Posts by Richard Plinston

Re: @AC: "Linux kernel Retro"

> run optimally on devices that have only 512KB of RAM

Not since MS-DOS 2.1 has anything from Microsoft tried running in such a small amount of RAM.

Re: Eviscerated?

> Apple remind me of the wash powder adverts "this one is better than our last one which was lets be honest, crap"

Did Microsoft make wash powder too? That sounds just like them:

"Windows 95 gets rid of the hated 3.1 interface"

"Windows NT failed 'the Ballmer Boys test'"

They didn't need to criticize Vista when 7 came out.

Re: Disaster waiting to happen.

> not all iPhone apps work on an iPad

If an app does not work on an iPad then will the app store download it to one ?

Re: Disaster waiting to happen.

> Now MS users are "cretinous." I sense a No True Scotsman lurking in the depths of your argument.

And you have a 'Straw Man' in yours.

The statement clearly has 'cretinous users' as a subset of all users. 'cretinous users' will believe that Windows RT should run all Windows software. If you do not believe that then you may be a 'non-cretinous user' (but still confused about logic fallacies).

Re: He's dead wrong...

> And as the WindowsRT version is to be priced competitively with the iPad apparently,

It was implied that the Surface RT was to be priced the same as an existing tablet, possibly the same as an iPad3 or top Samsung. Given that OEMs were reluctant to make these because of the cost, it is likely that MS may be subsidizing these, or at least not charging themselves the $80 licence fee.

The surface RT is the first ARM product with 'full' Windows and this is the first of the rewritten kernel. The app store is unproven. This means that even if it is the same price as an iPad3 it is nowhere near 'competitive'.

Anyway Apple can easily drop iPad2 prices and still be profitable.

> and the Pro version to be priced competitively with Ultrabooks,

It may be the same price but that does not make it 'competitive'. Ultrabooks are a style item, Surface is not.

Anyway, Surface will not be out for 2 or 3 quarters, other companies will not sit on their hands waiting for MS to take [some of] the market. That is in fact what Nokia complained about: "We could have sold more if the competition shut down development".

Re: Microsoft have said 100 times that windows phone 7.5 apps will work in in Windows 8?

> Considering I can run Win95 games on Win7

More relevant is: could you run WM6.5 apps on WP7 ?

And BTW, does that mean you have been wasting your life playing computer games for 17 years now ?

Re: Any bets?

> Apparently you CAN use it on your lap, among other things.

I see that it can be set on one's lap, but the question was: can it be _used_ on the lap. The photo shows that the screen angle is quite wrong for lap use, far too upright. The floppy hinge for the keyboard will limit its ability to add stability and any attempt at swiping the screen will result in disaster.

I suspect that it may not fit well on airline seat tables. The floppy hinge would not help there if the keyboard overhangs the front of the table, and the fixed screen angle would conflict with the seat in front.

As for portrait mode this may have some small usage, but the keyboard can only be connected in landscape mode which would be limiting. And 16:9 is just wrong for portrait.

Re: the keyboard has got potential

> However these keyboards really have some style and show some innovations.

The keyboards use a connector with a floppy connection. This has several disadvantages that I see:

* They only work in landscape mode.

* They do not support the screen unit, surface with keyboard will not be usable on your lap.

* They must be connected to be usable, while bluetooth or USB keyboards are not locked to the unit.

The are only the usual 'microsoft innovation', copying what others have done.

Since when has neon colours been 'style', maybe in the 1950s.

http://reviews.cnet.com/8301-31747_7-20091329-243/keyboarding-your-ipad-best-keyboard-cases/

Re: We need a new name for large tablets with keyboards...

> How about the name "laptop"?

> Any objections?

Yes, The Surface devices will never be suitable for your lap. The distribution of weight is wrong, the stand is unworkable and the keyboard attachment is floppy.

'Tabletop' perhaps.

Re: The Crash

> it has the keyboard, etc. so it's not exactly an iPad equivalent.

It appears that it will have a choice of keyboards, a 3mm touch or a 5mm moving key. This implies that they will be options, or accessories, and not in the basic price of the units. This means that they will be priced at (iPad3 price) + keyboard for RT or (Ultrabook price) + keyboard for Pro.

iPads can have keyboards. Bluetooth ones allow the unit to be landscape or portrait, and for the keyboard to be used more conveniently than locked to the screen unit.

http://reviews.cnet.com/8301-31747_7-20091329-243/keyboarding-your-ipad-best-keyboard-cases/

Re: Availability and outlets

> same time as Windows 8 which is 99% looking likely to be October/November

When Windows 95 looked like it may get very late and miss the holiday buying spree, Gates was alleged to say "Windows 95 will be released before Christmas, but we may have to delay December by a couple of months".

Re: A bad time for MicroSoft

> you can't ignore that Microsoft also has a loyal base of followers, a MUCH bigger base, and they are just as passionate and cult like

That's why Android has only a 60% share of the smartphone market. Without the huge cult like follower base of Microsoft they could have as much as 61%.

Re: Who is going to sell it?

> You have no idea if this will be true so why say it?

https://allthingsd.com/20120618/coming-up-live-microsofts-tablet-event-from-las-milk-studios/

"""Microsoft says Surface will be sold in __its__ retail stores and via __Microsoft’s__ online stores."""

(emphasis mine)

Re: EDLIN was from IBM.

> EDLIN was from IBM.

Completely wrong.

"""Edlin was created by Tim Paterson in two weeks in 1980, and was expected to have a six-month shelf life."""

Re: Touch v Desktop

> by bolting the touch OS into the desktop

That isn't to fix fragmentation. The strategy is to make Metro "the most familiar UI on the planet" (said by MS spokesman). By forcing it down your throats you will eventually love it and demand this UI on your phone and on your tablet.

This will fail because they forgot that releasing Windows 8 does not make all XP and 7 users automatically run Metro. An emergency, critical, unavoidable SP pack will fix that.

Re: Who is going to sell it?

> I will get it from John Lewis

No you won't.

> I'll go to PC world to try it one out

> buy it from either them or Scan.

No you won't.

They will be available in Microsoft shops or online from Microsoft. There will be no margin for anyone else to take a cut.

Re: how have they screwed up?

> Unlike the HP Touchpad though I don't expect MS to give up after one iteration

It is more than likely that HP 'gave up' because Microsoft, after having just announced they were doing WOA, told HP that making non-Windows tablets was being disloyal and that discounts were being re-evaluated.

Just like netbooks really where MS brought XP back alive just to kill off Linux ones.

Re: This is soooo MSFT

Your WP7 phone just became obsolete. MS has announced WP8 and there will be no upgrades of WP7 phones to WP8.

Back in the 80s and 90s MS relied on vapourware to delay people buying stuff until MS could write their own. Some of this never turned up, but never mind, the targets that MS aimed out were starved of sales while everyone waited for MS's product.

MS has been trying that tactic with mobile. It has failed because the targets of its vapourware are its own. With WM6 it said that 'the next version will be soon'. Then they delivered WM6.5 and talked about WP7. WP7 was short a few features so it was 'wait for 7.1', then 'wait for 7.5'. But they started discussing 'Apollo' and 'SuperPhone' as being 'this year'. Now they have announced WP8 which they claim will be this year. Who would buy a WP7.5 now they know it is already a dead product ?

Obviously 'Surface' was announced to deflect Google's tablet and to slow down iPad and Android until MS's can be evaluated. But that may be 6 months for ARM and several more until the x86 PRO.

As these are 0.9 versions you should also wait for SP2 or version 3.

Re: whats the point?

> it's not really a competitor to the iPad, it's not entirely an ultrabook

What MS have said about pricing is that the RT will be priced around that of ARM tablets (ie iPad3 or top Galaxy) while the PRO will be about the price of an Ultrabook.

So you are correct: it won't be competitive with iPad and it's not entirely an ultrabook, just the price.

Re: Presumably, since its ARM

> Libre Office will run on it

Windows RT, and Metro applications on Windows Pro, can _only_ source applications from Microsoft's store. I don't think that you will find Libre Office there.

I did run OpenOffice on my Nokia N800. Interesting, but it did need a keyboard to work properly. The N810 had a slide out kb. With the N800 I could use a USB kb, or Bluetooth, but that wouldn't fit in my pocket.

Re: 30 year history

Microsoft produced a Z80 softcard for the Apple ][ in 1980 in conjunction with SCP (who 'wrote' QDOS). This ran DRI's CP/M. Both MS and SCP were full DRI OEMs for CP/M so they had as full an access to CP/M internals as anyone could get.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Z-80_SoftCard

"""the SoftCard was Microsoft's number one revenue source in 1980."""

Re: There's something interesting here...

> therefore it's effectively a laptop with a detachable touchscreen

You won't be using one on your lap with the keyboard. A laptop holds its screen rigidly and the weight is in the base. A 'Surface' has a loose joint to the keyboard and the weight is in the screen unit which then requires a prop. It could only be used on a table or similar.

It is also a 10" laptop, well netbook actually, that will cost (the x86 one) like a 15" or 17" Ultrabook. You could buy a laptop _and_ an iPad for the price of one of these.

Re: I think MS does get it

> And yes Office is a plus

Surface Pro does not come with Office. You will have to buy it at usual prices.

Surface RT (ARM) does come with "Office RT Preview". This is not the full Office that you would find on an x86 machine. The 'Preview' is also unclarified, it may be a version that expires and requires buying of the usable version later, just as 'free trial' versions do.

Re: coool just what we always needed

> If I can replace desktop, laptop and tablet with one device

Sorry, but you have failed the Microsoft marketing test.

Metro on desktops, surface, WP8 and cloudy Azure is about buying _all_three_ devices and having them connected.

How else will Microsoft have increased revenue over the next few years. "One device" is the way to ruination (of Microsoft).

Re: VaporMg-Ware

> particularly the x86

Would you really want a 'fry an egg' Intel CPU and a 'red ring of death' power supply in a *Magnesium* case ?

These could be the next stealth terrorist weapon.

Re: good for consumers - innovation and choice?

> it is bound to help drive innovation and choice.

Microsoft driving 'innovation and choice' ? I don't think so.

Metro is compulsory on Windows 8, it may make consumers choose something else, or choose to keep XP/7.

MS's have effectively killed Nokia's Meego and Meltemi. They will kill off Symbian ans S40 as soon as possible.

It is likely that HP dumped WebOS because MS threatened to remove discounts on all products for being 'disloyal'. Same with Netbooks.

Re: Whats with the keyboard?

Many Windows x86 applications won't work well with touch, they require keyboards and mouse (or touch pad substitute). On screen keyboard may well just get in the way because the app was not designed to share the screen with the input device.

Re: BAU for MS then?

> RT includes Office pre-installed (i.e. "for free")

Microsoft say that it includes "Office RT Preview".

We don't know whether 'Preview' is just an early version that will be upgraded 'for free' or whether it is a 'trial' version that will expire and require to buy a real version.

We also don't know what feature downgrades that 'Office RT' has when compared to 'Office'.

What we do know is that the changes of getting Firefox, OpenOffice, etc is approx. nil.

Re: So I need a desk to set it on?

Exactly, so it doesn't complete with iPad and Android tablets. It competes against netbooks and possibly other transformers.

Re: BAU for MS then?

"""We (microsoft) are coming and we are going to smash your business to smithereens"""

It is unlikely that either the Windows 8 or the RT will affect iPad at all. The keyboard is there because most Windows applications (non-Metro) will _require_ keyboard and (mouse substitute) trackpad. This means that they will not work well as laptops (on lap). They will not work well without the keyboard. They need to be on a desk.

The business that they will smash is the MS OEMs. Those intending to build Windows 8 or RT tablets will now give up. HP's WebOS has already been smashed, probably by MS threatening to remove discounts on all Microsoft products.

It is unlikely that these will smash Android tablets. The reason for buying Windows is to run Windows programs. RT won't do that so there is no reason to not just buy Android. x86 will be much more expensive (Ultrabook prices) but will have small 10" screen. Just like netbooks people will prefer a smallish (15") full facility laptop for much less money.

Re: What if extension...

> every PC with Windows 8 ships with a tablet

Making them have two Metro interfaces when no one wants even one. It would also make them more expensive than an Apple Mac, I can see that working - not.

There may be a point to having a mobile device able to run both as a phone and/or tablet and as a desktop OS when plugged into a TV (HDMI) or base station. Then your data would be available. MS wouldn't do that, they want you to buy a Windows 8 desktop _and_ a Windows RT tablet _and_ a WP8 phone and use their cloud to shuffle data. That is how they will generate revenue growth.

Apple, Google and OEMs, Ubuntu, etc _will_ combine their phone/tablet and a desktop OS so that you only need one.

Re: User accounts

> Windows 8 has proper user accounts

I very much doubt that WOA/Windows RT does.