back to article US tech companies sucked into Russian sanctions row

An expansion of sanctions on companies connected with Russian government cyberattacks has pulled in two US tech companies. Smart devices security specialist Embedi, based in Berkeley, and enterprise resource planning (ERP) cyber security firm ERPScan, based in Palo Alto – both in California – were added to the official …

  1. Duncan Macdonald

    Other way round ?

    Virtually every major US tech firm provides support to the CIA and NSA, so if Russia followed suit it could shutdown all their operations in Russia. Companies affected would include Microsoft, Oracle, Google, Amazon, Boeing etc along with a host of others.

    1. Voland's right hand Silver badge

      Re: Other way round ?

      so if Russia followed suit it could shutdown all their operations in Russia.

      Their countersanctions law language would have resulted in that the way its first draft was written. Quite a few people pointed it out so the voted for version leaves the justification, but instead of making it mandatory, gives the choice of target to the president administration (fairly similar to the arbitrary accusation method operated by the USA).

      That has been voted through unanimously (opposition, communists, nationalists and Putin cronies) in all readings and is now active. The reason we do not see it deployed is the World Cup - they way Vlad operates is to delay the use of any nuclear options after big international events.

    2. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: Other way round ?

      Then Russian enterprises will have to learn to live without Windows, Oracle DB, Google Cloud, Amazon AWS, airplanes along with a host of other vital technologies.

      Because hey, Russia produces nothing.

      1. TheVogon

        Re: Other way round ?

        "Because hey, Russia produces nothing."

        Makes nothing of note maybe. But it produces plenty of gas, coal, aluminium, etc.

        1. Giovani Tapini

          Re: Other way round ?

          Second largest producer of diamonds after South Africa, steel, arms, oil to add to the above.

          Maybe America is not the biggest buyer, but to say they produce nothing is nonsense.

      2. Gordon Pryra

        Re: Other way round ?

        "Because hey, Russia produces nothing."

        Been watching Fox news again?

        Even if you ignore the American maps of the World (which still has dragons everywhere outside North America), a person could still use logic to see that this county must have some power-base.

        After all this country big enough to put Trump in power and bankroll the UK leaving the UK, it is also able to annex thousands of miles of a neighbouring country and perform executions on foreign soil with no worthwhile response from the rest of the world.

        Lets not talk about this country winning its proxy war with the USA over in Syria (see point 1, dragons be here).

      3. Voland's right hand Silver badge

        Re: Other way round ?

        Because hey, Russia produces nothing.

        1. I suggest you explain that to let's say Yandex which till this day has a significantly better translation engine than Google.

        2. If we continue to make companies whose only fault is that they have been found by a Russian immigrant fold and move ship back to Russia they will start producing something. Courtesy of our assistance. The same way Putin himself was produced courtesy of our assistance to the disintegration of USSR in the Eltsin years. It's called Blowback.

        3. Windows, Oracle DB, Google Cloud, Amazon AWS. I will leave the firsts without comment (in fact if you ask a lot of IT professionals this will be a welcome development). Google Cloud and Amazon AWS - that is an interesting one. Alibaba/Tencent are already STEPPING IN - both building datacenters and running fiber along the Silk Road route as we speak.

        Let's come back to Windows, Amazon, Google, etc. Putin has been trying to give their own IT industry an extra jolt for nearly a decade now. Windows is actually banned for procurement across most of their government IT to start with and so is Oracle. It has been procured via backdoors of various descriptions till now. I do not think that giving him the tools to finally enforce what he wants is a positive development for the USA/Western European IT industry. I would not cheer here. It may be counter to our interests in the longer run.

        And in Russia loosing lots of essential IT services.

        Faux news overdose. For every service they lose, there is a Russian or Chinese replacement to step in. That is a market reality. There is no such thing as unique "Califonication Only" IT any more.

      4. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        Re: Other way round ?

        Irony Alert.

    3. TheVogon

      Re: Other way round ?

      "Virtually every major US tech firm provides support to the CIA and NSA, so if Russia followed suit it could shutdown all their operations in Russia. "

      Which is a relatively small market so no one would care. And would result in a few Russians losing their jobs. And in Russia loosing lots of essential IT services.

      1. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        Re: Other way round ?

        “Essential IT services”? Because Ruskies are incapable of developing services? Or buying from Chinese developers?

  2. Grikath

    Welcome

    to the new mcCarthy era.

  3. ZeroDrop

    Oh really?

    The way I see it, russian IT businesses will help FSB the same way american IT businesses will help CIA. Something new to this point?

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: Oh really?

      The way I see it, russian IT businesses will help FSB the same way

      You do not understand Russian mentality. Even the current surge in nationalism has not changed the fact that "Менты и КГБ-ешники" are universally frowned upon by the middle class and intelligentsia which comprise the technical businesses.

      So FSB - no. It has to pay and even then, a smaller business and especially one located outside Russia may not take the PO. GRU - maybe, but probably also not without payment. Doubly so if the businesses run by Russians abroad. In that case it is a definite "No, regardless how much you are paying".

      In any case, there are plenty of guns for hire on the Russian Grey market so their 3 letters do not need to ask legitimate foreign business for help.

      1. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        Re: Oh really?

        So, if what you are saying is correct then Trump is knowingly targeting companies that won't help the FSB and/or other government agencies, as per the requests (orders) he receives from Vlad. The goal there being that you harm the ones that would be loyal to the US until they have no choice to help Vlad or shutdown. We live in interesting times.

        1. Anonymous Coward
          Anonymous Coward

          Re: Oh really?

          So, if what you are saying is correct then Trump is knowingly targeting companies that won't help the FSB and/or other government agencies, as per the requests (orders) he receives from Vlad.

          Correct. Started with the Alisa Shevchenko affair, continued with Kasperski and is proceeding full steam.

          Do they WANT to do this or this is simply a first degree idiocy is sort-a irrelevant. When everything is said and done the result is that a neutral or openly hostile to FSB, GRU and friends business has been converted to an exclusive Russian government contractor.

          They are also doing it to well known businesses in the cybersecurity area which can produce "dangerous" stuff. The physical space equivalent would be the conversion of Oerlicon and RheinMetal (which have a very significant Russian ownership) from major NATO equipment suppliers into Putin army suppliers overnight by means of "sanctions". Sounds like a good idea? Sure, would you like to repeat that staring down the barrel of a RheinMetal 100mm cannon or an Oerlicon .50 cal? I would not.

          The same situation is in other areas, not just cyberspace. As the Russians themselves have observed (I am quoting one of our "allies" talking on one of their discussion/talk shows by the way): 'The west has run of hostile acts. Any further tightening of the bolts is openly in either "counterproductive/collateral damage" or "act of war" category'.

      2. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        Re: Oh really?

        @AC – you forgot to use “мусор” (the filth). It reminds me of a Vovocha joke.

        Vovocha was sitting in the sandbox playing with some dog droppings, making it into a cop (мент). A cop walks up and asks what he is doing.

        “I’m making a cop out of dog shit”

        The cop is offended, lectures Vovocha and kicks him in the arse.

        The next day he is sitting in the sandbox again playing in mud. The same cop again comes up to him to ask what he is doing.

        “I’m making a fireman from mud”

        “Why not a policeman?”

        “I ran out of dog shit”.

  4. Maelstorm Bronze badge
    Meh

    What about US employees of the companies? Do they still report to work? Do they still get a paycheck? How does something like this work if you are employed by one of these companies?

    Imagine this in a job interview:

    "Why did you leave your last job?"

    "The company was placed on the US sanctions list."

    I'm sure that will raise a few eyebrows.

  5. Anonymous Coward
    Facepalm

    When did the United States go totally insane?

    'The US Treasury department has formally accused Digital Security of "providing material and technological support to the FSB"' as distinct from putting backdoors into their equipment for the NCSD, like what they are supposed to. And since the end of the cold war the US UK and Israeli security people mostly engage in economic espionage.

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: When did the United States go totally insane?

      In the sense you mean it, the USA has always been totally insane. Thomas Jefferson, President 1801-1809, is the only US government official I have ever heard of who absolutely refused to accept any gifts or "inducements" while in office. He took this so far that he sent back birthday presents from close friends. The logic, which seems watertight to me, is that only by refusing all gifts can an official remain honest. Relax that rule, and next thing you are going to luxurious dinners, weddings, parties, sporting events, etc.; and then you are taking money from foreign countries to fly (at their expense) on luxury holidays, and being paid vast amounts by banks for boring, content-free lectures.

      Ever since Jefferson left office, if not before, literally everything in the US government (and those of its constituent states) has been up for auction. Arch swindlers like the Astors, the Vanderbilts, the Morgans, the Rockefellers, etc. have always spent a king's ransom buying up legislators, executive officials, prosecutors, judges, juries, and everyone who could "help" them with their "enterprises".

      For the past century (at least) this massive corruption has spread from the USA to cover the whole world. That, for instance, is why the USA can often get support in the UN. The nations whose representatives vote for US motions do not stand to gain - quite the reverse - but the representatives themselves may have enjoyed a little "sweetener" or two.

      1. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        Re: When did the United States go totally insane?

        Thank you, I think that's a fair and and well stated description. On a much less important scale it is the exact same way that MS gets its own standards passed.

      2. Michael Wojcik Silver badge

        Re: When did the United States go totally insane?

        For the past century (at least) this massive corruption has spread from the USA to cover the whole world.

        Oh, that's just adorable. You really think government corruption "spread from the USA"? That a hundred years ago the rest of the world enjoyed some prelapsarian order of government rectitude?

        Frankly, even your Jefferson example is naive. Jefferson's fetishization of one particular ethical performance certainly didn't guarantee any broad ethical standard on his part, in personal or political life, much less in the office of the White House, the Executive Branch as a whole, etc.

        More broadly, blaming the exchange of gifts (however distasteful it may be) on government corruption, much less on the many ways in which power is wielded unfairly even in the absence of corruption, is like blaming automobile accidents on petrol stations. It's part of the system, but it's only one minor contributing aspect. If you like Aristotle's metaphysics, you could say that gift-giving (and bribery in general) is one of a number of material causes of government corruption; it is not a formal, efficient, or final cause of it.

        But then simplistic explanations of complex problems in complex systems are rarely meaningful, however consoling they may be for people who want something to curse.

    2. Fatman

      Re: When did the United States go totally insane?

      The day Trump was elected.!

      1. Giovani Tapini

        Re: When did the United States go totally insane?

        Perhaps, "totally" needs to be qualified a bit...

        I do think that a combination of trade protectionism, paranoia, and fear of the unknown (i.e. most technology, anywhere foreign, anywhere that does not produce a hefty income) has been normalised.

        I am not sure this is insanity but it will have short and long term consequences, or which many are likely to be negative.

        On the plus side, lots of the rest of world group will stop relying on America, find better ways of doing things for themselves, and long term cut them out of their business. This will have the same effect on USA as Brexit has on UK where the damage is chronic and will not simply be measured in next months trade figures.

        1. Baximelter

          Re: When did the United States go totally insane?

          You need to understand that the US and the Trump government are two different things. Trump's opponent Hillary won the election by a substantial majority (about 3 million votes). Trump, however, was more skillful at gaming the Electoral College. Trump is clearly insane; he remains in power by manipulating his uneducated, racist white base. The republican congress support him because they are terrified of that base. Whether we will ever recover from this is uncertain. Every empire falls eventually.

      2. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        Re: When did the United States go totally insane?

        No - that's just when you (very belatedly) noticed.

  6. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    Muppets.

    For the benefit of all you kool-aid drinking Democrats, here is no equivalency between the US and Russia.

    The pertinent differences between the US and Russia are:

    a) The US is a democratic repbulic, whereas Russia is a kleptocratic tyranny;

    b) Russia is, whether you have noticed it yet or not, actively hostile to the West.

    The simply is no equivalency between a company helping Western intelligence agencies and those helping the intelligence agencies of a hostile nation.

    Nice try at FUD but you need to find a new tactic.

    1. strum

      Re: Muppets.

      >For the benefit of all you kool-aid drinking Democrats, here is no equivalency between the US and Russia.

      First of all, most on The Register are neither Reps nor Dems.

      'Equivalency'? No, not equivalent - but the US and Russia are becoming disturbingly similar, in their pseudo-democracy, their bully-boy behaviour towards others and their disdain for privacy and integrity.

      If push came to shove, most would grudgingly accept that the US is a bit more benign - but the gap is narrowing.

      1. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        Re: Muppets.

        "If push came to shove, most would grudgingly accept that the US is a bit more benign..."

        They would be seriously wrong, in that case.

        The USA is, and always has been, a huge force for harm in the world. That is simply because, right from the start, it was run by the super-rich in their own interests.

        A nation in which everything is for sale is a nation that can have no concept of virtue, no morality, no decency and, to a close approximation, no real culture. All those things have been replaced by money and its pursuit.

        Incidentally, this also explains why the US government always behaves like Israel's pet poodle. Israelis and other Jews tend to be extremely rich, and extremely uninterested in ethics when it comes to the fate of goyim. Hence they buy what they want in the Washington bazaar - including US foreign policy. Hardly anyone who matters in the USA has any objection to this, because when Israel and its supporters get what they want, the wheels of commerce and finance are oiled and run smoothly - in other words, treble bonuses all round, yippee.

        Russia - as distinct from the USSR - is actually quite benign considering its vast size and considerable power. Its government, led by Mr Putin, is always insisting on legality and morality, and mostly does what it says it will.

        1. Michael Wojcik Silver badge

          Re: Muppets.

          Israelis and other Jews tend to be extremely rich

          OK, I admit I wasn't anticipating quite this rapid a slide from naive armchair political theorist to raving antisemitic loon. Well played!

    2. Mike Shepherd
      Meh

      Re: Muppets.

      kool-aid drinking Democrats

      This is one up from the usual "Libtards!...Republitards! that constitutes most political discussion in the US.

  7. Anonymous South African Coward Bronze badge

    This is but the start of things to come.

    Who knows what Trumpmenistan will try to block or sanction next, and could it affect YOUR company (who've been quietly minding their own business in No1 Bagshot Row for ages)?

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