back to article UK exam chiefs: About the compsci coursework you've been working on. It means diddly-squat

GCSE computer science coursework will no longer count toward the final grade after answers to set tasks were leaked online last year. Exam regulator Ofqual announced that non-exam assessment will not count to the final mark in GCSE computer science in 2018 or 2019. Previously the 20-hour assessment had accounted for 20 per …

  1. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    So it all hinges on exams

    ...how useful and representative for real life subjects like computing.

    1. Aitor 1

      Re: So it all hinges on exams

      It is.

      Many employers now filter based on telephone inteviews and put give a notepad/whateverpad to program a solution to the problemas they subject the candidates to..

      1. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        Re: So it all hinges on exams

        "Many employers now filter based on telephone inteviews "

        Commonly that's after filtering on surnames and checking Facebook, Linked In, etc.

        1. ThomH

          Re: So it all hinges on exams

          My most recent round of job hunting involved several trips to HackerRank and equivalent sites — timed coding tests (in C++ for my roles) in an in-browser development environment. You're scored automatically based on passing or failing unit tests, some of which involve timing constraints, but then the better interviewers will examine your code and require that you defend it.

          I thought it was all a fairly rational way to proceed: it probably gets as close as anything to the amount of useful information you can acquire about a candidate during the period of an interview process.

    2. Kernel

      Re: So it all hinges on exams

      "...how useful and representative for real life subjects like computing."

      Indeed - how much better it would be for IT jobs to eventually go to people who learnt by looking up canned solutions on-line, rather than figuring it out for themselves like some of the students will be doing.

      Oh, wait - we already have this - it's called off-shoring.

      The teaching system for the current set of students has been deliberately compromised, and I think the correct decision has been made to make the outcome as fair as possible to those whom, for whatever reason, will/can not take advantage of that fact - it's not an ideal solution, but I think it's not the worst they could come up with.

      Also, note the following:

      "Exam regulator Ofqual announced that non-exam assessment will not count to the final mark in GCSE computer science in 2018 or 2019.

      This solution only applies to two years of course intake ie., the compromised coursework requirements will be replaced and then all is back to normal.

      1. Gordon 10
        WTF?

        Re: So it all hinges on exams

        I'm sorry I beg to differ. Any examination that is predicated on suggested answers not being posted to the internet is pretty flawed to begin with. Is this just an exam board too lazy to deal with plagarism? Am I the only one where at leat half my degree exam questions were repeated from past papers - how is this any different?

        To my mind its rather like punishing a programmer for using something from StackExchange.

        (Also an aside - since when is a 10% increase "plateauing" El Reg? Also I thought the idea was to capture the interest of those who might find it useful in the future to have done a Computing course - not frog march all and sundry through it like its french, german or english lit.)

        1. Naselus

          Re: So it all hinges on exams

          "Am I the only one where at leat half my degree exam questions were repeated from past papers - how is this any different?"

          We didn't know exactly which ones would be the repeats in advance?

    3. Locky
      Boffin

      Re: So it all hinges on exams

      Q1)

      You have a roll of carpet, a bag of quicklime and spade

      What IT problem are you equiped to solve?

      1. mistersaxon

        Re: So it all hinges on exams

        Spectre?

  2. Will Godfrey Silver badge
    FAIL

    Numpties

    So how do potential employers find the kids that actually put the work in to learn something useful?

    1. Russell Chapman Esq.

      Re: Numpties

      Good question. I'm helping the son of a family we know, whose father passed away suddenly. Got him set up learning Raspbery Pi for starters. If that goes well, will help him learn Programmable Logic Controllers, Robotics

    2. MrT

      Re: Numpties

      Tell the kids to start putting their skills to good use, maybe write a few hobby programs of their own (original ideas in Unity or Unreal Engine, maybe?), then set up a website on a free service like Wix, and point hyperlinks to download their programs from Dropbox, OneDrive, or similar so they don't have to pay for bandwidth on the website host. Then get on Instagram and YouTube, set up a channel to post about what they're doing, gather likes and feedback, respond to it all with updates, etc.

      Then tell them to reference their website in any job application to give employers a chance to see what they can do. It might not be fully relevant to the position they are going for, but any that put in the effort to do that with a reasonable level of success are surely already a step further up the ladder in several ways.

      All of the above is not a quick thing, but maybe that's the point... Learning the discipline to do that is one reason why still doing the practical section is necessary.

      1. ciderbuddy

        Re: Numpties

        Exactly this. The whole system needs rethinking, and until this happens we will always have a factory-fodder education system in this country. I like these ideas as they are demonstrable and practical skills. Exam only CS is a joke; I was in teacher training when it was a 50/50 split between exams and coursework, and I thought it was bad when it dropped to 20%.

        tbh, the skills shortage of the teachers is shocking too

        1. Anonymous Coward
          Anonymous Coward

          Re: Numpties

          When my son was choosing GCSE options a few years ago before the CS GCSE when the "equivalent" offering from his school was an IT BTEC (allegedly equivalent to 2 GCSEs) .... at the open evening where parents got to discuss with the subject teachers the IT person had a "sales pitch" that was basically "its all course work and you can resubmit as many times as you want so everyone can guarantee they'll get a distinction if they want to"

          1. Dabooka

            Re: Numpties

            @AC

            If that's what you were told re: BTECs, then the school are breaching the conditions of the qualification with Pearsons. BTECs, love them or loathe them, do not allow limitless re-submissions (can't think of a qual that does). In fact the specifications are very clear on the strict guidance associated with BTEC assignments, re-subs, briefs used and even the amount and detail of written feedback the teacher can give.

            No I'm not naive enough to think dodgyness doesn't go on in some places, but the structure is pretty well defined and followed in my experience.

        2. kjw

          Re: Numpties

          Can you elaborate on why testing under exam conditions only or mostly is a joke?

          Do you have any insight into the issues of moderation between schools and parental involvement in coursework? Is coursework or project work which contributes to an examination grade always performed under controlled conditions at school?

      2. fruitoftheloon
        Happy

        @MrT:Re: Numpties

        MR T,

        indeed, my lad [9 yo] is loving building animations/mini games in Scratch and Kodu, which other folk can see across the interwebs, it is great for his confidence, he has been showing the teachers how some of it works now, as well as helping his classmates...

        Not too sure what to get him into next, all constructive suggestions are welcome!

        Cheers,

        Jay

        1. MrT

          Re: @MrT:Numpties

          If he's already happy with Scratch, give MIT's AppInventor a try - especially if there's a spare Android phone available to try things out on. All it needs is a Google account to log in, as it saves work on the Drive. There are loads of tutorials for different aspects, and it includes an Android emulator too.

          1. fruitoftheloon
            Pint

            @MrT:Re: @MrT:Numpties

            Mr T,

            thanks for the suggestion matey, he has a Samsung Note 8 he could try it out on.

            Have one on us!

            Cheers,

            Jay.

    3. Lee D Silver badge

      Re: Numpties

      You can spot a learner a mile off.

      You won't care about their qualifications, as such, you'll notice the other stuff they've done. Seriously, do you employ someone in IT because they have GCSE Computer Science? No. You employ them because they have X number of GCSEs plus they've done this and this and this, and have this hobby, and built this, and this is their YouTube maker channel, and "Cool, how does that work?" when you show them around.

      The only people who give any kinds of credence to GCSEs / A-Levels are: Teachers (because of school league tables), HR people hiring positions they have NO idea what they involve.

      Industry certs are the same. I'm much more interested that someone actually managed a live network for X years than that they have the last X years of Microsoft certs.

      Degrees are different - that's an optional 3/4 years of studying that they CHOOSE to do, at an advanced level, with almost no help from others. It doesn't even matter what they do it in - it means they're a learner by choice. But, like I say, you can spot the learners.

      GCSEs are to get you into college for A-Levels,

      A-Levels are to get you into university for degrees.

      Nobody pays any real heed to GCSE/A-Level outside of that. Sure, it's often a "Must have basic GCSE in English or Maths" line in there somewhere, but HR write that, not the people who will be working with the guy. And there's some justification in there that you'd expect someone able to count/write properly to have passed through the joke-which-is-GCSE nowadays without any trouble at all.

      Other than that, if you want to hire a kid you look for a learner. They can be a complete school dropout, you can still spot a learner ("I dropped out to start my own business doing... and I was successful for X years... and as part of that I did Y and Z...").

      I have hired from the Apprentice programs. The guy had previously qualified / worked as a chef and a jeweller's sales assistant. He's now, two years down the line, an IT Tech for a large company with a career path and a work history in IT, beating all his "mates" who only have GCSEs or A-Levels (and, in a few years, degrees) in Computer Science.

      Especially nowadays, all the kids have a big list of weird qualifications because that's what the schools push them towards if they don't get GCSEs. Hairdressing. Catering qualifications. Customer service. Etc. You can't really pay heed to them as EVERYONE has them, or could get them.

      I have a degree. In maths. It proves I can learn.

      I started an IT business out of university. It proved I am skilled enough to make a living and juggle my own staff / business / accounts.

      My first "real" job, and everyone since, they couldn't care less about my GCSEs, ALevels or what my degree is in (three times I've had it stated that HAVING a degree is what they look for... lots of the people in high-power jobs have degrees like Art History or Geography etc.). They look for "what else has he done", "what has he done that proves he can do the job" and "what has he done that proves he can tackle something he's never seen before".

      Sure, if you want a career in McDonald's, I'm sure GCSE's or "food safety" courses will help.

      But if you're hiring personnel for ANY job, ignore the Qualifications page unless it's literally blank. Even being full of junk every year is suspicious (how do you find the time/money to do all those courses? Oh, your employer MADE you do them...).

      But scoot down to the "what other transferable skills" bit and/or have a chat with them. They don't need a massive industry experience to stand out from the others.

      1. John H Woods Silver badge

        Re: Numpties

        All true -- but -- you've got to get past HR first. That is a huge problem, as you have to be assessed by people who have absolutely no idea how to assess you.

      2. Dabooka

        Re: Numpties

        I'd agree overall but you're making some huge generalisations there. GCSEs offer routes other than A Levels you know, and how else do you define academic achievement (I'm not defending the qulas per se mind).

  3. EvilGardenGnome
    Headmaster

    You keep using that word, I do not think it means what you think it means.

    "Since the GCSE was launched in 2013, interest in the course has waned. Some 64,159 Year 11 students registered for the computer science exam this year, compared with 60,521 in 2016."

    Now, I'm no maths major, but something about those sums doesn't quite add up with the first sentence.

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: You keep using that word, I do not think it means what you think it means.

      Aye, if 60,521 took the course in 2016 how can it be 70,000, it's a two year course and this is for the final year.

      1. Dabooka

        Re: You keep using that word, I do not think it means what you think it means.

        Numbers quoted will be for new registrations, it won't account for those already on programme.

        I'm thinking that with reduced demographics entering the 14 yr age band in those years, it might actually be a percentage increase over that time period?

  4. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    “UK”?

    “UK”? You misspelled EWNI, which is not quite the same thing when it comes to education systems… ;-)

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: “UK”?

      Assuming you mean "England, Wales and Northern Ireland", I was going to say something along those lines, except that- having checked- Ofqual doesn't cover Northern Ireland or Wales either.

      "However, the body insisted that all UK schools must continue to give students the opportunity within the timetable to complete the tasks."

      Ofqual can "insist" it wants a gift-wrapped pony, but it's not likely to get it as far as Scotland- or Wales or NI- is concerned! (To be fair, this is more likely inaccurate paraphrasing on the part of the same person that wrote the headline than Ofqual's fault).

      1. katrinab Silver badge

        Re: “UK”?

        Some private schools in Scotland do English exams, so presumably they would be covered by the edict?

  5. Richard Simpson

    So, it's now the same as the iGCSE then?

    Great! My daughter's school decided not to offer Computing GCSE because of a lack of interest. So we decided to teach it to her at home because it was her favourite subject but we couldn't teach her the GCSE because you can't do the coursework at home so we have started to teach her the iGCSE which doesn't have that bit.

    Now we discover that we needn't have bothered and could just have taught her the GCSE in the first place!

    1. Dabooka

      Re: So, it's now the same as the iGCSE then?

      iGSCEs in all subjects are a joke. Most universities don't recognise them either for home students, granted not much of an issue for Computing but those poor sods doing English and maths iGSCEs are often in for a shock come UCAS....

  6. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    About those assessments

    Why don't they time the assessments so then they are all at the same time? The whole idea of computer science isn't about memorising commands. I have seen that exams usually are all about memorisation. When I studied IT, we used BBC computers back in the day. I hated WordWise.

  7. JimmyPage Silver badge
    Joke

    Put a lot of effort into something that'll never see the light of day ?

    Sounds like a perfect CompSci project.

    1. SVV

      Re: Put a lot of effort into something that'll never see the light of day ?

      Not quite perfect. It should reflect the real world even more closely, even though the exercise will have to take part in seperate sessions over several weeks. The first hour must be taken up with an embarassingly patronising pep-talk from the teacher about what a great project this is and how it's going to create a "new paradigm" or some other such nonsense, along with a vague outline of what the project actually is. The next 3 hours will be spent in a "requirements gathering" phase, where the pupils have to translate this waffle into a design for the actual system, going back to the teacher every half hour to receive non-answers to their questions about what is actually needed.

      After a ten-minute "project kick off party" with a plastic cup of warm orange squash, the project management chart will be revealed, with the pupils informed that they have to produce a detailed projectr plan with time estimates, and give half hourly updates as the work progresses,so that the chart can be kept up to date.

      Then the actual work begins at the computer. The pupils are regularly interrupted with simulated phone calls and urgent emails to test their stress management capabilities, and the sound of a loud argument in another office is piped in at regular intervals. After about the 12th hour, the first requirement changes arrive, thereafter increasing in number at a staedy rate until the 16th hour. After 18 hours, the work completed goes "live", even though it is not fully finished and the teacher starts testing the delivered work and harassing any pupils whose work contains bugs and demands that they are fixed instantly. The pupils are informed that the "project" has been cancelled at the 19 hours 55 minute mark of the exercise.

      Only software that comes close to working after all this is demmed to earn its' writer a pass. No marks can be gained or lost due to the quality or lack thereof of the actual code.

      This willl be an adequate introductio to real life IT for any pupil with aspirations to work in the industry. The pupils will not think to share their solutions with each other between sessions, as they'll be so busy bitching about the teacher, requirements changes, etc with each other.

      1. Dan 55 Silver badge

        Re: Put a lot of effort into something that'll never see the light of day ?

        Don't forget the two hour meetings, timetabled at the end of one day and the start of the next.

        1. Destroy All Monsters Silver badge

          Re: Put a lot of effort into something that'll never see the light of day ?

          ...and then you get yelled at by "persons in charge" while a dumpster fire can be noticed in the background.

          1. TRT Silver badge

            Re: Put a lot of effort into something that'll never see the light of day ?

            And don't forget to allocate 15% of the time to investigating and documenting variances between the actual operation of, and the available documentation for, any frameworks you are using.

            1. 's water music

              Re: Put a lot of effort into something that'll never see the light of day ?

              surely a realistic scenario where the requirements are changed out of all recognition sometime during the exam period would have meant that the compromised specs simply wouldn't matter?

            2. Dan 55 Silver badge

              Re: Put a lot of effort into something that'll never see the light of day ?

              And don't forget to allocate 15% of the time to investigating and documenting variances between the actual operation of, and the available documentation for, any frameworks you are using.

              Luxury. I get 10% of time for investigating the differences, but no time for documenting them for everyone else. Six months later, guess what happens when someone else runs into the same problem?

      2. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        Re: Put a lot of effort into something that'll never see the light of day ?

        You missed to things.

        It should be in The Cloud.

        It should use AI.

        1. Rich 11

          Re: Put a lot of effort into something that'll never see the light of day ?

          You missed a third thing:

          No-one who knows what they're doing should on any account be allowed to talk to the actual users. Skilled intermediaries will be employed to fuck up this part of the project.

    2. Flywheel

      Re: Put a lot of effort into something that'll never see the light of day ?

      Also:

      1. There'll be a last-minute addition to the project which is absolutely vital but there's no budget for it..

      2. As soon as the project goes live, any incoming data formats will change because the person that was recruited to create it left the job to work in waste management.

      1. This post has been deleted by its author

      2. Alan Brown Silver badge

        Re: Put a lot of effort into something that'll never see the light of day ?

        "the person that was recruited to create it left the job to work in waste management."

        That'll be the one who was lighting fires in the dumpsters? :)

  8. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    Education is a political football that has been kicked to death, swapping and changing the GCSE at the last minute is ridiculous and counter productive to what they are supposed to achieve and that is a proficiency in the given subject. You can't have a CompSci without course work it just doesn't work, how do you fully demonstrate your knowledge in an exam? Knowing the syntax and being able to describe what something does is not the same as putting it all together in a working program.

    1. JimC

      CompSci without coursework

      You can't have coursework to which the answers have been published either. So what were the alternatives? Either do what they've done and ditch the coursework, or else produce a whole new set of coursework, publish it in a mad panic and put the kids under extreme pressure to finish it all up in a fraction of the normal time? Oh, and hope that they've plugged the leak so the new coursework doesn't get published too. And deal with endless whinging about how shabbily the kids have been treated because they weren't given enough time.

      Nope, when there are no good answers you have to make a guess as to which is the least bad one.

      1. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        Re: CompSci without coursework

        Too many students were offshoring their coursework to India. The examiners couldn't work out whether to add or deduct marks..........

      2. Dan 55 Silver badge

        Re: CompSci without coursework

        There is no One True Answer. Unlike exams, there is more than one right answer in coursework and better answers should be awarded higher grades.

        Programming and programming languages are built on plagiarism. The fact someone's posted the exact question and an answer doesn't mean anything. Similar questions are also repeated on Stack Overflow about 500 times.

        1. MrT

          Re: CompSci without coursework

          ... "better answers should be awarded higher grades." exactly - and the marking criteria for the controlled assessment activity did just that - the guidance to assessors gives bands for complexity of answers within the total mark awarded. If a student uses simpler solutions they are limited to a lower mark band - one example I've seen in the past is to have an 8-point question split into three bands based on quality of answer (1-3, 4-6, 7-8) and marks didn't reach the higher bands unless specific features were seen in the answer.

        2. TDog
          FAIL

          Re: CompSci without coursework

          Sadly there is one true answer.

          I discovered this the hard way when I advised my god daughter on some pascal programming in the '80's; they had been taught one particular loop process (can't remember which; not for next, might have been do while or repeat until) and the use of the fully functional loop I explained and she coded was failed as "not the right answer".

          I got a tad shirty about this and then discovered the sad truth that Shaw's dictum about those who can't...teach was sadly too true. It was explained to me in no uncertain terms that "THIS WAS THE ANSWER" and all else was a fail.

          Some twenty years later and I was doing an OU Java course simulating race conditions on a train track and gating via a tunnel. My code worked perfectly including race conditions but was failed by the tutor. I did enquire as to whether it had been run, and was informed that it didn't have to be - it was the wrong answer...

          You are correct; plagiarism (albeit with the skill to recognise an appropriate solution) is one of the few bases of good code authoring. Indeed, other than FP every time we spin up an instance of a class we are plagiarising our own work (or whomsoever we copied it from). Sadly most people marking the solutions provided are better at copying the "FAIL" rather than evaluating the submission.

          1. Kevin Johnston

            Re: CompSci without coursework

            This...oh so many times this.

            I was banned from assisting with homework as my efforts produced good answers but without the critical key words. I was advised that a wrong answer with the keywords was worth more marks than a right answer without them.

            How the hell is that right? On a couple of instances in college I produced a more compact working solution than the model answer in digital design work. Under the current rules I would have failed each module for that

            1. James 51

              Re: CompSci without coursework

              Once during my degree a program I wrote and another student's were put up on the projector and the lecturer asked the class which we thought was 'better'. Mine was half the size, faster (programs were demoed on another projector) and used more advanced language features. Even the person who wrote the other program picked mine. The lecturer then said no, the longer, slower less complex code was better as it was simpler, saving a small amount of time imperceptible to people wasn't that big a deal and six months from now it would be easier to maintain. Not quite the same situation as this though. I understand teaching particular concepts but if you have something that works you should never be given a fail.

              1. David Roberts
                Windows

                Re: CompSci without coursework - half the size and faster

                IMHO the tutor was unusually sensible and aware of the real world.

                Back in the day (a long way back) we didn't like employing Comp Sci graduates because most of their training seemed to be fancy tricks and self modifying code designed to minimise memory usage.

                All very clever, but if at least 50% of the programming team can't understand what you are doing and why then you are writing unmaintainable code and any gains in performance are negated by the extra time taken by the poor sod who will probably end up rewriting the whole thing when you move on to pastures new.

                1. MrBanana

                  Re: CompSci without coursework - half the size and faster

                  There is a difference between well written and well documented complex code, and poorly written and badly documented complex code. Simplicity is a great goal, and there is usually no reason that the non-clever, easy to understand route shouldn't work out to be the most efficient. But there are cases where trick code is necessary - just make sure it is thoroughly documented for those that come after you. Very often it will be yourself, some years later, with no clue as to why you did what you did back then - you have to write your explanation to satisfy that future idiot.

                2. anonymous boring coward Silver badge

                  Re: CompSci without coursework - half the size and faster

                  And don't forget: The tutor also had the satisfaction of belittling the student that was way more clever than himself. An opportunity never to be missed.

              2. JimC

                Re: CompSci without coursework

                Well there's a strong argument for picking maintainability over speed...

                However I think the problem here is the art of the practical in marking. If, instead of checking against a list of bullet point features that have been taught, the examiner has to sit down and evaluate every paper from scratch, including running the code in detail, how long is it going to take to mark each paper?

                I always strongly suspected that writing code that was more advanced and sophisticated than we'd really been taught was what cost my my third distinction grade in my college course, but after a long career in the industry I have much more sympathy for the examiner now than I did back then...

            2. r_c_a_d_t

              Re: CompSci without coursework

              Unfortunately I have found this too. In all the subjects I have looked at, not just computer science.

              Try downloading some past papers and look at the marking schemes. There is some flexibility, but not much.

              Stray too far from the beaten track and you are "wrong". This is why students are basically coached in how to pass the exam ... "first you write this (1 mark) then this (1 mark) then..."

              1. Anonymous Coward
                Anonymous Coward

                Re: CompSci without coursework

                " This is why students are basically coached in how to pass the exam "

                Yes ... I became very depressed when I went to a "help your child revise for their History GCSE" session at son's school to find the main things they thought we should be ensuring our children knew was

                1) don't try to answer questions from options you didn't do

                2) If a question has 3 marks then there's probably 3 pioints you need to make

                3) Examiners like it if you repeat the question in the answer

                .... it sounded frighteningly like the "teach to the test" storyline in The Wire (season 4 I think)

                1. ArrZarr Silver badge
                  FAIL

                  Re: CompSci without coursework

                  @AC

                  It gets worse at university level as questions are often lifted straight from previous papers. Revision for a lot of papers is just to do past papers and remember what you did when you did the same question in an open book situation.

          2. Andy A
            FAIL

            Re: CompSci without coursework

            Reminds me of all those industry qualification exams which ask "what command would you enter to....." and where the automatic marking framework checked for "EXACTLY EQUAL TO", when their product in the real world allowed for shorthand versions.

            Microsoft, CISCO and (back in the day) Novell - we are blaming you!

        3. Anonymous Coward
          Anonymous Coward

          Re: CompSci without coursework

          "There is no One True Answer. Unlike exams,"

          ... you've clearly not read A level matsh and physics marking schemes ... when my older son was doign A levels I tried to help by "marking" his practice papers and was amazed by the number of answers that were allowed as they would regularily give a several "expected wrong answers" to the first part of a question and then indicatie how many marks were awarded if someone then used one of those wrong answers in the second part of the question ... was never quirte sure how "unexepcted wrong answers" were treated though!

  9. Dig

    When I were a lad

    Back in my GCE 'O' level and A level days you picked your own project to work on. The teacher would mark the work and then have it cross checked by others as the examiner wouldn't necessarily have the same hardware to run it on. They were mainly judging the documentation standards and perceived development effort and rely on the trustworthiness of the teach to gauge that it actually worked.

    My O level project was a disk editor for a CPM based 380Z and the A'level was a Compiler for Sinclair QL Basic.

    I guess in them days there may have been more trust in the teachers, and there were probably less students taking the subject so more rigorous examination could have been performed.

    Now I guess every one is supposed to do the same thing so the marking structure is easier and more consistent.

    1. Stephen Wilkinson

      Re: When I were a lad

      I wrote a text based adventure program for my "O" Level project, I'm impressed with what you did!

    2. MrBanana

      Re: When I were a lad

      My O level project was writing an on screen editor that allowed a Commodore PET to bypass the standard font settings (such as they are with a dot-matrix device) and create custom graphics characters for printing. Mostly in hand written machine code (we didn't have an assembler) to drive the screen and printer. I got a poor mark because they couldn't understand it - I should have written a BASIC program to read in and some numbers and plot a pretty graph like everyone else.

      My A level project was also confusing to the examiners who seemed to be only looking for a stock inventory system (or anything that allowed you to show off your "skill" in producing a bubble sort) written in BASIC on a CP/M machine. Instead I wrote an assembler version of Conway's Game of Life (BASIC was too slow for real time updates) and got a lower mark than three of my fellow students for whom I had written half of their projects. I probably should have included a bubble sort in my assembler code.

    3. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: When I were a lad

      For my SYS project (~Scottish A Levels) I drew a piano keyboard in oblique view and animated the keys and also played and plotted the notes on a bass/treble stave - all this on a BBC Model B :-)

      We also had to produce 20 "small" programs so I implemented a whole host of search/sorting algs from Knuth

  10. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    The correct way to pass CompSci exam...

    ...is to offshore it and have them copy and paste in the answers they don't understand.

  11. wolfetone Silver badge

    If the current GCSE course is anything like the one I did in 2003/2004 then it's going to be a useless qualification anyway.

    If you're in Year 9 or a parent of a child in that year and wondering what to do, don't do the ICT qualification. Do something creative like music. Go to college and learn IT properly, but use your last years of secondary school for something fun, not for something useless.

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      As per but also apprenticeships - a great way to get into IT these days, in my humble.

      By the time your cohort are leaving uni with a shiny degree and a £60k debt, you have three years experience and a deposit for a house (so long as you want to live somewhere sensible and not that there London).

      I know who I'd be employing in my small software biz.

      1. wolfetone Silver badge

        There is that. But there is a caveat with that.

        Those who have the degree, yes they will end up with a £60k debt but it opens the door to higher paying jobs than those on apprenticeships. Right now I've no degree, I've a HND which I haven't topped up, and I'm at my salary ceiling. If I had a degree I could move up the ladder again. But time, money, life, all things that get in the way of doing that.

      2. kjw

        Are you specifically referring to the apprenticeships which are "incentivised" by the UK's Apprenticeship Levy?

        I'd say cohorts (plural) as not all institutions and not all degrees are equivalent. I'm not sure how much of a decision there is for a well-advised student between a proven qualification from a highly reputable institution and something new with input from an employer who potentially knows little of long-term educational commitments? I don't have anything against the concept but it'll be interesting to see who goes into these apprenticeships and what they think of them.

        Plenty of university students have good work experience from project work, holiday work, part-time work, and there's the world of thin/thick sandwich courses. There's no binary division between those with practical experience and those without and some will have worked in different sectors/for multiple employers.

        They're a bit rare in the UK but interview a University of Waterloo graduate if you get the chance. The courses aren't short but I think you'll be pleasantly surprised.

  12. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    Why is there a 9 year old girl in the photo?

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Joke

      > Why is there a 9 year old girl in the photo?

      I assume they chose that photo because it illustrates what a cheat looks like: someone who smuggles textbooks into the exam room and openly uses a smartphone to look up answers on then Internet. She's even written her list of 'memorized' equations onto the blackboard, hoping that the invigilator won't notice.

  13. herman

    So, interest declined from 60000 to 64000...

    That seems like disk drive size mathematics.

  14. Simon Hickling

    For authenticity

    Why not produce a suite of unit / automated tests that the students can use to show that their particular implementation meets the acceptance criteria. That removes the issue of whether it's been done "the right way", and with a quick glance at the code, can be assessed to ensure they haven't just returned the values expected by the tests.

    There are also plenty of tools for spotting plagiarism, that the code could be passed through to spot people who may have been "outsourcing" the work. Though obviously it may well be that the specifics mean that a lot of people use similar constructs for the same outcomes - just like the real world, a lot of it will be copied and pasted from github, Stack Overflow, etc.

  15. werdsmith Silver badge

    You know those kids who have got parents who have written code professionally..... they are getting A* for the programming component. Not really a level playing field for those that have normal parents. I know from experience that the python program requirement in the coursework was a trivial 30 minute effort for an experienced coder.

    Same applies with coursework in some of the other subjects. Kids that have parents that can speak a language, excel in that MFL exam.

    1. anonymous boring coward Silver badge

      "You know those kids who have got parents who have written code professionally..... they are getting A* for the programming component. Not really a level playing field for those that have normal parents."

      Well, at least it makes up a little bit for having abnormal parents.

      "Same applies with coursework in some of the other subjects. Kids that have parents that can speak a language, excel in that MFL exam."

      Yes, those with parents that can speak no language are really at a disadvantage. (And I'm not even joking now. Sadly.)

    2. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      You know those kids who have got parents who have written code professionally.

      If it's any consolation, having a parent who is a theoretical physicist is terrible if you are studying physics. I keep trying to explain the physical principles instead of supplying the canned answer. Have you any idea how annoying that is? :-)

  16. fedoraman

    Time and a place for brilliance

    And an exam ... isn't it. Sorry, but I tell my students not to show off. Show that (a) you've understood the course material, (b) you can apply the concepts and techniques that you've been taught, and (c) clarity and maintainability count for more than pure speed or brilliant but obscure design. I'm sorry, but that's (generally) the way it is. And there are arguments for it, like seeing the whole lifetime of the code that you're writing, and being kind to the maintainers who will come after you (sounds needlessly Messianic). There is a place for highly-optimised, speed-critical code, brilliant if convoluted design, and wringing every last cycle of efficiency out of the language. But it isn't in GCSE CompSci exam answers.

  17. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    A teacher's viewpoint

    Having previously taught the GCSE NEA over the last couple of years (I've escaped Secondary Education for this year), I feel so sorry for all involved in dealing with this.

    The NEAs have been unfit for purpose since being introduced - they do not replicate real world situations. It is a 20 hour exam, meant to be run under strict controls. In what business are you set the task of writing code in exam conditions without being able to use the internet or discuss ideas with others?

    The other major issue is that since GCSE ICT was removed as an option a lot of schools either made CompSci compulsory, or failed to see it as a subject that required students to be strong on problem solving, logical thinking and have half-decent maths skills. In my last school we had a number of students who could barely write in English, so the idea of trying to teach them to code was a complete waste of time. And as it's all a results game these days, there are a large amount of students who will never achieve the results projected for them, and the pressure upon teachers to some how deliver these results is immense - which leads to students being 'coached' through the NEA, and undoubtedly students receive far much more support than they should do in some schools.

    Someone else asked why the NEA isn't timetabled for all students to take it at the same time - that would be a logistical nightmare. Not all schools have the same computer facilities, and how would you organise the 20 hours? Would it be twenty 1 hour exams, or five 4 hour exams, or ten 2 hour exams? What happens if a school's network goes down whilst the exam is taking place? There is no way you could organise something like that across all schools. Trying to organise the NEA as it is is quite often a massive headache for schools - and I know plenty that have actually run it after school so that it's easier to control student log-ins and it doesn't interfere with existing lessons.

    The entire CompSci GCSE needs to be re-thought, and there needs to be a re-introduction of an ICT qualification that counts to the results tables. It needs to provide practical experience to students, but in a way that encourages them to improve their skills and develop new ones. It should help to inspire them, and I don't believe the current GCSE does this in any way.

    1. MrT

      Re: A teacher's viewpoint

      Up to a couple of years ago, I was able to add extra practical skills units to the old BTEC I&CT course. Then the government and DfE under Gove got all down about such courses, so my ICT Techs course bit the dust. The additional units were removed from the course, leaving it as if they'd never existed.

      I'd a room set up with old PCs to strip and rebuild, Linux, Windows, printers, scanners, networking kit and so on. Each student had to put in a lot of hours plus an extra exam that included a lot of the extra knowledge I've just seen being covered on a CompSci revision class.

      As a bonus for doing all that extra, I used to buy them each a toolkit (total less than £30) which they could customise using our laser cutter, set to low power 'etch' strength. It was given 2 hours a week and an additional GCSE equivalency. It wasn't an easy option by any means.

      1. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        Re: A teacher's viewpoint

        This is what annoys me the most - ICT and CompSci are never 'easy options', but are done such a disservice by people who simply do not understand what they entail. For all the belief that the current generation are 'digital natives', the vast majority of them have none of the ICT or CompSci skills that businesses *actually* need

    2. kjw

      Re: A teacher's viewpoint

      (NEA = Non-exam assessment)

      Thanks for an insightful view from the coalface.

      Do you think there are any incremental tweaks that can substantially improve GCSE computing?

      In your experience is GCSE computing inspiring students? Is it putting any of them off computing at year 9 or 11?

      In terms of "without being able to use the internet", I don't think there's a magic solution for the gap between assessment of an individual vs preparing them for working in groups for a typical industrial setting?

      Do you think A level computing is useful? In my era we were advised against many subjects if you were planning to go onto a degree in them, presumably because the teaching for more specialist subjects was better at university level.

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