttle main engines during launch (the current system is a monopropellant turbine driven hydraulic system with a nasty fuel). The last go round of the EAPU project seemed to have gone with a supercap/battery mix to handle the rate and capacity issues.

I'd check KWh/l and KWh//kg

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London cab battery packs could be the DRAMs of the 2nd decade.

Standard size, so level(ish) playing field.

More capacity, faster charge, lighter weight -> economic advantage.

Operators prepared to pay *for* economic advantage.

Enough players and enough market to make incremental innovation (still compatible iwth charging infrastructure) worthwhile.

OK chances are it will go nowhere, but a guy can dream, can't he?

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@tigra 07

"Hydrogen is everywhere, it's the most common element in the universe"

Quite true.

" and actually easily extracted.""

Not quite true.

"It's only found raw in interplanetary space at a few atoms per m^3)"

Please note that word "raw" as in the *elemental* form, H2.

You don't want a Hydrogen carrying molecule you want *raw* Hydrogen. BTW *all* combustion vehicles already use a mixture of Hydrogen carrier molecules. They call it petrol or gasoline.

The difference is the amount of *energy* someone is going to put in to get it, multiplied by the amount of energy someone will need to use to process it into a form that can be stored in your vehicle. Even electrolysis is a red herring. Most is still made by processing Methane at on site filling stations. OTOH *directly* usable fuels are *directly* usable.

Bacteria can make Methane and some (reported in ElReg from a Sulphur belching undersea vent )can make Propane as well. None have been found (or made) to produce Hydrogen.

I hope that has clarified my views.

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@Nigel 11

"To store a useful amount in a vehicle means a very high gas pressure."

If you don't like the pressure of a CNG tank, you're going to hate an H2 tank. The usual figure mentioned is about 5000 psi.

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@Nigel 11

"Why no mention of compressed natural gas? True, it's still a fossil fuel. However, less CO2 emissions than diesel, and extremely clean-burning."

Actually it doesn't *have* to be.

ElReg reported a British Gas funded study that (yes not very likely to be a low priced supplier) that estimated that 50% of the current UK gas supply could be met by anaerobic digestion of putrifiable waste (that's meat, soft fruit, animal slurry. Basically anything not loaded with lots of cellulose and chlorophyll)

Not quite the warm fuzzy "Carbon free" option Green campaigners love but in *principle* Carbon neutral.

It might also reduce UK dependence on Russian gas and some of their suppliers more unusual business practices.

A distinction that might be a bit tricky to explain to Bozzer.

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@Charles Manning

"The alternative to switching out the whole battery is a redox flow battery where you just swap out the spent electrolyte and replace it with fresh electrolyte. T"

Sounds *very* nasty. Multiple tanks, filling/recycling/new electrolyte mfg.

But.

Side steps the key issue of how do you get the 5 minute fillup for an EV like a combustion fueled car.

And the fluids will be a *lot* easier to handle than Hydrogen (this is pretty much a given *unless* you like Fluorine or one of the Hydrazine group as one of the reactants)

This could be last man standing in the battery wars.

John Smith 19 Gold badge
Boffin

Kinetic batteries anyone?

That's a high speed flywheel (usually magnetically suspended in a vacuum) with integral solid state motor/generator system.

Potentially fast charging, slower releasing high power density and as long as the vacuum stays intact good long term storage (no gradual loss of capacity as *all* battery systems seem to have).

You still need to generate the power in the first place but that's a given for *any* option.

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@Frederic Bloggs

"Do you have a downer on hydrogen fuel cells"

Depends what you mean by that phrase.

If you mean a system based on a reformer that takes a *liquid* fuel and turns it into Hydrogen for processing by a fuel cell no. Methanol, Ammonia, even LNG are all good.

If you're talking about a pure stored Hydrogen system. Yes.

A few points you may be unaware of regarding Hydrogen.

Room temp H2 piping is welded (and X-rayed) stainless steel. IE It's *very* expensive relative to normal natural gas piping (plastic or metal). Hydrogen diffuses through metal (or any other kind) walls *very* easily.

If you want to send it as a liquid you're looking at "Vacuum jacketed" IE *concentric* welded stainless steel lines with a vacuum between. Liquefying it take 1/3 of the energy carried per unit mass of H2 your liquefying.

So factor in an *extensive* pipe laying operation across London if you want to do this the *proper* way.

That suggests they will make H2 by catalytic processing of natural gas, a *highly* energy intensive process to produce the "clean" fuel. They will then take a shed load *more* energy either to compress it to a reasonable volume or liquefy it.

My point is that Hydrogen has a *lot* of problems which make the idea of it as a "drop in" replacement for *any* fuel ridiculous.

Key point. Hydrogen is an *exceptionally* awkward energy carrier (not a primary fuel. It's only found raw in interplanetary space at a few atoms per m^3) to make, transport and store due to its natural *physical* properties, which don't change unless you live somewhere like Pluto.

It has *very* poor energy *density*. 1 kg of gasoline gives c62Mj at roughly 1.4l. 1Kg of H2 gives c112Mj at c12.9l (*If* it's at -253c), but as you've spent 1/3 of that to liquefy it in the first place. 20% more energy at only 820% more volume.

H2 is stored at either -253c (that's *very* cold) or 5000psi or 34.5Mpa (about 345 atmospheres). The USAF issues TNT equivalents on containers pressurised to this level. A bus using this storage method should be good several kilos of TNT.

No doubt the buses have passed crash testing but at the end of the day we'll know what *really* happens if there is a serious crash. *Hopefully* the tanks will vent and a fountain of H2 will spurt up into the sky and disperse before it ignites (IIRC H2 explodes in air at >4% and <96% H2 concentrations). If not and you're nearby you will see an interesting example of a gas/air explosion. Sometimes referred to as a poor mans atomic bomb.

James May was very impressed by the LH2 Honda he drove in the US some time ago on Top Gear. The issues he identified are *very* relevant to getting acceptance of non fossil fuel powered vehicles.

However his grasp of engineering practicality is about about as sound as my grasp of playing a Bach Concerto.

New spaceplane proposed for NASA station crew contract

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@paulc

"The second, yet again was a management screw up as they'd had evidence of ice striking the underside on previous launches but as they'd gotten away with it, they kept on riding their luck"

It's a form of organizational behavior called "Normalization of deviancy" No harm, no fowl. So lets do it again. IIRC it turns up in *both* Shuttle accident reports.

"I'm seriously sad that here we are, well on down the road and they still haven't got anything in place... "

Look for a PDF called "Facing the heat barrier" by TA Heppenheimer specifically ASSET/PRIME. Some have flown (you can even see one of them in a museum).

"and they're still shit scared of a winged re-entry vehicle"

Winged, no. Shuttle is winged. Lifting bodies are more problematical.

It's a chicken and egg situation. Lifting bodies do offer *some* benefits in some areas.

But come crunch time they have *never* been enough to outweigh the uncertainty of delivery. On giga-dollar absolutely-cannot-fail projects (Shuttle for example) that risk is simply *too* high.

*Somehow* as the design (no matter *how* fully analyzed) gets more refined and starts to be manufactured the weight just seems to balloon.

NASA's last go at a lifting body was the X33. It was not a poster child for X programmes.

The OSC vehicle versus Dragon is an interesting example. The "plane" carries 4 people at present, the capsule 7. Having built actual Dragon capsules SpaceX can be fairly confident that it will accommodate that number. That cross range has quite a price in payload and both are designed to sit on top of a rocket to begin with.

BTW on a technology point., AFAIK no one has flown a composite space vehicle *ever*, except Bigelow. Their hardware is not designed to land and not pressurized during launch. In the White world only the DC-X had a composite airframe. It was designed to operate to M3 at most.

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@benkid77

"Doesn't matter that they are based on old technology. "

Quite true.

"What matters is that they are up and running now. "

And the fact they the current agreed price for US astronauts is $47m dollars a seat. Take it or leave it.

On that basis it's surprising some partner did not do a capsule by now. However only Ariane 5 is meant to be crew rated (holdover from the Hermes lets-copy-the-X20 plan) and I suspect ESA view paying the Russians as a cheap way to keep them funded and not doing deals with states to spread the technology. The ESA ARD proejct demonstrated they can do a complete launch and recovery cycle.

The logical players would be the Japanese, but I don't think they ever looked at crew rating their LV's.

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@malenfant

"The main reason the shuttle underperforms at sending payload to the ISS is because out of a total 70 tons of payload the STS system wastes 50 tons on wings tiles, airframe and other assorted bits of airplane crap that aren't mission relevant... T"

I think you'll find getting both liquid and solid propellant engines which underperformed by 2-3 secs of Isp did not help things.

Note the wings were *vital* to the USAF's desire for once around return to launch site operation, now suspected primarily for their plan to capture hostile USSR satellites.

Had they only asked for it to be supportable from any reasonably sized military airfield (and figure out how to recover it from there) the design would have been *very* different..

John Smith 19 Gold badge
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A note on X-20 Dyna Soar, Hermes, X33 and Ariane

X-20

Cancelled by Robert McNamara due to increasing weight without increasing payload (in fact the payload was shrinking), instability concerns over the wings at the front of a Titan launch vehicle and IIRC a continually rising budget.

Hermes

Championed by France, funded (and ultimately canceled) through ESA due to continuing weight growth and reducing payload (by the end they were planning to put most of the environmental control/life support system in an expendable package to jettison before re-entry)

X33

Lifting body shape supposedly designed to demonstrate altitude compensating linear plug nozzle and reuseability. Cancelled after over $1.1Bn spent (including a chunk of the budget for the flight test programme). NASA bent over backward to make this one fly and LockMart laughed all the way to the bank.

Ariane 5

Designed to carry Hermes and in principle the only non Russian designed crew rated launcher outside the US.

Anyone spotting a pattern hear with lifting bodies?

weight growth -> payload shrink -> budget rises -> cancellation

Looks *so* cool though.

BTW the Russian Shuttle followed the orbiter winged fuselage closely. It was *not* a lifting body either. AFAIK only the USAF ASSET/PRIME programmes tested anything close to such shapes at anything close to orbital velocity.

AFAIK the only European shuttle that has flown successfully is the EuroSEC Doppleganger.

I'm off for a drink. Anyone care to join me?

John Smith 19 Gold badge
FAIL

So, having not launched a *single* copy of their Taurus II/Cygnus design

They want to scrap the design (which was *meant* to feed into the CCDev programme) and build a new one.

Note this is a *classic* con-tractor play to NASA.

1) Shape designed to appeal to some sections of senior NASA management.

2) Spread the work ("keeping the rice bowls filled") across multiple con-tractors (with the implied farming out of some of this research to various NASA centres, keeping their days filled).

3) Need for a *big* budget to actually build it.

4) *Nothing* about this exists except the Powerpoint slides.

In fact there are actually 2 answers to the "Cross range" problem, if you simply *must* have it.

1) Design and size a *system* architecture (wings, body engines, landing gear and associated *infrastructure*) to be able to land *without* needing the lake bed at Edwards to do so. Not necessarily into a civilian airport but just a *normal* runway with the services that a normal military airport could provide in terms of air conditioning, power etc until the support plane (planes?) arrives to deal with it. This has *never* been tried. It would be more attractive if someone designed a concept which can "self ferry" (no one delivers a new Boeing by *road* to its operator. They just get a skeleton crew to *fly* it in). I'd guess a likely support plane would be a C17 or a an 225

Solving those problems would take *real* engineering skill.

2)Use a design with the best available hypersonic L/D known. AFAIK this is the USAF Flight Dynamics Lab version 5 shape. It is *meant* to have good enough L/D (c3 at >M5) to offer *hemispheric* coverage (+/- 90 Deg cross range).

Oddly I've never heard NASA *consider* using it and AFAIK no one has flown it to orbit to see if it really live up to its claims (logic suggest USAF would have flown at *least* a small one by now as a black programme, as it's meant to be head and shoulders above all contenders. But who would know?)

OSC continue their journey from pioneering aerospace company to government con-tractor.

IMHO only one icon appropriate.

Prosecutors kick Phorm case upstairs

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@JustaKOS

"So they'd be prosecuting them one day and legalising it the next. Hence the delay - they can't work how to do it all without looking like arses."

This makes a lot of a sense. However Phorn and BT are now both *public* companies. Neither is part of a govt, Whatever they are now calling the Interception Modernization Programme now (did

someone wake and realise what acronym the Government IMP made?)

There *is* no conflict, although you can't help wondering if some senior civil servant gave Phorn or BT some "assurances" that they would not be prosecuted and we know how such people hate to break a promise to companies.

MPs set out on quest to find UK.gov's IT strategy

John Smith 19 Gold badge
Joke

Will Claire Perry or Ed Vaizey

Because they bring such deep insights into issues like security, privacy and the role of cloud computing.

US Navy achieves '100 mile' hypersonic railgun test shot

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AC@13:14

IRL you need to factor in launch losses. That typically adds c1000 ms and you can write off that 1.6 Kms if you want polar launch (and quite a lot of people would). .

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@Schlamperei Ist Teuer

People do keep coming back to this one. It *looks* so simple all it should take is a *little* bit of work.

Like solid fuel boosters. So little to go wrong. Yeah right.

BTW while the orbital velocity (depending on *exact* orbital height. I normally go with 7950ms) it totally ignores the atmospheric drag and other losses. The US rule of thumb was a real launcher takes 30k fps or 9144ms. If you need more for the planned payload you've gone wrong and if you don't need all of it you declare a higher payload.

John Smith 19 Gold badge
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Oops

My senior moment.

Using V^2=u^2 + 2as with m1=340ms^-1 with s = 10m a should be 325125ms^-1 or c33 000 g.

an interesting way to reduce any thing organic to a puree in almost no time at all.

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AC@10:57

In the sense of "homing" onto the body itself yes. That's more for killing a whole *planet*.

As for *precision* strike or the "Rod from God" concept then no you need something a bit smaller and a bit more subtle.

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@TeeCee

"Treat the barrels as disposable and fit an autochange system........"

I'd forgotten about that trick.

Something similar crops up in Barrington Bailey's "The Zen Gun."

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AC@13:14

Gun launch comes up on a regular basis and I think there is a usenet FAQ on it.

Big drawback is the *very* serious friction heating you get.

There's a very good reason why rockets do *most* of their accelerating above as much of the sensible atmosphere as possible.

A useful rule of thumb is that atmospheric pressure halves for every doubling of altitude starting at 5600m. At that height you are at about 1/2 standard. This makes a *big* difference on air density which is a key issue for heat calculations. the skins and inlets of hypersonic aircraft (if they *ever* get built) face similar problems.

Yes it *is* on a par with re-entry heating levels.

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Distribution A:Approved for unlimted distribution

Distribution B available on Wikileaks shortly.

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Boffin

@Nigel 11

The US Navy had a guided artillery shell project using GPS. Note that radar proximity fuses have been fitted to AA shells since WWII. Assuming that things about 10m long (well it look pretty big to me) that gives it a *relatively* leisurely 58g acceleration. The Spring ABM IIRC was pulling 100g+ from launch. I think Sprint holds the record for a lot of this mad stuff.

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@Anton Ivanov

"What the navy forgets is that there has not been a single case in the last century and a half where the navy has succeeded in a frontal assault on a fortified coastal artillery."

I think that's also a running theme of EE Smiths Lensmen series.

Planetary defenses beat space based dreadnaughts *every* time.

Catfish: A fanfare for Facebook fakery

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And I did'nt think Facebook facial recognition would have *any* uses.

1 Picture, 300 different identities?

Hacker warning over internet-connected HDTVs

John Smith 19 Gold badge
Troll

Shocking redaction?

One might almost think they wanted people to get hacked.

Surely not.

Google Chrome OS mauled by Richard Stallman

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Look up Isiah Berlin and the idea of -ve and +ve liberty

-ve liberty is the right to *not* have your email, telephone or post opened or tapped.

+ve liberty is the right to sign up to a service that will copy and study *every* computer readable document you generate

What people will do to exercise their rights, eh?

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@AdamWill

"maybe with a decent regulatory framework and several decades of experience we'll get this right, "

I think that's the bit that is missing.

Getting that framework built (and enforced) will not be easy.

Expect saturation levels of whining from Google/Amazon/Facebook/MySpace (let's not forget that last one is now part of Rupert Newscorp-does-whatever-the-Chinese-govt-tells-them-to Murdoch's media empire. Expect plenty of verbiage which basically translates to "We can't make any money if people want to keep their stuff secret"

(Note that use of "secret" implying you have something to hide.rather than "private" as in MYOFB)

Exciting times.

Expect lots of drama.

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Legal position of all that data once it's in the "cloud"

Sitting on *your* desk* in *your* home it's pretty clear.

In the cloud *where* is it?

Which jurisdiction?

What are there disclosure laws? Search warrant or private phone call from local police/secret police/St John Ambulance?

In *theory* the infrastructure should be *much* more reliable (near mainframe grade)

But SFW if anything you hand over (like the latest backup copy of your software/hardware/drug) can be read by anyone with "authority" depending on wherever the hell on the planet it ends up. Or in the case of US corporations whatever their government asks them to transfer.

It's legal as long as there is *no* law stopping them.

Thumbs up. He's right. If you're happy to have *more* of your life known to any BOFH who cares to look and any "authorized" person who can ask for your data *whatever* that data is (personal or business) go right ahead.

Privacy. Easy to loose. Damm hard to regain.

Anonymous hackers' Wikileaks 'infowar' LATEST ROUNDUP

John Smith 19 Gold badge
Joke

US Gov Infosec == UK License Fee Detector Vans

Heard about but *rarely* seen.

Highly secretive inner workings.

Seem to target innocent people as often as guilty.

Not very effective at stopping things happening in the first place.

Fair comparison?

Grand jury meets to decide fate of WikiLeaks founder

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@YAPR

And the point you are making is?

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Flame

So Sweden wants him for a rape allegation but not that *much*

After you with the espionage charges, US Attorney General.

I'd always thought the US was quite good about sunsetting some of its more stupid laws once a threat had passed. This one seems well past its time.

Ethics? There's an app for that

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But can it print out revised labels as well?

Just asking. Purely for information purposes. No intent

Electric forcefield space sailing-ship tech gets EU funding

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It's actually a "Solar wind" sail

Solar sails primarily receive thrust from photons, which have no charge (life would get pretty interesting if photons did have charge and could then be bent around paths by magnets and electric fields).

Not sure what the balance is (charged particles c 1/3 to 1/5 light speed I think) but obviously *much* heavier.

A clever idea. BTW depending on the size of the wires during the trip and weather they are reeled out or reeled in they can also act as antenna or power receivers for beamed energy.

It looks like a system whose power source could be a better fit to the thrust of the system.

Good luck with the research programme.

Beeb ordered to release TV licensing contract sweeteners

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Where detector vans went

Darkness preceeds.

Elon Musk's Dragon capsule reaches orbit successfully

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@Jared Hunt

My original post was a *very* brief summary of a longer post made some time ago on another thread. This version gave just the outlines of the suggestion.

*suitably* equipped means "modified", as in not the design as it exists now but with some *relatively* minor modifications (with most of the heavier bits on the first stage. On the 2nd stage 1Kg of extra mass nearly equals a 1Kg *loss* of payload. On 1st stages it's something like removing 16Kg to get 1Kg of payload increase. You're already running control signals into the inter-stage area anyway. How heavy can a couple of low pressure valves (<3bar gauge IIRC 1 cryogenic) and some equally low pressure piping be?

"Firstly: At stage separation, the vehicle is flying nearly horizontally"

I'd hope so.

" at about mach 6"

AFAIK most 2 stage liquid fuel launchers split the delta v *evenly* between the 2 stages. it should be at least M11 to M12.

" and has next to no fuel left so there's little scope for throttling down."

I think you're confusing fuel left and the ability to to *slow* down or the ability to *throttle* down. That's a feature of the engine design. The Falcon 1st stage Merlin engines don't seem to throttle but the 2nd stage vacuum ones can do so down to 60%. shutting down, suggesting its an engine mod (I'd suspect SpaceX can turn a Merlin vacuum engine back to a 1st stage engine *almost* as quickly.

"how do you propose that a rocket going horizontally at mach 6 (almost certainly over the ocean as well) turns its arse around to face the ground"

The same way it got into that attitude in the first place. Using thrust vectoring. It was *always* doubtful you could kill the horizontal velocity it had built up. In my original post the fallback plan was to rotate it so the engines would forward on the axis of travel. It's a 3 point turn in space or a long jumper shifting from body first to legs first for the landing depending on what analogy you prefer. When even the *lowest* thrust level exceeds the total rocket mass its time to shut off the engines and continue to let the tanks drain. BTW probably the *hairiest* moment will be at the top of the 3 point turn which I estimate will be the point of maximum risk of starvation of propellant tot he engines.

" and slows itself down to a nice guided landing?"

This is *not* a landing. It's an *abort*. I guess the phrase "mother of all crumple zones" was not specific enough. It's a controlled crash.

I fully expect the *whole* of the 2 stages to concertina (remarkably evenly if they do so like the nose down crash test that Armadillo Aerospace did of their capsule some time back), absorbing the *massive* kinetic energy of the vehicle. The Falcon is a *total* write off. But the payload, IE the load that *pays* is unharmed and can be prepared for a 2nd launch, although any humans will *probably* need some new suit liners. The phrase "Express elevator to Hell, going down" would sum up my view of it pretty well.

You may still be unclear why I proposed this.

SpaceX have talked about using their main capsule motor in a special escape mode in the event of failure (otherwise it serves like the main engine on the Apollo service module) but a serious failure puts the reliability of *all* components on a vehicle that are not *already* running in doubt, like the main motor and the separation explosive bolts and the parachute deployment.

This idea only uses components that are either *already* running (admittedly in a complex and novel way), components that can be tested *repeatedly* before flight (latching solenoid rather than explosive actuated valves for example) and the physics of the operating vehicle itself.

Customers don't *give* a stuff how their payload gets *into* orbit. Only that it gets to the *right* orbit on *time*.

A provider who could say "We didn't put your payload up, but we did not destroy it and it's in good enough condition to launch at the next window" would have a *significant* advantage over one who said "Hey its a rocket, y'know. The best ones got a 1 in 50 chance of failing anyway. Better luck next time. Come see us again when the insurance coughs up or you got some more money."

Just to be clear this would not even be *tried* without massive CFD and FEA simulation.

Yes intact abort on a rocket *sounds* insane, but nothing I know absolutely *forbids* it from working, either on Falcon or any other launcher with common fueled stages (which lets out Ariane and IIRC the Indian designs but might still include some of the FSU types).

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@Spartacus

"If you include competitors who would contract for NASA if asked, but not a comercial objective: 1)Roscosmos' Progress 2) ESA's ATV 3)JAXA's HTV"

Quite true. But you miss the objective of the Commercial Orbital Transportation Services contract and its follow on planed contract for crewed transfer.

A local capsule

on a local launcher

made by local people

for launching local payloads

Mine will be the one with "Royston Vaizey. Locals welcome"

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@Gene Cash

"And what competitors? I don't see anybody else that's flown anything other than some powerpoint slides. Orbital are the only ones I see being anywhere close to bending metal."

Orbital did get the remainder of the cash (c$190m IIRC) when the Rocketplane-Kistler bid failed to secure external funding. They are the other official entry for the COTS programme (SpaceX is not a hobby shop. It's in it for the money).

However OSC they are now asking for $312m for a "risk reduction" flight on top of their current fudning. IIRC the Spacex award was c$250m total. But then by then they had launched 4 Falcon 1's and 1 had already made orbit.

OSC have updated their web site (check elreg for a link) but they are still a long way from even first launch. However they have poured a *lot* of concrete.

Primary school miss flashes porn vid at kiddies

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thecaskeis(not)alie

And under UK law is *very* close to an arrestable offense.

Stealing credit card details via NFC is easy/pointless

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NFC details not worth stealing

*yet*

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@TallPhotoPerson

"Didn’t Jeremy Clarkson challenge anyone to try and do something with his bank account number and then regret the challenge? "

He did.

Someone did. IIRC They put him down for a standing order to a charity. He didn't think preventing identity theft was that difficult.

Doesn't think that now though.

Oracle demands another $211.6m from SAP

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Classic

It's an M&A.

It's about cash flow, revenue growth.

Who cares *how* they do their business (what business are they in again exactly?)

How exactly Oracle extrapolated $14m to > $1Bn (and got the court to *believe* it) is a mystery. Oracle didn't deserve to win but I'd say SAP did deserve to loose.

Our German friends have received a spanking worthy of the Moderatrix.

New NASA model: Doubled CO2 means just 1.64°C warming

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@David Robinson 2

"Sadly, the global warmers have turned Co2 into a deadly poison. "

CO2 triggers the human bodies breathing response. Were you in a chamber with CO2 at possibly as little as 1% you'd be panting like you'd run a marathon. Up the level a bit more and your thought processes start to deteriorate badly.

"One point that I have not seen mentioned is that heat travels only toward cold. "

Quite true

"The rate of travel is proportionate to the temperature differential. "

Quite true

Therefore heat loss to space will increase with increased temperatures "

That would be your *opinion*. It depends on how much of that heat transfer is by conduction, convection or radiation. Hint. Space is very close to a *vacuum* so the first 2 don't work.

"The AGW supporters would have us believe that there is an outermost layer of the atmosphere that is between 600 and 1500Cdeg. which traps heat in toward the earth."

Did you know that for gases the temperature of a gas is a measure of the average kinetic energy of the molecules of that gas? If you did you would understand why the idea of a gas layer at 1600c is *not* impossible. You would also know that vacuums do *not* have a temperature as such.

You might find reading a Physics textbook at high school or first year undergraduate level to be a useful investment of your time.

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@Tom 13

"the fix station record and the satellite data don't match up well, just like the tree rings abandoned them when they needed them most, so they just ignored them and substituted other data. "

Which is sort of where it stops being science and starts being a faith.

Scientist follow the evidence *wherever* it leads.

My gut feeling on the fixed station record is that it will need satellite photography (probably in the IR spectrum if available) of the sites to do year on year adjustment. I don't think some simple equation is going to cut it.

30 years is *practically* nothing on the Earth's timescale but I figure if you can't match up the last 30 years *pretty* closely you might as well go home.

OT I always admired Max Planc for his behaviour. Trained as a Newtonian he hated the idea that things depended on what way some "cosmic dice" had fallen. But he accepted it was the *only* model that explained the evidence.

I'd like to see a bit more of this. A model that fits the worlds wheather,but takes 25 hrs to run 24 hrs forward, can *always* be made faster. But let's get it right *first*.

SpaceX Dragon bathes in the Pacific

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Geoff Campell

"Hmmmm, are SpaceX shares traded?"

AFAIK it's still a private company. So no faffing about massaging sales figures and stock holder egos. I'm sure they have an IPO plan *somewhere* and topping the PayPal payday would be a very impressive achievement

Default judgement FAIL: ACS:Law muffs up in court

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A Judge who calls BS on there antics

First rate work.