back to article Windows 10 IoT Core Services unleashed to public preview

Be still your beating hearts, Microsoft’s Windows 10 IoT Core Services has hit public preview and the software giant has indicated just how much it is all going to cost. Microsoft is keen to get a foothold in the Internet of Things (IoT) market. In 2015 it released a slimmed-down version of Windows 10 aimed at IoT devices, …

  1. Ken Moorhouse Silver badge

    Well if MS are offering to do that...

    ...then they are well-equipped to pull the plug on rogue IoT devices. I suppose they can only do that though if the device is subscribed.

    I've said before that block-holders of MAC addresses should pay in to a fund which polices the IoT landscape and shuts down rogues devices by applying some kind of ARP poisoning technique to the LAN they are on. Perhaps MS can assume this role, if they can be trusted with it.

    1. pɹɐʍoɔ snoɯʎuouɐ
      Coffee/keyboard

      Re: Well if MS are offering to do that...

      "MS can assume this role, if they can be trusted with it."

      you sir, you owe me a new keyboard.

    2. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      'Perhaps MS can assume this role, if they can be trusted with it'

      Trust at Microsoft has long left the building. It started with low-down dirty upgrade tricks or Win10 behaving pretty much like Malware, What's changed? Nothing has improved since.

      ---------------

      https://www.theinquirer.net/inquirer/news/3028147/updategate-microsoft-is-forcing-windows-10-build-1709-to-users-who-opted-out

      http://www.theregister.co.uk/2016/06/27/woman_microsoft_windows_10_upgrades/

      1. Teiwaz

        Re: 'Perhaps MS can assume this role, if they can be trusted with it'

        It started with low-down dirty upgrade tricks

        Dirty tricks started long before that.

        Even the old FUD Linux Cancer campaign was not the prow of the MS malevolent gleefully ramming any other ship on the bay.

        1. CrazyOldCatMan Silver badge

          Re: 'Perhaps MS can assume this role, if they can be trusted with it'

          Dirty tricks started long before that.

          As IBM and DR-DOS (and Lotus) discovered in the early/mid 1990's. And Doublespace.

        2. Red Ted

          Re: 'Perhaps MS can assume this role, if they can be trusted with it'

          There is court evidence of MS making Windows V3 throw odd errors if you installed it on Digital Research DR-DOS instead of MS-DOS.

          1. Richard Plinston

            Re: 'Perhaps MS can assume this role, if they can be trusted with it'

            > Windows V3 throw odd errors if you installed it on Digital Research DR-DOS

            Search for "AARD code"

    3. CheesyTheClown

      Re: Well if MS are offering to do that...

      Some of us don't use registered MAC addresses. We simply use duplicate address detection and randomize. There's really no benefit to registered MAC addresses anymore. Simply set the 7th bit to 1 and use a DAD method.

      Also consider that many of us don't use Ethernet for connectivity. There are many other solutions for IoT. A friend of mine just brought up a 1.2 million node multinational IoT network on LTE.

      MAC address filtering and management is basically a dead end. There's just no value in it for many of us. It really only adds a massive management overhead to production of devices. And layer-2 is so bunged to begin with that random MAC addresses with DAD can't really make it any worse.

      1. Ken Moorhouse Silver badge

        Re: Some of us don't use registered MAC addresses.

        My comment was aimed at those people who unbox, plug-in and use. Those are the people whose IoT devices need 'killing' if turned into zombies. The IoT devices I've seen all quote traditional MAC addresses so basing my comment also on personal observation. Those that have moved on from those times will not be at risk of being turned into zombies en masse, and will be impervious to kill switches as I envisage them.

  2. Mike Lewis

    Updating

    > the Windows Update infrastructure on which the service runs is very much tried and tested

    Is that the same one which struggles to update Windows 7?

    1. Remy Redert

      Re: Updating

      It says tried and tested. Not tried and found to be a workable solution for updating an OS.

      1. Paul Crawford Silver badge

        Re: Updating

        Also what guarantees that the upgrades in 5-10 years will still fit the storage on budget IoT devices built now?

  3. teknopaul

    tried and tested windows update

    I defo feel tried and tested by it.

    Compared to setting up a .deb repo and creating debs which is a sinch and pretty solid tech.

    Installing software on windblows is always an annoyance. Uninstalling is worse or impossible.

    Most apps realise its worth rolling your own update system compared to what comes by default with windows. Which is pretty much nothing other that a page of links to various uninstall.exe applications.

    I do understand there is more to msi infra. If its got anything why do most if not al windows app devs avoid it?

    1. Richard 12 Silver badge

      Re: tried and tested windows update

      MSI is poorly documented and there aren't any decent ways of configuring it.

      There is a very simple one that comes with Visual Studio, but it's only sufficient for trivial applications.

      The two might be related.

      That's why pretty much everyone uses InstallShield or NSIS. Even though InstallShield is expensive and rubbish.

    2. TheVogon

      Re: tried and tested windows update

      "Compared to setting up a .deb repo and creating debs which is a sinch and pretty solid tech."

      Versus simply clicking on an update button?

      1. CrazyOldCatMan Silver badge

        Re: tried and tested windows update

        Versus simply clicking on an update button?

        Well, it does omit the "crossing your fingers and hoping that the MS update doesn't kill your device" stage..

      2. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        Re: tried and tested windows update

        "Versus simply clicking on an update button?"

        Huh? So I can simply click an update button to turn something into an MSI package in Windows now? If you are comparing updating client OS, then yes it is just one button in Linux too. Perhaps learn a bit more about the topic before responding next time?

    3. dajames
      Headmaster

      A Saddle Girth

      Compared to setting up a .deb repo and creating debs which is a sinch and pretty solid tech.

      I'm indebted to you, #teknopaul, for encouraging me to wonder about the origin of the word "cinch" (by misspelling it).

      Apparently it comes from the Spanish-American word "cincha" meaning a saddle-girth (the strap that goes around the horse to hold the saddle in place, making it safe and secure). You learn something every day!

  4. SVV

    Wow, that's appealing

    "By paying Microsoft a fee, device manufacturers can take their 10 years of Windows 10 support via the Windows Long-Term Servicing Channel, "

    Soon to be known as the Expensive Decade of Hell.

    1. Steve Davies 3 Silver badge
      FAIL

      Re: Wow, that's appealing

      And the cheapo end of the market will look at $0.30/device/month and laugh the MS Sales droid right out of their offices. They have BSD or Linux for free.

      As for them updating their devices once they have shipped?

      ROFLMAO

      Finally, aren't these things already a huge security risk? And that's without installing an OS that is well known for 'phoning home' with all sorts of data. And then what happens when the OS decides that it has been pirated and stops the device from Operating? No lights in your house then.

      I wonder what those in Redmond have been smoking?

      1. Teiwaz

        Re: Wow, that's appealing

        I wonder what those in Redmond have been smoking?

        Just a big circle of bent over backs, faces inserted between cheeks of colleague in front and breathing deeply.

    2. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: Expensive Decade of Hell

      This says a lot about where our society is going

      https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-44829976

      How long before ALL our income is eaten up by subscriptions or as my father calls it

      "The real never-never society."

      Only the Mega Rich corporations own anything. Then we will see the return to the days of only being able to buy stuff at the Company (i.e. Amazon as this is where they want to be) store.

      "another day older and deeper in debt"

      1. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        "This says a lot about where our society is going"

        It's called "trickle up" economy. Make people pay over and over, and more, for the same thing, so money climbs the pyramid and concentrates at the top.

        Just, as French Terror showed, pyramids too much top heavy, may fall.... and usually they do in a bloody way.

      2. annodomini2

        Re: Expensive Decade of Hell

        "Only the Mega Rich corporations own anything."

        Neo-feudalism

        1. Teiwaz

          Re: Expensive Decade of Hell

          "Only the Mega Rich corporations own anything."

          Neo-feudalism

          Might be good for the soul - might lead to a kind of Neo-buddishm - all possessions are a burden* after all.

          * Some are necessary, but as a civilisation, we've carried it too far.

    3. Richard 12 Silver badge

      Re: Wow, that's appealing

      So $36 for a 10 year update licence. That's similar to what the Windows XP POS licence used to cost.

      I actually wonder what the catch is. What's missing from this version?

      I mean, what's missing that users care about?

      1. Richard 12 Silver badge

        Re: Wow, that's appealing

        Ah. What's missing is the ability to run any useful applications.

        This edition can only run one UWP app, it doesn't have the Win32 susbsystem.

        So it's not Windows. It's a Windows Phone, and can barely do kiosk work.

      2. CrazyOldCatMan Silver badge

        Re: Wow, that's appealing

        Windows XP POS licence

        I'm always amused by how the acronym 'POS' can be read two ways..

    4. TheVogon

      Re: Wow, that's appealing

      "Soon to be known as the Expensive Decade of Hell."

      For those that ignored Microsoft's comments that the LTSB was not for standard desktops (defined as anything that runs MS Office) anyway.

  5. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    And every one of those devices will overheat while scanning for updates.

  6. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    What happens when the company you bought the device off stops trading or decides to end support? Who would buy cheap IoT tat where you have to pay a subscription? Answers on a postcard, usual address.

  7. hplasm
    Facepalm

    ...a slimmed-down version of Windows 10 aimed at IoT devices...

    ".., such as industrial machinery or the ubiquitous Arm-based Raspberry Pi (for those moments when Debian just doesn't quite cut it.)"

    Only works on fucking Opposite Day then?

  8. dajames

    February 30th?

    ... for those moments when Debian just doesn't quite cut it.

    Which moments would those be, then? I must have missed them ...

    1. Nate Amsden

      Re: February 30th?

      When you want 10 years of support? When you don't want systemd?

      (Debian user since 1998 - wondering when support for Debian 7 will run out and I will have to do another round of upgrades, probably going to the Deuvian(sp))

  9. martinusher Silver badge

    0.30 doesn't sound much....

    ...until you remember its 'per device' and 'per month'.

    The IoT enthusiasts just don't get it. Embedded devices have firmware to mechanize them and they expose external interfaces to monitor and control them. A well crafted -- and tested -- device should be "turn it on and leave it for the rest of its life". You do not want to suffer the performance and compatibility issues that plague user products like PCs. You may have to update the firmware if there is a weakness in an external interface but otherwise the unit needs to be left alone.

    But then there's no money in making 'things', its all about 'subscriptions' -- the rentier mindset.

    (Also, note that the reason why SCADA products are proving to be so unsafe is that manufacturers insisted on building them on Windows -- a triumph of Marketing over Engineering.)

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