back to article Apple, quit milking tech-addicted fruit of our loins – shareholders

A group of Apple shareholders are asking the Cupertino idiot-tax collector to do more about getting kids to put down their iThings. An open letter to Cook and Co from two Apple stockholders – JANA Partners and The California State Teachers' Retirement System – suggested the Silicon Valley giant plow some of its surplus …

  1. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    perhaps concerned parents could, oh, we dunno, try a little parenting?

    given you have no kids your sarky advice is worthless.

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: perhaps concerned parents could, oh, we dunno, try a little parenting?

      Given that I am at the Grandfather stage , your comment is clueless.

      Feeding and pacifying a child is not the same as parenting.

      1. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        Re: perhaps concerned parents could, oh, we dunno, try a little parenting?

        as a grandfather you have NO idea what's been happening on the kiddie front for the last 10 years. So yes, I ABSOLUTELY stand by my comments. And given a reasonably large circle of people I know, with kids of similar age, I'm happy (or rather "unhappy") that what happens in our household is common. Despite whatever efforts at "parenting".

        1. Chemical Bob

          Re: perhaps concerned parents could, oh, we dunno, try a little parenting?

          Sorry, AC, gramps is right. Proper parenting does result in kids who have no interest in the latest shiny-shiny or facebook or whatever the latest nonsense may be. How do I know? My wife and I have done it.

  2. Dan 55 Silver badge

    I guess they're pressuring the right people

    Apple already have tightened up loot box restrictions in games in their App Store (a bit) so I guess if anyone's in a position to try and bring some sanity to social network apps, it's Apple.

    The only downside is they need parents stupid enough to get iPhone 8s for their kids.

    1. Dave 126 Silver badge

      Re: I guess they're pressuring the right people

      Re your last paragraph, yeah, round here it tends to be cheap Android tablets that are given to pacify children when their parents are in the pub, not the pricier Apple iPads.

      However, the latest version of iOS always comes to several generations of iDevice, not just the latest (currently the iPhone 8)

  3. AdamWill

    parenting

    "While Apple is no doubt super seriously considering this shareholder memo, perhaps concerned parents could, oh, we dunno, try a little parenting?"

    The measures the groups suggest are actually intended to *enable* parents to parent. Right now, they have two fairly crappy choices:

    1) try not to let Junior have a smartphone at all

    2) let Junior have a smartphone with essentially no ability to control how Junior uses it

    1) is difficult because kids really, really, really want smartphones, there are actual genuine reasons why it might be a good idea for kids to have them for *some* purposes, and given that the world is the way it is, at *some* point kids are going to have to figure out how to use one, and 18 probably isn't the best age for that. Plus lots of other reasons. 2) is crappy because it's very difficult for a parent to effectively control how a kid uses a smartphone, once they have one, without being hilariously invasive.

    The measures proposed by the shareholder groups, honestly, seem pretty damn sensible to me: they're asking Apple to implement more advanced parental controls that will make it possible for parents to let kids have smartphones, but exercise more control over how and when they're allowed to use them. I don't really see how this is particularly objectionable, and it's something Apple could quite practically achieve.

    1. katgod

      Re: parenting

      If your young kids need a phone then I suggest a dumb phone they are cheaper and will not have the same addictive properties but then of course they won't keep your children quiet for hours on end.

      Don't you hate it when your child becomes best friends with the baby sitter.

    2. Charlie Clark Silver badge

      Re: parenting

      Rinse and repeat for child distractions over the last 50 years: television, video games, etc. Parental controls aren't the solution: more engagement with the offspring and eductation of them by the parents is what's required. I'm going to get on with this myself just as soon as I put my I-Pad down.

  4. Tim99 Silver badge
    Gimp

    Definitely not perfect, but has basic parental controls

    "Use parental controls on your iPhone, iPad, and iPod touch": Apple link.

    1. Dan 55 Silver badge

      Re: Definitely not perfect, but has basic parental controls

      There's no category for social media, or time limits for apps in general.

  5. Anonymous South African Coward Bronze badge

    Why would I want to update to the latest iOS in order to mitigate Spectre and Meltdown attacks?

    Mnaaaaaaarh,.

  6. Steve Davies 3 Silver badge

    Same old, same old

    Cupertino idiot-tax collector

    It seems that the 'friendliness' towards Apple that this site seemed to show was just a passing fad.

    Perhaps some here are addicted towards hating Apple?

    Back on topic.

    Without the Apps like Facebook, Twitter, etc, etc ,etc, and games like Flappy thingy the phone be it an iPhone or any one of the thousands of Androids won't be as addictive.

    Why aren't these so called concered citizens going after them then?

    Nope, Apple is as always seen as an easy target.

    not saying that they don't deserve it but as they are really only a bit player when it comes to phone sales and usage worldwide does not Google also bear some responsibility????

    Will we see the same efforts to get them to fix Android?

    1. Pascal Monett Silver badge

      Friendliness ?

      I'm hoping to read more articles that bite, as the title bar says. If I wanted wimpy articles that pamper companies I'd go and read Newsweek, or almost anything else for that matter.

    2. EuKiwi

      Re: Same old, same old

      Funny.

      You moan about picking on Apple, then say 'back on topic', and then moan again that people are only picking on Apple, not Android.

      The fact is, this article is about a letter written by shareholders to Apple - they are unlikely in the same letter to touch on the subject of Android, nor does the article exclude efforts to have the same controls and improvements added to Android. You're whining in the opposite direction. This is these days fashionably called 'Trumpism' - 'waaah, but what about what person X did??'.

      An article focusing on one thing does not automatically mean that another is reduced in importance or relevance.

      1. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        Re: Same old, same old

        I suspect it is the somewhat puerile 'idiot tax' that was being objected to. It gets a little boring after a while (that point was passed long time ago).

  7. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    Kids get addicted to smart phones because what's the alternative?

    TV is rubbish. (thankfully)

    Reading doesn't appeal. (Not for my kids, why is that? Well, I read a lot and they see me do it and I tell them how much I enjoy it, this then gets them reading, similarly if you sit with your head in your phone all the time what do you think they are going to do when they get older?)

    They don't go out anymore.

    That leaves smart phones. As I explained above it's easily fixed.

  8. Charlie Clark Silver badge

    First world problems…

    Sometimes the idea of some kind of Violent Unkown Event isn't that unappealing.

  9. Dave 126 Silver badge

    Win Pho

    I believe Windows Phone had a children's mode that allowed them to play specified games or watch Ceebeebies but not access the wider web, view mummy's special photos or delete her telephone numbers.

    It didn't have all the more sophisticated controls as outlined in the article though.

  10. Andytug

    Unusually Microsoft appear to be ahead on this....

    Whilst I hate a lot of what they do, there are parental controls built into Windows 10, sends you a weekly report of sites accessed, can be time/age barred, etc (mind you, don't get me started on the messy process of setting MS accounts up, and $deity help you if you forget your password...) .....unfortunately Windows Phone is er....dead, so it's only good for PCs, laptops and the odd tablet.

    You can also restrict wifi access (a lot of routers allow time barring) but if you age bar Ithings they lose access to YouTube.....which doesn't exactly make you popular! (Yes there's the YouTube kids app but it's a bit hit and miss).

    In the end you still have to remove the gadgets from the younger ones physically, tantrums or not. Same as you would with any other toy when they should be sleeping.

    1. cambsukguy

      Re: Unusually Microsoft appear to be ahead on this....

      I didn't even know this was an issue - I assumed all platforms had some overriding system that was not based on each individual device being setup specifically.

      For instance, even WinPho had alternative browsers so users could bypass anything that was limiting them in the IE browser.

      I used what is now MS Family Safety from the getgo on WinPhone and it works well on Win10 - it was complex before that though.

      Because it works outside the device, it covers all devices used - my sole minor son uses four devices. The reports and web page cover device use separately, adding up the various bits from each device.

      TBH, the default setting for everything was sufficient for us, anything falling foul of the system can be overridden at the time, anything done that seems dubious can be blocked in future when seen. Most of it I see is dodgy sites called up by ads from places like Manga/Anime websites.

      In order to work of course, I presume it needs total control of the device, probably not possible on Android or iOS (for MS that is). When a minor is the user of a WinPhone, because an MS account is required to use one - it enrolls that device into the system at the basic level. This means app installation can be monitored and limited etc and purchases controlled to prevent overspending etc. Crucially, this is not controlled at the device though.

      How can this still be a problem?, even for careless/naive parents, the default setup should add some level of protection.

      Requiring parents to do any heavy (or even light) lifting is virtually guaranteed to leave vast amounts of kids free to run riot.

  11. Jason Bloomberg Silver badge
    Childcatcher

    It's the end of the world as we know it

    Marijuana, Rock and Roll, Television, Video Games, D&D, Punk Rock, Furbies, Piercings, were all harbingers for the end of society as we know it. There's always something new to add to the list.

    I can however confirm that masturbation does indeed weaken the knees and damage eyesight. Or maybe that's just part of getting old.

  12. Gafferz

    Are Apple that far behind? My kids have Android tabs and I control their access (they need to request App installs) their Youtube content (Youtube Kids and no way to upgrade) and their time limits and its all pretty easy, and I get alerts on their usage/activity.

    You still have to set the rules with them in the first place (homework first, different rules for weekdays and weekends), but that's just basic parenting.

  13. chivo243 Silver badge
    Headmaster

    Well Duh

    It's shiny, it makes noise, it vibrates, kids will love it...

    You're the parent... Who's in charge? I know my niece has had her iThingy taken away( a week or more) on numerous occasions for not doing what her mother asked...

    While I applaud someone(or groups) thinking of the children, the children's parents should be thinking first, not crying foul when they've lost control of their children due to iThingy addiction.

    Pedant as he looks as clueless as some parents...

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: Well Duh

      unfortunately you're missing the point. Regardless of amount of time we have put (since toddling age) into "parenting", the kids just go after small screen like...

      And now the older one's gonna go to college, where facebook and whatsapp rule (even though they ban them in the classrooms!). You really have no idea what this _really_ implies, it's bye-bye old farts, hello likes! I mean, yeah, sure, you can BAN them from owning a mobile, see how long you'll last as a family :/

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