back to article If Brussels wants Android forks, phone makers aren't helping

The European Commission made the phrase "Android forks" a household word last week. But developers who wish to create and popularise their Android forks have just found the job got harder. The world's No.3 phone seller, Huawei, which also sells tens of millions of Honor-brand phones each year, offered bootloader codes allowing …

  1. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    And the mess that is Android updating

    just got worse.

    Oh well, only the techinlcal elite (aka people who post here in the main) will care or that must be what they are hoping.

    Perhaps the chinese government mandated spyware was disabled by rooting the phone?

    We may never know but it does not bode well for the long term.

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: And the mess that is Android updating

      Exactly what Microsoft wanted when they made their initial complaint (during WinPhone era) to the EU.

      Ironically, times have changed since then and now its in Microsofts interests that Android isn't damaged by their complaint, as they are so heavily bought in

      1. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        Re: And the mess that is Android updating

        Awww bless. When your grasp of English doesn't quite match the subtlety of the point you're trying to make.

        A brave effort!! I wonder what it means......

        1. Khaptain Silver badge

          Re: And the mess that is Android updating

          <Rant coming up>

          Parmi nous il y a quelques-uns qui parle plusieurs langues...

          When someone tries their best to speak or write English when it is their second or third language then I think that they should be welcomed rather than scorned.

          Grammar Nazis are Ok when it is obvious that the person writing is a native English speaker, but it's far less necessary for the others.

          A little bit of understanding/forgiving can make us all better people...even on El Reg...

          <end rant>

          1. This post has been deleted by its author

          2. JLV

            Re: And the mess that is Android updating

            Oh, parmi nous, il y en a qui parlent deja mal leur propre langue ET aiment corriger les autres sans bonne raison.

            Can AC actually enlighten us as to what he was whining about originally? Because, to me he looks like both a pedant and not really good at English.

            Is it the position of the _is_ below?

            >And the mess that is Android updating

            That may be a bit strange-looking, but it's correct grammar and perfectly suitable to the task.

            BTW, I rather liked this write-up about what Google is up to. I hadn't realized it was quite that nasty, esp the bit about basically cutting off manufacturers who make _any_ Android fork devices.

            https://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2018/07/googles-iron-grip-on-android-controlling-open-source-by-any-means-necessary/

          3. werdsmith Silver badge

            Re: And the mess that is Android updating

            @Khaptain

            Grammar Nazis are Ok when it is obvious that the person writing is a......

            Grammar "Nazis"? Seriously? Comparing criticism of language skills to a holocaust ideology?

            OK that was a rude criticism of the English by somebody who was butt-hurt because Android got criticised, but "Nazi" is just ridiculous.

            1. JLV
              Headmaster

              Re: And the mess that is Android updating

              If you'll mouse over the icon, you'll see it says "Pedantic grammar nazi alert"...

              FWIW, Mel Brooks, who's Jewish, seemed to think that making fun of Nazis was one way to de-fang their evil ideology.

              >Brooks: Yes, absolutely. Of course it is impossible to take revenge for 6 million murdered Jews. But by using the medium of comedy, we can try to rob Hitler of his posthumous power and myths.

              While I understand your sentiment, I also tend to agree with Mel. See also Chaplin's Great Dictator.

              http://www.spiegel.de/international/spiegel/spiegel-interview-with-mel-brooks-with-comedy-we-can-rob-hitler-of-his-posthumous-power-a-406268.html

              (Interestingly, Brooks hated Begnini's `Life Is Beautiful`, for the same reasons as me.)

              1. Richard Plinston

                Re: And the mess that is Android updating

                > FWIW, Mel Brooks, who's Jewish, seemed to think that making fun of Nazis was one way to de-fang their evil ideology.

                You may be interested in Randy Rainbow who is making fun of another 'evil ideology'.

                https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=1&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=0ahUKEwi4xqLTiLvcAhXBS7wKHf-QAXwQwqsBCCswAA&url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.youtube.com%2Fwatch%3Fv%3Dk-LTRwZb35A&usg=AOvVaw3TiOWgekIFTvPh67xYHujv

        2. Persona Silver badge

          Re: And the mess that is Android updating

          "A brave effort!! I wonder what it means" ......

          I've read the OP's comment twice in an attempt to see things from your perspective. It's quite clear and written in reasonably good English. As such I have concluded that your head must be so far up your ass it would be impossible for anyone else to see anything from your perspective.

          1. Anonymous Coward
            Anonymous Coward

            Re: And the mess that is Android updating

            Thanks for everyone telling me how obvious the meaning is without actually explaining it......

            1. JLV

              Re: And the mess that is Android updating

              >without actually explaining it......

              If you're genuinely curious, try posting the specifics of what irks you @ https://english.stackexchange.com/

              A simple "is this correct?" should give you some good insights.

          2. Camilla Smythe
            Happy

            Re: And the mess that is Android updating

            I have concluded that your head must be so far up your ass arse

            1. Anonymous Coward
              Anonymous Coward

              Re: And the mess that is Android updating

              I have concluded that your head must be so far up your ass arse

              Ah, but that is an assumption (yes, I could have added in a hyphen but that would be too obvious a pun).

              It could well be that we may have to call animal welfare to check out the situation :).

      2. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        Re: And the mess that is Android updating

        (I’m a different AC from all of the others in this subthread, or at least I think I am...)

        Aside from somewhat unnecessarily rude comments about the original comment, I personally am also genuinely curious about what the original AC actually meant by:

        > now its in Microsofts interests that Android isn't damaged by their complaint, as they are so heavily bought in

        Do you mean that Microsoft now quite enjoys the licensing income that it apparently derives from Android, or something else?

        I personally would have thought that Microsoft would be only too happy to see something bad happen to Android, but I may be mistaken.

    2. Ian Michael Gumby
      Big Brother

      Re: And the mess that is Android updating

      Perhaps the chinese government mandated spyware was disabled by rooting the phone?

      We may never know but it does not bode well for the long term.

      Oh but we do know. ;-)

      Any variant of Android must be blessed by big brother.

      So that's a killer.

  2. WibbleMe

    As an app developer having multiple app stores ie IOS and Google Play means a lot of work, Im not sure I would support a third.

    I hope mobile phone companies are threatening to pull out of the EU because of this.

    1. sabroni Silver badge
      WTF?

      re: I hope mobile phone companies are threatening to pull out of the EU because of this.

      Because Huawei aren't giving unlock codes any more?

    2. Giovani Tapini

      Agreed, there are enough platforms

      Given the relatively thin margins the manufacturers play with why on earth would they fork Android? There is significant cost and effort behind this, and nobody makes any more cash.

      The logical course is limited to allowing the consumer to install something else and lose manufacturer support. The ecosystem behind the OS is equally important, the app store etc.No mention of this as a priority.

      Its not like you are prevented from installing other browsers etc. indeed I am more upset by being forced by the carrier to install Farcebook, their own tat store app, feeble premium games etc that I can't uninstall (and use up lots of memory) and are not even related to the platform.

      What next, perhaps we'll try to tell Apple to allow shouts to google or alexa instead of Siri?

      1. Charles 9

        Re: Agreed, there are enough platforms

        "Given the relatively thin margins the manufacturers play with why on earth would they fork Android? There is significant cost and effort behind this, and nobody makes any more cash."

        It's not just the phone manufacturers but the component manufacturers, too. There's a reason all the drivers from Rockchip, Mediatek, etc. are blobs. Opening anything up would be Giving Information To The Enemy in their world. Basically, if you don't have some kind of internalized edge the way Apple (partial vertical integration) does, good luck. Sure, you can use AOSP, but without a competitive substitute for Google Play Services (including such things as Maps, for which Google actually shelled out actual labor to collect), it's going to be a hard sell.

        1. Anonymous Coward
          Anonymous Coward

          Why they would fork Android

          If Google stops developing Android at some point and tries pushing Fuchsia, which would no doubt leave far less room for OEMs to customize. I could see a bunch of OEMs getting together and committing resources to further develop/support Android, and someone like Lineage picking up the ball and running the open source side of things.

          There's no way all OEMs will follow Google if they want to switch everyone to Fuchsia.

          1. Teiwaz

            Re: Why they would fork Android

            If Google stops developing Android at some point and tries pushing Fuchsia

            I thought Fuchsia is to replace the actual OSS bit (the Linux kernel), the rest is Google fluffer tools.

            1. Anonymous Coward
              Anonymous Coward

              Re: Why they would fork Android

              I thought Fuchsia is to replace the actual OSS bit (the Linux kernel), the rest is Google fluffer tools.

              Maybe so, but I thought part of the reason was to eliminate Java and the potential for Oracle to win a huge judgment against Android. If they do that, they lose Android compatibility and will have to use their marketing muscle to push devs to develop for to the new model - effectively creating a third mobile ecosystem.

        2. Richard Plinston

          Re: Agreed, there are enough platforms

          > Sure, you can use AOSP, but without a competitive substitute for Google Play Services (including such things as Maps, for which Google actually shelled out actual labor to collect), it's going to be a hard sell.

          Nokia went down that route, which is allegedly one of the reasons Microsoft bought the company. The Nokia-X (later sold as Microsoft-X) was Android with Microsoft and Nokia services. This was done by Nokia partly because the Microsoft payment to Nokia of one billion per year was ending and partly because Windows Phone 8 was locked into older SOCs that were no longer competitive (as WP7 was before). Going to Android allowed more modern components to be used giving a better range of performance and pricing for Nokia.

          Of course Microsoft killed the product after a few months because it was too popular (it was outselling WP), just as they had killed Symbian, Maemo/Meego, Meltemi, and Asha. They then killed Windows Phone leaving the virtual duopoly that we have today.

          So, it is primarily Microsoft that caused the problem that they complained about to the EU.

          https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2014/jul/17/microsoft-killing-nokia-x-android-smartphones

      2. Alan Brown Silver badge

        Re: Agreed, there are enough platforms

        "I am more upset by being forced by the carrier to install Farcebook, their own tat store app, feeble premium games etc that I can't uninstall "

        The one that REALLY irks me is GDPR-breacher Linkedin being in there on Samsung phones.

        1. Anonymous Coward
          Anonymous Coward

          Re: Agreed, there are enough platforms

          The EU just made that worse, not better. To sum up what's going to happen as a direct result of the EU ruling

          Google will charge manufacturers for Android, manufacturers will subsidise this additional cost by bundling more sponsored crap on your phone, or will raise the RRP to offset it.

          Quite clearly these is no reason to develop Android for Google, if they can't push their add-on services.

    3. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      @WibbleMe

      As an app developer having multiple app stores ie IOS and Google Play means a lot of work, Im not sure I would support a third.

      And therein lies the rub.

      Ok. the Microsoft phone OS was a kludge, but the real killer is that many app developers didn't want to have to port and maintain the port to a third OS. This is why Nokia was in bit of a bind because they didn't have the funds to pay developers to port to yet another OS while Microsoft was able to do just that.

      Now imagine if you had a clearing house that could support multiple phone/OS as a store. Apple and Google would have a cow, but the EU could help force it to happen.

  3. Warm Braw

    I hope mobile phone companies are threatening to pull out of the EU

    If mobile phone companies threaten us with "Andrex", I suspect it might be taken as a comment on the quality of their product...

    1. Chronos
      Thumb Up

      Re: I hope mobile phone companies are threatening to pull out of the EU

      If mobile phone companies threaten us with "Andrex", I suspect it might be taken as a comment on the quality of their product...

      Soft and unnecessarily expensive? I thought that was the premier league...

      Bravo on the portmanteau. That's just soddin' genius.

  4. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    They're not the only ones...

    Xioami are heading in that direction... before unlocking a phone, they have imposed a "360 hour" way period.

    I suspect, we're going to be heading towards using exploits to get them unlocked, rather than officially sanctioned and support - which is a dangerous place. Great shame, as it was the primary reason I swapped from iOS to Android!

    1. MacroRodent

      Re: They're not the only ones...

      I suspect, we're going to be heading towards using exploits to get them unlocked, rather than officially sanctioned and support

      Rather like game consoles then - most of them can be cracked via some bug, either in the console or in some game...

      I wonder if we could get an EU directive passed mandating that the customer must be able to install an alternate phone OS? Their famous Android ruling is rather irrelevant without it.

    2. JohnFen

      Re: They're not the only ones...

      "I suspect, we're going to be heading towards using exploits to get them unlocked"

      Just like it has been for a lot of smartphones from day 1.

  5. Shadow Systems

    Android forks?

    What about Android spoons, knives, or sporks? Won't someone think of the cutlery? =-)p

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: Android forks?

      For pity's sake, don't use the c-word! You'll get alt-Android OSes banned from London if the government catches wind of that!

    2. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: Android forks?

      "What about Android spoons, knives, or sporks?"

      Knifing is very bad, spooning is OK, sporking sounds like something David Cameron does, but forking is the most fun.

    3. Rogerborg 2.0
      Paris Hilton

      Re: Android forks?

      If you fork a spork, do you get a sporkork, or a forspork?

      1. Teiwaz

        Re: Android forks?

        If you fork a spork, do you get a sporkork, or a forspork?

        Annoyia, the Goddes of things stuck in drawers waives her spatula and transforms you into the Muppets Swedish Chef, and you have to talk like that forever...

      2. onefang
        Coat

        Re: Android forks?

        "a forspork"

        Isn't that the bit they cut off the end of young cutlery for religious reasons?

        I'll get my coat, but someone seems to have removed the collar.

  6. msknight

    Things are due for a change

    It does look like we're going back to the days where manufacturers had their own OS.

    Project Fuscia does lead me to believe that Android has a limited shelf life now, especially regarding the grief with Oracle, etc.

    However, Sailfish's Dalvik has been giving me reasonable success in running apk on Sailfish. Maybe some devs could get in touch with Jolla and see if their apps can be ported with minimum re-work.

    I'm currently running Sailfish on a Sony Xperia X (having paid for the OS on top of the phone) and when this dies my next phone will be a Fairphone 2 (or 3 by that time) also running Sailfish.

  7. Chewi
    WTF?

    HTC still allows this?

    Are you sure they've ceased allowing this? I was surprised and disappointed to read that but according to this U12+ guide, you just have to choose the All Other Supported Models option in the drop-down.

  8. tomjuggler

    they lost one customer

    Was about to get a new huawei phone, got something else after this news. One drop in the bucket...

  9. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    Hope for the best, plan for the worst...

    I believe Vestager would like to see forks, but it takes a lot of effort of money. Anyway, hindering Google to abuse of its position to cement its services within Android will keep the market more open, if not the OS, at least applications.

    After all, even an alternative desktop OS never materialized - macOS still needs an expensive proprietary hardware, and Linux never made the hoped inroads, remaining a niche. Still. MS couldn't use IE to set Web standards, and lost ground to competitors.

    We won't see a replacement for Google Search in the Western world soon either, but others like Mail, Maps and even Youtube may be more vulnerable to competition.

    What is important is to avoid the market sclerotised and becomes a real monopoly - especially since we've seen the danger of too few companies controlling access to information.

  10. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    Isn't this like Windows N

    I think there would be a button that would remove Google Apps that no one would press (like Windows N that no one buys). And if pressed, replaced with an install google.

    That would be EU compliant and end the matter - forks and other ecosystems with reasonable market share are pipe dreams at this point.

    EU could help by spending effort on iOS and Android interop - like facetime and iMessages.

  11. fuzzie
    Thumb Up

    Sony's Open Devices

    Just to give credit where it's due. Sony has been running an Open Devices program for many years and have been really good about making it easy for people to get unlock codes, AOSP kernel source and build configurations. They even provide information on how to attach to the debug serial interface. It's this same program that allowed SailfishOS to create the Sailfish X port. They've been exemplary open source citizens in this context.

    Caveat: If you unlock your boot loader you forfeit the warranty. You also, unless you take extra precautions, lose DRM keys for special hardware like BIONZ processor.

    Obligatory reference

    * https://developer.sony.com/develop/open-devices/

    1. Voland's right hand Silver badge

      Re: Sony's Open Devices

      Concur - I have used it twice on the earliest Xperias in the household which were run using Cyanogen once they became to old for their normal OS.

      While I have not used it for the last 4-5 years, it is one of the primary reasons why it is the only manufacturer "authorized for purchase" in our household for nearly ten years.

      1. onefang

        Re: Sony's Open Devices

        I think Motorola do something similar for their Moto Z range. I'll likely find out for sure later this year when I try to open up my Moto Z. I currently use one of their Moto Mods that is completely open, running a modified firmware on it. Though admittedly that's their development kit.

  12. JohnFen

    Why I'm abandoning commercial smartphones

    This is a part of why I'm not planning on buying any more commercial smartphones. The OEM Android installs are horrible, and being able to replace them is pretty much a minimum requirement. That, combined with the fact that the hardware is no longer meeting my needs well, means that they aren't worth the money to me.

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: Why I'm abandoning commercial smartphones

      What exactly are "non commercial smartphones"? Or do you mean you are going back to a feature phone?

      1. Alistair
        Windows

        Re: Why I'm abandoning commercial smartphones

        He gonna build his own with COTS hardware and an Open Source OS.......

        (and to tell the truth, if I could GET COTS phone bits, I would too)

        1. JohnFen

          Re: Why I'm abandoning commercial smartphones

          You can get the phone bits as COTS: they come as small circuit boards that have all the necessary hardware and firmware for the phone, and are easy for a computer to interact with. The only downside is that you can't have 4G (that I've found, anyway). It's 3G or lower.

          1. Anonymous Coward
            Anonymous Coward

            Re: Why I'm abandoning commercial smartphones

            The lack of 3G is kind of a big problem. Verizon will be LTE (and 5G, presumably) only by the end of next year. AT&T will take longer because of the number of 3G IOT devices out there, but I'd bet they'll follow by the end of 2021.

            1. JohnFen

              Re: Why I'm abandoning commercial smartphones

              Yes, it is, but I figure one of two things will happen -- either it will become possible to get 4G cell boards before 3G just stops working, in which case I'll upgrade, or I'll have to buy a cheap feature phone and tether to it for cell system access.

              That's the biggest downside to going this route, personally speaking, but even with that the result is a better solution than I can find on the commercial market.

              1. JohnFen

                Re: Why I'm abandoning commercial smartphones

                I just wanted to add... for my use case, the lack of 4G is certainly a downside, but it's not a showstopper. With my current smartphone, I don't really use the data connection very much. I'm usually near a WiFi hotspot when I'm out and about and just use those.

      2. JohnFen

        Re: Why I'm abandoning commercial smartphones

        As Alistair says, I'm in the process of building my own smartphone. My current estimate is that the total BOM will come in at around $400.

  13. martin__r

    Android bootloader unlocking

    Rather than handing out bootloader unlock codes (which you can use to root/hack _someone_elses_ phone, Huawai could have done like Samsung, which provides an "OEM unlock" in the Developer options of the Android settings.

    While "OEM unlock" is disabled Samsung phones will not allow custom bootloader nor custom recovery images to run.

    this kind of soft-bricks every rooted Samsung phone if you accidentally disable OEM unlock in the developer options and then reboot the phone.

    After poweron, the phone reports "Custom binary blocked by FRP Lock" and switches itself off.

    This seems to also prevent loading the battery (which is silly!)

    The message talks about "FRP lock" but actually this is about OEM unlock of the bootloader"

    To fix such a soft-bricked Samsung phone, you have to start the phone into firmware download mode (which still works!), and then use ODIN to flash back an original Samsung Bootloader. Flashing only the bootloader will be sufficient -- and by flashing only the bootloader, you will not loose any data! With the genuine Samsung Bootloader, the phone will boot, allow you to go the settings & developer options, and to re-enable "OEM unlock", and after that you can root your phone again (a process that modifies the phone's bootloader).

    How to flash only the bootloader is less obvious, You can extract the bootloader from an official Samsung firmware image for the phone, and then repackage only the boot.img into a tar file with the appropriate tar comamnd line options, and then append a textual MD5 checksum to the file, to make it a boot.tar.md5 which Odin will flash.

  14. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    The thing that really irks is the corporate justification:

    'The announcement says they have stopped the unlock code application service to “provide better user experience"'

    https://www.xda-developers.com/huawei-stop-providing-bootloader-unlock-codes/

    -------

    How is that a better UX? I'm so done with all the corporate speak. I was hoping to unlock an old Huawei Android-4 and experiment with LineageOS etc. Now it appears there's no chance of that. Better UX? No its a PITA!

  15. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    Well, Huawei, Xiaomi, Oppo and a lot of other OEMs already have their own "flavour" of Android, with the China version stripped of Google's infringing software. And they make lower margin on their devices.

    EMUI, MIUI, ColorOS, HydrogenOS, FuntouchOS, Samsung Experience... all of them are extensive Android modifications that could be counted as forks. They even have their own development cycles. Only downside is that security updates are usually forgotten in those cycles.

    They also have their alt stores too. So maybe Android without Google is possible, and it already is, at least in China

    1. Charles 9

      "Well, Huawei, Xiaomi, Oppo and a lot of other OEMs already have their own "flavour" of Android, with the China version stripped of Google's infringing software. And they make lower margin on their devices."

      Which makes me wonder what happens when Google demands they remove Google Suite from ALL their devices, per contract, including any they sell outside China, since their China phones CAN'T have it, as you claim? That's part of the crux which the judgment addresses. Phone makers can't sell unbundled phones unless they ONLY sell unbundled phones.

  16. John Styles

    I don't want an Android fork, I want a translucent blue impeccably designed iSpork

  17. alpha_juniper

    Nothing to see. Move on.

    There's nothing new here. Everyone can move on.

    It's been a fiction of the Android fan that Android phones are "open source" or "free" (as in libre). Only the most expensive of phones have ever been fully supported with unlockable boot loaders.

    Look at Sony, for example. Their budget phones are locked down TIGHTER than iOS. Only their premium phones can be unlocked.

    And, even if you can get the bootloader to unlock it's dicey to install an unsupported OS. Bricking your phone is not an uncommon event.

    Honor's announcement likely relates to internal Chinese Communist Party politics. Unlocked bootloaders allow people to install any AOSP which means Chinese people can install versions of AOSP (the open source cousin to Android) that can run software normally prohibited on Chinese phones (to bypass, for example, the great Chinese firewall).

    1. JohnFen

      Re: Nothing to see. Move on.

      "And, even if you can get the bootloader to unlock it's dicey to install an unsupported OS. Bricking your phone is not an uncommon event."

      It's not that dicey, really, and bricking is not really that common. But if it happens, it's reasonably easy to unbrick it.

      1. alpha_juniper

        Re: Nothing to see. Move on.

        "It's not that dicey, really, and bricking is not really that common. But if it happens, it's reasonably easy to unbrick it."

        Yeah, for _US_.

        I'm by no stretch of the imagination a n00b when it comes to using computers (I've got a few grey hairs popping up). I can make a desktop do things that completely baffle 90% of computer users, even fairly advanced users. I can make fairly substantive modifications to apps and can code rudimentary but functional apps or programs from scratch in Java/C# (essentially the same language :), Python and am taking the first steps to branch out into cpp.

        Yet, when it came to installing LineageOS I was struck by how wild-west the whole AOSP scene was.

        The "freedom" of Android devices is little more than a pipe dream, unattainable to the majority of users. Most devices are bootloader locked and ununlockable. There's no difference in freedom between iOS and Android, and, at least iOS offers you a longer support window than ANY commercial Android has ever offered (around 5 years) and modern iOS allows you to uninstall nearly every single app--none of the extreme bloatware that characterises commercial Android.

        The reason I went to AOSP wasn't because of any ideological leaning (though, I do have a soft spot for F/LOSS) but, because as a switching iOS user I was used to the OS allowing me to do what _I_ wanted to do.

        Samsung offered me only their way or the highway. On a 16 GB device over 11 GB of space was used just for the OS and base apps. Disabled apps also didn't remain disabled (looking at you remote control app). And, battery life was dismal, thanks to the combination of Samsung's own bloatware and all of the Google bloatware (thanks Google+) that was uninstallable and undisableable.

        LineageOS (formerly CyanogenMod) was a breath of fresh air, especially after I figured out I could choose to install just the very smallest Google apps package (Google is _terrible_ for battery life).

        And, even for the devices where the bootloader is unlockable it's not simple to install LineageOS.

        And, once you actually get LineageOS on the machine, you discover quickly that there are some pretty big limitations when it comes to hardware support (camera support is rudimentary, at best).

        Plus, the piracy is quite sad. I can proudly say that I don't run a single piece of pirated software on my phones--and, it seems like I'm in the minority :(.

  18. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    Separation of platform

    I agree with the article and the previous one about the overall Google ecosystem. There is a fundamental issue around Apple iOS and Android device vendors locking the platforms down.

    There needs to be:

    Physical Phone

    Firmware & Bootloader - locked down - unlocked?

    Recovery ROM - potentially open - e.g. TWRP

    Android ROM - Telco supplied / open - e.g. LineageOS

    GApps / Amazon Store / another Store - as an optional install (e.g OpenGApps minimal)

    I've had the pleasure of having an old Motorola phone that was unlocked, TWRP and CyanogenMod with a minimal GApps. All the choices were mine - even down to the Android ROM I was using.

    Even if the Android ROM is telco supplied and the phone is locked down to allow the telco to provide a warranty on the device - there should be the ability to chose the store etc.

    In addition, if a user wants a different Android ROM channel for their device - then there should be an option for that - but outside of warranty and at users risk.

    1. Charles 9

      Re: Separation of platform

      But that won't solve the problem of apps not trusting the environment if it isn't "pristine". And they have the out of "user tampering" to justify their suspicions. What good's the OS if the apps won't play ball?

    2. alpha_juniper

      Re: Separation of platform

      "There is a fundamental issue around Apple iOS and Android device vendors locking the platforms down"

      While I agree with you wholeheartedly in principle, in practice I see problems.

      First, you actually DO have choice in that you can already buy devices that are bootloader unlockable/unlocked. Many manufacturers have offered and continue to sell devices that can be bootloader unlocked. They just don't advertise that fact and it's often only their premium devices or carrier independent devices (e.g. Sony has a long history of allowing bootloaders on their premium devices to be unlocked).

      So, you can already do that. Just not with everything.

      That said, I see room for improvement there.

      In Canada regulators finally forced the hands of the local telco companies to carrier unlock phones that customers had paid for in full. It used to be that the telcos either refused to carrier unlock their phones outright or charged you 50 to 100 CAD (30-60 euro) for the privilege of doing so.

      It doesn't seem like a stretch to require handset makers to do the same for devices that the customer owns outright. HOWEVER, the key difference is that over 95% of users NEVER even would take advantage of that ability. There isn't the same pressure on regulators or device manufacturers to unlock bootloaders.

      Second, it's not just warranty, but, also REPUTATION. If a device is provided with an unlocked bootloader many people DO STILL expect support. People are largely UNREASONABLE. People don't take responsibility for their actions. I see it all the time in my line of work.

      Heck, _I_ have caught myself having unreasonable expectations and climbed off my high horse.

      What happens when you brick your device after having installed a recovery and wiped system and data? (of course, said person probably never even knew what system or data were). You're going to be annoyed with Samsung for not getting you out of the mess YOU created.

      Third, the vast majority of users don't ever ACT on the ability to choose operating systems. We only have to look at the desktop to see that. Linux can be installed on pretty much every single PC whether it be Mac or Windows based. Despite that fact FEWER than 2% of the world's desktop users have EVER installed another operating system on their computer other than Windows or Mac.

      People buy high powered, UPGRADEABLE hardware to promptly never upgrade it and complain about how the computer becomes slower. I've seen that story play out for over three decades now! If someone ever asks me for my opinion on whether to buy the expandable option or not I almost always counsel them to get the unupgradeable option (which is cheaper) because they'll NEVER, EVER use it. So far I've never had someone complain about that aspect of my recommendations :).

      Windows isn't perfect, by a LONG shot, even Windows 10. Yet, despite that fact people don't flock to a distro like Ubuntu, which, arguably, for a substantial minority (perhaps even majority) offers an experience on par with or even better than what is offered by Windows 10.

      Most people use their desktop as little more than a web browser and word processor. Ubuntu is perfect for that and actually has fewer headaches once installed (my Windows devices constantly are losing wifi connectivity... Windows 10 doesn't like switching wifi networks ;).

      In conclusion, yes, you raise excellent points. In practice, they will fall on deaf ears because there's no ground swell of user support.

      In the case of Google's anti-competitive behaviour, yes, the EU had a compelling reason to act because Google was abusing its dominant position. But, in the case of "open" handsets, there's much less of a legal case to be made because there ALREADY IS a lot of choice out there. Just because one hand set maker doesn't provide unlocked bootloaders doesn't prevent others from doing so.

      Google also doesn't prevent handset makers from selling unlocked/unlockable bootloaders.

      In fact, from Google's perspective, it's those devices with unlocked bootloaders that provide Google with the best free value in terms of R&D. Enthusiasts install AOSP distros and do things with them that handset makers don't allow their users to do. What is popular on those distros then can flow back into AOSP which can then flow back into commercial Android.

  19. alpha_juniper

    The sky isn't falling

    Android never has been free. It's been this strange mythology that Android devices are "free" (as in libre). They're not. Most devices are locked down tighter than an iPhone with far worse support.

    This move by a Chinese company probably reflects either their own bad experiences with reputation damage or support costs or political meddling by the Chinese authorities. I doubt it's Huawei "taking advantage" of the EU's ruling. More like the Register taking advantage of the ruling to generate click-bait headlines :).

    If it's political it's because AOSP-based distros allow Chinese citizens to make changes to their devices that Chinese Google-free Android doesn't allow for. Those changes are not what the Chinese authorities want since it allows people to bypass the great fire wall of China.

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