back to article Sueball smacks AMD over processor chip security flaw silence

AMD stands accused of "artificially inflating" its stock price by not making public a CPU design flaw the tech world now knows as Spectre, according to a class-action lawsuit brought on behalf of investors. Yesterday's filing by shareholder Doyun Kim in the northern district of California court stated: "As a result of …

  1. Doctor Syntax Silver badge

    So let me work out the argument here:

    They should have disclosed the find immediately.

    At that stage there would have been no mitigation available.

    There's then have been a race to develop mitigation and exploits.

    If exploits had won that would have helped the share price how, exactly?

    1. Ken Hagan Gold badge

      You stopped this line of reasoning too soon. The defendants are essentially arguing that the damage to the wider public (caused by early disclosure) is less important than letting them sell shares early. This has two flaws. The first is that had the disclosure been made, the share price would have fallen, almost certainly before *they* personally had time to sell. The second is that by recklessly causing a zero-day disclosure, *they* would presumably be the target of other people's litigation.

      It is really hard to see how the world would be a better place for these people if they win.

      1. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        Away with you both and your perfectly sound reasonable logic.

        These people and the lawyers can smell money and that is all they care about.

        1. Doctor Syntax Silver badge

          "These people and the lawyers can smell money and that is all they care about."

          Having them declared vexatious litigants would give them something else to care about and would be entirely appropriate.

          I'd hope that if this case comes to court there'll be a line of expert witnesses all explaining in great detail that withholding public announcements until mitigation is ready is best practice. Given that as a finding of fact in this case (and the similar one against Intel) would make such cases more difficult to bring in future and would also be a great deterrent to future premature disclosure.

      2. Someone Else Silver badge
        Pirate

        Business people are stupid.

        @Ken Hagan,

        It is really hard to see how the world would be a better place for these people if they win.

        You are completely correct. But that doesn't matter. The Suits are bitching because they unreasonably expect to make profit under all conditions when they make a stock purchase, and not\w they are throwing their toys out of the pram when the real world impinges on their fantasy.

      3. robidy

        Surely the only people who would clearly benefit from disclosure would be purchasers AFTER this date...who didn't speculate on the price falling.

    2. ibmalone

      They wouldn't have had to disclose the exact details, just its existence and level of severity. That would not have helped the share price, but IIUC the investors' position here is that the financial reports are where a company is supposed to reveal that kind of information.

      1. ibmalone

        All the thumbs down today! And yet none who could take the time to explain where I'm incorrect. There is clearly a difference between declaring the exact details of an exploit and making a statement you are aware of one. If the investors' claim is correct then AMD made knowingly inaccurate or misleading statements on their financial reports, which is a bad thing to be doing (in some cases, but seemingly not this one, criminally bad). Haven't seen a single comment here that even appreciates a difference could exist, just "greedy lawyers don't care about security!"

        1. Anonymous Coward
          Anonymous Coward

          In principle it sounds like a great idea...in practise in this instance...it would be found faster than a fix could be implemented.

  2. Adrian 4

    Can't they read ?

    "The value of your investments can fall as well as rise"

    1. Someone Else Silver badge
      Holmes

      Re: Can't they read ?

      They read the same way Donald Drumpf reads. And for much the same reasons.

  3. Will Godfrey Silver badge
    Unhappy

    Confirmation

    These people are simply making it clear that they are more than happy to start international wildfires if it makes them a bit more money.

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: Confirmation

      Doesn't that describe 99% of infestors on the USA stock market?

    2. Doctor Syntax Silver badge

      Re: Confirmation

      they are more than happy to start international wildfires if it makes them a bit more money. without having the ability to think through far enough to realise it would lose them money through the company having to pay damages resulting from exploits. That's the danger of never thinking more than a quarter ahead.

  4. TheUnknown

    Good Luck Lawyers

    Not sure which is more pathetic; individuals or the lawyers trying to milk a company / clients on something they know nothing about.

    Good luck lawyers because this will likely get thrown out, since they had very good reason to keep this under wraps until a fix was in place.

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: Good Luck Lawyers

      another example of why lawyers should also have personal, joint liability for costs if they lose a case that they have told client they can win ......

  5. adam payne

    As evidence of hiding the knowledge of the chip vulnerabilities, the complaint highlighted AMD's end-of-2016 statement, as well as its Q1, Q2 and Q3 filings. These all contain the same paragraph warning about the general risk of hackers and potential consequences of attacks, the place where investors would expect to read about fundamental issues with the company's chips, but did not. Signed and declared accurate by Su and Kumar, these reports would indicate that all was well in terms of security at AMD.

    Some how I don't think it a great idea to release details of a zero day with no patches to mitigate the issues. If they had announced it AMD share price would have fallen anyway so they would still have lost money on their shares.

    1. Dave K

      Also, if this wins it will set in motion a dangerous precedent. What about software flaws? These are also typically not made public for several months to allow for patches to be developed. If a particularly nasty one crops up and MS's share price dips a little, will shareholders start trying to sue (if they believe they can win) - even though by the time it's made public patches are available?

      Let's be honest, AMD's share price should recover. After all the Spectre flaws affect pretty much all current CPUs, and the patches for these are application level and should not really affect performance. It's a far different story with Intel where the Meltdown fixes can cause substantial performance losses for some workloads (particularly in data centres).

  6. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    Things that should be self evident:

    1. CEO’s lie their asses off on a daily basis

    2. Companies has lawsuit insurance for when CEO’s lie their asses off

    3. Investors figure lawsuits are free money because most cases settle

    I don’t think the lawsuit has merit, but when has that ever stopped lawsuits?

    Our law makers (politicians) are all ex lawyers. If you want to reduce the number of lawsuits, stop electing lawyers to public offices. Just because they’re BS artists doesn’t make them qualified to solve problems.

  7. Sykowasp

    AMD's share price went up since the disclosures, because Intel's performance was affected to a far greater degree, especially in the profitable server market.

    AMD's Spectre v2 firmware is an optional thing for paranoid users who want to be definitely non-affected. It's a peace of mind thing.

    Responsible disclosure of security flaws is more important than alerting shareholders at the first possible opportunity.

    This needs to be thrown out now.

    As does any aspects of cases against Intel that are whining about the non-disclosure. However the performance complaints and devaluation of share price complaints here are valid.

  8. Mark M.

    There are probably 2 kinds of people flinging sueballs at AMD at the moment.

    1) Greedy munts who only want to see their shares going in an upwards direction and give them quick short-term profits and will fling sueballs if share prices went downwards by as much as $0.001. These greedy munts deserve to lose every cent for investing money that they don't want to lose.

    2) Idiot IT bosses who paid millions into putting all their computing hardware into AMD and away from Intel and started believing the sensationalist media over-hype that a fix for AMD devices will slow their new computers down by 50%.

  9. conscience
    WTF?

    Is this a twisted PR stunt?

    I'm no financial wizard, but this seems ridiculous to me.

    The investor spent $257,040 buying their 21,000 shares at $12.24 each. Today the AMD share price is up (again), and the value of those 21,000 shares currently stands at $12.18 each, or 6 cents less per share with a total value of $255,780. This is only $1,260 less than the initial purchase price, and considering AMD's share price is on an upward trajectory right now I see no reason at all to take any legal action? If this legal action has any effect at all it would only lower the share price and make the investor's own financial situation worse!? If the aim of the investment is to make money, rather than make AMD look bad, then this is a totally pointless endeavour at best and at worst financially damaging to the investor personally.

    The cynic in me wonders if someone connected with Intel bought these shares just so the media would report that AMD are now also getting sued over this? Intel do seem rather keen to erroneously paint AMD as being in exactly the same boat as themselves with regard to the Meltdown and Spectre bugs and potentially considerable performance issues involved in fixing them. An anti-AMD PR attempt by Intel is the only thing that appears to make any sense.

    1. Mark 110

      Re: Is this a twisted PR stunt?

      Well said :-)

    2. ntevanza

      Re: Is this a twisted PR stunt?

      No, this is a lawyerly tactic. These suits are driven by the corporate equivalent of ambulance chasers. They crawl the data for stocks that have fallen, advertise their services, and put boilerplate class action suits together by the dozen. The objective is to be just credible enough to force the ostensible victim to settle to make them go away. The class action clients get mostly nothing out of it, and you could argue they are the real mark in this game.

      Pond scum is a glowing compliment for this grotty crevice of the legal profession. They aspire to the exquisite horror of the lamprey, but most are mere parasitic flukes and annelids.

      The SEC does a perfectly good job of holding listed companies to account for full disclosure and is far more feared than these craven guinea worms.

      1. ntevanza

        Re: Is this a twisted PR stunt?

        Full disclosure: Smug AMD fanboy.

    3. Brian Miller

      Re: Is this a twisted PR stunt?

      This is a case where someone is making an investment risk in lawyers and the stock market.

  10. soulg

    Ok, so he bought 21000 shares and the stock declined less than 1 percent. So he lost less than $210! He is suing AMD for 210 dollars? How much is Intel giving these lawyers under the table for this bad press to go forward again?

  11. Peter Boyle

    Moral Hazard

    The legal sector is going after tech companies vindictively now, speculatively filing lawsuits

    whenever something goes wrong, whether or not there is malpractice, holding them to

    paying out for every event that might in any way affect stock pricing.

    The answer is clear.

    The legal sector should be held to similar standards. Frivolous and stock influencing lawsuits

    should give rise to damages responsibility of the legal company.

  12. Doctor Syntax Silver badge

    I suppose there is a case for suing them for failing to spill the beans on Intel's Meltdown. Nevertheless. given that both were discovered as part of the same investigation I can't see how AND could have been expected to pull off a stunt like that without outing themselves for Spectre.

  13. a_yank_lurker

    Dates

    Dimbulb bought shares on 8-Jan-2018. This is well after Meltdown and Spectre were publicly announced. Most of the press focused on Meltdown and thus Intel but I remember it being noted that AMD was likely affected by Spectre (later confirmed) during this period. This smells like someone who either is looking to fleece AMD by shystering or is an idiot who should be parted from his money.

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: Dates

      He hoped to make quick money riding the wave as soon the Meltdown wind soared, but the wave he chose had its Spectre rocks too....

      I'd say past AMD statements in the past are irrelevant here, he bought on news about Intel, he hoped it was an Intel issue only, but the bet didn't pay.

      Maybe he will sue El Reg soon because the first reports were about Intel only....

  14. Anonymous South African Coward Bronze badge

    *rolls eyes*

  15. Johan Steyn

    Again people are so stupid. This is purely to manipulate stock prices and sentiment toward AMD, probably driven by Intel themselves to avert attention from them.

    There are zero proper arguments for this. It is like saying that near zero means zero. If AMD has a near zero chance of being exploited, it means it cannot be exploited. That is stupidity. It was even talked about on forums that AMD has a flaw on var 2 because of the near zero comment. So if these people on the forums were bright enough, surely the investors should be as well, but then I am expecting way too much. Maybe these lawsuits are a confession that these very people are neuron challenged.

    In the end the most plausible explanation for this is that Intel is behind it to distract the focus from their blunders.

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