back to article Take that, com-raid: US Treasury slaps financial sanctions on Russians for cyber-shenanigans, 2016 election meddling

The US Treasury is freezing the assets of 19 people and five groups from Russia who launched cyber-attacks and interfered with America's elections. The department said Thursday it was imposing the sanctions as retaliation for a number of shenanigans, from causing last year's NotPetya malware outbreak to meddling in the 2016 …

  1. Alan J. Wylie

    Internet Research Agency

    What an unfortunate acronym that makes.

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: Internet Research Agency

      "What an unfortunate acronym that makes"

      The other one of course being largely funded by Americans until they found out what goes around comes around on 11/9.

      1. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        Re: Internet Research Agency

        until they found out what goes around comes around on 11/9.

        You missed the point - they did not.

  2. Voland's right hand Silver badge

    Sigh...

    There is a clear progression here.

    As time goes by, the standard of evidence to apply a "sanction" decreases. On both sides too.

    While they are still not as low as in the days of McCarthy and Comrade Honeker, they are clearly going in that direction.

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: Sigh...

      What in particular do you want more evidence for? The Russian interference in the election is accepted by pretty much everyone in the government, except for Trump and those congressmen and cable news networks with their lips surgically grafted onto his ass.

      The evidence for them being responsible for the attempted nerve gas murder of their former agent is even more clear - the nerve agent they used was invented by Russia and they are the only ones who can make it. If they wanted to hide it they could have used something else, the fact they used something that unquestionably links it to them shows they want to make a statement that they believe they can act with impunity in the west.

      Sure looks like they believe they have compromised Trump, and his waffling on EVER laying blame for ANYTHING at their feet and total inaction (despite his ridiculous lies that he's tougher on them than Obama) sure makes it look like he has been compromised by them. If he hasn't, the quickest way to prove it would be some tough sanctions - if he wants to continue to ignore the election meddling he can say it is for the nerve gas attack on English soil.

      1. Chris G

        Re: Sigh...

        Read this:

        https://off-guardian.org/2018/03/15/the-farcical-reality-behind-theresa-mays-novichok-story/

        1. Anonymous Coward
          Anonymous Coward

          Re: Sigh...

          "Read this:"

          Its hardly suprising that the Russians have massively increased their propaganda spend this week. That a policeman who merely went near the couple was hospitalised proves that the stuff exists and is as described. Hence now we know that it exists the spend of £40 million at Porton Down to do something about it...

          1. GrumpyOldBloke

            Re: Sigh...

            the spend of £40 million at Porton Down to do something about it...

            Grubyments don't work that way. The spend at Porton Down would have already been decided as would have been the eventual end game from all this Russian bashing - probably an excuse to re-enter Syria. We in the free West are now following the bouncing ball of increasingly shrill outrage from politicians and the press to 'do something' and hence arrive at the predetermined conclusion. The Iraq war, WMD's and babies thrown out of incubators was not that long ago. Lest we forget.

      2. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        Re: Sigh...

        No down vote however as to the point about them being the only ones that can manufacture this nerve agent is incorrect. It's a known compound and once known, any chemical engineer can manufacture it in large quantity. A mere chemist can do so in small batches. Of course, you really need the CE knowledge so you don't off yourself in the process.* Same precautions, and equipment, as making any (current) pesticide.

        *- Back in the early '70's a professor and graduate student were making a small batch of nitroglycerin in the lab on the 5th floor of the university's science lab where I was attending courses with my Mom. Blew out the entire 5th floor. Luckily for the professor and grad student, the survived intact. The reaction is seriously exothermic which is how many a maker end up dead.

        1. Voland's right hand Silver badge

          Re: Sigh...

          Of course, you really need the CE knowledge so you don't off yourself in the process.

          I am going to throw in my 0.02Eu of a Chemistry MSc which spent half of his degree thesis therm fighting with phospororganic synthesis (my degree is from the days when we actually had the course in toxic substances and toxicology. The first year after they stopped the lab exercises so I did not get to synthesize some of them though. Bummer).

          For VX, Sarin, Soman and Tabun - yes. The trick is to remain alive after manufacturing it. The reason for this is that they volatile liquids and will escape via even the smallest gap in the apparatus used for synthesis. Compared to that the synthesis itself is relatively simple.

          If I understand correctly the Novichock "discovery", the biggest advantage(s) of this class are that they are solids. So you do not need specialized one-off glassware made just for the purpose. They can be synthesized in a reasonably advanced lab without everyone kicking the bucket as a result. Additionally, some of the references available mention that some of them are binary compounds and can be made on the spot from 2 relatively safe reagents.

          That is where this whole thing stops making sense and starts to contradict itself:

          1. Binary compound which results in a solid in the correct concentration in the correct solvent to be used as an aerosol. That makes no sense. Sorry - you might as well win the grand lottery.

          2. The formulae make no sense to me. VX and toxic phospororganics are AHE inhibitors. They must closely resemble the structure of https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Acetylcholine to work. The Phosphorus goes into the enzyme where the Carboxy is on the original compound and permanently inhibits it. The blob on the side serves to orient it correctly and provide additional properties needed. The modifications on the blob in the several (probably false) formulae published for novichok are for an insecticide not for a super-duper meatsack killer compounds. In order for something to traverse the chitin cover efficiently you do exactly that - add a couple of strategically placed Fs here and there. That DECREASES the overall solubility in water though resulting in being less effective on mammals. So the claim that it is 5+ times more toxic as VX sounds like ratshit (not even bulshit).

          3. The behavior of the cleanup crew still does not match what they are claiming is being used. While the physical property, delivery, etc are different from VX group, the decontamination is still identical. Take a f**** sprayer with diluted NaOH or whitewash and get on with it. In fact even soda bicarbonate may do depending on how reactive this legendary poison is in reality.

          4. There is a very good indicator for the intensity of the research in a particular area - papers. Russian papers on phospororganics were petering out already when I was doing my MSc. The rumor is that they have switched to fentanyl and other (semi)-synthetic opioids - the stuff used in the Moscow theater siege. In fact, looking at the initial picture my guess was something from the Kolokol series - a Fentanyl derivative. MUCH MORE RUSSIAN (as per their current research) and much scarier too.

          5. I have read the whole story of its "leak to the west". As someone who has worked in R&D in Eastern Europe during the same period I recognize all the hallmarks of a dieing non-subsidized research in a second tier lab with nearly dried up funding coming from the ministry of agriculture. On matter that has been chewed up to the death with scientists claiming they have discovered the holy grail as a desperate bid for more money which is not coming. Sorry, seen that too many times so a BelAz of salt (not a pinch) is needed.

          All in all there is so much bullshit flying in the air at present that the hazmat suit is needed not to guard from the mythical supercompound used, but from all the flying fecal matter (in all directions).

          1. Voland's right hand Silver badge

            Re: Sigh...

            Just to add to my comment on the decontamination crew behaviour not making any sense. There is a hilarious contest run in Russian media this morning (I got it forwarded by my mom to have a laugh at it).

            Pictures from the Guardian, Beeb, Torygraph, Sky - both stills and capture frames are rated for "best fake news of the day" - most unbelievable and idiotic behaviour in a chemical weapons environment.

            The current lead is a pic which is published in every one of them. It contains:

            1. Two Porton Down droids in full isolation gear.

            2. A couple of police forensics in the normal white onesies they use and respirators (so far so good)

            3. Thee firemen with NO F*CKING ISOLATION GEAR WHATSOF*CKING EVER (yes I meant to use the F word twice) looking dumb at the rest going about their business. I can't be arsed to dig it out, but I remember seeing the pic by the way, just did not pay attention to the details on it at the time.

            And you want me to believe anything in the hysterical howling of the media? F*ck that.

            By the way - the contest is pretty indicative of what their media (both pro-government and opposition) think about the whole affair. So any ideas that we have successfully influenced their coming elections this way are misplaced. Just the opposite - we are solidifying Putin's lead by all means possible with what we are doing at the moment and it is OUR circus, not the underlying incident which is doing it.

      3. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        Re: Sigh...

        @DougS:

        "What in particular do you want more evidence for?" - So far there is no evidence. All there is, so far, is an accusation supported by the false premise that the agent used could only have been supplied by the Russians.

        But then you also support this premise: "the nerve agent they used was invented by Russia and they are the only ones who can make it". Is there any point in asking why you believe this, and why you think no one else has the expertise to do so?

        "If they wanted to hide it they could have used something else, the fact they used something that unquestionably links it to them shows they want to make a statement that they believe they can act with impunity in the west"

        I agree, that if they wanted to hide it (and if they actually wanted to kill someone) they could have used something else. However, the idea that they would have deliberately used something that would not only fail to guarantee death but also be identified and linked back to Russia, just to demonstrate that they could do so, is beyond ludicrous and in the realm of delusion.

        Please don't get me wrong; this is not a personal attack upon you - I don't even know you. And neither do I support either 'side' in this, but I find blatant lies, especially from people who claim to represent me, both offensive in the extreme and a sign of a deep corrupting sickness in our society, and when other people, out of a misguided sense of tribalism, parrot those lies they have become part of the problem.

        1. Voland's right hand Silver badge

          Re: Sigh...

          However, the idea that they would have deliberately used something that would not only fail to guarantee death but also be identified and linked back to Russia, just to demonstrate that they could do so, is beyond ludicrous and in the realm of delusion.

          Probably the biggest problem in the whole thing. I have lived in Russia, I know Russians, I know how they think, I am fluent in their language to native proficiency too. I know how they work and with all due respect if they decide to get something over with, they ALWAYS DO IT WITH A RIDICULOUS EXCESS. This is in everything - any problem starting with an obstinate rusty bolt and finishing with an obstinate human. It is the "Раз пошла такая пьянка, режь последний огурец" principle. In everything.

          The fact that the target IS ALIVE is as non-Russian as non-Russian gets. If they were snuffing him using nerve gas he would be 6 feet under and half of Salisbury with him as well. Then, that would have fit the picture.

          What we see at present - does not. It does serve the interest only of whoever wants the sanctions regime extended, whoever that be. Nobody else.

      4. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        Re: Sigh...

        What in particular do you want more evidence for? The Russian interference in the election is accepted by pretty much everyone in the government, except for Trump and those congressmen and cable news networks with their lips surgically grafted onto his ass.

        Seems entirely plausible. But bear in mind, the US and other Western countries routinely interfere in other countries' elections. Or even topple elected leaders. Outrage at Russia for (probably) doing the same is rank hypocrisy.

        On the other hand, the US taking a hard line over election meddling does make sense: making it clear there's unequivocally more to lose than to gain is a genuine deterrent. Trouble with that approach is, the US never seems to know when to stop, when a demonised country tries reform and to mend fences with the West.

        The evidence for them being responsible for the attempted nerve gas murder of their former agent is even more clear - the nerve agent they used was invented by Russia and they are the only ones who can make it.

        Utter tosh. The nerve agent was analysed by Porton Down and other such facilities around the world back in Soviet times. That's more than long enough to outlast the lifetime of a patent on the process, let alone set up production. Of course they could have produced it locally!

      5. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        Re: Sigh...

        DougS, you seem to have the wrong end of the stick, everyone believes that the Russians were (like a host of others) meddling in the US elections - but with a view to undermining legitimacy and belief in the USA's rule of law.

        They targeted no-establishment candidates for support - so they had ads and social media messages supporting Jill Stein, Bernie Sanders, and Donald Trump early on in the primary season. They also promoted deliberately divisive themes, like Black Lives Matter. Further, we know that they spend around $100K on advertizing with Facebook and others which is an absolute drop in the bucket - and even that pittance was spent more AFTER the election than before. One significant pair of events that they promoted simultaneously after the election were a pro and anti Trump rallies.

        So I don't think anyone doubts that they meddled - but along the same lines as the Guardian meddled in the 2004 election, and less directly than the paid foreigners (Australians) working illegally for Bernie Sanders' campaign. However nobody but those with their heads so far up Obama's arse believe that the Trump campaign colluded in any meaningful way with the Russians. The only people who colluded with the Russians were the Clinton campaign and the DNC by paying Russians to provide disinformation which was then seized upon by the Obama administration to surveil the Trump campaign.

        There's crimes aplenty committed by members of the intelligence services and the then administration, and we can only hope that at some point those crimes will be prosecuted.

  3. DCFusor

    With so many axes

    grinding and people trying to control the narrative, it might be best to have a little skepticism. Maybe even trust that most "attacks" fail, and most citizens aren't affected much by even many-million if not billion $ campaigns - either by pro politicians, or say, one of Soro's orgs.

    I heard the other day that the attacked ex agents were on Steele's payroll....fake news? Dunno.

    But it leads to a very different set of motives if true..for him and for that piece of Shiff.

    And the US gov isn't shy about "controlling the narrative" either. I'll just leave this here. Note date of publication....

    https://phys.org/news/2011-10-darpa-master-propaganda-narrative-networks.html

    Think they've got this working by now?

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: With so many axes

      I heard the other day that the attacked ex agents were on Steele's payroll....fake news?

      I have seen both reported.

      1. In UK that he was not, but knew closely "consultants" on Steele payroll. All newspapers repeating what looks suspiciously like a canned statement and none of them investigating it.

      2. Outside UK (Eastern Europe) that he was and he was the source of the infamous "Orange Baboon pissing on Russian Блядь" episode in Steele's Dossier. That in turn can provide more than one motive...

  4. Mark 85

    Financial sanctions? I'm guessing one of two reactions from those sanctioned. 1) They're quaking in their boots and scared of what's next. or.. 2) They're high-fiving and laughing their butts off.

  5. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    And of course the Americans aren't using this to try and influence the coming Russian elections -much.

    Kettle pot black.

    1. TheVogon

      "And of course the Americans aren't using this to try and influence the coming Russian elections -much."

      This sort of stuff makes Putin more popular in Russia. Remember that killing people is a routine part of doing business over there.

      1. Voland's right hand Silver badge

        This sort of stuff makes

        No it does not. Us going into full sanctions mode without providing a shred of evidence - 100% does. It supports the "victimization complex" he has been building there for the last 20 years.

    2. Lars Silver badge
      Happy

      @ Ivan 4

      I don't think you need to worry about American propaganda beating Russian propaganda in Russia.

      Trump is just a thin skinned ego who doesn't like to think that he needed outside help to win, or that that women won the popular vote, or that there wasn't more people at his inauguration than ever before (read Obama). He is obsessed with the "strongmen" of the world and cannot understand that he has not as much power as he expected running his new company, all alone, as he has the brains like nobody ever before.

      He would like to be called "Father Sunshine" like Stalin and then there is this guy in China who has given him this rather ingenious idea of a lifetime presidency, but perhaps still a bit too coy to suggest it..

      If you want to move towards democracy you have to do it yourself from inside.

      1. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        Well, Trump lives in YOUR head - rent free ! At his best he is troll class A+, that was a joke, a trollish joke, and it triggered little trigglypuffs like you.

  6. Doctor Syntax Silver badge

    Wot? Not even expelling a few diplomats?

  7. The Nazz

    You have to laugh. Well not really.

    The US taking a hissy fit at a few Russians for small scale meddling in their election, and denying that stalwart of decency, cough, Clinton her rightful victory.

    Just as well it wasn't the Russians who bomb the shit out of places like Iraq, Libya and Vietnam to force regime change.

  8. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    Election Meddling ...

    When is the UK going to slap sanctions on the US because of one of their citizens, Rupert Murdoch, meddling in UK General Elections ?

    1. Voland's right hand Silver badge

      Re: Election Meddling ...

      That should probably be sanctions on Australia, not USA.

      You do have the right idea though.

  9. Aodhhan

    The odd thing is

    We're finding out it wasn't Trump working with the Russians, but rather it was the Democratic party.

    While Russia meddled with the elections, it didn't really impact it.

    Also, it appears they didn't necessarily do it on their own accord; we're starting to see the Democratic party provided a conduit to do so.

    With this coming to light, I don't expect to see the USA do much about this when it comes to offensive cyber ops.

  10. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    A couple of observations

    From the article:

    "...responsible for a disinformation campaign on Facebook and Twitter in the lead-up to the 2016 presidential election..." and "...attempt to spread discord and confusion and sway public opinion in the US."

    Yes, both of the participating parties in the election were doing this.

    "Federal Security Service (FSB), a Russian intelligence organization, knowingly engages in significant activities that undermine cybersecurity on behalf of the Russian government," the department stated.

    Yes, this is what intelligence agencies, including the CIA, MI6 and every other foreign intelligence service in every other nation in the world does - they were created and exist for this purpose.

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