Posts by Richard Plinston

Re: And other times it worked out pretty well.

> Stacker -> DoubleSpace

Microsoft were sued by Stacker because MS _stole_ their code. Stac won $120million and briefly had a stop on sales of MS-DOS to get a further settlement.

> 1-2-3 -> Excel

> WordPerfect/WordStar -> Word

Microsoft made Windows run their products much better than competitor's ones by having a hidden API. They also changed the API to delay Lotus and WordPerfect getting their products to market.

> OS/2* -> Windows NT

What killed OS/2 was the inclusion of Windows 3.0. IBM was under anti-trust provisions and was required to not announce products more than 3 months in advance. They had Windows 3.1 running under OS/2 before it was released and announced it. Microsoft simply delayed 3.1 release until the 3 months was up and IBM had to release with 3.0.

Another ploy that MS did was when there was to be a new OS/2 release (on 22 diskettes) they went around all the diskette manufacturers and bought all of the next 6 months supply. They had several warehouses full of diskettes and eventually had to dump them, but it strangled supply of OS/2.

> Lotus Notes -> Exchange

> Netware -> Windows NT and later Active Directory

Microsoft introduced a server that shared connections to Netware so that 100 clients could run to a 10 client licenced Netware server. This strangled Novell's revenue. They also announced that "the next version of Windows will not support Netware". This is why Novell bought DRI so they could give DR-DOS away with Netware to ensure there were supported clients.

Microsoft didn't take over a market by having a better product.

Re: So what did YOU do then ?

> All of these things mean that I cannot use GPL3 code, because it opens us up to potential legal action.

Just because some code is available with a GPL3 licence does not mean that it cannot be obtained with a different licence. Much GPLx code is available with a commercial licence. You may have to pay for it, but that may be exactly what is required.

Re: A fool without money will soon be ignored

> foaming-at-the-mouth zealotism and fanatism

Chair throwing, monkey dancing, "Developer, developers, developers, ..."

Re: they missed the boat on WP

> It seems to me the dumbest thing Microsoft did was murder the Netbook market. Here they had their software running on cheap devices that people actually wanted to buy so they artificially crippled them ...

Not quite. Netbooks were designed to be really cheap internet access devices: DVD player screen, cheap atom CPU, SD card 'disk', Linux to avoid Windows licence, and cater for small RAM size. Microsoft resurrected XP at a small price (because Vista had no way of running) so that they could threaten the discounts of 'unloyal' partners. But even this required bigger screens, hard disks, RAM, faster and more expensive CPU, to the point where small laptops were the same price.

Re: they missed the boat on WP

> this is as crazy as HP and Palm/WebOS.

To be fair to HP the dumping of WebOS was not their idea. Microsoft came along with WoA (Windows on ARM, later Windows RT) and pointed out that 'loyalty discounts' over _all_ Microsoft products depended on selling Windows on all possible products. It would be a shame if they lost hundreds of millions of dollars of discount in trying to sell some tablets.

It worked for netbooks.

> And the Pi 2 is a useful demo of an IoT type device that could make the idea more useful still,

While Windows IoT is another example of jumping on the band wagon it does not make it 'more useful'. A Pi, even the cheapest ones, can be useful as a complete computer (with Raspian or other) and can be used stand alone to develop 'normal' programs as well as ones that access the GPIO for sensors and motors. Microsoft requires a full Windows 10 PC to develop on while the 'Windows' Pi 2 only operates like a Arduino to run a single 'sketch' at a time. This also _requires_ it be a Pi 2, cheaper devices need not apply. If analogue input is required then a ($35) Pi 2 need an additional board (or an Arduino) to provide this. For many IoT jobs just the Arduino is required and these can be as cheap as $3 (for non-brand clones).

Also Microsoft is aiming IoT devices to communicate via Azure. Who wants to operate their lights or heating via servers possibly in another country ?

Many companies are developing products to give simple and cost effective solutions to linking 'intelligent' commodity products together. Microsoft is jumping on the band wagon to control and suck revenue from this market.

> panicking when he saw rivals bringing products to market, then trying desperately to rush out shoddy versions of them in order to compete.

That is what Microsoft has always done. Except between 'saw' and 'rush' they did 'vaporware' to slow down the market for 'saw'. Sometimes they simply bought rivals to shut them down. MS-DOS 1 was a shoddy version of CP/M or CP/M-86. Windows 1 was a shoddy version of Lisa/Mac and GEM. MS-DOS 5 was 20 months after DR-DOS 5.

Re: Linux Desktops?

> All businesses are emailing Word and Excel docs

And they should not be. doc and xls are not data exchange formats. They should be using an appropriate format such as PDF.

> MS Office is the foundation upon which modern businesses are built.

And they should not be. Businesses need to run order systems, inventory systems, payroll systems, purchasing systems, and many others. Using MS Office (or any other) as a mechanism for running a business is a very poor substitute.

Re: +1

> Bob only knows how to do it in Ubuntu and doesn't have a clue how to do it in Mint. This doesn't deter him and he manages to royally cock things up! Yes it's a very simplistic view but it gets the point across as to why businesses and people like to stick with Windows for the main part. People know it.

And the point you are making is exactly the issue about Windows 7, Windows 8.x and Windows 10.

Knowing how to do stuff in Win7 is no use at all when faced with 8 or 10.

Re: Year 7 = 11 years old

> The Pi is basically a cut-down desktop computer, so doesn't seem to have much value for anyone who already has a one.

No. It is a grown up IoT. It has a GPIO with digital and analogue IO so can be used with sensors and motors for all sorts of projects that are impossible for desktops. It can _also_ provide a full desktop facility so that development can be done onboard with direct access to the GPIO making it very suitable for prototyping.

> This is more of a bottom-up hardware device.

This does require a desktop to develop on, or a Pi.

> You'll get the best value out of it if people are writing in assembler.

Nonsense. Access to the IO is not an issue - libraries do that. Speed is not an issue for IoT or wearables.

Re: reminds me of visiting an MS store near SF

"with a corresponding cost to all businesses and their customers." - a vast amount of businesses and people have made a lot of money out of Microsoft. My career and finances certainly has benefited thanks to Bill (and to some degree Sir Clive and Furber & Wilson).

Many made millions working for Microsoft or as shareholders. You seemed to have made lots of money off Microsoft _customers_ and _users_ (rather than "out of Microsoft").

However, you do reinforce my point that there is a large cost to businesses that use Microsoft products and their customers, you have been part of that cost.

Re: reminds me of visiting an MS store near SF

> the world is not going to benefit from an Android/Apple duopoly.

Certainly the world has not benefited from a Windows/Apple duopoly. Any 'benefits' went to making Bill the richest man in world with a corresponding cost to all businesses and their customers.

It was Microsoft, via Elop, that helped create the alleged 'Android/Apple duopoly' by killing off Symbian, Maemo/Meego and everything else that Nokia was working on. But even then it is not a duopoly, there are many Android variants that are separate developments: Kindle, CyanogenMod, and many non-Google implementations. That was never allowed for Windows.

Re: Powers of two

> Lumia: 8 million

> Non-Lumia Microsoft: 24 million

> Total Winphone: 32 million

"""Microsoft's sales are lagging even those of Windows Phone partners: 8.6 million Lumias (Nokia) moved versus 24.7 million non-Lumias sold."""

No, there were not 32 million Windows Phones sold. The 24.7 million is the total smart phones, of all OS, sold by Microsoft WP partners. I was said that Nokia sold more than 90% of all WP and this is likely to have continued. So total Winphone is more like 9.4million.

> A software API is like a novel's plot.

Not at all. It is like chapter or section names: Preface, Introduction, Chapter 1, ... , Appendix, Index.

Re: Good idea

> If I want to run Ubuntu, I download a generic installation CD image, which will work with virtually any hardware.

No, it won't work with *any* hardware, it will only work with an x86-64 (a different version will work with x86) CPU, an IBM-PC clone BIOS (or UEFI) with PCI interfacing, a range of graphics cards and some other things. You seem to think that is what _every_ computer is. It happens that many are like that because they have become a commodity.

Some years ago it seemed that there would be greater variety with PPC, Alpha, MIPS, Itanium and others vying for top spot. There was also ACE as a spec. But AMD brought out x86-64 as a cheaper high performance chip and the others were forgotten.

ARM does not have a unified (ie like IBM-PC) BIOS to hide the implementation details yet so each ROM has to cater for the SoC differences.

> Do you remember that WfWG 3.11 was a single threaded (preemptive "multitasking"...

Certainly _not_ preemptive. It was co-operative, and often non-cooperative.

> GUI atop DOS, with no security at all, no concept of services/daemons, barely supporting simple networks, etc etc.? Software changed and improved a lot form those days, otherwise, think about what DOS was capable of doing in 640K RAM and 360K disks...

[MS-]DOS wasn't capable of very much at all. It needed applications to get anything useful done.

> Even the Raspbian image is a 990MB download (zipped).

Raspian is a full Linux distro and comes complete with a desktop GUI, servers, browser, applications and software development tools and everything else needed to work as a 'PC'.

> it's the price you have to pay to avoid to maintain n completely different versions of an OS.

As a comparison I can get a Linux distro that will boot off a 1.44 diskette and run as a firewall, SQL server, web server and other stuff.

Re: it runs GUI apps written for Microsoft's new Universal App Platform (UAP)

> What you're describing is the interfacing layer. If there is any intelligence at all on the "Thing" device, then that code will not be the totality of the application

Of course I am describing 'the interfacing layer', that is what the intelligence of the 'thing' is.

A dumb 'garage door opener' has a control board that drives the motor and responds to sensors. It may also respond to a remote control with an IR sensor or similar. An IoT garage door opener will have the dumb control board replaced by a RaspberryPi 'compute' module or an Arduino or similar that has Wifi or ethernet connection to the home network, and through this to the internet. The code on this will not only drive the opening and closing of the door and use sensors to stop, but may also detect any forcing of the door or other unusual conditions in order to send messages. It will respond to commands arriving on the network to show status, activate a sequence or other.

Your phone app will do _none_ of that. The phone app may connect and ask status, view history, (including notifications sent), and request open or close. The app running in your car may also, given that it gets to a certain GPS location, request an open or close. None of this is in the door opener.

> It is about distributing the intelligence to manage remote functions at the edge of the networks.

Exactly. The door opener (or light bulb, or fridge) _is_ the edge of the network, the intelligence is the Arduino or RaspberryPi compute module or similar.

You seem to want to distribute the 'intelligence' of _how_ the door should be opened and the sensors interpreted to your phone whereas the phone app should only need to send a 'please open' command and get back a status regardless of how that should be achieved.

The door and its RPi is the 'Thing'. It acts a server. The phone app (or car app, or other) is a client. There is almost no commonality of code - except the base OS and network stack. It is the same relationship as a web server and a web client - would you claim they are the same thing ?

Re: it runs GUI apps written for Microsoft's new Universal App Platform (UAP)

> That application will need the same protocol support as those controllers, and because the software that implements those controllers runs on Windows10, the monitoring app can use it too.

No they won't. The IoT app will be using the GPIO to drive the motors and sense the positions and probably other safety sensors. The phone app will just have an Up and a Down button and will send a signal to the IoT device. The IoT app may have an up and down button too - probably real buttons - and LEDs to signal faults or safety issues, also on the GPIO, but that will simply set the local signal to operate.

You seem to have a strange idea of what embedded systems and IoT are about. The whole point of running on Raspberry Pi, or other boards, is that it has these interfaces to control and sense the hardware directly.

Re: it runs GUI apps written for Microsoft's new Universal App Platform (UAP)

> No, they're not "very hardware specific",

The "hardware specific" refers to the type of devices the IoT app is intended to control or monitor - the "Things" in IoT. An app intended to monitor and control the air conditioning may have modules to work with different brands but it is unlikely to be useful for dealing with your garage door.

Neither of these examples would run on your phone or tablet because they wouldn't have the Arduino API nor the hardware: the analogue and/or digital ports needed.

Re: Why

> likewise if I am cold I run the heating,

Some, when cold, go out into the woods and chop down a few branches or split a few logs and stoke up the fire. Others have a thermostat that keeps the temperature at various settings depending on the time. For them having to 'run' the heating sounds like too much effort.

> For the outside living world it is only niche users, many of which will have their own unique user profile, who will really be interested.

That was said about mobile phones.

Many already have internet connected TVs and PVRs. From a manufacturers point of view the use of commodity standardised electronics will be no more expensive than semi-mechanical or propriety controls so it will be cost effective to include additional features even if you don't use them.

Re: Shambles

> Wouldn't it be nice to pull out a smartphone, unlock the screen, find the right app, and navigate multiple controls on a small screen instead?"

You've not heard of NFC then ?

> No manufacturer (except maybe a complete world monopoly) can afford to make a product inoperable on its own.

I am not sure that anyone suggested that. Strawman perhaps?

Re: Shambles

> The whole "Smart Home" thing seems like a solution in search of a problem to me. My house works fine as it is,

You are likely to have plenty of automated mechanisms in your home already. Your fridge maintains a steady temperature, you heating keeps a set room temperature, your video recorder records at set times. You may have a garage door that opens when you push a button on a remote in your car.

All those devices have some sort of programmable logic (even if it is semi-mechanical) and various different ways of setting the required parameters. IoT is based on the idea of having some sort of common controlling hardware (such as a RaspberryPi compute module or Arduino), a common way of setting parameters and communication so that the parameters can be reset and mechanisms activated.

If you wanted a garage door opener then you could choose a current model that requires a specific dedicated remote control, or you would be able to choose an IoT model that has the electronics handled by a small commodity CPU or Microcontroller (RPi or Arduino or such) that communicates to your home network. With the IoT version you would be able to use an app on your phone (suitably configured) to operate your door. Or if your car was connected and had GPS then entering a particular location (your driveway perhaps) could signal the door to operate.

Or just open the door yourself with no assistance, no one cares if you want to do that.

> If these corporations can't agree on a single open standard they will be having this very argument in 10 years time,

There is still no 'open standard' for remote controls, yet people still buy devices with remotes. It doesn't need a single standard. It may be useful to have a limited number of ways to get access from outside to the home network (with authentication) but I won't be using the 'oven' app on my phone to operate the video recorder; I don't need my garage door app to work with my neighbours doors - in fact it is better if they don't.

Re: @king of foo - Windows as a "Service"

> If I'm not mistaken Linux is not available on tablets/phones

You are mistaken. I have a Nokia N800 tablet with Maemo Linux. Others have been and are available. Android is a Linux distro, as is Tizen.

> and Android is not available on desktop/laptop PCs.

You are mistaken. Android can run on Netbook/Laptop, such as HP Slatebook, or desktops, or TV.

> Should I understand you're expecting Ubuntu to run on phones, tablets and PCs like Windows ?

Yes, why not ?

> The tricky bit is making sure every single 7 user gets to see there is a free update. As soon as they do the vast majority will click that button.

The other part of the announcement that there would be a 'free' update is that W10 will be SAAS (as a service). This will be similar to Office-as-a-service - an annual or monthly fee to keep it updated and keep it running.

W10 - the gift that keeps on taking !!