back to article UK.gov is ready to talk data safeguards with the EU – but still wants it all

The UK government has insisted it's in the European Union's best interests to grant it a souped-up agreement on the protection and sharing of personal data post-Brexit and wants to start talks now. In the long-awaited Brexit white paper – over which two secretaries of state have resigned – the government outlined its new, …

  1. Pen-y-gors

    DNA?

    Similarly, if the UK were given access to the EU's Prüm DNA exchange tool, its five million DNA profiles "would nearly double those currently available".

    So, UK has 13% of EU population, and 50% of the DNA samples? If we have that high a rate of convicted serious criminals then I think the EU will be glad to see the back of the UK. Or maybe I'm misunderstanding things and it's just that the UK police are ignoring GDPR and taking and keeping far more DNA samples from innocent people than they can justify. Surely not...

    1. technoise

      Re: DNA?

      Doesn't GDPR have exceptions for law enforcement and security?

    2. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: DNA?

      The idea of using an offer of access to the UK's criminal DNA database, to the EU, as a bargaining chip is really quite bizarre - it really highlights a fundamental difference in attitude between the UK and the EU with regard to the rights of the individual.

      The UK just doesn't seem to, or is simply refusing to understand. How it thinks it will achieve anything with such an approach is beyond me.

    3. Loyal Commenter Silver badge

      Re: DNA?

      Beat me to the comment on this one! I was going to suggest that maybe the other governments of the EU aren't quite as fetishistic about collecting innocent people's DNA as the Maybot.

  2. Warm Braw

    DNA exchange tool

    I'm not sure it's a great way to persuade the EU of our ability to safeguard personal information that we've collected as many DNA profiles as all the remaining EU members put together.

    Mind you, "DNA exchange tool" sounds like it could describe many present and former members of the cabinet...

    (Edit: Apologies to above - great minds think alike...)

    1. The Nazz

      Re: DNA exchange tool

      I may be sadistic, i may be an out an out perve, but why oh why did i think this referred to :

      John Major (s dick) and Edwina Curry.

      Ruined my own appetite now.

      ps i am also told by a long term friend who has worked all their life for the NHS and now a Consultant that the NHS takes DNA from every new born child and has done for some years now. Anyone care to denounce this?

  3. Voland's right hand Silver badge

    We have read the cake

    There is no way in hell this will survive the inevitable ECHR/ECJ cases.

    Not that any agreement will be reached considering that ECHR/ECJ jurisdiction is a given for Eu and is a No-Go for UK.

  4. Will Godfrey Silver badge
    Unhappy

    Conflicted

    This has reached the point where I don't know whether to laugh or cry.

    1. Chris G

      Re: Conflicted

      Perhaps you should just keep laughing until you cry.

      The UK giv still doesn't get ( or doesy want to get) GDPR, suggesting that the Data Protection Act has much in common with GDPR and will effectively enhance it.

      Also suggesting the UK will abide by European Court requirements, when getting away from it is one of the core reasons for May continuing with Brexit.

      1. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        Re: Conflicted

        "...the Data Protection Act has much in common with GDPR and will effectively enhance it."

        Enhance it for whom - the data subject, or the data user?

    2. Version 1.0 Silver badge

      Re: Conflicted

      This has reached the point where I don't know whether to laugh or cry. - I just want to take a dump every time our political geniuses releases another one of these papers - it's the only sane use for them.

      As for the politicians on all sides ... I'd suggest soylent green but you'd need a lot of ketchup...

      1. Teiwaz

        Re: Conflicted

        I'd suggest soylent green but you'd need a lot of ketchup...

        By the time they are finished making a dogs dinner of the Uk, you'll wolf down every crumb and be glad of it and also sleep soundly in the knowledge the next white paper they'd come into contact with is bogroll.

    3. big_D Silver badge
      Facepalm

      Re: Conflicted

      So, the UK wants "out", but it wants to stay in... Glad that is sorted.

      1. codejunky Silver badge

        Re: Conflicted

        @ big_D

        "So, the UK wants "out", but it wants to stay in... Glad that is sorted."

        Almost. The UK wants out and the politicians want in. The end result likely pleasing nobody.

        1. Version 1.0 Silver badge

          Re: Conflicted

          "The UK wants out and the politicians want in. The end result likely pleasing nobody."

          Seems like most of the politicians who "want out" are moving abroad ... they are all rich and very happy.

        2. hammarbtyp

          Re: Conflicted

          U wants out and some politicians want in.

          Fixed it for ya

        3. Loyal Commenter Silver badge

          Re: Conflicted

          "So, the UK wants "out", but it wants to stay in... Glad that is sorted."

          Almost. The UK wants out and the politicians want in. The end result likely pleasing nobody.

          Keep trying; Arron Banks, Nigel Farage, Vladimir Putin, Donald Trump, Boris Johnson, Rupert Murdoch, Lord Rothermere, Jacob Rees-Mogg, Slithy Gove, the Barclay bros, Piers Morgan et al all want us out, each for their own pretty obvious self-interested reasons. Several of those people had enough influence to convince a swathe of voters that it was in their interest too (spoiler: it isn't).

          Most professional politicians who know enough about what the EU does, how it works, and how it benefits the UK (and yes, how much it costs in return) on balance thought it was a pretty good arrangement.

          May was stupid enough to take the poisoned chalice that Cameron left her after making a promise (beyond his authority) to implement the result of an advisory referendum. She is now reaping the rewards: trying to produce the undefined and undeliverable for the 'clear majority' (a third of the registered voters), many of whom have realised that they were hoodwinked and have changed their mind.

          Over a hundred thousand people marched through London a few weeks ago to make their feelings felt against brexit. Even at the height of the campaigning, there weren't that many fervent pro-brexit supporters. Oh, and the voice of the brexiteers? A counter-march of a few hundred angry gammons. I'm not sure why they were all angry, but they were. They should "get over it"; they "won".

          1. codejunky Silver badge

            Re: Conflicted

            @ Loyal Commenter

            "all want us out"

            +52%

            "Most professional politicians who know enough about what the EU does, how it works, and how it benefits the UK"

            In their nice little pockets. And when someone like Blair comes along to sell us out for a shot at US president we can see the benefits. I think Greece saw the benefits too before they were cut in EU imposed economic damage.

            "May was stupid enough to take the poisoned chalice that Cameron"

            Yes. A weak remainer trying to organise brexit, not a good sign.

            "many of whom have realised that they were hoodwinked and have changed their mind."

            So the wet dreamers tell us, the same wet dreamers who cant understand a democratic vote and majority result. http://www.continentaltelegraph.com/brexit/disastrous-brexit-process-means-more-brits-want-to-leave-eu/

            "Over a hundred thousand people marched through London a few weeks ago to make their feelings felt against brexit."

            I know it is a complicated concept so I will have a go at explaining it. We had a vote. The people could vote either way. People voted. The result is in. It doesnt matter that the minority dont like it, nor that a minority of the minority dont like it. Suck it up buttercup.

            "Even at the height of the campaigning, there weren't that many fervent pro-brexit supporters."

            The ones who understand the concept of voting and therefore legitimately voted for the outcome instead of mob attempts to enforce a minority view? Makes sense.

            "A counter-march of a few hundred angry gammons. I'm not sure why they were all angry, but they were. They should "get over it"; they "won"."

            Gammons is not as fun as eurosceptic. Eurosceptic is a great badge which resembles what we were against and of course a nice label to take when we were proven right. Gammon just makes me hungry. I have no idea why they were angry, possibly because crybabies throwing insults and tantrums since the referendum irritating their last nerve.

            "They should "get over it"; they "won"."

            Maybe if remain voters would keep repeating that last bit it might sink in as to why we are leaving. Or give a clue about voting. Maybe even learn something about democracy. Or maybe they will just go back on the streets shouting how they are right and everyone else is wrong, waaaaaa.

            1. Loyal Commenter Silver badge

              Re: Conflicted

              @codejunky

              The usual rock-solid arguments, mixed with name-calling I see.

              'Eurosceptic' is a marvellous self-given label, isn't it. Sadly, the adherents seem to fail in the ability to employ scepticism (rational weighing of the facts) and eschew it for emotive cries, distortions of the facts, cherry-picking and outright lies. Goebbels himself advocated the far-right presenting itself as something it is not in order to win popular opinion. Presumably this is why the far-right Tory europhobes euphemistically call themselves by the reasonable-sounding monicker of 'European Research Group', when the amount of research into Europe involved is zero.

              FWIW, the 'counter-protesters' I previously refereed to as gammons were all the sort of far-right thugs you'd expect to see up in front of the beak for fighting in the town centre on a Friday night. Several with their 'free tommy' T-shirts, blurry neck tattoos, EDL banners, etc. With those on the 'People's March', there was a party atmosphere. The only interaction with the pro-leave lot was when some of them escaped the police cordon kettling them in, and decided to try to walk through the crowd in parliament square throwing abuse at all and sundry. That, and the ones pissed up in the pub between Parliament Square and Vauxhall Bridge similarly shouting abuse at passers-by. Now, I appreciate that these people don't represent everyone who voted leave. They can, however, be considered to represent those who feel strongly enough about it to turn up to protest for the sort of hard brexit you have advocated yourself.

              You should maybe reconsider the company you are keeping.

              1. codejunky Silver badge

                Re: Conflicted

                @ Loyal Commenter

                "'Eurosceptic' is a marvellous self-given label, isn't it."

                It wasnt self given. When we had the same arguments over the Euro in the UK as we do over membership we who didnt fall for the currency were called Eurosceptics. We were labelled and the label was associated with idiots and racists etc. And when we were proven right the label vanished. I keep it about to remind those who were vastly mistaken.

                "and eschew it for emotive cries, distortions of the facts, cherry-picking and outright lies"

                Such as the punishment budget. Back of the queue with the US (the wording chosen by Cameron and spoke by Obama). Pretending the EU is not in multiple crises (self inflicted). Believing the fall in currency and improvement of the economy to be a bad thing. Yup you remainers match that line perfectly. Glass houses are fun.

                "Goebbels himself advocated the far-right presenting itself as something it is not in order to win popular opinion."

                Are we bordering Godwins law? The club to look after each other, except Greece. Lands of laws, so many laws, but only some need to be followed and not others. A capitalist dream and a socialist utopia. Yup the EU ticks box's there but I dont think they are far left or right, just incompetent. They do seem to be fearing the left and right parties because any party against the EU or Euro seems to suddenly get a boost of support.

                "FWIW, the 'counter-protesters' I previously refereed to as gammons were all the sort of far-right thugs you'd expect to see up in front of the beak for fighting in the town centre on a Friday night."

                I can believe it. Just like the intolerant mobs against democracy.

                "They can, however, be considered to represent those who feel strongly enough about it to turn up to protest for the sort of hard brexit you have advocated yourself."

                Of course these people turn up for a hard brexit. So what? The amusing idea that remainers are any better? Those marching with absolute hatred and intolerance regardless of their view, but its ok if they are on your side? Sod that an idiot is an idiot.

                "You should maybe reconsider the company you are keeping."

                Why? What is wrong with the company I am keeping? Do you somehow imagine that we are all thugs? Or is it the few that you use to tar the rest? That is a good way to avoid facts, its like the XFactor brexit competition of 'well you support Farage' 'Yeah you support Blair'. Instead of such mob rule we use democratic voting. If your against that- "You should maybe reconsider the company you are keeping."

          2. LucreLout

            Re: Conflicted

            Over a hundred thousand people marched through London a few weeks ago to make their feelings felt against brexit.

            This won't be a popular view on a left wing message board, which is why I've backstopped everything with references and facts. Reason matters, emotion doesn't.

            I know that 100,000 sounds like a lot of people, but it really isn't. More people will go to watch the Rolling Stones in the UK this year. Labour ignored about a million people marching against their wars, without any mandate what-so-ever for what they were doing. [1] The biggest peacetime march in UK history, and it literally may as well not have happened for what it achieved. Hell, an awful lot of those people turned around and voted for labour at the next general election anyway.

            At the last general election, over 85% of people voted for a party committed to Brexit (Conservative, Labour, UKIP). More than 27 million people on a turn out of about 32 million.[2] Only about a million voted for the one party offering to cancel Brexit (Liberal).

            Whether you agree with Brexit or not, there is simply no mileage in pretending it isn't the democratically expressed choice of the population of the UK, both in the referendum and at the general election. More people voted for Brexit than have ever voted for anything in the history of the UK ever. [3][4]

            Protest if it makes you happy. Protest if it makes you feel better. Protest if its your idea of a fun day out. Just don't protest because you think it will change anything. The shameful reality is that, when it comes to protesters, nobody is listening. And I'm not sure anyone ever has......

            1 - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/15_February_2003_anti-war_protests#United_Kingdom

            2 - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_Kingdom_general_election,_2017#Summary

            3 - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_Kingdom_European_Union_membership_referendum,_2016#Result

            4 - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_United_Kingdom_general_elections

            1. Anonymous Coward
              Anonymous Coward

              Re: Conflicted

              @LucreLout

              Unfortunately, you're probably right.

              The only thing those in power will take notice of is force, ie non peaceful action.

              Which is what they'll get when the penny drops that no one is listening.

              Democracy, yeah we've heard of it...

  5. nematoad
    WTF?

    ?

    All this shuffling around, requests to be half-in half-out of many of the EU agencies like Europol and Euratom. Convoluted schemes to prevent a hard border in Ireland, admissions that we will all be worse off when the UK leaves, not to mention Galileo, makes me wonder why we should bother if all we are going to do is lose out.

    What I want to know is what's in it for the likes of Nigel Farage, Arron Banks, Boris Johnson and the rest of that scurvy crew? Some like Lord Lawson are openly showing that they are hypocrites having recent applied for a a 'carte de séjour' so as he can remain in his luxury abode in France. There must be something really big in it for the others to sell the country down the river like they are.

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: ?

      "makes me wonder why we should bother if all we are going to do is lose out"

      my view was where we were with the EU was just about acceptable ... though the refusal to give any meaningful ground to Cameron when he went to the other leaders saying he needed reasons to persuade the UK voters to vote remain was a warning. However, it felt clear to my mind that the direction the EU (or the Brussels EU "elite") wanted to go in wasn't where I wanted to be so I'd hoped the UK voting leave would be a wake-up call to the rest of the EU which would result in the core countries being able to move forward to a more federal "United States of Europe" while the rest remained in a peripherary in a (free) trade zone (i.e. basically back to the original EEC model from 1973).

      Anyway it maybe grimly amusing to see how the EU neact to losing the UK budget contributions as from what I've read/heard it looks like they'll have to cut back on all the programs that the anti-EU side in the UK objected to ... sort of an inverse Groucho Marx "I'll only leave a club that would stoip the things I don't like if I left"

    2. John Smith 19 Gold badge
      Unhappy

      "What I want to know.what's in it for the likes of..Farage, A. Banks,.Johnson and the rest of

      that scurvy crew?"

      That's the question you should always ask when a politician (or wannabe politician, or bankroller of politicians)

      The big one is Rees-Mogg, who's Somerset Capital set up an Irish branch and who's on £20k/month for 35 hours "work" (that's his declare pay. He's also on a dividend of unknown size). Not bad for a History graduate, eh?

      Somerst Capital (supposedly) specializes in "Emerging markets" but I'd have thought China and India have already "emerged" from being 3rd world countries.

      Maybe he's looking to turn the UK into an "emerging market opportunity" ?

      1. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        Re: "What I want to know.what's in it for the likes of..Farage, A. Banks,.Johnson and the rest of

        I'm yet to be convinced that Boris isn't working for the Russians.

    3. Stork Silver badge

      Re: ?

      Farage probably believes in leaving being A Good Thing. Anyway, as the vote went his way he left the practicalities to others.

      Banks, I don't know. Perhaps business opportunities, in Russia?

      BoJo: That one is to me obvious, he saw it as his best bet to become PM instead of the PM. TO me he has never come across as anyone guided by ideas or principles, apart from of his own magnificence. Sort of Trump light.

      1. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        Re: ?

        @Stork; Yes, you are correct. Johnson (#) *did* use the future of the UK as a political football purely to serve his own ambitions and better position himself within the Tory party as potential leader. It's still exceptionally questionable whether he genuinely believed Brexit was in the UK's interests or whether he ever intended to actually win.

        But that's absolutely par for the course, because Brexit always *was* about placing internal squabbles within the Tory party over what was best for the United Kingdom, starting- as it did- as a grossly-misjudged sop by Cameron to placate the hard right of his own party

        They won because Useful Idiots (##) wanted to send a signal to Westminster and ended up playing into the hands of the same hard right Tories and anti-NHS UKIPpers.

        It was about the Tories when Leave won and there was the complete (and utterly shameful) absence of leadership or direction, with the most "important" thing being- again- who was going to be in charge of the Conservative party, and their jostling and backstabbing.

        And due to the utter incompetence of a weak leader who shot herself in the foot by messing up an unnecessary election and made herself hostage to that same hard-right wing of that party, Brexit- and the future of the United Kingdom- is still being dominated by the personal wants, desires and conflicts within the Tory party.

        (#) I won't refer to him by the cutesy name "BoJo" as this just panders to the "likeably bumbling but harmless" image that allowed this malignly self-serving- and still incompetent, but damagingly so- politician to slip under the radar for far too long. It's also why I don't like jokes making fun of Rees-Mogg's out-of-touch poshness funny- though nominally critical, they essentially play along with the British (or more particularly, English) tendency to *affectionately* lampoon their upper class and render them more harmless than they are. That mistake was already made once with Johnson.

        (##) The same ones who believed the (already disproven if they'd been paying attention) lies about £350m for the NHS and bullshit about immigration from Leave campaign whose poster girl Priti Patel (quite openly if they'd been paying attention) wanted to use Brexit as an excuse to increase immigration from the Indian subcontinent.

        1. Loyal Commenter Silver badge

          Re: ?

          (#) I won't refer to him by the cutesy name "BoJo" as this just panders to the "likeably bumbling but harmless" image that allowed this malignly self-serving- and still incompetent, but damagingly so- politician to slip under the radar for far too long.

          I prefer the accurate and full: extremely privileged New York born Eton boy and Oxford graduate, Bullingdon club member and gutter journalist, Alexander Boris De Pfeffle Johnson.

          1. LucreLout

            Re: ?

            I prefer the accurate and full: extremely privileged New York born Eton boy and Oxford graduate, Bullingdon club member and gutter journalist, Alexander Boris De Pfeffle Johnson.

            As opposed to the not so honourable, extremely privileged, rather hypocritical [sent son to selective school], Surrey born child of the United Nations Assistant Secretary-General, and barrister, Lady Nugee of Islington? Wife of a QC, a high court judge, and tweeter of white van pictures?

            Or Emily Thorbers as she prefers?

            Lets not pretend rosette colour seperates the troughers, because it really doesn't!

        2. John Smith 19 Gold badge
          Unhappy

          "I won't refer to him by the cutesy name "BoJo""

          Indeed.

          "Johnson" is an old American slang term for a male member.

          And as I've always thought of him as a complete cock...

          "I am deeply ashamed of my time in the Bullinghma Club."

          Was he f**k.

      2. Graham Cobb Silver badge

        Re: ?

        BoJo didn't want to become PM instead of the PM. Everyone knew that the "leaving" job was a poisoned chalice and whoever did it would be immediately removed (and happy to go) once it was over, whatever happened. Theresa May realised that was her only chance of becoming PM so went for it. BoJo is just continuing his positioning to stand after Brexit is over.

        He knew he would have to resign, over a "point of principle", at some point to set himself up as a future saviour. He would probably have preferred to leave it a little later so it was fresher in people's minds when he comes back, but his hand was pretty forced if he didn't want to start being considered responsible for the mess.

        1. John Smith 19 Gold badge
          Unhappy

          "his hand was..forced if he didn't want to start being considered responsible for the mess."

          True (and because in fact he is partly responsible for this mess)

          Didn't stop him getting the Ministerial car back to London did it?

          Because getting into a mini cab is sooo undignified (especially if like him you have a little extra round the camp fire).

          As far as he's concerned "principles" are the plural of "principle," a word he's seen in a dictionary, sometime.

    4. hammarbtyp

      Re: ?

      One word - Tax

      The EU directive for full transparency on Tax avoidance comes into being in 2019

  6. SVV

    Dear club we just stormed out off in a fit of rage

    Can we still do all those things in the club that we liked doing whilst we were in the club? Whilst we're still out of the club? Because we don't want to be in the club anymore. But we still want to do those things. So let's find a way of doing all the nice club things. Without being in the club obviously. Because that makes perfect sense.

    1. Lars Silver badge

      Re: Dear club we just stormed out off in a fit of rage

      @SVV

      Quoting Wikipedia on the Prüm Convention:

      "While the Decisions were originally applicable to all EU member states, the United Kingdom subsequently exercised their right to opt-out from them effective 1 December 2014.[9] However, the UK committed to assess their future participation and make a decision by 31 December 2015 on whether to rejoin the Decisions.[10] On 22 January 2016 the UK notified the EU of its desire to resume participating in the Prum Decisions, which was approved by the Commission on 20 May 2016"

    2. Roland6 Silver badge

      Re: Dear club we just stormed out off in a fit of rage

      >Can we still do all those things in the club that we liked doing whilst we were in the club?

      I'm sure it can be arranged, however, there is a price on this, I suggest the EU simply creates a new grade of "associate" (note it can not have the word 'member' attached as that would imply membership and the UK votes to cease it's 'membership') as this grade retains many of the benefits of membership the cost of this status is the normal membership fee rebated to reflect the various (new) opt outs...

      1. Pen-y-gors

        Re: Dear club we just stormed out off in a fit of rage

        @Roland6

        Problem is that you can't retain the benefits of membership without also accepting the obligations. The four principles? The EU might be willing to do something along those lines, but it wouldn't be a rebate for opt-outs, it would be a massive extra charge to opt-out of e.g. free movement.

        No cherry-picking...

        1. Doctor Syntax Silver badge

          Re: Dear club we just stormed out off in a fit of rage

          "The four principles?"

          Principles. That's the problem. It's a word that confuses a lot of UK politicians.

        2. Roland6 Silver badge

          Re: Dear club we just stormed out off in a fit of rage

          @Pen-y-gors

          " but it wouldn't be a rebate for opt-outs, it would be a massive extra charge to opt-out of e.g. free movement."

          So a (massive) negative rebate then :)

  7. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    Its only a short-term kludge anyway. As soon as May is out and the fellow travellers sign up to the terms of Trump's free trade agreement there will have to be a hard border between the UK and the EU and we will have what the country voted for.

    No doubt the transition over the next decade to the same status as Puerto Rico will also be welcome.

    1. Rich 11

      the same status as Puerto Rico

      You mean every so often Trump flies in and throws toilet rolls to a hungry people, all the while tweeting that they are lazy scroungers and no good at balancing the books?

      1. CrazyOldCatMan Silver badge

        Re: the same status as Puerto Rico

        no good at balancing the books

        Something that Trump is also notoriously bad at given the number of bankruptcies his companies have been through.

        After all, he is one of the very few in history unable to make money running a casino!

    2. Doctor Syntax Silver badge

      "Trump's free trade agreement"

      Trump doesn't believe in free trade. He might go along with a trade agreement but it wouldn't be free. If the Brexiteers are really the free-traders they profess to be they'd baulk at it.

  8. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    Or put it another way

    The UK was a <expletive deleted> partner when they were in the EU and they have every intention of being a <expletive deleted> third country after they leave.

    Negotiation 101. Not.

    1. Rich 11

      Re: Or put it another way

      But... but.. Trump would have negotiated it much better. If only May had taken his advice we'd be in the sunny uplands of Brexit right now, joyfully riding unicorns and eating chlorinated chicken.

      1. CrazyOldCatMan Silver badge

        Re: Or put it another way

        joyfully riding unicorns

        Please tell me that's a euphamism..

        On second thoughts, if it's a Trump euphamism, I probably don't want to know.

  9. Roland6 Silver badge

    Still no meat...

    Ho hum! so after all the fun and games of last Friday's meeting at Chequers and the subsequent fallout, we have a document containing much dressing, but pitifully little meat...

    Can't see much changing soon, Parliament adjourns for its Summer recess on 20-Jul and doesn't sit again until 5-Sep. Naturally, a few weeks later we're into the Party conference season, so I don't expect much to change before November, other than the EU to kindly point out a few choice flaws in the plans...

  10. Teiwaz

    The uK is a serious data fetishist and needs therapy.

    It was all we'd like a soft exit, but if a hard exit is what it takes, so be it.

    Until they were told they'd be out of Galileo and the Interpol *'sharing'.

    * 'data Sharing' to the Uk is much like two year olds attitude to sweets, mine, mine, mine, mine Wahhh!

    Supposedly might not officially have to accede to ECJ rulings, but the current UK administration aren't good at playing the game by any rules than their own. Even if this all goes through, I give it a year before the first suspension from the game for being out of bounds.

    What do people think? Will Scotland decide to leave before N.I collapses?

    1. Doctor Syntax Silver badge

      "the current UK administration aren't good at playing the game by any rules than their own."

      Current UK administration's rules are like standards: there are so many sets of them to choose from.

  11. Guus Leeuw

    Dear Sir,

    maintaining the autonomy of the EU and its citizens would mean that European Citizens can drive their cars and lorries on the right, even the correct, side of the road.

    Could that be worked into one of the non-proposals that are so widely and wildly documented in the latest white paper?

    Best regards,

    Guus

  12. John Smith 19 Gold badge
    Unhappy

    The paradoxical desire to want and not want something at the same time is delusional.

    Which seems to be the Brexitieers position.

    As for those who voted for them I feel like I'm in Star Wars (Ep 9. The Empire hasn't a Clue)

    Tech: I've powered up the droid and recorded what it said

    Me:: Play it.

    "I voted to make Britain stronger.... Keep fisherman in jobs....my family all voted Leave...I won't say"

    Me: WTF is this gibberish? Did the Empire use EMP on its memory?

  13. I Am Spartacus

    Do the Conservative get GDPR?

    Over the lat couple of week I have started getting emails from my local Conservative party and central office, telling me that I really, really need to be part of them to support this fudge.

    I keep unsubscribing from them. They keep sending me mail shots regardless.

    Can I do a GDPR request to get them to disclose what they hold on me? I am not a party member, so there is no logical reason why I would be on their database at all.

    1. Loyal Commenter Silver badge

      Re: Do the Conservative get GDPR?

      Yes, they have a legal duty to provide a subject access request (free of charge), including information about how and when they think they gained your consent to hold your personal information. If they are unable to do so, refer them to the ICO.

      You can also withdraw any consent they think they may have at any time and they must delete all data they hold on you unless they have a proper reason for having it (such as a legal requirement), which it sounds like they do not. They must prove to you that they have deleted your data. If they then continue to contact you by email, refer them directly to the ICO, where they can queue up for their fine.

      Keep documentary evidence of your interactions, and let us know the result, because it sounds like they are already in breach if you have previously told them not to contact you.

  14. codejunky Silver badge

    Hmm

    An interesting detail about this of course being that May discussed this new plan with Merkel before including her colleagues. And of course there was a shortage of copies which even the new Brexit minister hadn't seen.

    It is interesting to see who runs the country. Is it the people? No we voted to leave. Is it the gov? Well they didnt get to read the deal in time to debate it. Is it the EU? Well the proposal hasnt got that far yet. Is it the leading member of the EU? Well I guess at least she approves of the deal to be proposed by the UK supposedly for the UK.

    And if May sells us out to the EU I bet remainers will still be the complainers that somehow it is not their fault.

    1. Loyal Commenter Silver badge

      Re: Hmm

      Is it the leading member of the EU?

      I hate to burst your bubble, but since her own government is in (admittedly lesser than May's) disarray, Merkel isn't considered to be the leading member of the EU. In fact, the last time I checked the leader(s) of the EU were Jean-Claude Juncker and Donald Tusk, and the national president who is considered to be the political figurehead is Emmanuel Macron. Mutti doesn't hold the sway she once did.

      It sounds to me more like May sounding out her own ill-formed ideas with the only EU head-of-state who'd give her the time of day any more, because her own government is so fractured she is clasping around in desperation.

      1. codejunky Silver badge

        Re: Hmm

        @ Loyal Commenter

        "I hate to burst your bubble, but since her own government is in (admittedly lesser than May's) disarray, Merkel isn't considered to be the leading member of the EU."

        As a country Germany still has a poll position. It used to be a twin engine but France caught the socialism fire and that label was quickly dropped.

        "In fact, the last time I checked the leader(s) of the EU were Jean-Claude Juncker and Donald Tusk"

        Two names that really do drive people to leave. How is the scandal going on Junker now? He seems a little quieter of late.

        "and the national president who is considered to be the political figurehead is Emmanuel Macron."

        How is the reformist doing? At first he had all this media news of how he would transform the EU (probably why the national front got second place) even though the French would probably vote out if given a choice.

        "It sounds to me more like May sounding out her own ill-formed ideas with the only EU head-of-state who'd give her the time of day any more, because her own government is so fractured she is clasping around in desperation."

        I cant imagine there is much faith in May from in or out of government. Deferring to an EU member on our membership of the EU does smack of stupidity.

    2. Roland6 Silver badge

      Re: Hmm

      It is interesting to see who runs the country. Is it the people? No we voted to leave. Is it the gov? ... Is it the EU? .... Is it the leading member of the EU?

      Just starting to realise what I've been saying for years? The problem is at Westminster and more precisely in the Executive - the proxy monarch in Parliment.

      Remember it was successive Executives that signed all the EU treaties that got us into the current mess. Hence why I laughed when Brexiteers expected the Executive to take us out of the EU and deliver anything that was beneficial to the average joe voter without reforming the House of Commons.

      1. codejunky Silver badge

        Re: Hmm

        @ Roland6

        "Just starting to realise what I've been saying for years? The problem is at Westminster and more precisely in the Executive - the proxy monarch in Parliment."

        Not at all. Aware of the issue and have advanced from that plenty of times before. My response being how does placing an incompetent level of government which is less accountable over an incompetent government people cry is accountability lacking an improvement. It makes the situation worse not better.

        "Remember it was successive Executives that signed all the EU treaties that got us into the current mess."

        Exactly. And we vote for them. Can you imagine the amazing incompetence that having the EU level brings? Look at the multiple self inflicted crises they have caused their people to suffer. What kind of idiot looks at that wreck and says 'ooh I gotta get me some of that'? At least through voting we have some influence (as the brexit vote proved).

        "Hence why I laughed when Brexiteers expected the Executive to take us out of the EU and deliver anything that was beneficial to the average joe voter without reforming the House of Commons."

        How do we reform the EU if we cant even deal with the UK? Good point, and so we need to leave the EU.

      2. John Smith 19 Gold badge
        Unhappy

        The problem is at Westminster and more precisely in the Executive

        You could also make a good case for some departments p**s poor implementation of EU rules.

        I'd start with that designated "Centre for Evil," the Home Office. Borders are its jurisdiction.

        I'd give strong runners up prizes for the Ministry of Justice (rather a "Euro" name, don't you think?) who are responsible (although you might not believe it) for the Courts, the Probation Service and the Prisons.

        I'm not sure who runs the Detention Centers, where people have been kept in some cases for a decade or more because the relevant Dept can't seem to sort out their f**king paperwork.

        1. codejunky Silver badge

          Re: The problem is at Westminster and more precisely in the Executive

          @ John Smith 19

          "You could also make a good case for some departments p**s poor implementation of EU rules."

          Thats true. I seem to recall some complaint that Blair made it so EU law became UK law and of course they gold plate it (because we tend to follow the law in this country). But then he nearly sold us out to the Euro!

          "I'm not sure who runs the Detention Centers, where people have been kept in some cases for a decade or more because the relevant Dept can't seem to sort out their f**king paperwork."

          A worryingly EU approach as of the latest suggestions with the intent to make such places, they hope outside the EU borders. They got themselves in a right mess unfortunately.

  15. itzman

    No one will agree on anything

    And we will leave without a deal.

    After all the mutual recriminations, intelligent people will quietly reforge sensible arrangements without recourse to the EU or the British government. Where they are mutually beneficial.

    This demonstrating that in terms of European unity and co-operation, the last thing you want or need is the EU.

    1. hammarbtyp

      Re: No one will agree on anything

      After all the mutual recriminations, intelligent people will quietly reforge sensible arrangements without recourse to the EU or the British government. Where they are mutually beneficial.

      Yes I can see it now.

      Custom Officer: What is this white powder in these bags in the trunk of your car

      Me: Its OK Officer, they are Legit. Me and my mate Carlos have forged a sensible arrangement for the import and export of said items across borders. I have the document here...

      errr, why are putting rubber gloves on? Look I've signed an agreement, it uses proper fonts and everything

      1. Teiwaz

        Re: No one will agree on anything

        Yes I can see it now.

        Funnily enough, that close of that little drama-ettte, skit or sketch also often plays out the same if said Customs Official think you may have an extra ounce of baccy or bottle of cheap Calais plonk you weren't entitled to - and that was while within the EU Free movement of goods.

        Ohh, the ruination of society...

        You could probably carry through several cannisters of rabies and be waved through, but god help have more tobacco on you than they think you should have - It has such a short shelf life after all.

        I often think this wole rigmarole is just line the rest of the government on the same mentality as HMCE.

  16. EnviableOne

    In or out the EU is broke

    Germany is the money

    France and Britain were the military

    Spain, italy, portugal and holland got a say

    and the other 21 didnt matter

    France and Germany put it together

    the Germans kept space for Britain

    France complained if they didnt get their way, so they frequently did.

    Getting anything done in EU parliment takes a unanimous decision from all 28 countries which seldom happens

    however the mutual agreements you get when your in the club make this all worth while

    Tariff-free trade

    numberous mutual agreements

    Open-Skies

    co-operation of agencies

    joint purchasing

    limited border checks

    visa free travel

    recognition of driving licences

    recognition of qualifications

    harmonised standards

    cheaper landing fees.

POST COMMENT House rules

Not a member of The Register? Create a new account here.

  • Enter your comment

  • Add an icon

Anonymous cowards cannot choose their icon

Other stories you might like