back to article What happens to your online accounts when you die?

What happens to the numerous user logins you've accumulated after you die or become too infirm to manipulate a keyboard? Some people have a plan, the digital equivalent of living will, or have chosen "family" option in a password management package such as LastPass or have entrusted a book of passwords to a family member. But …

  1. Zog_but_not_the_first
    Devil

    IMHO

    "That’s because you’re buying into a licence to use a thing, as opposed to buying the thing itself."

    This is the Devil's work of the 21C

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      America 'Fall-Of-Rome' moment:

      "Americans Own Less Stuff, and That’s Reason to Be Nervous What happens when a nation built on the concept of individual property ownership starts to give that up?"

      https://www.bloomberg.com/view/articles/2018-08-12/american-ownership-society-is-changing-thanks-to-technology

      1. Steve Davies 3 Silver badge

        Re: America 'Fall-Of-Rome' moment:

        There is an interesting bit on this on the BBC.

        https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-44829976

        Dave Lee describes how his life in the USA is virtually free from posessions.

        Owning nowt means that only the mega corps will own anything. Ownership is power.

        1. Roland6 Silver badge

          Re: America 'Fall-Of-Rome' moment:

          >Owning nowt means that only the mega corps will own anything.

          Yes the one thing missing from Dave Lee's piece is the monthly pay cheque that enables much of this; stop getting the monthly pay cheque and suddenly owning nothing but a whole bunch of monthly payments becomes a lot less attractive. So the subscription model helps to keep everyone busy looking out for the next pay cheque rather than watching what the mega corps are doing...

          1. Anonymous Coward
            Anonymous Coward

            Re: The search for the pay cheque

            You make a good point.

            What happens not if but when the Robot takes your job and the income stops?

            You lose your job, all your stuff that your leased on the 'never never' gets taken away and you have nothing to sell to delay the inevitable 'get out of my house' eviction. Property prices will drop by 90%.

            We are heading for a huge meltdown in society.

            We won't have a few tens of thousands living on the streets, it will be 40%-70% (at least) of the population.

            The 'have's' will zoom by in their Level 5 flying pods totally ignorant of the plight of the rest of us.

            The end is nigh.

            We are doomed.

            The majority of the population will have no money to buy anything including food.

            Vive la Revolution.

      2. Doctor Syntax Silver badge

        Re: America 'Fall-Of-Rome' moment:

        "Americans Own Less Stuff, and That’s Reason to Be Nervous What happens when a nation built on the concept of individual property ownership starts to give that up?"

        Some of the stuff the linked article lists as objects you own are ephemera - most people don't keep the newspapers or magazines they bought - today's news is tomorrow's chip wrapper. Books are more likely to be kept but personally, I'm about to send a consignment to the local charity bookshop.

        Even the more solid stuff like furniture can have a finite life. Whilst the extremely solid oak bookcase we bought years ago and has been dragged after us round two countries is by now a potentially valuable antique; the Ikea bookshelves are never going to achieve that status.

        The thing I really find interesting is the discussion of ultimate lack of ownership of iThings, Office 365 etc as Apple and other vendors can control the fate of them by controlling their subscription software. In contrast here I am, with my Linux kit, LibreOffice etc., all that stuff which its more extreme critics used to label communist, in undisputed private ownership of my own stuff. Does that make me a capitalist instead of a neo-feudal villein?

        1. Anonymous Coward
          Anonymous Coward

          Re: America 'Fall-Of-Rome' moment:

          "iThings, Office 365 etc as Apple and other vendors can control the fate of them by controlling their subscription software. "

          You seem to have omitted systemd from that list.

          Others have chosen to omit systemd from their systems. And for good reason.

      3. Oh Homer
        Meh

        Society devolving back to feudalism

        Not just in America, but pretty much everywhere, we're becoming a society of tenant serfs who never really get to own anything, but only have the temporarily privilege of using things in exchange for labour. The only difference between now and the days of actual feudalism is that today this exchange is usually indirect - i.e. you work for one entity, but use the money earned from that to pay the "rental" fees for, increasingly, your entire existence - not just your home. More direct examples include prostituting yourself to advertising in exchange for "free" apps and online services, again none of which you own or have any control over (a fact that will only bother you when they pull the plug, or when they ban/demonetise/censor you for violating their arbitrary "terms").

        And the primary driving force behind this devolution is intellectual monopoly. It's literally enslaving us.

        This bothers me in principle, because the idea of working for nothing but the ability to pay bills is not only utterly demoralising but literally slavery. In practice it'd bother me more if I had children, because I'd be painfully aware that not only would they be born into this slavery but I'd also have nothing to bequeath them, since you can't bequeath rented property.

        But as someone with no children, and frankly unlikely to ever have any, whatever little property I have will simply end up in a landfill site when I die anyway, so it's probably pointless me having any. I certainly won't be in a position to care about what happens to my digital footprint after I'm gone.

        I would hope that would not apply to most people.

        1. bombastic bob Silver badge
          Devil

          Re: Society devolving back to feudalism

          "And the primary driving force behind this devolution is intellectual monopoly."

          no, it's the willingness of people to surrender a part of their freedom to others, i.e. to "the elite", whether it's governments or corporations. Certain "evil" corporations are only just a PART of that, when driven by motives that are NOT "give the customer what he wants and make a profit". When it becomes "drive the customer to do what WE want, and make them PAY US FOR IT" - that's the problem.

          Right, Microsoft?

          1. Danny 14

            Re: Society devolving back to feudalism

            there are accounts that need to be passed on though. Think of online insurance portals, my other half is covered under my car insurance for example. Or the family annual holiday insurance. Netflix is another and so is the gas and leccy. Plenty are "in my name" for the online account but not necessarily in just my name for the ownership.

            1. DavCrav

              Re: Society devolving back to feudalism

              "there are accounts that need to be passed on though. Think of online insurance portals, my other half is covered under my car insurance for example. Or the family annual holiday insurance. Netflix is another and so is the gas and leccy. Plenty are "in my name" for the online account but not necessarily in just my name for the ownership."

              It's not obvious to me that car insurance, even if it covers two people, is transferable upon the death of the person who signed the contract. Unless you both signed it, which I don't think you did, because that's not how insurance normally works.

    2. K

      Re: IMHO

      "That’s because you’re buying into a licence to use a thing, as opposed to buying the thing itself." ...

      Unless you purchased it as a subscription, then that B$, the argument here ultimately exactly the same as used-games and used-DVDs.

      If I have paid for a product, which has supplied a physical media or downloadable copy of content (that I can store).. then I own that particular copy of that product. In which case, upon my death, I will hand ownership of that, to whoever I please. As for digital products, such as Steam, then ownership of this account will transfer to my Kin.

      1. Steve the Cynic

        Re: IMHO

        If I have paid for a product, which has supplied a physical media or downloadable copy of content (that I can store).. then I own that particular copy of that product. In which case, upon my death, I will hand ownership of that, to whoever I please.

        Be aware that if it's an Apple app store buy, they will absolutely NOT transfer the purchase from the deceased's account to a living person's, not even if you can produce the relevant death certificate. YMMV with Google Play.

        1. macjules

          Re: IMHO

          Thank you for the advice. Was about to try that with Apple regarding a deceased relative. They didn't event return the enquiry.

      2. Doctor Syntax Silver badge

        Re: IMHO

        "If I have paid for a product, which has supplied a physical media or downloadable copy of content (that I can store)"

        The physical medium the product was supplied on you own. You own the physical medium on which you stored the download although your use of the download itself maybe defined by the terms you agreed to (possibly without reading) before the server would deign to start the download; in this case your rights to pass on the stored download might be less than you assumed. A product which is streamed is going to be subject to T&Cs which forbid you from capturing it even if DRM doesn't prevent you from physically doing so.

        The T&Cs will determine whether you can legally pass any of that onto your kin or anyone else.

    3. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: IMHO

      Strictly speaking, this has been the case for a long time, at least as far as software, movies and music go.

      It's just that in the past they had no way of enforcing it because there was no connection between them and the item you "bought". Now...there is and they can and they will.

    4. GnuTzu

      Re: IMHO -- The Subscription Model

      Microsoft and others are tired of gambling on who will upgrade. The subscription model is simply guaranteed automatic upgrade, which is effectively forced on the users--reducing the gamble for the provider and also reducing the users free market influence.

      But, then I'm one of those who has been traumatized by every Windows upgrade that employers put us through.

    5. BillG
      Joke

      What About The Pron On Your Computer?

      Clip from The Man Show - cleaning up after you die for the single guy:

      The Rest Assured service - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H_QA7M2vQBw

      "Your family will remember you by what you've left behind... when you're gone, it's too late to hide any evidence of your hedonistic lifestyle (get that goat off the bed!)"

    6. pɹɐʍoɔ snoɯʎuouɐ
      Pirate

      Re: IMHO

      "That’s because you’re buying into a licence to use a thing, as opposed to buying the thing itself."

      Thats why I will not buy any music or movies that don't come with physical media. I read a while back about someone who had several thousands of pounds worth of music on iTunes and after they died a family member who tried to claim the departeds music collection was left to them, Itunes promptly informed them that the licences were not transferable and locked the account.

      Its something that I tell everyone when buying music from itunes or similar.

    7. Tim 11

      Re: IMHO

      I'm not sure I see it as so much of a problem.

      The world is changing fast and your kids don't like the same music/movies/games as you and generally don't want to *own* digital content in the same way older generations are interested in owning things. In fact, apart from houses and the odd sentimental keepsake, I reckon people will be increasingly less interested in inheriting things from their parents at all.

  2. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    Scam

    As far as I know Facebook has not extended it's reach to heaven or hell, though they probably have made good inroads to the latter.

    If I got a message from a dead relative I think that I would be rather more likely to categorize it as a scam than a message from beyond the grave.

    1. GnuTzu

      Re: Scam

      "If I got a message from a dead relative I think that I would be rather more likely to categorize it as a scam"

      However rational you are, the insensitivity of scammers will not likely be a comfort to you. If you are like me, it will only fuel your pessimism about the future of humanity.

      1. Steve the Cynic

        Re: Scam

        However rational you are, the insensitivity of scammers will not likely be a comfort to you. If you are like me, it will only fuel your pessimism about the future of humanity.

        In my case it was the insensitivity of ordinary sites that, after I asked to no longer pay the monthly charge for the product for my late wife (and said why), sent a "Please come back" plea to her email address. I was coldly polite about it (including pointing out that I had my own subscription to their service and therefore didn't need to use hers, and got an apologetic and understanding email from an actual human, and nothing further from them to Mrs Cynic's email.

        The worst was Elsevier, the scientific journal publisher. It took me ages and ages to convince them to stop sending stuff, since any one "unsubscribe" unsubscribed from only that one thing.

        And I already have a surfeit of pessimism about the future of humanity, thanks.

  3. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    Get a Power of Attorney

    before it is too late.

    I'm struggling with getting just over a £100 back from Mastercard on my Mothers account. Due to the onset of dementure, she paid her bill twice. Now and because she would not sign a power of Attorney, they won't pay the money into her bank account (at the same bank as the card issuer).

    It looks like I'm going to have to wait until I have a death certificate to get the money from them.

    The whole thing with situations like this and online accounts is a frigging nightmare. And it will only get worse.

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: Get a Power of Attorney

      Sad situation, but the same a friend of mine is experiencing - his wife has Alzheimers and cannot sign anything anymore. He was able to get an attorney, a medical examiner and some friends as witness and got a Power of Attorney to sign for her. I guess this would be considerably more difficult if she has passed away.

      1. Doctor Syntax Silver badge

        Re: Get a Power of Attorney

        "I guess this would be considerably more difficult if she has passed away."

        It ought not to be as the power then automatically passes to the executor. There would, however, be a delay until probate's granted. The real problem lies in customer service scripts not having a section for dealing with probate or powers of attorney and their ISO9000 insistence on repeatability means that they repeatedly fail.

    2. Domquark

      Re: Get a Power of Attorney

      When my Mother passed away, she had an account with Tesco Bank. Her brother-in-law called Tesco, but they refused to close the account because they would only talk to the account holder. When my uncle explained that the account holder was dead (he offered to send a copy of the Death Certificate), they repeated their position of only talking to the account holder and no-one else. So we asked the solicitor to talk to Tesco Bank - he got the same response!

      Luckily, there was only a couple of pounds in the account, so we gave up, but the moral of the story is: It doesn't matter what position you are in (even death) - if the company doesn't want to do something - it won't!

      1. paulf

        Re: Get a Power of Attorney

        Respectfully, I'm not convinced on this (IANAL). When someone dies the executors of their estate gain control of it via the process of Probate assuming they don't die intestate (i.e. without a Will) which complicates things. Once the executors have completed the process of probate they can (along with a death certificate) gain access to the affairs of the deceased (things like ownership/possessions/property/financial affairs) so they can close down their estate. This is all done in writing so I suspect the problem you faced is that you tried to do this over the phone (the solicitor should have known better). I can understand the call centre droid declining to talk to someone on the basis of "The account holder has died, honest" even if the scripted reply sounds a bit odd. On the other hand I would be quite surprised if Tesco Bank were routinely disregarding the legal process of Probate without censure, and organisations like this usually have specialist bereavement teams to deal with this process. AIUI once the executors have completed probate an organisation like Tesco Bank could only challenge their access to the accounts by challenging the probate itself (again IANAL).

        1. Dr Dan Holdsworth

          Re: Get a Power of Attorney

          Having had to work through things like this when my father died, and with the prospect of having to do so on my mother's demise, I can honestly say that this sort of wuckfittery is standard and normal. When someone dies, a legal process is set in motion which is constrained to follow a certain course, the steps therein being responses to age-old con tricks played to gain control of living persons' money.

          So, you have to go through a series of steps to obtain a death certificate; when you do so I would strongly advise obtaining a dozen or so legal copies as this is cheaper at the time of issue rather than later. Most financial institutions will do precisely zero unless and until they get sight of a certified death certificate; this is legally mandated. Once they have a death certificate, some behave efficiently, some require prodding and some flap around like wet hens and have to be prompted every step of the way.

          Once all this has gone through and you have obtained final accountings of all the deceased's assets and debts and have paid them all, then you can make a list of everything they owned and stick it on a probate form. It is the making of the list that is the difficult bit; gathering all the info is the time-consuming part of it. Actually filling the form out is dead easy, especially as the instructions and guidance are pretty much idiot-proof. Unless everything is horribly complicated or you have the IQ of an aubergine, you don't need a solicitor to hand-hold you through filling out a form.

          Obtaining probate then gives you a certificate of probate. Once again, obtain a number of certified copies of this since no company will move unless they have had one of these certificates in their hands; they are legally required to act this way. They are not legally required to act like incompetent idiots who have never even heard of the concept of customers dying; this is merely part of the (dis)service that many offer.

          One useful trick I found for applying boot to buttock in such cases is the Letter of Instruction, which is a letter with that wording as a title, signed by all executors, declaring who you are, what has happened, what certified proof you have and what you want to happen. Generally this gets things moving nicely.

          1. paulf
            Thumb Up

            Re: Get a Power of Attorney

            @Dr Dan "I would strongly advise obtaining a dozen or so legal copies [of the death certificate]". A good post throughout but this is spot on advice. Everyone and his dog wants to see the original death certificate before lifting a finger so if you've only got one you'll be years sorting everything out. Get 10 or so copies and the paperwork become much easier to plough through.

            1. MrBanana

              Re: Get a Power of Attorney

              Yes, many copies. Just going through this after my father' s death. The solicitor has been completely useless, HSBC's bereavement service an utter shambles, and more than one party we have had to notify have needed a second death certificate after loosing the first one.

          2. Doctor Syntax Silver badge

            Re: Get a Power of Attorney

            "Generally this gets things moving nicely."

            But only once you get past the wet hens in customer services who have neither a script for that nor an escalation procedure.

          3. Tony W

            Re: Get a Power of Attorney

            Sometimes people have accounts in more than one name, for example they might use a shortened version of their name, or at some point they decided they disliked their given first name and started going under their middle name or another. BEFORE you get the death certificate, check all accounts you can to see if this happened and get all names and spellings they used put on the certfificate.

        2. Slinfold

          Re: Get a Power of Attorney

          What you have said is all very well provided that the executor:

          - can access the deceased's password protected computer/phone/etc.;

          - has or can ascertain from the PC/phone/etc. a full list of all sites on which the deceased has accounts, and means of contacting the providers of all such accounts (even when they are huge US conglomerates);

          - can access the deceased's e-mail to be aware of and attend to incoming correspondence, etc.; and notify appropriate people of the death;

          - etc..

          I have read stories of a family who son was killed on active service, and who wanted access to his e-mails (describing his active service), photos, etc. in order to remember him - but where Yahoo refused on the grounds that email accounts were not transferable, until Yahoo lost a US Court case invoked by the family.

          Also, does the deceased's Will state what they want to happen to any collections of, for example, photos, projects, research, etc. residing on the device?

          Those are a few of the issues that are not readily handled by a standard probate process. There are also now a number of websites & books that do address these issues:

          http://www.yourdigitalafterlife.com/

          https://www.techlicious.com/how-to/how-to-manage-your-online-accounts-after-you-die/

          https://www.lifewire.com/your-online-accounts-when-you-die-3486015

          https://www.everplans.com/#/

          https://www.hacker9.com/pass-your-online-accounts-after-death.html

          https://www.makeuseof.com/tag/one-simple-trick-will-share-online-account-access-death/

          http://www.thedigitalbeyond.com/

          https://mashable.com/2010/10/11/social-media-after-death/?europe=true#JSQhLkc6eGq9

          The following comments from YouGov (https://yougov.co.uk/news/2015/04/13/widespread-confusion-over-who-owns-online-accounts/) are interesting:

          "The research revealed a serious lack of understanding over who owns digital content after death. Over a third of adults online (36%) believe that Facebook own content by default after death; 20% think that next of kin inherit the content; over one in four (27%) don’t know; whilst 17% believe that no-one owns the content.

          "The survey also suggests that apathy amongst digital service users may be fuelling the risks. Almost half (48%) of respondents admitted to not reading the T&Cs before opening an online account, whilst 40% admitted to not reading them and continuing to use the service when contacted about a T&Cs update. Only one in five (20%) claimed to fully understand the terms and conditions before they opened an online account.

          "The research revealed that people are not sharing their digital passwords with loved ones or in their will. More than half of adults (52%) said no-one, including friends or family, would be able to access their online accounts should anything happen to them."

          The issues may not be as straight-forward as you suggest.

        3. Doctor Syntax Silver badge

          Re: Get a Power of Attorney

          "organisations like this usually have specialist bereavement teams to deal with this process"

          Working there isn't likely to be a sought-after job by the organisation's brightest and best. You need to factor that into your dealings with them.

        4. mark l 2 Silver badge

          Re: Get a Power of Attorney

          You have clearly never had to deal with the morons who work for Tesco bank, I spent 20 minutes on the phone to them about an over fee charge that the call centre droid promised me was a mistake and I would not be charged for as their text alerts doesn't seem to bother sending me messages despite it being set up to do so. 3 weeks later the charge appears on my account along with a letter in the post, phoned up to speak to someone again and they had no record of my previous 20 minute conversation or the promise that the fee would not be charged to me and had to go through the whole thing again.

          They then promised they would waive the fee and give me 25 pounds as compensation, which never showed up meaning I need to phone them AGAIN to sort it out.

      2. Doctor Syntax Silver badge

        Re: Get a Power of Attorney

        "if the company doesn't want to do something - it won't!"

        If you're prepared to go the full legal route they will when the bailiffs go in. Especially if the bailiffs start by seizing the receptionist's PC and phone.

        1. JulieM Silver badge
          Boffin

          Re: Get a Power of Attorney

          Wouldn't a PC and phone be considered tools of the receptionist's trade?

          1. Nolveys

            Re: Get a Power of Attorney

            Wouldn't a PC and phone be considered tools of the receptionist's trade?

            Nah, just the handgun.

    3. Doctor Syntax Silver badge

      Re: Get a Power of Attorney

      "And it will only get worse."

      Until we start getting nasty with them and start taking them to the small claims court and then send in the bailiffs when they ignore that.

  4. GIRZiM
    Childcatcher

    My carefully curated online presence

    Really?

    I'm dead - don't GAF about my 'carefully curated online presence.'

    And so long as none of my surviving family are simple-minded enough to fall for scams by their deceased relative, I won't have to turn in my grave with embarrassment at how anyone in my family could be that retarded.

    Seriously...

    Sort your finances out and any associated property matters and nothing else matters.

    If you want to pass your Netflix account to someone then do so before you die (duh). If you can't because you went senile in the meantime well, you know what, we never found where my grandmother buried the gold sovereigns in the park either - life's a bitch.

    *sigh*

    My carefully curated online presence?

    Talk about first world problems.

    1. Neil Barnes Silver badge

      Re: My carefully curated online presence

      There is the issue of occasional contacts and social groupings whom you would like, perhaps, to be advised of your death.

      In t'good old days it was often a question of delving through the deceased's possessions[1] to find an address book, and then get busy on the phone/letter writing (had to do that a couple of times) but in the absence of email/whatever passwords that could become a lot mode difficult.

      [1] Strictly, I don't think you have any possessions once you're dead. But I'm not a thanatalogical lawyer.

      1. GIRZiM

        Re: My carefully curated online presence

        > the issue of occasional contacts and social groupings whom you would like, perhaps, to be advised of your death.

        There is that, yes, but you can always put up an online memorial to the person in question for interested parties to find when researching whatever happened to that person they (in a completely uncharacteristic manner) haven't bothered to call for six months despite having been in regular contact for the last thirty years - and if they weren't in contact with you frequently enough for them to notice that you haven't spoken in six months and make enquiries, just how significant is it that they don't hear of your death anyway?

        Besides, what about the people in ye oldene dayes who didn't keep a written contact list either? How did people resolve the issue then?

        Or those who hid the key to the chest?

        Or didn't mention the combination to the family safe before getting run over by a bus?

        Seriously, you'd think this were a whole new class of problem that had suddenly arisen thanks to the advent of technology when it isn't - Malibu Stacey has a new hat and that's all there is to it.

        Yes it could, under the right circumstances, be a serious matter if someone can't log into your online account but, no, it's not new, it's just the same old issue of your heirs not having the combination to the safe containing the deeds to the house because you never gave it to them and (sensibly) didn't write it down in a little, black book with entries like "Mistress who will need to know why I'm not paying her rent any more", "Secret gay lovers who might want to attend my funeral", "Blackmailers I'm paying not to mention my paedophile activities to anyone" or "The combination to the safe behind the rather tacky Constable Haywain print in the ugly frame on the back wall of the study on the second floor of the house."

        This is all a fuss by people who really have nothing better to do than pick lint out of their navels. The problem here isn't one of technology but of information distribution and the solution is the same as it has ever been: give someone the information required to deal with whatever issues they (not you) might be confronted with upon your demise and the job's a good'un.

        If you're worried about them abusing the privilege then keep a list of all your accounts/passwords with a solicitor/lawyer and update it whenever you add/delete/change account details and they can give it to your appointed next of kin upon your death.

        But worrying about your 'carefully curated' online presence? Get a job!

        1. Anonymous Coward
          Anonymous Coward

          Re: My carefully curated online presence

          "[...] a little, black book with entries like "Mistress who will need to know why I'm not paying her rent any more"

          For many years an elderly neighbour would entertain me with choice details from her life. Having worked in a local legal office all her life she knew the scandals of the local high and mighty. One particular task was to facilitate the regular "anonymous" payments to what in those days were termed illegitimate children.

          When she died she had left instructions for her life's collection of daily diaries to be destroyed. Her daughter decided to read them first.

          In her own retirement the daughter embarked on the project by learning Pitman shorthand - which was loosely what her mother had used. She then discovered a new challenge - any reference to love affairs was in coded entries. The daughter was already privy to the general details - but eventually broke the code as well.

          The daughter did make one serious faux pas after the funeral. She knew her mother had been very candid with me - so it was assumed I knew "everything". She then made a reference that was a bombshell. Oops! I didn't know that one - even though I should have guessed from the facts I had already.

          1. GIRZiM

            Re: My carefully curated online presence

            > She then made a reference that was a bombshell. Oops! I didn't know that one - even though I should have guessed from the facts I had already.

            Eva Braun secretly had Hitler's love-child without his knowledge and you are its grandchild?

            1. Teiwaz

              Re: My carefully curated online presence

              Eva Braun secretly had Hitler's love-child without his knowledge and you ate its grandchild?

              is how I read that - even more 'US' tabloid than the intended 'Sunday Sport' one.

              1. GIRZiM

                Re: I Ate Hitler's Love-grandchild

                Magnificent!

                You should write that story and submit it!

                1. John Brown (no body) Silver badge

                  Re: I Ate Hitler's Love-grandchild

                  "Magnificent!

                  You should write that story and submit it!"

                  Maybe he was there fixing Hitlers personal Enigma machine so could could submit it to On Call?

                  1. GIRZiM
                    Coat

                    Re: I Ate Hitler's Love-grandchild

                    @ John Brown (no body)

                    In the early 1990s there was an RPG by the name of Macho Women With Guns - a tasteful affair, as I'm sure you can imagine.

                    Recently, I stumbled upon an adventure supplement for it that left me utterly speechless.

                    The title of this awe inspiring oeuvre?

                    Nothing less than Adolf Hitler - Porn Star

                    That's just...

                    I can't even.

                    Words fail me - I am struck by a conflict of emotion so powerful that not even the Bard himself could have given word to it and all I can do is sink to my knees and sob inconsolably as though my heart will break forever.

                    In fact, I'd be hard pushed not to sell my soul to Satan in return for the opportunity to make that movie and become famous for it.

                    Eternal damnation vs being universally reviled in my own lifetime doesn't seem like much of a deal really, but, in return for said reviling (revilation?), I would be infamous for having made that movie.

                    You can see my dilemma.

                    In fact, sod it, I'd sell my soul in return for having been the person who came up with the RPG adventure supplement - the idea is so tasteless that I'd want to be a part of it any cost.

                    Anyway...

                    To return to my having fallen to my knees for a moment (a whilst you're down there kinda thing), for some reason, even though it was my very own title that set it off, it was your reply that set me thinking along these lines and for that I must thank you.

                    Because, I read it and instantly had a visual flash on someone 'eating' Hitler and, by extension, one of his future grandchildren (obviously said sexual penitent is a 'swallower') - I think it was the suggestion that said person was there with Hitler at the time, working on the Enigma Machine (it's a Nazi porn washing machine repair man moment, isn't it?)

                    *sigh*

                    I shouldn't be allowed out really, should I?

                    It's alright, I'm going (just let me get my coat first).

                    [EDIT]

                    Ooh, look!

                    1. Anonymous Coward
                      Anonymous Coward

                      Re: I Ate Hitler's Love-grandchild

                      "[...] the idea is so tasteless that I'd want to be a part of it any cost."

                      It could use a title like "Springtime for Adolf".

        2. Doctor Syntax Silver badge

          Re: My carefully curated online presence

          "just how significant is it that they don't hear of your death anyway?"

          A good friend of ours died a couple of years ago. We didn't find out until one of her daughters wrote to us after they received our card the following Christmas. Had we known we'd certainly have gone over to Belfast for the funeral. So, yes, it can matter.

          1. GIRZiM

            Re: My carefully curated online presence

            @Doctor Syntax

            Having, in the not so distant Past, been through some bereavement situations myself, it's not that I don't appreciate what you're saying and I am truly not trying to be disrespectful, but, unless it was a timing thing and, all else being equal, under normal circumstances you'd have spoken after Christmas as part of being in frequent contact with them, if the only contact you had with them worth speaking of was a Christmas card then really...

      2. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        Re: My carefully curated online presence

        With the death of a close relative it was very easy informing people. Just told (in person) a few of their very active on social media friends (I'm not one for social media) and the news spread like wildfire, ditto for funeral date / location etc. Only people I had to tell were a few close friends and relatives who (like me) were not into social media.

        A lot easier than spreading death news was years ago, which was lots of phone calls (& letters or personal visit in the scenario of people with no phone)

      3. Doctor Syntax Silver badge

        Re: My carefully curated online presence

        "Strictly, I don't think you have any possessions once you're dead."

        You have an estate to be sorted out by your executor so I suppose the contents count as possessions. It's a sobering thought that a really complex estate could have a longer existence after the deceased death than it did before. Perhaps I should occupy my remaining years in trying to set that up.....

    2. Dan 55 Silver badge

      Re: My carefully curated online presence

      Your family might GAF if accounts are used to steal someone's ID or as part of a Russian retweet campaign in the next elections.

      When somebody dies, the estate should be able to download any data attached to the accounts. Now that GDPR has come along this is easier.

      Next, depending on the nature of the account it could be deleted (e.g. online shopping) or left up for a period of time before being removed (e.g. social network). After deletion, the account ID shouldn't be reusable to prevent ID theft.

      This is where the Internet clashes with the real world because how does an estate prove that it should have the rights to twinkletoes@hotmail.com whose address is down as Buckingham Palace.

      1. GIRZiM

        Re: My carefully curated online presence

        @Dan 55

        The fuss being made about people's 'online presence'? I hate to use the term 'snowflake' (and generally don't) but seriously, in this instance, it's just first world problems for those with nothing better to worry about than what the neighbours will think of their hairdo.

        The rest of your points, fine, although see my reply to Neil: this isn't a technology problem but simply the same problem that has always existed and the solution is the same as it has ever been: make sure that the necessary information will be made available to those who need it when the time comes - use a solicitor/lawyer and keep their records up to date.

        But as for

        > Your family might GAF if accounts are used to steal someone's ID or as part of a Russian retweet campaign in the next elections.

        Talk about trying to shoehorn in some pointless prejudice. What next? Nobody had my R.S.P.C.A. account password and the E.U. destroyed some dogs as a result?

        Russia has sweet FA to do with any of this but even if it did, if it really wants to steal my ID, it isn't going to wait until I'm dead.

        1. Yet Another Anonymous coward Silver badge

          Re: My carefully curated online presence

          >The fuss being made about people's 'online presence'?

          Imagine if Ansel Adam's photos were all deleted once his Google Pixel account closed, or if Dickens had published in the form of a blog, or the Goon show was a podcast - and all were deleted because the service provider 'owned' them ?

          I suppose the solution is for all of us to incorporate and have our steam accounts own by YAAC Ltd

          1. Allan George Dyer
            Facepalm

            Re: My carefully curated online presence

            "Imagine if Ansel Adam's photos were all deleted once his Google Pixel account closed, or if Dickens had published in the form of a blog, or the Goon show was a podcast - and all were deleted because the service provider 'owned' them ?"

            Or if the BBC deleted the Dr. Who tapes because they wanted to reuse them?

            1. Aqua Marina

              Re: My carefully curated online presence

              “Or if the BBC deleted the Dr. Who tapes because they wanted to reuse them?”

              Or if Warner Brothers lost the Babylon 5 HD master tapes because they just didn’t care!

          2. Dan 55 Silver badge

            Re: My carefully curated online presence

            Imagine if Ansel Adam's photos were all deleted once his Google Pixel account closed, or if Dickens had published in the form of a blog, or the Goon show was a podcast - and all were deleted because the service provider 'owned' them ?

            I think Rick Dickinson's Flickr albums should be kept publicly readable for all, but eventually the Pro subscription is going to run out.

        2. Dan 55 Silver badge

          Re: My carefully curated online presence

          The whole point of this is that many online companies have no death procedure so you can't do anything about it. So your choices are limited to 'nothing'.

          Secondly, I was pulling examples out of a hat but it happens. Twitter accounts which only occasionally post about football and recipes go dormant for a couple of years then suddenly start banging on several times a day about Brexit and only Brexit. It doesn't take a genius to figure out what happened there.

    3. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: I'm dead - don't GAF about my 'carefully curated online presence.'

      A colleague passed away in 2011. Some miscreants got hold of his username/password for Skype some time ago and sent several spam messages (with a bit.ly shortened URL, if I recall) from his account.

      It was sort of amusing, since one the senior managers that worked together with him got very upset about receiving a message from a colleague that died years ago, and asked for our Evil IT Team for support. We suggested him to get his computer exorcised. That's what our deceased friend, a well-known prankster, would have wanted.

    4. Slinfold

      Re: My carefully curated online presence

      Your comments: "Sort your finances out and any associated property matters and nothing else matters. If you want to pass your Netflix account to someone then do so before you die (duh)." rather assume that you are aware of your imminent death. What about the many people who die suddenly and unexpectedly?

      1. GIRZiM

        Re: My carefully curated online presence

        > What about the many people who die suddenly and unexpectedly?

        What about them?

        This is all an exercise in trying to control the nature of our lives to the benefit of others.

        Well, if that's what you want to do then do it: get your finances in order, make a will, assign an executor, keep records up to date, plan as though you were immortal, live as though today were your last day - you don't have to be seventy to do that!

        If you don't want to do that then, fine, don't, but you're not in a position to whine about the technicalities of your 'carefully curated online presence' as a result - if you couldn't be bothered to deal with it when you were alive, why should anyone else care about when you're dead?

        It's FUD, as though life were something that could (and, therefore, should) be quantifiable and deterministic and, oh, won't somebody think of the grandchildren?

        No, you can't be sure you won't get run over by a bus tomorrow. So, what are you going to do about it?

        The same as people did before computer technology: everything/something/nothing.

        In other news: dog bites man.

    5. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      I'm thinking of creating a service

      that will allow the deceased persons accounts to still spam the living with invites to Candy Crush

    6. Doctor Syntax Silver badge

      Re: My carefully curated online presence

      ... is on someone else's computer(s) that you don't control. Keep your email etc. local.

    7. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: My carefully curated online presence

      @GIRZiM

      People get their identities stolen when they're alive. It's probably a lot easier to steal them if the owner is not still around to challenge the theft. In fact, I wouldn't be surprised if there is a whole new criminal awareness of how to take advantage of some stranger's death.

      Granted, it won't affect you (you're alright, pull up the drawbridge), but it may adversely affect your loved ones. Assuming you have any, which considering your attitude, is debatable ;)

      1. GIRZiM

        Re: My carefully curated online presence

        > People get their identities stolen when they're alive.

        Yes, it's been happening for (probably) longer than either of us has been alive, but it's certainly one of the scourges of the post everything's-connected world.

        > It's probably a lot easier to steal them if the owner is not still around to challenge the theft.

        It certainly is - I'm a little hazy on the details (it's not something I've ever been involved in myself) but, apparently, the most successful such thefts involve babies that died very soon after birth but not so soon that a birth certificate wasn't produced.

        > In fact, I wouldn't be surprised if there is a whole new criminal awareness of how to take advantage of some stranger's death.

        No, it's not new: it has, as I said, been going on since long before the advent of computers and (probably) for longer than either of us has been alive.

        > Granted, it won't affect you (you're alright, pull up the drawbridge),

        Well, if you want to term being dead 'alright' then yes, I suppose so.

        > but it may adversely affect your loved ones.

        Which is why you should prepare as much as you can before you die - which has been my point all along.

        > Assuming you have any, which considering your attitude, is debatable ;)

        Oh, come now, surely you can do better than that.

        If you're going to cast aspersions upon how attractive a proposition I am as a mate/life-partner, family member or even friend then

        1. make it at least witty - a winking smiley does mitigate a little, I suppose, but it's hardly a substitute for an insult that made me laugh myself because it was clever.

        2. have the courage to do so with your name attached to it. I haven't once posted anything anonymously here, nor do I anticipate ever doing so either - right, misguided or embarrassingly wrong, I stand up am counted.

        Never, ever say or write anything (honest, dishonest or anything in between) that you wouldn’t want the person whose opinion you value the most in all the World to hear read out (or, worse yet, played back) in court/on international television, or see quoted in the international press, turned into an Internet ‘meme’ (you get the idea).

        No matter how drunk (or otherwise fucked up) you get, if it doesn’t pass that muster, it’s a bad idea: don’t do it.

        So, there's no need for anonymity, is there?

        Have some self-respect: even if your screen name is fake, use it; have an identifiable presence when you're here - otherwise you're nobody and you might as well not be here because no-one else can ever form a positive opinion of you and have any respect for you.

        1. Anonymous Coward
          Anonymous Coward

          Re: My carefully curated online presence

          Thanks for spelling out the rules. It's touching how you think they matter.

          Oh, they're your rules, and like your opinions, and mine, they don't matter one jot.

          The whole point of anonymity is so that those opinions don't get tied to a real identity. You seem to after some sort of peer approval, respect as you call it. I on the other hand, am not after any sort of self respect, and certainly wouldn't come here looking for it even if I was.

          You appear to be caught up in the "oh someone else has different views to me - well they must be wrong then" mentality prevalent in the world today.

          Back on topic, my point was that it's probably a whole lot easier to steal someone's identity in the online world than it ever was in the offline world, hence the likelihood that criminals would be looking to exploit opportunities not previously available to them.

          Casting aspersions about you pleasantness as a human was based on your own words where you described your relatives as potentially retarded for falling for online scams, as many others have before - because the scams are extremely believable.

          But that's only my opinion, and it's different to yours so it's wrong. Yawn - I won't lose any sleep over it ;)

          1. GIRZiM

            Re: My carefully curated online presence

            Wow!

            I think you're taking yourself just a little too seriously.

            The fact that you had such a knee-jerk reaction to being "told what to do" (without even being told what to do by anyone) is telling. That's not simply putting words in my mouth, but thoughts in my head! Is there any Schizophrenia in your family - is it you?

            If you think I'm attempting to set out any rules then you really need to look more closely at your own mentality, not mine. I proffered my opinion on the matter, no more and that should be self-evident - anyone who needs 'IM(H)O' after everything has reading comprehension issues that really aren't anyone else's to cater for or pander to (not even me).

            You're right, your opinions don't matter one jot. So why are you here telling me that? I don't GAF whether you like my opinions or not, you don't think they matter, why are you wasting your time in that case? Could it be that, despite your protestations to the contrary, actually, your opinion matters a great deal to you? I think it could. Otherwise, you wouldn't be voicing it. Or rather, you might, but not the way you are doing here and now.

            You clearly have something to prove, you're just too cowardly to do so as anything other than an anonymous voice. A propos of which, thanks for the lesson in sucking eggs - I don't know how I've got by all these years not knowing what the purpose of anonymity was!

            And do you really think it easier to steal someone's ID in the digital era?

            My goodness! Forty years in I.T. and I hadn't once given that any thought myself! Thanks for the heads-up!

            No, I don't regard it as a popularity contest; I don't care about popularity, just respect and submit that you'd do well to contemplate the difference - the fact that you have such high self-esteem does not mean that you have any reason to have the same degree of self-respect. The fact that you regard it as, in your own words, a popularity contest, sheds a great deal of light on your own thinking and what kind of person you are; the fact that you hide behind anonymity doesn't mean you don't crave popularity, just that you have some half-arsed idea that you are somehow superior for not having the courage to stand up and be measured for who you are - like I said, even if your screen name is fake, stand up and be counted (otherwise nothing you say is worth anything because, for all anyone knows, in the next post you'll contradict yourself).

            Oh, dear, I seem to be caught up in a mentality, do I? Oh, please tell me more, oh, guru ... I'm sorry but I've just pissed myself at that one - would I be right in assuming you are still rather young and on a mission to enlighten us poor, lumpen souls who have yet to attain the peaks of wisdom you have yourself scaled?

            My relatives are more than capable of taking me to task for calling them retards, if that's what they so wish to do; they don't need any help from you. But, as it happens, I think you would probably benefit from their help, were they so inclined to offer it to you - you see, unlike you, they don't have reading comprehension issues, can spot a hypothetical a mile off and don't mistake it for a propositional.

            Should l I choose to enter into banter with my friends and family by suggesting they'd be retards then they are more than capable of responding in kind and putting me in my place if they feel like it; neither I nor they need your permission to speak to one another in any manner we care to and you can feel as free to mind your own business as you like, provided you keep your mouth shut about anything that is not directed at you personally - and, trust me, neither they nor I are ever going to want to speak to anyone like you unless it's to tell you to go away and stop bothering the adults.

            You're entitled to your opinion but first you need to have one. And that requires you to have the least idea what you're talking about. And as everything you have said here is simply a reflection of your reading comprehension deficit, your developmentally arrested need to tell others where they are going wrong and police their language for them, nothing more than the petulant screech of the narcissistically disordered personality, it would be very difficult to find anything based on sufficient fact in amongst all your verbal diarrhoea to actually constitute an opinion.

            Your 'opinion', such as it is, isn't wrong, no. It's so far from wrong as to be not even wrong.

            You're a gutless, wannabe SJW without even the nerve, never mind the courage, to stand up and be counted - not even behind a fake, but at least consistent, persona. You're self-satisfied, self-congratulatory and don't even possess the saving grace of being witty with it.

            You stepped in and insulted me, using my loved ones as your excuse for doing so. How dare you take my family and friends in vain! You are a sanctimonious prig, not worthy of their mention. Nothing else you have said here is of any note; not one iota of it has troubled me, because you have no honour and are, therefore, of no significance. But don;t you dare attempt to pass your dishonourable deeds off in their name or pretend that anything you have said was for anyone's benefit but your own or served any purpose than to pamper your own overinflated ego!

            And I won't lose any sleep over you either - you are, after all, nobody.

            1. Anonymous Coward
              Anonymous Coward

              Re: My carefully curated online presence

              @GIRZiM

              Oh dear, looks like someone touched a nerve - lol.

              You'll be using upper case letters next!

    8. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: My carefully curated online presence

      "I'm dead - don't GAF about my 'carefully curated online presence.'

      Seriously...

      Sort your finances out and any associated property matters and nothing else matters."

      That is why anything put online should have a local backup if it is important. Or just don't put it online from the start to avoid the need to cleaning up / pass-down too much online presence.

  5. rd232

    Standards

    Is it just me, or is this crying out for an international standard? So that then users know that every account has the same standard Digital Dead Man's Switch* setup options available (weird extras if they like), and a sensible default.

    * marketing-friendly name TBC

  6. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    When my sister died she had already tidied her affairs. The remaining house contents went to a charity. I received a few small items of family sentimental value - plus her mobile phone which was a better model than my own.

    The PAYG SIM still had some credit - so I used that for a while to send texts to people who were not in her circle. When that expired then my old phone SIM was to be moved to it. Her number would then expire after a few months of inactivity. As far as I knew - anyone in her contact list had been informed of her death.

    One day there was a voicemail on the mobile. Who could it be? One of her grandsons had been hoping that there would be a voicemail response recording so he could hear her voice again. There wasn't - so there followed a sorrowful "conversation" about how much he missed her.

    Heartbreaking.

    1. StuntMisanthrope

      Epigram.

      Thanks. I can't decide what to do about deceased contacts. #nohashtag

  7. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    Online systems like PayPal should have such a deadman's handle. When it times out then any remaining funds should be automatically transferred back to the user's bank account.

    1. GIRZiM

      > Online systems like PayPal should have such a deadman's handle. When it times out then any remaining funds should be automatically transferred back to the user's bank account.

      Except that, in the intervening years, they closed the associated bank account and never bothered to update their PayPal account for the sake of £34.27.

    2. David 164

      considering they are effectively a bank, not sure if they are registered as such in all jurisdictions, they should act as a bank. Therefore a death certificate, probate and a letter setting everything out is all one should need to access a person paypal account after they have died.

      1. Richard 12 Silver badge

        But do you know it exists?

        As an executor, how do you discover that a Paypal account exists?

        It's only tied to an email account, and you have no way of accessing said email account because.

        You might not even know the email account exists, but assume that you do. How do you work out whether there is a Paypal account?

        Do Paypal even have a procedure for it at all?

        1. David 164

          Re: But do you know it exists?

          Yep, https://www.paypal.com/gb/smarthelp/article/how-do-i-close-a-deceased-customer's-paypal-account-faq1694

  8. chivo243 Silver badge
    Facepalm

    "issue of link rot"

    Yes, this is one of the banes of my existence at the moment. Anybody ever had to use an old HP or MS Link? I think some MS links deserve link rot, but never get it. I clearly searched for an issue on 2016 server, and MS returned me a link for Win 2000...

  9. Herring`

    I keep meaning to hand over my /. troll accounts to my son before I go so as to circumvent inheritance tax.

  10. Barry Rueger

    Not Twitter....

    ...they will give advice should you contact them, whether social network, email service, or web host.

    Says someone who has never tried to communicate with Google, Facebook, or Twitter. It is nearly impossible to raise a living breathing human at these companies.

  11. This post has been deleted by its author

  12. Halcin

    Huh?? (Off Topic)

    Has someone gone through and systematically down-voted every comment?

    1. ashdav

      Re: Huh?? (Off Topic)

      My thoughts too.

      My daughters sister died yesterday (same mother different father).

      She'd had cancer treatment for 5 years

      She was 35.

      Nobody should bury their children.

      Life is shit.

      1. Chairman of the Bored

        Re: Huh?? (Off Topic)

        @ashdav, I'm sorry, that's really rough. Makes me look at my kiddos and think... no way I could deal with losing one

      2. Boris the Cockroach Silver badge

        Re: Huh?? (Off Topic)

        Quote

        Life is shit.

        Its when you get a message from the states that a friend has passed away, and he was 9 months older than me that the above phrase hits home.

        I still have all the chats we had regarding life, the universe and everything stored away, even asked his widow if she wanted them.

        She had to do the 'jump through 7 hoops of hell' thing because he'd only made a will leaving everything to her and had the no idea about all the digital stuff left behind, because at 52, you dont plan for that sort of thing, unless you have to.

        Hence my will also has a copy of my FB and steam passwords stored in it (updated at 3 month intervals)

        And as for the banks et al wanting 17 copies of death certificates and probate certificates.... yes they do and they do run a post deaths service

        "Hi my mother has died, can I have access to her accounts?"

        "we need death and probate certificates..... hmmm its odd.... your father died recently too...before probate completed transferring his assets to your mother... we're not going to do a thing until we see legal copies of everything ... and even then we're gonna drag everything out for nine months just to add further suffering and heartache"

        "You heartless bastards. we're setting the family lawyer on you... good luck in your next job"

        (this above conversation is a seriously abridged version of what happened when ma and pa died within 4 months of each other)

      3. ashdav

        Re: Re: Huh?? (Off Topic) My thoughts too.

        Thanks for the upvotes.

        Much appreciated.

    2. GIRZiM

      Re: Huh?? (Off Topic)

      There's at least one person on this site who does that.

      I can only imagine that (if they're not a rogue bot) they are thirteen years old and/or have some deep-seated psychoemotional issues that remain unresolved due to arrested development (at around the age of thirteen, I suspect).

    3. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: Huh?? (Off Topic)

      "Has someone gone through and systematically down-voted every comment?"

      Yes Indeed!

      I have been seeing more and more of this on the El Reg forums.

      But it isn.t the Phantom Downvoter that has me concerned, at least with him/her/other you at least know where they stand.

      It's the Phantom Upvoter that worries me and keeps me up at nights in a cold sweat.

      #1 The Phantom Upvotes are MUCH harder to detect.

      #2 You don't really know if the upvote is to coerce you into posting more comments in an attempt to ID you if Anon.

      #3 Users that receive a lot of Upvotes could be used to determine "ringleaders" amongst commentards to be added to a covert watch list.

      #4 The Upvotes could be a "False Flag" operation to distract from other comments

      (Just because you're paranoid doesn't mean they're not out to get you)

      https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0OnpkDWbeJs

      1. GIRZiM
        Black Helicopters

        Re: Huh?? (Off Topic)

        > Just because you're paranoid doesn't mean they're not out to get you

        That's disturbing.

        Tell me more about points #2 and #3.

        How would that work exactly?

  13. David 164

    I think you mean Generation Z, most millennials didn't spend their entire childhood online and know what offline is unlike generation z who have indeed live their entire childhood and teen life online and will short of an apocalypse spend their entire adult lives online as well.

  14. Danny 2

    Rosetta

    Jeez, that was bleak. I've read The Register since forever and that is the first comments section that made me cry. It's easy to forget that behind every witty poster is someone with relatives who die, and not every poster who disappears has just got bored.

    I have to say that I've enjoyed and been enriched by your company and I wish you well.

    I recently started digitising my favourite stuff that I've managed to save through my travails, my travels and my mostly misjudged charity. Everything that I have left in my flat that I value will be tossed in a skip when I kick it. Letters, photos, books that I doubt will make any sense or interest to anyone else, but I value it so I may as well record it.

    When I was 11 my history teacher told me history suffered because they didn't have enough histories of poor people, just rich and powerful people. I just hope future historians have a decent IT support able to recreate a USB-A port, software support to recreate readers for PDF, jpegs etc. Maybe we should send a crappy laptop to the moon.

    I hope all you people die clean, with your porn history cleared, and have your good stuff backed up for posterity.

  15. Chairman of the Bored

    @Danny 2 - couldn't agree more

    A tough part about getting old is seeing the mortality of those around you; at some point human needs break through the masks and we realize 'that forgetful guy' is really struggling with major issues, and we are not far behind.

    Tough experience for me recently was when a colleague died suddenly. Going through another guys desk to separate personal effects from company property. Then going through the email spool for the same purposes and "curating" some of the archival record to avoid any upsetting the family further... just not a good task.

  16. StuntMisanthrope

    dopplershiftganger.com

    It's a proper ting this. Especially if you have skill, responsibility and loads of stuff. Personal and business.

    MFA, crypto, certificates and whatever else. That unless a sysadmin () is involved means not a jot or wouldn't even be on the radar unless someone is shouting. #digitalvaultwithcompartmentalisation

  17. Chairman of the Bored

    Sometimes you dont see it coming

    Had a colleague shift himself off the mortal coil not too long ago. I make no judgement concerning his decision; I can't pretend to understand his battle. We all have one.

    Only sign I saw and missed is that he sorted his office and gave me a couple of very nice hardbound handbook sets I've had a habit of borrowing. I just thought he was straightening up the space and being very generous. Seemed a-ok. No problems. Next day, he's gone. No note, no last words to family or anyone, just gone.

    Nobody else saw a thing.

    I guess the lesson is that we've got to let people know we appreciate them here and now; things tomorrow can be very different.

  18. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    One approach...

    For a number of years now, I gave the Mrs an encrypted USB stick with details of all my online accounts, banking, shopping, utilities, phone / internet / TV subscriptions, social media (even El Reg) etc. I update it periodically with changes / new accounts. In the event of my untimely demise, she can do whatever she likes with those accounts.

  19. Slx

    My mom died a few weeks go and this topic has been very much on my mind as I had the grim task of tidying up the social media world of someone who was *very* tech savvy and all over various platforms.

    She died incredibly unexpectedly and without any warning, so there were no plans at all and no opportunity to talk to her about what to do. She just took a massive stroke caused by a fault in a blood vessel which, despite every modern technology and intervention being available, it was not repairable. She went from a happy weekend brunch, to unconscious, to dead within barely 24 hours.

    All of a sudden, I realised I had to not only contact all of her friends by phone, text and even letter, but she had made me a legacy contact on her Facebook, so I was able to very quickly memoralise it and lock it down. There was a whole virtual world connected to her that had to be wrapped up without breaking into it or trampling on her right to privacy and the confidence of those who she was in touch with over the years.

    It got me thinking about all the other social media accounts she had that I am aware of and others that I probably will never know about.

    I felt extremely uncomfortable about the idea of going anywhere near her phone. There's just so much confidential information in these devices and I was thinking about it from my own point of view and I would utterly dread someone (even if they were very close relative or my best friend) trawling my devices. There's nothing embarrassing or weird on them, but there are a lot of very personal discussions that were never intended for consumption by *anyone( other than me. So, I took that approach with her data and basically avoided opening / looking at anything.

    In the end I closed ( strictly without reading anything) the majority of her social media accounts, at least anything that was directly identifiable with her real name. Anything other than that is really just none of my business and irrelevant. I then closed and deleted any connected apps that have databases behind them, deleted them and closed off all iOS subscriptions and eventually closed and deleted her iCloud account and Gmail account etc.

    My major concern was someone might either hijack an account or that any account where people could post to her could become a source of unpleasant spam. So, I pretty much locked or fully deleted anything I could find. My logic is that while they may be secure to within 2018 norms, in 10 years time they could be completely vulnerable or some of those companies may have gone to the wall or who knows what could happen. I just didn't want to leave data floating around in cyberspace in the control of companies that I have no relationship with on her behalf..

    It's a really horrible task to have to do and I wouldn't be so sure that my own nearest and dearests would be so concerned about my privacy after I'm gone as I might have been with hers. People have very different views of confidentiality and nostalgia could outweigh where I see my private life beginning and ending.

    I decided that I will setup a legal framework in my will for my own accounts and devices that they be completely erased when I go. I will always keep things I specifically want to share in a shared space, but anything else is almost like an extension of my brain. I don't want to necessarily share it with anyone. It's far more sensitive than diary in many ways and was never intended for anyone's consumption. There are certain things that will go when I go and that's just how life is.

    All I would say is everyone should make plans for this. Hopefully we'll all live to a ripe old age and have lots of time to plan and prepare for the inevitable, but a % of us may be struck down by sudden illnesses, accidents or other bolts of lightening out of the blue. Life's not predictable and we're not immortal, but our digital legacies may well last for hundreds of years after we're gone and it's worth remembering that it's *you* who should be telling your story and leaving that legacy, not having it interpreted or reinterpreted by someone else.

    It's also about protecting your personal contacts. Do you really want a relative or possibly even a total stranger suddenly having access to conversations that may be of the utmost confidence with your online world of contacts?

    I mean, I know I have had some of my most intimate conversations where I've been very open to others and they've been very open to me online. Some of those people I know very well in my real life, but others are online only. I've acted as a counsellor at times over the years and I know some of them have to me too. I would doubt that experience is all that unusual as sometimes we can really pour our hearts out online in a way we might not do face-to-face. I feel I have a duty of care to those people to keep those confidences, even after I'm gone.

    Even forgetting about the confidentiality, morals and ethics, it will be your partner, your kids, your parents or someone else who's close to you who's left with this grim task, so it's probably better that you make positive decisions about it now and have it all happen automatically when your brain does eventually power off, rather than leaving it to a grieving relative who might not be able to make rational decisions for months after your passing or who might have very different values to yours.

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