back to article Three in hospital after NSA cops open fire on campus ram-raid SUV

Three people are in hospital after a car rammed a barrier at the NSA headquarters in Fort Meade, Maryland, today at around 0655 ET (0355 PT, 1155 UTC). A trio of blokes tried to drive onto the US intelligence agency's campus in a rented SUV, and were intercepted by spy cops, according to the FBI. The vehicle's driver was hurt …

  1. Anonymous Coward
    WTF?

    other seriously hurt in the attempt

    For some very strange reason, I read that as "other seriously hurt in the armpit".

    I think my brain meds are playing up.

  2. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    What were they thinking?

    Presumably that it was cheaper than three tickets to Dignitas. But even so?

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: What were they thinking?

      Presumably that it was cheaper than three tickets to Dignitas. But even so?

      Only if you are black: https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2018/feb/12/stephen-mader-west-virginia-police-officer-settles-lawsuit

    2. EJ

      Re: What were they thinking?

      Unintended acceleration: it happens all the time here... (to people who should no longer be driving).

  3. frank ly

    Why oh ....

    "We have no reason to believe that there's any nexus at all to terrorism ..."

    ... why, can't they just say 'connection'?

    1. theblackhand
      Coat

      Re: Why oh ....

      Connection suggests one link.

      Nexus suggests this is just one connection in a larger conspiracy.

      Mines the one with the roll of aluminium foil in the pocket....

    2. CrazyOldCatMan Silver badge

      Re: Why oh ....

      ... why, can't they just say 'connection'?

      Cos it makes them look edditcated an stuff. OK?

    3. Anonymous Coward
      Coat

      Re: Why oh ....

      Because Google's Nexus is not related to Terrorism, by HTC and Huawei are.

      Buy USA! USA! USA!

  4. James O'Shea

    They wanted to die

    I've driven by Ft Meade. There are nice big signs advising that 'use of deadly force' has been authorized, and lots of guys with automatic weapons clearly in sight. Anyone who tries to get in really should know that he's asking for a dose of 9mm or 5.56mm or possibly .50 caliber. And, yes, there were at least a few armored vehicles hanging around. There was a non-trivial chance of stopping some 25mm SAPHE. I don't know if the AFVs are still around. I do know that I'd be staying on the other side of the fence, thanks.

    1. kain preacher

      Re: They wanted to die

      There are times when the have a pair of armored vehicles with 50cal and 20mm out there. yeah quick way to die./ Oh did I forget to mention that this is a military base ?

    2. Antron Argaiv Silver badge
      Happy

      Re: They wanted to die

      I've driven by Ft Meade.

      You should take a left just before the main gate, and visit the museum next time!

      https://www.nsa.gov/about/cryptologic-heritage/museum/

      Don't miss the gift shop. My NSA logo coffee mug is my pride and joy, even if I can't microwave it, due to the gold ring around the rim. Your goods are wrapped in a plain blue bag, and the receipt is from "Employee Welfare Fund". Which is fitting, since there's No Such Agency...

      1. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        Re: They wanted to die

        I hev done both (worked there and visited the museum). The museum is a joy - labels that are informative and don't talk down (too much). My first mug was nicked! And on a short working session as the old NPIA (UK National Policing Improvement Agency :-). Bought another on a recent trip to Maryland (only the museum detour that time). Guess I will be more careful about the company I keep in future.

    3. JCitizen
      Stop

      Re: They wanted to die

      So James O'Shea? --- What you are saying is Ft. Meade don't play around like the Marines guarding the barracks in Lebanon back in 1983? The guards didn't even have live ammo there!

  5. chivo243 Silver badge

    really?

    "Despite bullet holes clearly visible in the SUV's windscreen, the Feds said none of today's injuries were due to gunfire as far as the bureau knew."

    I can't decide if the officers on duty need training(target practice) or the exercised restraint(excellent marksmanship)?

    Idiots are damn lucky to be alive in either case...

    1. Josh 14

      Re: really?

      I was about to say the same thing, if the injuries weren't gunshot related, the shooters need some remedial range time!

      I remember how some of my fellow basic trainees spent significant amounts of time on the range, learning how to be less awful with a rifle.

      I would expect that guards at a relatively high profile installation would be more competent than raw trainees, who could at a minimum reliably hit a man sized target 32/40 rounds, and that was at ranges from 50 to 300 meters.

      1. Michael Thibault

        Re: really?

        "32/40 rounds, and that was at ranges from 50 to 300 meters"

        That's got to be for a rifle; hitting anything at 50 meters - let alone 300 - with a handgun with a tenth that success rate is a back-slapping accomplishment, shirley? And is it really a crisis situation if you have the leisure of reloading 5 times?

        1. imanidiot Silver badge

          Re: really?

          At 50 meters a decent shooter should still be hitting at least 50% on a man sized target imho. Further out than that though it drops of fast.

          1. EarthDog

            Re: really?

            moving target or not? Adrenelin or no?

          2. Michael Thibault

            Re: really?

            This 50%/50m rule of thumb is still shy of acceptable, though -- at least for handguns, where there's less stealth involved and less prep/setup time involved or available, and less pavement as the backdrop to catch the misses. The bullets do keep going when they miss a particular man-sized target...

            However, if they can come up with a smart-ass bullet that, when it misses its target, turns around, comes back, and taps its target on the shoulder, we'd be laughing.

            1. imanidiot Silver badge

              Re: really?

              @Michael Thibault

              Hitting a moving target at 50m with a pistol, under pressure is already a challenge. Missed shots will probably be close enough that they'll still be passing through a vehicle. Any shoot through would still hurt like a bugger (I certainly wouldn't want to get hit) but most rounds will have lost a large part of their energy so are less dangerous at that point.

              Also, the approach to installations like this is usually set up so that the field of fire behind the approaching vehicle is safe, so guards can shoot when they have to without having to worry about shooting the mother and child just happening to pass by.

      2. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        Re: really?

        Looks like a some simply failed to get through the glass.

      3. EarthDog

        Re: really?

        In Afghanistan and Iraq it was discovered 5.56mm had poor performance stopping a truck bomb due to poor penetration. NATO 7.65mm became the preferred round of choice. If you look at the picture the SUV has close to a 45% slope on the windshield. That would be my guess.

    2. phuzz Silver badge

      Re: really?

      Maybe they're supposed to try and stop the vehicle, rather than kill the occupants?

      Possibly they're worried about a bomb on a dead-man's trigger?

      Somehow I doubt they'll share their operational plans with the outside world.

  6. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    They had no choice.

    They had to drive in that direction... ...their GPS told them to.

    1. Neil Barnes Silver badge
      Black Helicopters

      Re: They had no choice.

      Yes, but obviously the NSA had hacked their GPS system to lead them there, right?

      1. Flashfox

        Re: They had no choice.

        Must have been using an OLD iPhone with Apple's original navigation. They were looking for NaSA and wound up there in place :-)

  7. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    "We have no reason to believe that there's any nexus at all to terrorism at this point." In other words, the car's occupants were probably white.

    I disagree. Labeling a white as a terrorist doesn't get oneself labeled as a racist, the way it does when the perps are non-white. Usually the cops tie themselves in knots to avoid doing that.

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      I guess you haven't noticed that:

      white mass shooter = "he was mentally ill"

      black mass shooter = "he was a criminal / gang member"

      middle eastern mass shooter = "he was a terrorist" - if they can't find any links to ISIS etc. they'll claim he was "inspired by ISIS". Can't be mentally ill, because he wasn't white.

      1. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        One more

        Hispanic mass shooter = "he was an illegal*"

        * pronounced "n ullegal"

    2. EarthDog

      White people can't be terrorists in the US.

      1. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        The latest mass shooter in the US, a 19 year old white man who shot up a school in Florida, is being portrayed as someone with mental illness. His white supremacist ties are being downplayed as if they aren't relevant to his fascination with guns and violence.

        If you took the exact same circumstance and replaced that white guy with a 19 year old who was born in the US but had Pakistani or Iranian parents, they wouldn't be talking about any mental illness. They'd be talking about how he'd spent a lot of time on the internet (because what 19 year doesn't) and be wanting Apple to break into his iPhone so they could probe for the ISIS connections or inspirations they'd already have assumed he had.

  8. Mark 85

    Based on past experience, the suspects got off lightly. In 2015, two men dressed as women tried to ram their way into the agency's snooping nerve center in a stolen car. One was shot dead, and the other seriously hurt in the attempt.

    I take it that the level of marksmanship at the NSA gate has fallen somewhat. If you can't hit a target, you shouldn't have a gun. Fullstop. Goes for civilians, guards, cops, etc.

    1. Adam 52 Silver badge

      There's always one "I can hit a nickel at twenty yards" comes out after these incidents. Fine; can you do it when the target is obscured and moving, you don't have a good firing position, there are buckets of adrenaline in your blood, you're in fear for your life and you've just run to the scene?

      1. Neil Barnes Silver badge

        >> when there are buckets of adrenaline in your blood, you're in fear for your life and you've just run to the scene?

        Don't see why not - it seems to work all right for Jack Ryan.

    2. Chairman of the Bored

      Ever try to hit a driver in a vehicle on the move?

      Not easy. That's why I like fairly high caliber, full automatic weapons.

      Mines the one with all the 7.62x51 NATO rattling around in the pocket.

      1. Adam 52 Silver badge

        Re: Ever try to hit a driver in a vehicle on the move?

        I should probably have added "whilst being confident of not hitting any innocent bystanders" ;-)

        1. Chairman of the Bored

          Re: Ever try to hit a driver in a vehicle on the move?

          An excellent, excellent choice.

          Former office mate had a problem with an inbound vehicle. He was manning a .50 but did not engage because doing so would have sent rounds into a souk. VBIED strike. He's missing both legs now ... Constantly getting surgeries for complications. Sole survivor from his vehicle - not a burden I think I can handle. But he didn't take out the civilians. Maybe 1-2sec to make that decision. File this under, "sometimes life sucks."

          1. Anonymous Coward
            Anonymous Coward

            Re: Ever try to hit a driver in a vehicle on the move?

            "...But he didn't take out the civilians. Maybe 1-2sec to make that decision. File this under, "sometimes life sucks.""

            The world is a better place thanks to guys like him. Too many on either side of the gun discussion think the real world works like Hollywood movies. Reality is unfortunately more like his situation.

            I'm guessing that he'd be dead now, but that two heavyweight brass spheres confined the blast to his lower extremities.

            I'm not particularly religious, but I believe we will all have to account for our actions and choices in the afterlife. I believe your office mate will end up in a better place than those who drove the incoming vehicle.

            1. Chairman of the Bored

              Re: Ever try to hit a driver in a vehicle on the move?

              Thanks... Totally agree that he's got a massive, shiny pair. I think he knows that he made the right choice but there will always be that "I shoulda, would, could..." going on inside.

              What the movies never show is how sick you get when something goes down... No matter what the outcome... And what it's like for the rest of your life.

              Bottom line I guess is that you've got to do the very best with what you know at any given moment.

        2. Dodgy Geezer Silver badge

          Re: Ever try to hit a driver in a vehicle on the move?

          Why? Are you by some chance not American?

  9. Jan 0 Silver badge

    Camous?

    When I saw the word "campus" in the headline, I just thought: what, Kent State again?

  10. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    Shoot to kill

    There is no reason not to shoot to kill when under attack. These morons will be back on the streets in a few years so they can attack someone or something else.

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: Shoot to kill

      And you are basing your "not shooting to kill" on what exactly?

  11. EJ

    "We have no reason to believe that there's any nexus at all to terrorism at this point." In other words, the car's occupants were probably white. Lone wolves, are we right?"

    This is why I love you guys...

POST COMMENT House rules

Not a member of The Register? Create a new account here.

  • Enter your comment

  • Add an icon

Anonymous cowards cannot choose their icon

Other stories you might like