back to article Firms pushing devices at teachers that let kids draw... on a screen? You BETT

Hold on to your hats, Reg readers - Microsoft has some ground-breaking news to offer you: kids of the future are going to need collaboration, problem-solving, critical thinking, and creativity skills for work. Ever the committed educationalist, Redmond has commissioned McKinsey & Co to carry out some research that shows how …

  1. Anonymous Coward
    Big Brother

    Want to prepare kids for their future ?

    Tell them to pull their pants down and bend over for their corporate data-slurping overlords !

    1. Arthur the cat Silver badge

      Re: Want to prepare kids for their future ?

      Tell them to pull their pants down and bend over

      Try that in the UK and an angry mob of tabloid readers will lynch you before you can say "only a metaphor".

  2. GrapeBunch
    Coat

    Their new product: Etch-0A-Win. Or is that Eeeeeech-a-Win ?

    Mine's the one with the turtle in the pocket.

  3. ArrZarr Silver badge

    I was about to put some snarky comment about how 2030 was this unimaginably distant future where we would inevitably have magical pixie dust powered gizmos so any attempt to guess where we would be at this stage is futile.

    Then I realised that 2030 is only twelve years away and I felt old.

    1. Dan 55 Silver badge

      And there still won't be flying cars.

      1. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        or self driving ones.

  4. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    Perfect, my sarcasm detector was at exactly the right level for the whole of the article.

    Microsoft must be getting worried about teachers using pi's and I see they have come up with some revolutionary ideas there. Maybe they could add some kind of arithmetic software? Which you can't do normally unless you have a calculator of course.

    1. Dan 55 Silver badge

      Raspberry Pis are the best thing to show kids that it doesn't have be Wintel and Office.

      Mercifully free from MS software, it gives them a chance to see that non-MS software can do the same thing and you don't have to rent a word processor.

      1. Lee D Silver badge

        They know that already.

        They all have iPads or smartphones. By comparison a Raspberry Pi is a toy. P.S. you think they care that they can use a machine, if it can't play GTA V and Overwatch?

        I work in IT in schools, always have. RPi are a waste of time. MicroBits are even worse. Pretty much everything they want to do, they know they can do on an iPad, Android phone, or portable PC. They already don't care about OS or architecture.

        What they do know, though, is that you need a decent PC if you want to do anything serious, especially 3D or video editing, and everything else is so damn powerful that a RPi 3 is just a joke. They might like plugging it in, that's about it. It's not a wonder-toy to a kid that has even the most basic Samsung Galaxy (which will be smaller, faster, have integrated 3D, run on Android, and probably is in their pocket). And yet, you still need monitors to plug into, power supplies, kits of parts, keyboards, etc. And a space to do it in. Gosh, if only every school had, like, a suite in which they had all that kit and workspace already? You have to shove the PC out of the way to play with the RPi or add in so many other parts you could buy them all an iPad / Chromebook each anyway.

        Guess what app they all try to install on their iPads? Word. We don't even give them Office 365 but they all expect to open things in Word by default even on non-MS platforms. They are completely platform-agnostic, but they "know" they need Word.

        So, sorry, but the RPi's aren't all that interesting. And staff don't know how to utilise them. And apart from a little computing lesson where you learn to plug it all in, everything they do is better off done on a real computer.

        If you go to BETT, they were pushing MicroBits one year. Literally no products - just pushing what they could do but you couldn't buy them. And a few years before it was RPi. No lesson plans, no teacher assistance, just boxes of gadgets. Both are now almost invisible, like the 3D printers before them, visualisers before that, etc.

        This stuff isn't for education, which has entirely different priorities to you and I (and I work in private education with kids who go to Eton... they literally lose all interest in RPi etc. within minutes but will happily build their own drone aircraft). Coding? Yeah, they "did that". Whether it was Scratch or Python it consisted precisely zip of their lessons over even their primary education and then that was done. Why? Teachers who can't code and who have huge curricula which includes a lot more than coding. Or playing about with little gadgets.

        To be honest, you could run a school without visible Windows. I have seen one or two attempt it, reverted one (reluctantly being a massive Linux fan, open-source programmer, etc. myself but they really messed it up), and I tell you that you could run the kid-side easily on anything you liked. Google GSuite for Education, a handful of third-party website subscriptions, any decent browser and that's 99% of what you need for the kids to get through all they ever need to - including testing and assessment. Guess how many go that route? Very, very, very few. Why? Teachers ask for Windows and Office. Why? 10 years ago, those teachers were the same kids with the teacher who was baffled by Windows 7 and who would have stayed on XP forever. Trace it back enough and you still see things like "Word is the word-processor, Excel is the spreadsheet" as if nothing else exists.

        Sorry, but education is a market based on teaching things that you're told to teach, when you were never taught them yourself, so they stick exactly to what they know and can pick up quickly themselves. Just try explaining app vs website to most teachers and you could be there for hours. Especially when you then demonstrate that "the iPad app we must have" won't run on Android / Chromebook / Windows.

        Education doesn't care about your RPi's precisely because - as I warned at the time - RPi doesn't care about the teachers. Look around and only OTHER TEACHERS provide resources to use for them linked with the UK national curriculum in any way. And that curriculum changed smack-bang as RPi came out. Teacher won't touch that without paying £1000 for the "pack" of RPi's with massive book of lesson plans and a 3 hour course for their entire staff with a support line the other end. That, pretty much, doesn't exist.

        Until then, every school you see will be paying for Microsoft licensing annually (but we pay for one copy of Windows/Office per full time teaching employee only anyway), still buying iPads AND Chromebooks AND PCs AND other stuff, and then still complaining Word can't run on a RPi. And your kid will come out thinking half-a-dozen copy-pasted lines of Python is "programming".

        P.S. I was also an early tester for RPi 1.0... including diagnosing the Ethernet/SD card USB bus saturation issues with Broadcom directly. My RPi is gathering dust in the attic, as are the school ones at every school I've worked at since they came out.

        1. getHandle

          And your kid will come out thinking half-a-dozen copy-pasted lines of Python is "programming"

          Isn't that why Stack Overflow exists?? ;-)

        2. Dan 55 Silver badge

          Well if anything the Raspberry Pi isn't particularly short of online teaching resources, five seconds with Google will tell you that.

          The Pi foundation has projects and there are third party projects, but should teachers expect absolutely everything on a plate? Should test tube suppliers come up with a chemistry course, sports kit suppliers come up with a PE programme, or dictionary publishers come up with an English course?

          No, so why should IT be any different or self-explanatory?

          If teachers who teach IT are only regurgitating stuff they learned from 10 years ago with different hardware or if kids think six copy-pasted lines are programming then there's obviously something wrong, but it's not with the Pi. Next you'll be blaming Bunsen burners for bad science results.

          And the fact that your Pi is gathering dust in the attic is not really the Pi's fault either, it's only doing what you've decided to do with it.

        3. Tim Seventh

          @Lee D

          Your point basically summarized to school never change (to pi) unless otherwise, but only to back it up with with GTA V, Overwatch 3D or video editing, and "buy them all an iPad"… What kinds of well funded rich school are you working with?

          No 12 year old kid in school I have seen done anything remotely close to real 3D or video editing. I can only assume that your ‘school’ aren’t the same school raspberry pi was designed for. Your ‘school’ is more like ‘university’ (and maybe some high school or well funded private school).

          In this case, you’ve compared apple to orange. Raspberry pi isn't a replacement for real heavy computation. It is cheap hardware for school like kindergarten to middle school (maybe some high school) as an alternative for cost saving when they didn't need the high cost hardware or license in the first place. In those types of school by installing a browser in raspberry pi, they already have all the tools necessary for basic teaching. Online calculator, compiler, physic simulator, literature, video, etc, there's already everything the teachers need for their lecture at a very low cost.

        4. Flywheel

          "Pretty much everything they want to do, they know they can do on an iPad"

          If someone sends me a ZIP file to my iPad 2, how can I open it?

  5. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    All part of their 'grand' plan

    Get them young and they'll stay in the MS walled garden. Welcome to £10/month subscriptions for the resy of your natural with all your data sent directly to the GCHQ (via the NSA). /s

    Proudly Windows free for 18months.

    1. vir

      Re: All part of their 'grand' plan

      Isn't this what Apple has been doing for decades with student discounts on their laptops (that just make them very expensive instead of obscenely expensive)? Microsoft looks like they're trying to cut them off before they make it to college; soon, we'll have in-womb "curated experiences" so that someone's social media presence can begin before their first breath. Has anyone deigned to ask the actual teachers what they'd like to spend $6,000 on for a 30-student classroom? Maybe the ones who end up spending their own paltry salary on pens and pencils for their students?

      1. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        Re: All part of their 'grand' plan

        And what also Google is doing with Chromebooks and its offerings aimed at school. Like all dictators, they know they have to bend the minds when they're young, before any critical thinking arise.

        Any Corp. or whatever is named in your country should be kept away from schools. They don't need citizens, they need customers (or data sources or serfs...)

    2. Doctor Syntax Silver badge

      Re: All part of their 'grand' plan

      Sadly, this is a first class précis of Lee's post.

  6. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    Ahead of the game

    VTech has been getting children ready for the future even before they are of school age.

    (See first comment by El Reg user on this thread for more details)

  7. Flakk

    Collaboration, problem-solving, critical thinking, and creativity skills? How does Cortana address any of these things? At least Clippy lent itself to critical thinking, as you had to work out for yourself how to exorcise it from your computer.

  8. Yet Another Anonymous coward Silver badge

    Collaboration, problem-solving, critical thinking, and creativity skills? How does Cortana address any of these things?

    You can use it to watch a ted talk about how important they are

  9. SVV

    I BETT they won't save you money

    "The new devices, launched to coincide with edtech conference BETT, will be “tough enough to survive any school day”, says Microsoft.

    Thinking about some of my school days........ No, they won't. And in terms of battery life, processor power and licensing fees... Not much going for them there financially either. And they certainly won't be tough enough to survive the Microsoft update cycle and associated hardware requirements long enough for a child to complete their education. Mind you, the saving on pens on paper could tip the balance here - just think how much cheaper the colour laser printer and consumables will be when they need hard copies for the classroom wall, fridge at home, etc!

    BTW, the word "Firms" in the headline should be changed to the word "Microsoft".

    1. Graybyrd

      Re: I BETT they won't save you money

      And here I was thinking that little Petunia would carry the 'magic slate' home so her proud mother could duct tape it to the refrigerator door so all could see her latest finger-painting art.

  10. Mike 16

    Art and Tech

    Reminds me of the old joke:

    It took Michelangelo nearly four years to paint the ceiling of the Sistine Chapel. He could have done it over a long weekend if he'd used a power-fed roller.

  11. Anonymous Coward
    Paris Hilton

    I thought we were aiming for progress, not setbacks

    If I understand this correctly they're basically trying to 'breed' kids who are fully dependent on electronic devices to get their point(s) across. So the moment the power fails or the device doesn't work they won't be able to express themselves without a keyboard or other electronic device?

    Do you honestly consider that "progress"?

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: I thought we were aiming for progress, not setbacks

      Their bank accounts will see a big progress towards adding a new zero in the rightmost place - that's what they mean when they talk about "progress".

  12. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    Last paragraph

    Describes Windows 10 S quite nicely I think.

  13. David Roberts
    Headmaster

    Nostalgia for the BBC micro?

    Some fans of the Pi may be remembering the generation inspired by the BBC micro.

    However at that time computing was new and different and exciting.

    These days the most likely connection with kids would be an Android development platform which let them put their own App on their own phone and then take it home to show their parents.

    Not that I would like to police a load of bright kids side loading code onto their phones. I know that most teaching staff wouldn't have a clue how to.

    Perhaps a hosting App which can sandbox code but allow kids to develop simple stuff?

    Whatever, I suspect that most fans of teaching kids about computers don't have to do it, nor do they have to train teachers to the level required to teach it then support them afterwards.

    TL;DR look, a computer - isn't it cool! Is so last century. Focus on the computer they are already using.

    P.S. I have a few Pis. Presents from my kids. Apart from a shonky VPN server they are all sitting there waiting for me to have some spare time. Said kids have never shown any interest in programming and use computers of various kinds as tools to get a job done, not one to develop skills that they frankly see no need for. Lack of programming skills doesn't seem to have held either of them back, although one has a successful IT career. Not as a programmer, though. IT training started at Uni because the school IT guy was such a dick head it was agreed any IT course would be a waste of time.

  14. Andy The Hat Silver badge

    Cost ... pah!

    1000 kids at £189 a throw is only ... grabs tablet to work out maths ... £189,000. That doesn't include extra software, infrastructure or basic maintenance or repair.

    Based on that every school should have them ... admittedly you'll have to reduce spending on some specialties such as seats, tables and roof coverings but, on the bright side, you can do basic 3d modelling!

    Will someone wake up and smell the graph paper - the average annual IT budget in a school is 10% of that cost ... often less. Capital outlay may be £20-£30k if a school is lucky enough to secure the project funding so that's a single class set with a trolley catered for ...

  15. onefang

    3D modelling?

    Just teach them Blender. Once they have mastered that, anything else is easy.

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