back to article What could be more embarrassing for a Russian spy: Their info splashed online – or that they drive a Lada?

It has been a busy week for Russian military intelligence – and it's about to get busier. A database search of car registrations appears to have outed more than 300 GRU agents. Following Thursday's report from Dutch and British authorities of a thwarted hacking attack involving four Russian nationals alleged to be officers in …

  1. Adrian 4

    But isn't outing a spy illegal under the GDPR ?

    1. This post has been deleted by its author

    2. el kabong

      If the spy is living in the EU...

      then yes, it is illegal under the GDPR.

      Unless the spy has given you explicit permission to out him.

      1. Tom Paine

        Re: If the spy is living in the EU...

        I thought there were the usual national security exemptions in GDPR?

        1. el kabong

          Security exemptions

          Those are special cases and special cases fall under special laws. The GDPR is a general law, a special law can never go against a general law. I'm pretty confident the GDPR legislators left ample room for adequate special laws.

          1. Stuart Castle Silver badge

            Re: Security exemptions

            IIRC, the original Data Protection Act (1984) specifically did not apply to situations where National Security may be involved. I'd be surprised if GDPR didn't have the same exemptions.

            1. Spazturtle Silver badge

              Re: Security exemptions

              GDPR does have exemptions, you cannot ask for your criminal record to be deleted for example.

        2. Ken 16 Silver badge
          Trollface

          Re: If the spy is living in the EU...

          you're right, best wait until April 2019 when the UK becomes a 3rd country and can't take advantage of those exemptions

    3. Sabot

      Only if the spy is a citizen of the EU.

      1. Joe W Silver badge

        The EU is not the USA. Here, privacy laws are applicable if you are in the EU, not only for citizens. In fact, this applies for all and any law, which makes sense. The laws of the country you are in apply...

    4. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      >But isn't outing a spy illegal under the GDPR ?

      Only Stasi members of the former GDDR

    5. Danny 14

      bellingcat are journalists i presume so exempt from disclosing data with journalistic merit.

      newspapers wouldnt be able to print, well, news otherwise.

      1. veti Silver badge

        In most countries, journalists don't have any special privileges. If they can do it, so can you.

        US law, for instance, allows "journalists" to claim limited immunity for not giving up the name of a source. But the kicker is, there is no real definitive description of "journalist". If you, as a private individual, want to claim that you were acting "as a journalist" when you made that blog post, you can.

        (This is a necessary consequence of the First Amendment, which makes it illegal for the government to pass a law saying "these are the criteria for being a journalist".)

        In Russia... I don't know, but I imagine people who pull this kind of stunt when the Kremliin doesn't want them to, are running considerable risks that have nothing to do with the courts.

        1. Adam 1

          > I imagine people who pull this kind of stunt when the Kremliin doesn't want them to, are running considerable risks that have nothing to do with the courts.

          Quite. Especially when the folks that you've outed have just been caught attempting to kill a former spy with a chemical weapon visiting cathedrals with historically interesting spires.

    6. Loyal Commenter Silver badge

      Russia isn't part of the EU, despite what Jeremy Hunt might have you think.

  2. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    Not unless Russia is part of the EU.

    Which I'm sure they'll claim if it fits their story.

    1. el kabong

      No need for Russia to be a part of the EU

      The spy only needs to live legally in the EU in order to get full protection under the GDPR.

      1. JohnG

        Re: No need for Russia to be a part of the EU

        "The spy only needs to live legally in the EU in order to get full protection under the GDPR."

        Yes - but according to their car registration data, these alleged spies all claim to live at GRU premises in Moscow, which is key to the gist of this story.

    2. Tom Paine

      Nope - you are mistaken - in principle, a citizen of Russia (or any other non-EU citizen) is covered by GDPR as long as they're residing in an EU member state.

      1. sprograms

        Yes, but residing in the EU under a false name?

    3. Version 1.0 Silver badge

      "Not unless Russia is part of the EU." - they missed their chance with BREXIT .... heads will roll.

    4. Rich 11

      Not unless Russia is part of the EU

      According to the analysis of our hugely experienced and big-brained foreign secretary, Mr Cunt, they're both part of the EUSSR and are out to get us anyway.

  3. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    Komsomolsky 20 is listed as the location of the College of Bandmasters of the MoD University and a bunch of other academic divisions of said University (including prep classes), Hmmmm.... Is that where all those names in the indictments come from?

    1. sprograms

      Komsomolsky 20 is also, apparently, the HQ of the "I wish I had an Aston Martin Society."

      1. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        "Komsomolsky 20 is also, apparently, the HQ of the "I wish I had an Aston Martin Society."

        Surely after years of Socialism and Ladas they would be wanting reliable cars?

        1. Anonymous Coward
          Anonymous Coward

          6 downvotes and counting

          Aston Martin reliability

          I wonder how many of those downvotes came from actual A-M owners?

          AFAIK the aspirational cars for non-oligarch Russians are Toyotas, because of reliability. Aston Martin really don't make daily drivers for Russian winter conditions.

          1. jmch Silver badge

            Re: 6 downvotes and counting

            Re Aston Martin reliability - from the site you linked to :"The UK Reliability index takes into account all factors of a repair, the *cost of the parts* and the frequency of failures"

            Including repair cost as a factor is probably why Aston Martin are in the worst 3 together with Bentley and maserati, with generally more expensive cars showing as least reliable, with Daihatsu and Suzuki the most. But that's not what reliability means. The real measure should be number of breakdowns per distance driven or garage days per distance driven.

            Note I'm not claiming Astons are reliable or otherwise, just that the measure on the site you linked to is flawed.

            1. ElReg!comments!Pierre

              Re: 6 downvotes and counting

              Reminds me of an old joke. You know why rich people drive Jags, but REALLY rich people drive Bentleys ? Well, everyone can own ONE expensive car, but maintaining a rolling fleet of three and having a mechanic on the payroll is what real money is for...

              1. Mike Moyle

                Re: 6 downvotes and counting

                "Reminds me of an old joke. You know why rich people drive Jags, but REALLY rich people drive Bentleys ? Well, everyone can own ONE expensive car, but maintaining a rolling fleet of three and having a mechanic on the payroll is what real money is for..."

                A friend owns and operates an auto service company here in the States that specializes in Bentleys, Rolls-Royces, Land Rovers, and Jaguars, as well as Mercedes and BMWs. He has often said "If you know 30 people who own British cars, you've got a reliable monthly income."

                1. Lotaresco

                  Re: 6 downvotes and counting

                  "A friend owns and operates an auto service company here in the States that specializes in Bentleys, Rolls-Royces, Land Rovers, and Jaguars, as well as Mercedes and BMWs. He has often said 'If you know 30 people who own British cars, you've got a reliable monthly income.'"

                  None of the cars that you list are British. German, German, Indian, Indian, German, German. Now, if he had a Morgan franchise...

                  1. ElReg!comments!Pierre

                    Re: 6 downvotes and counting

                    On a related note, in Canada US (GM) cars are generally rated as having a 5-years life expectancy - roughly half that of any other car...

                2. ElReg!comments!Pierre

                  Re: 6 downvotes and counting

                  > If you know 30 people who own British cars, you've got a reliable monthly income.

                  Coming from the land of HD Motors, AKA "Our bikes need a supertanker on hold for your daily gas needs -and don't you forget your twice monthly servicing", that's a bit rich ! Even the now "resting" (in the Monthy Python's parrot way) Brit motorbike industry was never that bad !

            2. Anonymous Coward
              Anonymous Coward

              Re: 6 downvotes and counting -@jmch

              The site lists the commonest problems with A-Ms.

              I know this goes back a long way, but when I was growing up a neighbour bought one of the first ones with fuel injection. He complained it went out of tune so quickly it really needed weekly adjustment, and eventually turned it in for the previous model.

              The problem with finding actual reliability data is that there are not enough of them to give meaningful statistics for people like J D Power.

            3. Anonymous Coward
              Anonymous Coward

              Re: 6 downvotes and counting

              Note I'm not claiming Astons are reliable or otherwise, just that the measure on the site you linked to is flawed.

              I'd argue the methodology is f*cking idiotic. After all, if you can afford an Aston you can afford the repairs. You don't generally by one and ask about fixed price servicing. Frequency of occurrence and severity are important. My guess would be they are proxying severity with cost.

      2. Fruit and Nutcase Silver badge

        "Komsomolsky 20 is also, apparently, the HQ of the "I wish I had an Aston Martin Society."

        85 Albert Embankment is the HQ of the "I have an Aston Martin Society". It is a well known fact the world over that the venue is frequented by a bloke driving an Aston Martin with a Union Flag painted on the roof. He has also been "spotted" in various drinking establishments in and around Chancery Lane, wearing his trademark DJ with a drink of Vodka Martini in hand.

        https://regmedia.co.uk/2013/06/28/bonds.jpg

    2. Mark 85

      So the Bandmasters did it?

      1. ElReg!comments!Pierre

        Well, 2 pissibilities here

        -GRU registered a car for one of its agents using a spoofed innocuous adress

        -GRU set up a fake huge uni campus complete with fake students and fake profs and fake janitors etc to centrally register all its vehiclesn using it's agents real names.

        I know which would make the best Bond movie !

        1. Muppet Boss

          Re: Well, 2 pissibilities here

          >-GRU set up a fake huge uni campus complete with fake students and fake profs and fake janitors etc to centrally register all its vehiclesn using it's agents real names.

          >I know which would make the best Bond movie !

          Don't forget about paper taxi receipts in their pockets, next to the paper license to kill, to keep the GRU accounting happy!

          Many of them come from outside Moscow and they have to register their car using a Moscow address. Registering using an "important" address does help dealing with road police but for many of them renting flats there is no choice because of the way how the system works, either register using a work address or register using their "permanent" residential address outside Moscow and drive car there every year to do the MOT. Like to Siberia.

    3. John Deeb

      Yes, Bellingcat is in the business of imaginary hype news nowadays and the Register gladly echoes it without any trace of reservation or cynicism. Come one, "university based car registrations"! More likely some administrative thing for sharing cars among campus (it's in the end a former communist state, with a stronger communal administrative mindset than we are familiar with in the West).

      And it's not really a spy school either, these are fairly large universities involving more general studies. What relevance does it even have to the case? The logic is missing.

      1. K

        Must admit I'm not that familiar with Bellingcat - But I call BS on your theory, what they ousted about the 2 "possible" GRU agents that went to Salisbury, even the BBC has gotten involved and found associated evidence: https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-45694123

        I understand there is a movement in the UK and abroad that doesn't believe the mainstream story surrounding this. Ironically my next door neighbor is one of them, in his word "Do you really think the russians would come here to do that? when they could have just assassinated him when he was in russia, or made it look like an accident with a hit and run".

        Usually, I'm the first person to call BS on politicians, but in all honesty, I believe this. The Russians have had a lot of success, where the West turned a blind eye, because it was too focused on "terrorism" and distracted by the US's new Boogeyman (China) - So I can easily see the GRU has started to see it self as untouchable - By going public with type of information, it removes the GRU's anonymity and their ability to operate (eventually, then'll run out of agents!)

        1. Dave Bell

          The Spy Game is changing

          Some of this may be things that used to work, which fail badly with new methods being applied since the Cold War. Consider things such as biometric data on modern passports, which is hard to fake. And we have fingerprint sensors on some of our phones. Some Russian Spies, in the old days, managed to use more than one identity, and not every one can have been identified. We're reaching a point where the document isn't use-once, it's the human.

          One thing we know is that here in the UK, we were very good at catching enemy agents and persuading them to work for us. And that depended on being very careful about revealing what we knew. It's possibly why some things were not reported to the politicians. So, through a lot of hard work, we identified two Russian agents. We stood a good chance of being able to spot them crossing a border, whatever documents they used, and that could have given away something else.

          What is going on?

          1. Tom Chiverton 1

            Re: The Spy Game is changing

            You don't need to fake the passport biometric. Just the identity it's linked to. Hand matches passport, all is good.

          2. fajensen
            Holmes

            Re: The Spy Game is changing

            One thing we know is that here in the UK, we were very good at catching enemy agents and persuading them to work for us.

            What is going on is that the UK and allies realised that the current crop of potential double-agents, just so neatly being served up just for the taking, are generally a bunch of bums that will only drain ressources and cannot be relived upon anything except to create vast troubles for The West, like, f.ex. Rafid Ahmed Alwan al-Janabi (codeword "Curveball"), Ahmed Chalabi and probably numerous others that we have not heard about yet.

            See? Putins security state really *wanted* Western Intelligence to arrest and "turn" all of these non-performing agents into "assets", thus keeping "us" busy with nothing (at best) for a decade or more, with luck getting us into another debacle in the middle east or Asia.

            Except, Our Side smelled the ruse and blew the setup onto the Internet, thus leaving the Russians stuck with their deadwood (and blocking the path for "our" representatives using one of them to get "us" into another stupid adventure).

            Maybe our intelligence services are smarter than they appear to be?

        2. Jellied Eel Silver badge

          Murder investigation

          I understand there is a movement in the UK and abroad that doesn't believe the mainstream story surrounding this.

          And.. should we? Currently the police and security services are undergoing a major investigation into the murder of one person, and the attempted murder of 4 others. Plus unauthorised appliaction of a WMD, or just chemical weapon.

          They have the apparent identity of the Salisbury tourists from their visas and passports. The media is merrily speculating on who might have done it, and potentially muddying the waters. Or just reducing the current suspect's likelihood of a fair trial.. In the unlikely event that they could be extradited to the UK to face trial. If the tourists are innocent though, I guess they've got a pretty good shot at defamation against media that's accused them.

  4. FuzzyWuzzys
    Facepalm

    "The (Karl) Marx Brothers"?

    Sounds like the Ruskies have been studying such great Western culture as "Spies Like Us" and "The Piglet Files" as references to how to run a secret service organisation! What a bunch of muppets!

    1. I3N
      Happy

      Re: "The (Karl) Marx Brothers"?

      :) ...

      z

    2. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: "The (Karl) Marx Brothers"?

      "Sounds like the Ruskies have been studying such great Western culture as "Spies Like Us" and "The Piglet Files" as references to how to run a secret service organisation! What a bunch of muppets!"

      Apparently a lot of the Russians who saw the interviews with the Salisbury tourists (which were shown in full on Russian television) were very relieved to discover that the security services are just as competent as ever.

      In considering the success of Soviet spying one has to consider that Philby was English, Sorge was German, and Karla was imaginary.

  5. Wellyboot Silver badge
    Coat

    Or

    It's a really good address to have when the ordinary Russian plod pulls you over..

    Its the one with 'nothing' in the pockets

    1. JohnG

      Re: Or

      "It's a really good address to have when the ordinary Russian plod pulls you over.."

      It's like a "get out of jail" card when driving in Russia but could be a "get arrested and deported" card elsewhere.

      1. Mike 16

        Re: Or

        --- It's like a "get out of jail" card when driving in Russia but could be a "get arrested and deported" card elsewhere. ---

        What spy, or spy-wannabe, has only one set of ID?

        1. JohnG

          Re: Or

          "What spy, or spy-wannabe, has only one set of ID?"

          Having several sets of ID is useless if you can be found on a publicly accessible car registration database, because you chose to register your car at spy HQ, so you could get out of traffic fines.

  6. mark l 2 Silver badge

    When I visited Russia in about 4 years ago there were still plenty of Lada cars driving around. Some of them looked quite new though so I think they must have continued to produce them well after they stopped selling them in the west.

    Although judging by the state of some of the cars I suspect that there is no such thing as an MOT in Russia and a lot of people keep on driving old cars until they fail completely or cost to much money to fix.

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      @mark i 2

      Ladas were originally Fiat-Russian and are now Renault owned. I think the last Soviet-era looking Lada was produced till about 2010. The East German factory manager I knew in the early 90s had one till he emigrated to the West and drove it to France and back when the Wall came down; they were designed to be serviced by the kind of people who owned them (i.e. taxi drivers, engineers and mechanics) and lasted a long time if looked after.

      They were better made than the Ural a friend rather foolishly bought which kept losing compression till he discovered the cylinder studs were made of mild steel and kept stretching.

      1. Mike 16

        Re: @mark i 2

        -- They were better made than the Ural a friend rather foolishly bought which kept losing compression till he discovered the cylinder studs were made of mild steel and kept stretching. --

        Should have bought a Marusho, if he definitely wanted a not-BMW. :-)

        1. Anonymous Coward
          Anonymous Coward

          Re: @mark i 2

          "Should have bought a Marusho, if he definitely wanted a not-BMW. :-)"

          Now I've looked it up, seen a BMW copy prettier than an actual BMW, and I want one.

      2. Lotaresco

        Re: @mark i 2

        "They were better made than the Ural a friend rather foolishly bought"

        The Belgian Lada distributor also sells UAZ trucks, for incredibly high prices. Crash protection, none. Design fossilised about 1947. I can't imagine that they sell many of them.

  7. herman

    A Lada is OK. What if the poor guy was stuck with a Moskvich?

    1. Neil Barnes Silver badge

      Isn't that the one that comes with a toolkit? A hammer and a sickle...

    2. Muppet Boss

      They will not go for anything less than BMW X5 or Mercedes GL-Class these days. Maybe will consider an Aurus.

  8. Geoffrey W

    Whats wrong with a Lada? I'd be embarrassed if I drove a Ferrari or a Lamborghini...Someone might think I was a banker or some other leech like creature...Beelzebub forbid.

  9. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    After the farcical “identification” of one of the Salisbury accused with a GRU agent by bellingcat, why would anyone believe anything from him? Clearly the two gentlemen are different, or did the GRU agent patriotically have his ears pinned back for the operation?

    Also actual imagery experts have questioned the accuracy of bellingcat’s imagery analysis which shot him to fame.

    1. Mephistro
      Devil

      "...did the GRU agent patriotically have his ears pinned back for the operation?"

      In case you haven't noticed, people with sticky-out ears have almost vanished since the popularization of Superglue.

      8^)

    2. julian_n

      Not to mention having had his skull reshaped with a bit lopped off the sides and put on the top whilst pushing his eyes further apart.

    3. Pat Att

      Niet

      "After the farcical “identification” of one of the Salisbury accused with a GRU agent by bellingcat, why would anyone believe anything from him? "

      What's the weather like in Moscow at the moment?

  10. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    True story. Last winter I was visiting Central Asia – one of the very cold republics. I saw about half a dozen BMWs being fixed on the side of the road and started with a Lada. No stranded Ladas at all, they seemed to go well in the very cold (-30 celicius).

    1. Mephistro

      My younger brother, a car mechanic, owned a Lada for several years that he bought when he was 21 or so. He swore BY his Lada Niva (instead of AT it 8^), as it was trustworthy and easy to repair, and very good at going cross country. In the end, he ditched it due to the fuel it guzzled.

    2. Korev Silver badge

      > I saw about half a dozen BMWs being fixed on the side of the road

      Every time it snows in the UK, many BMW owners find that rear wheel drive cars don't behave very well in the snow and have to leave them by the road...

      1. Yet Another Hierachial Anonynmous Coward

        No - they usually park them sideways in the ditch at the side of the road - next to the mercedes.

        1. Mark 65

          I'm guessing the Audis, especially quattro variety, are still about 1 inch from the car in front.

  11. arctic_haze

    An important lesson comes from this story

    Being evil does not make you competent.

    1. Antonius_Prime
      Big Brother

      Re: An important lesson comes from this story

      No, but appearing to be incompetent at being evil; and being caught and thought to be incompetent, will aid when you want to do actual evil competently elsewhere.

      The thing to think of is: How to take the UK out of the international running right now? Make it look like Russia was involved in Brexit. Thin the herd of a few useless agents with a hope they may pop a known detractor off. They're expendable. It's a win-win scenario.

      Using the knowledge that, frankly, the UK will muck up Brexit completely unaided, all they have to do is appear to be mucking around, get a few deadwood chaps caught to make it look like their not very good at this whole international spy thing, maybe off a detractor.

      Honestly; it's a Xanathos Gambit!

      https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/XanatosGambit

      (I'd apologise for people getting caught on a TV Tropes wiki hole, but frankly, they should know what they're doing, reading The Reg!)

  12. danR2

    The sad thing is

    100+ GRU agents driving the same Lada. That would be some rotating car-pool. Monday: 3 in the front, 7 in the back, "...Igor, Maxim, Sergei, Boris; you're in the trunk."

    "Oh Shitski, again‽ "

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: The sad thing is

      I once worked with a sales outfit where the salesperson who dinged his company car would be driving the rusty company Lada while his normal car was in the shop.

    2. DropBear

      Re: The sad thing is

      Oh my, is that truly the rare sight of a wild interrobang in its natural habitat...?

  13. Lotaresco

    Hmmmm

    I'm thinking of buying a Lada, I wonder if this will instantly identify me as a Russian spy? After what feels like a very long absence from the European market, because they couldn't meet emissions standards, the Lada 4x4 is back on sale in Germany and Belgium. They are are great rough and ready alternative to the Faux by Fours sold by the major manufacturers.

    Lada Niva, Germany

  14. wolfetone Silver badge

    I'm actually going to buy a Lada before Brexit kicks in, just so that no one will cut me up for the fear I'm a Russian spy who'll Novichok them.

    1. Fruit and Nutcase Silver badge
      1. wolfetone Silver badge

        Re: Lada...

        I know. I see them come up on eBay for over £2,000, but a lad at work showed me the Hungarian eBay and they go for about €150.

  15. Danny 2

    Electric Trabant acid test

    I got on the wrong train and ended up behind the Iron Curtain by mistake.

    It was just after the Berlin Wall fell, and some West Germans were being allowed into East Germany, but no Brits were. We were allowed into Czechoslovakia, and not speaking German I boarded a train labelled Praag. An entrepreneurial ticket inspector demanded money for a handwritten note, which presumably read, "This lad is an idiot and he has money".

    It dawdled all through East Germany, and by the time it got to Dresden I realised this was worse than the time I accidentally got a train to Falkirk. Karl Marx Staadt at night was an industrial dystopia.

    The road traffic was a political metaphor - BMWs speeding past Trabants. Trabants were like Ladas, but coal-powered judging from their exhaust emissions.

    I got to the Czech border and was marched off the train by two burly Czech soldiers with furry hats and AK-47s. They ignored me telling them in English and French that I was allowed there and waved me back to the East Germany station 100m back. A pretty female East German border guard drew her pistol and waved me back towards Czechoslovakia. I pointed at her, then at her pistol, then at the two Czech soldiers and at their rifles and then threw up my hands in the universal sign of befuddled idiocy.

    She told me through irate German and pointing at maps that I could remain but I had to go straight to Berlin. I ignored her and got on the same train I'd just been on it's return journey to Munich.

    Two days without eating or sleeping and I was beginning to hallucinate, and when I finally got to Munich I met the first English speaking East German on my journey.

    I heard a while back the Trabant was going to be revived as an electric car which kind of makes sense because it was so small and light it'd probably run off AAA batteries.

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