lol, rickrolling sound like a good thing
Fender's 'smart' guitar amp has no Bluetooth pairing controls
Guitar amp manufacturer Fender's recently-introduced Mustang GT 100 guitar amplifier can be made to play whatever audio an attacker fancies, security researchers have discovered. The amp allows Bluetooth connections, but without pairing security. Anyone within range could therefore "stream arbitrary audio to it and hijack your …
COMMENTS
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Tuesday 27th February 2018 08:19 GMT Mystic Megabyte
"We don’t consider these to be vulnerabilities particularly, more abuse of features for unintended consequences," Pen Test Partners' Ken Munro told El Reg.
It might be a vulnerability if someone turns it up to 11 and blasts pink noise through it. Damage to speakers, amp or eardrums is a possibility.
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Tuesday 27th February 2018 08:35 GMT Hans Neeson-Bumpsadese
It might be a vulnerability if someone turns it up to 11 and blasts pink noise through it. Damage to speakers, amp or eardrums is a possibility.
Damage to ears possibly, damage to amp or speakers no. It's a combo amp, and the speaker is rated to be able to handle the output from the power amp stage. No matter how high you turn up the volume you can't damage the amplifier itself.
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Tuesday 27th February 2018 10:08 GMT JimmyPage
RE: the speaker is rated to be able to handle the output from the power amp
Er .... I wouldn't want to test that standing behind it, as a pilot once said.
That sentence is missing a "Should", and I can well believe that some combo amps have been built down to a price and someone said "100W speaker ?, No one will notice if we use a 50W."
Especially as some guitarists might think the resultant distortion is "pretty groovy".
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Wednesday 28th February 2018 08:02 GMT Anonymous Coward
Re: RE: the speaker is rated to be able to handle the output from the power amp
"100W speaker ?, No one will notice if we use a 50W."
Long ago, in a far off planet, a band called deep purple had some blown loudspeakers.
They put them all in a couple of 4x12s and the Roadies Red-Star trained them back to Jim Marshalls
My acquaintance, a young engineer there. was. after a peculiar phone call, asked to come and pick them up from the station.
Not only had they been re stencilled with 'Fu**ing Marshall Sh*t' but on arrival removing the rear covers revealed that the roadies had used them as portable toilets.
IN the magazine 'studio sound', a hot guitarist was asked why he rans is loudspeaker cabinets without grilles or grille cloth. Was it perhaps to get some special sound ?
Nah mate" he retorted "Its so I can kick the **** out of them when the cones go, and stop them buzzing".
I can assure you that even cloth eared rock musicians can tell when a loudspeaker has blown.
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Tuesday 27th February 2018 11:55 GMT Anonymous Coward
@Hans Neeson-Bumpsadese: "It's a combo amp, and the speaker is rated to be able to handle the output from the power amp stage. No matter how high you turn up the volume you can't damage the amplifier itself."
Not true. The amplifier and speaker will have been specced up to handle fluctuating signals. Push it hard enough and for long enough and both the amplifier and speaker can be damaged.
Fender are claiming this as the first "wifi" amp, but Line 6 actually beat them to that with their Amplifi range.
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Wednesday 28th February 2018 08:06 GMT Anonymous Coward
The amplifier and speaker will have been specced up to handle fluctuating signals.
I have designed guitar amplifiers,. You have not., They are specced to handle full power full distortion continuously
Typically 50W amps will have 60-80W loudspeakers.
My Marshall 50W (2x EL34) has a Celestion G75 installed
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Tuesday 27th February 2018 13:12 GMT Anonymous Coward
"No matter how high you turn up the volume you can't damage the amplifier itself."
Sadly not true. Many modern guitar amps are designed in such a way that they blow up if the user fails to regard the spec with enough scepticism and tries to use full power for any length of time. It's a consequence of design by marketers and beancounters.
Ironically, valve amplifiers of 40 or 50 years ago were much more robust in this regard. (I've been an amp repair tech for 45+ years and have seen a lot of blown up amplifiers).
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Tuesday 27th February 2018 20:44 GMT simonb_london
"Many modern guitar amps are designed in such a way that they blow up if the user fails to regard the spec with enough scepticism and tries to use full power for any length of time."
If the amp is run at full power then the output devices become more like switches than resistors and actually become less hot than they would running, say, at 2/3 power. Feel sorry for the speaker though....
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Tuesday 27th February 2018 14:56 GMT Andytug
Nope, clipping can destroy speakers and amps even at less power...
In a lot of ways it's safer to have an amp rated higher than your speakers rather than the other way round . The lower powered amp will start to "clip" the tops off the waveform as it runs out of headroom, which is not good for the speakers at all. Or your ears!
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Tuesday 27th February 2018 09:18 GMT MyffyW
I don't consider a 1/4" guitar cable that much of an impediment, whereas a Bluetooth-doo-dah simply feels like my day job intruding into my leisure time. To be honest, the interplay of guitar straps and foundation-wear was just one more reason why playing the guitar seemed so liberating.
Maybe it's time to accept I'm an analogue girl in a digital dystopia.
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Tuesday 27th February 2018 09:53 GMT Laura Kerr
Sounds like me. I suffer from GAS as much as the next bassist, but most of my toys - amps, effects pedals and whatnot - are decidedly analogue, are tied together with electric string and have controls you either twist or stamp on to make a noise.
In a weak moment, I bought a Boss digital mini-studio, and I find it a royal pain in the arse. Admittedly, the looping, speed control and recording functions are very good, but I really dislike breaking the rhythm to fiddle about with menus.
Anyway, that's Fender off my shopping list. I prefer Eden kit, anyway.
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Wednesday 28th February 2018 14:05 GMT BongoJoe
Mine's the one with the band patches on for bands nobody else seems to have heard of..
Band patches? How very late seventies and eighties is that?
We used to hand embroider the names and logos onto our denim jackets. Do you know how long it took me to hand embroider the cover from Rainbow Rising onto mine? And then some whippersnapper comes along with a jacket that his mum has sewn a Saxon patch onto.
Pah!
(old fogie icon ------> )
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Tuesday 27th February 2018 13:28 GMT Killfalcon
Re: "abuse of features for unintended consequences,"
It's the Pen testers quoted as saying it's not a vulnerability. They seem to want to distinguish between "leaks private data/permits bank fraud" from "can make the screen go fuzzy/change the font".
It's probably a good idea to avoid sensationalism that makes people disregard pen-test reports, and if this is the distinction to draw, I can't say it's a bad one.
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Tuesday 27th February 2018 13:14 GMT Simon Harris
Re: "abuse of features for unintended consequences,"
Sounds like the same 'feature' that lets my neighbours take over (accidentally, I'm sure!) our LG soundbar with their Bulgarian music without needing a pairing code. Worse, as soon as the soundbar sees a Bluetooth connection, it switches input mode automatically away from a wired input, as if Bluetooth is the most important thing in the world!
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Tuesday 27th February 2018 09:41 GMT King Jack
Re: I will not hear a word said against Fender
You forget about the flimsy USB connector. Why they didn't use the heavy duty B connector used on professional gear is unknown. I guess that they wanted to make shit that will break easily, steering you to buy a real amp. (by another manufacturer).
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Tuesday 27th February 2018 21:31 GMT John 104
Re: I will not hear a word said against Fender
@James Huges
Have you picked up any new Fender guitars? Even their super expensive kit just feels cheap. Frets are poorly filed, action is crap, sound is crap. Its all just a huge marketing machine for wanna be rock stars to buy in to. As soon as they came out with fake road worn guitars, that was the end for me. The Japanese stuff is well made and worth the cash if you can get a decent one.
As for gimmic Amps. No thanks. Why would you want to play anything other than guitar through your guitar amp? The speaker isn't designed to play voices or deep bass, or whatever else isn't guitar. Or, at least, it shouldn't be.
I'll stick to my mid 80s Warmoth Boogie Body and my Orange Micro Dark in its custom cabinet with my nice sounding Eminence RamRod. Sounds fantastic, no pedals needed.
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Tuesday 27th February 2018 12:24 GMT Stoneshop
Re: I will not hear a word said against Fender
Why they didn't use the heavy duty B connector used on professional gear is unknown.
And even those are pretty crappy.
For real roadie-resistant connectors Neutrik has USB, RJ45 and several other not-known-for-their-durability computer connectors, housed in their signature XLR shells. With matching chassis parts, of course.
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Tuesday 27th February 2018 09:13 GMT Joe Werner
> I thought that was due to how you play it and fret the strings. (I've tried but I have two left hands.)
Yeah, in part. The amp, effects, and guitar (I'd say the pick-ups) and their respective settings also play a big role. Though no matter what equipment I had I wouldn't sound like (Richie / Jimmy / Angus / Yngwie / add or delete whoever)... (and I prefer playing other instruments, and I suck much less at those)
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Tuesday 27th February 2018 10:06 GMT Dave 126
Re: As a practicing[0] guitarist ...
Some of these 'useless kludges' have been widely adopted for real benefits, as you will have seen should you have attended a gig in the last few years.
iPad sound mixing desks are now common, and allow for on-the-fly sound mixing *from amongst the audience* - that is, the sound technician is hearing what the audience is hearing. I've seen bands in pubs use this to achieve subtly that one would normally expect of a studio recording. In addition to better sound for the audience, the mixing box can be left in the stage - so no awkward run of cabling is required to a traditional mixing desk in an acoustically compromised location.
Should any musician wish, they can use an iPhone to control the volume of their own monitor speakers.
It's in the tradition of technology and music, from Bo Diddley using a solid bodied electric guitar to Hendrix having a British boffin make him up effects pedals (and upsetting Jeff Beck in the process).
I don't see many bands using this Bluetooth Fender pedal, but the wireless MIDI (over WiFi) baked into all iDevices has been used in countless gigs for over a decade - it's straightforward, for example, to control a flange effect by using any sensor (orientation, acceleration, light) on the phone.
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Tuesday 27th February 2018 10:19 GMT Dave 126
Re: As a practicing[0] guitarist ...
Here's Onyx Ashanti on TED. About ten years ago I saw him in the UK with an earlier version of his kit a deconstructed MIDI clarinet with with the virtual keys placed into 3D-printed glove controllers (The glove components are on Thingiverse, his code is on GitHub) - so that his arms are liberated. On each arm was strapped an off the shelf MIDI compatible multi-axis accelerometer - an iPhone.
I asked him about it, but he preferred that we talk about electric vehicle drivetrains instead.
https://www.ted.com/talks/onyx_ashanti_this_is_beatjazz/discussion
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Tuesday 27th February 2018 10:33 GMT Dave 126
Re: As a practicing[0] guitarist ...
Until the three armed guitarist, foot pedals remain the go-to solution to changing the sound. However, some guitarists over the years have wanted more subtle control over the effects.
Of course most amateur guitarists would do well to leave effects alone - as Keith Richards notes of the Rolling Stones "We try every song acoustic. If it doesn't sound good acoustic, it won't ever sound great if we play it electric"
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Tuesday 27th February 2018 11:05 GMT jaywin
Re: As a practicing[0] guitarist ...
Of course most amateur guitarists would do well to leave effects alone - as Keith Richards notes of the Rolling Stones "We try every song acoustic. If it doesn't sound good acoustic, it won't ever sound great if we play it electric"
Alas, most amateur guitarists seem to believe 'if it doesn't sound good acoustic, I need to add more distortion pedals'.
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Tuesday 27th February 2018 13:04 GMT Valerion
Re: As a practicing[0] guitarist ...
Alas, most amateur guitarists seem to believe 'if it doesn't sound good acoustic, I need to add more distortion pedals'.
When I was younger, and reached the level of "still shit" as a guitarist, I very quickly realised that anything I played on acoustic sounded terrible, but by plugging in, and whacking up the overdrive things would sound a lot better!
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Tuesday 27th February 2018 14:34 GMT CrazyOldCatMan
Re: As a practicing[0] guitarist ...
Alas, most amateur guitarists seem to believe 'if it doesn't sound good acoustic, I need to add more distortion pedals'.
Guilty as charged yer honour..
In my defence I wish it to be read into the court record that a lot of the music I listen to uses an awful lot of effects..
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Tuesday 27th February 2018 10:54 GMT ibmalone
Re: As a practicing[0] guitarist ...
While I'm definitely in the practising rather than gigging club, you don't really use it for live mixing. A foot pedal or two is obviously very useful for controlling a couple of effects (my old Mustang has no bluetooth, but does take a foot-pedal which works as a preset switch). A tablet or phone controller is less for changing while playing than making changes between pieces or experimenting with stuff during practice or rehearsals.
I've got an older mustang and the only controls on the cabinet I use generally are the volume ones, or sometimes the preset selector knob to pick one or two that are actually useful, for adjusting any of the effects unit settings having it plugged into a computer is pretty much essential, so being able to do that from a tablet would be handy. Reminds me, I've been meaning to get hold of an iRig now I've finally got a phone that will support it...
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Tuesday 27th February 2018 11:57 GMT JDX
Re: I still don't want to dick around with a telephone/iFad when I'm playing guitar.
Classical musicians are able to turn pages in their music while playing. Guitarists often tweak their guitar, amp and FX settings using both their feet and their hands.
I think you're deliberately misunderstanding the point of these features to make some point. Being able to play a backing track through your amp is a common practice feature and it's only natural BT would be supported as well as line-in these days. But maybe using your iFad to play music is also "dicking around" and you'd rather wind up the gramophone.
Using BT to tweak the amp settings is also something you would do in between songs or similar. The point being you can download dozens or hundreds of profiles on your phone and 'beam' one to the amp. TC Electronics have been doing this on their critically acclaimed TonePrint pedals as just one example.
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Tuesday 27th February 2018 16:24 GMT 2Nick3
Re: As a practicing[0] guitarist ...
"Perhaps you have three hands?"
Changing setups between songs is much easier with one button to hit on your phone than resetting a bunch of dials. Or trying to remember which settings on which pedal, in combination, you need for the next song. There's an use case for this.
Not making the band, or the audience, wait for the guitarist to tweak his amp/effects settings leaves more time for him to retune!
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Tuesday 27th February 2018 10:35 GMT Anonymous Coward
Re: As a practicing[0] guitarist ...
"Some of these 'useless kludges' have been widely adopted for real benefits,"
... for the mixer, not part of the band and definitely not the one playing on the stage. Even implying they are the same is a bad case of reality lost.
Anyone suggesting that the guitarist on stage stops to play, picks phone from the floor, browses through five menus to adjust something, puts the phone down, picks the guitar up and continues to play, is really far out.
No matter how gadget-fanatic he is.
Mixing guy is a full time guy, he has time to browse endless menus as he wish, totally different job.
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Tuesday 27th February 2018 13:58 GMT Dave 126
Re: As a practicing[0] guitarist ...
> ... for the mixer, not part of the band and definitely not the one playing on the stage. Even implying they are the same is a bad case of reality lost.
It was the band themselves - not me - that referred to their mixer as their 'silent band member' - he's working in real-time to ensure close-mic vocals are as clear as when the singer is further back. As I said, subtly in a live pub (albeit one known for having a very good PA) gig that traditionally one would associate with a studio recording.
>Anyone suggesting that the guitarist on stage stops to play, picks phone from the floor, browses through five menus to adjust something, puts the phone down, picks the guitar up and continues to play, is really far out.
No one's suggesting that. But if you have a multi-sensor control surface with out-of-the-box MIDI support lying around, it might be used to trigger a different set of effects between tracks, or adjust the monitor volume. As much hassle as switching guitar or putting a capo on - things bands often do between songs. It's a general purpose device, is all.
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Tuesday 27th February 2018 19:48 GMT onefang
Re: As a practicing[0] guitarist ...
"Mixing guy is a full time guy, he has time to browse endless menus as he wish, totally different job."
I've done several jobs in music, including mixing.
Last mixing job I did was for a bunch of bands I'd never heard before, most of which didn't turn up for the sound check, in a tiny venue that wasn't built for live music. The last one was a loud heavy metal band that liked to scream really loudly into the mics, and there was a feedback problem. Especially when the lead singer started roaming through the audience, getting random audience members to sing for him, and trying to get me to sing. Both hands where busy riding the controls to keep the feedback to a minimum, and the volume up to 11. Luckily they didn't need the part of the desk that had scrolling menus. Mixing guy sometimes needs more then the standard issue number of fingers and hands.
I've also done R&D for analogue and digital music equipment. Sometimes the musicians need the fancy equipment with all those odd features. Sometimes they need them to interface with their ancient instruments that they love. At several points during that night, when the lead singer roamed the audience, I was wishing his mic was wireless. I would not have been fussy about what wireless technology was used if it was.
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Tuesday 27th February 2018 13:56 GMT HieronymusBloggs
Re: As a practicing[0] guitarist ...
"iPad sound mixing desks are now common, and allow for on-the-fly sound mixing *from amongst the audience* - that is, the sound technician is hearing what the audience is hearing. "
That's why front-of-house mixing desks are usually placed in (or behind) the audience. I sometimes see iPads and the like used for setting up the initial calibration of sound systems, but have never seen such a thing used for a main mix in a gig of any real size. Maybe we attend different gigs.
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Wednesday 28th February 2018 00:44 GMT Phil Endecott
Re: As a practicing[0] guitarist ...
> iPad sound mixing desks are now common, and allow for on-the-fly
> sound mixing *from amongst the audience*
Or, as I have seen, *from the bar*, with the band trying hard to get the attention of the soundman because the vocalist's mic is totally off. He is too distracted by the barmaid (or a website) to realise.
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Tuesday 27th February 2018 10:45 GMT ibmalone
Re: As a practicing[0] guitarist ...
Upvote for practicing :)
Actually, the control is fairly useful for modelling amps like this. Turn off network mode on your phone (or use a tablet) and you can then use it to switch presets and effects, you can get mic-stand phone holders for the purpose.
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Tuesday 27th February 2018 09:49 GMT AS1
Jazz 2.0
With original Jazz, the audience could only follow passively, but now with Jazz 2.0 control has passed to YOU, the audience. Now you can upload settings and hear how the band responds. You can even upload your own tracks and see, in real time, how an audience responds to your personal awesomeness. Jazz 2.0 - where YOU are more important than the band.
Mine's the one with a very non IoT penny whistle inside.
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Tuesday 27th February 2018 13:10 GMT Anonymous Coward
Re: Jazz 2.0
Good live bands have always responded to the audience.
By collecting their phones and sealing them in a bag before the gig starts, so they don't spend the whole show waving them around in front of their faces and wrecking the experience for the people behind them who turned up to see the band.
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Tuesday 27th February 2018 14:40 GMT CrazyOldCatMan
Re: Jazz 2.0
wrecking the experience for the people behind them who turned up to see the band
Can we also get gags issued? I've paid to listen to the band on the stage, not you yakking on to your mates about how much beer you drank at the weekend and how drunk you got.
For some reason, this can get particularly bad at prog gigs. If there was ever an audience that you would have thought had come to hear them music it would be them but, no, yakkers abound.
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Tuesday 27th February 2018 13:56 GMT AS1
Re: Jazz 2.0
@Dave 126
Yes, but this experience will be better.
(Just to be clear, I've no issue with a box having easily programmed presets that can be swapped deftly between tracks; I can see this would be useful. My issue is the apparently naive decision to leave the wireless access unsecured.)
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Wednesday 4th April 2018 21:28 GMT Someone Else
@Clive Harris -- Re: If it's not full of valves...
Presented for your approval (or not; I really don't care): The (original) acoustic 360/370 bass amp [Emphasis definitely added!]. Not a tube or valve to be found anywhere near it, but it is the only amp, living or dead, that has approached my ultimate of standing roughly 10 feet in front of it, hitting the low 'E' string, and having it knock one's feet out from underneath one.