Posts by Jonathan

@AC

I'm pretty sure that was just Customer Disservice being stupid. Because if they arent, they lose any possibility that Phorm is legal under RIPA.

The thing is, as I see it, is if the customer is offered the choice, it could be argued that forms consent. If you dont, then they cant legally intercept your traffic. If I were you, I'd phone them up, ask to speak to a supervisor, and tell them that unless you are given the option to opt, you will a) switch to a different ISP, b) sue them. Hopefully such threats will jog their memory.

I'd also say that Phorm should have a bigger problem with websites. Now that website traffic can be intercepted, I imagine websites wont be too keen on the idea. Anything could be exposed, and Phorm has no right to intercept. As far as I understand RIPA, it requires consent from both parties, not just one.

@Graham Wood

True.

Although, I guess such an attack wouldnt be legal, and would probably lead to banned subscribers.

But, if the ISPs dont pull out because of negative press alone (and lost subscribers), I wouldnt be surprised if something like that were to arise.

@Stephen Baines

I'm very interested in cases like yours. As you say, you dont give permission for your conversations to be intercepted, so in order to be legal, BT Webwise would need to block your site to prevent interception. Something has got to give - I imagine BT's execs will realize its too much of a nightmare to implement solely because of the interception.

Hopefully Phorm's stock will bottom out some more, and hopefully its founder will lose everything he ever invested (including a lot of time!), and will come away a little wiser.

Word from bethere

I quite liked bethere when I used it in a previous house, so I contacted them to ask them about Phorm, to hlpe me make a decision in future. This is their response:

Thank you for contacting us.

We are not a part of the Phorm system and we are not even planning to be, so there will be nothing to worry about.

Regards,

Be Team

So, assuming this isnt the same kind of like that BT spouts, I think they at least, are in the clear.

I thought of something else though - what if someone wrote a program, that created random Phorm cookies, and made random requests. Distribute this program to a few addresses, and suddenly Phorm's database becomes far less relevant - it will now contain lots of redundant and useless information. Although, I guess it doesnt stop them profiling people.

More lies...

Quote: MB, this article

MB: What happens is that the data is still mirrored to the profiler but the data digest is never made and the rest of the chain never occurs. It ought to be said that the profiler is operated by the ISP, not us.

Quote: MB, http://www.badphorm.co.uk/page.php?10

TheObserver: So if you opt out your data never touches a Phorm server? This is at odds with much coverage, which suggests the data still goes to your server but you discard it if the opt-out cookie is present.

MBurgess: Yes. There is widespread misunderstanding of how the system works, which is why we are keen to set the record straight...

He contradicts himself, saying in this article that your data does in fact always touch Phorm, and then in another, that it only does if you opt in. Which is it?

Myself, with the way these guys have been acting, I'm inclined to believe that the worse of the two cases, ie that your packets always get intercepted by Phorm, is true.

Perhaps Phorm doesnt understand that, in many people's eyes, Adware is only one step above malware. I dont care what its there for, I care that it shouldnt be there, it intercepts private data.

Its funny how on BT's website, they try to bury the bad news that your every browsing move and search term will be monitored, by harping on the anti phishing protection. Gee, funny that, perhaps the general public isnt crazy about excessive adverts and privacy intrusions, fancy that. They already know the public wont be crazy about the idea, yet they go ahead, and even worse, they lie about it, and get caught.

This makes me think, that the next time I shop for a new ISP, I'll be looking for one that is fast, has as little downtime as possible, a declaration stating that they do not and will never have any dealings with Phorm or any of its affiliates, or any similar schemes which aim to intercept or in any way monitor by browsing.

Oh, and if we use targeted advertising, we will see less adverts? What is he on? Less adverts means less possible revenue - why would you remove adverts? You can have more targeted adverts. This will only lead to a very slippery slope, and makes me glad that I exlusively use Firefox with Adblocker Plus installed.