Let this be a timely reminder not to set your status on facebook to "Forgot to bring the bins in last night"
Surveillance law slip-up in sight for staff stalking citizens on socials
Authorities need to have rules in place to ensure that lawful social media snooping doesn’t slip into covert ops, the UK’s chief surveillance commissioner has said. In his 2016-17 annual report (PDF), published today, the commissioner Lord Igor Judge set out the state of surveillance in the country. It showed that, during the …
COMMENTS
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Thursday 21st December 2017 10:31 GMT djstardust
Saying that .....
If it heps identify dole scroungers on disability benefit who go snowboarding whilst being unable to walk then I'm all for it.
If these people are stupid enough to post their antics publicly then they get what's coming to them.
P.S. The clue in in the name ..... "social" networking.
I know in the past that councils and DHSS have spied on people physically before, this just makes their work easier.
There are many out there who try to pull a fast one for their own benefit whilst others lose out. Anything that can be done to clamp down on this is welcome.
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Thursday 21st December 2017 10:39 GMT Anonymous Coward
Re: Saying that .....
I agree but don't be fooled by the government mantra supported by the press about benefit cheats, it's not that big of a problem that's why they make a big deal when on the very few and far between occasions they catch one. The problem the government has is with the working families that have to claim benefits because they don't get paid enough and that's who they target with cuts.
On the other hand the councils will not just use this for that, it's not really their job anyway, that falls to the DWP. The councils will use this to enable them to fine people and snoop on their own employees for whatever reason is required.
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Thursday 21st December 2017 15:25 GMT Alan Brown
Re: Saying that .....
"that's why they make a big deal when on the very few and far between occasions they catch one."
New Zealand rolled out a system which linked up banks, the inland revenue and the welfare departments to try and catch benefit cheats. It cost $200million to rollout.
The claim was that it would save $500 million per year.
The reality was that it found about $75 miillion in fraud and 4 out of 5 cases were committed by welfare department staff.
It also found that around $500million in benefit entitlements were NOT being claimed.
NZ and UK society are similar (even the xenophobia is similar) and I wouldn't be at all surprised to find the same thing happening here.
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Thursday 21st December 2017 11:24 GMT Suburban Inmate
Re: Saying that .....
The odd benefit fiddler is nothing compared to the harm of having almost any government employed/contracted numpty permitted to go trawling people's online business on the flimsiest of excuses.
Remember when the regime had to call privacy invasions "anti terrorism" to foist more snooping on us?
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Thursday 21st December 2017 15:21 GMT Alan Brown
Re: Saying that .....
"dole scroungers on disability benefit who go snowboarding whilst being unable to walk"
The number of these that exist is statistically so small as to be nonexistent - time and again the costs of the people hired to investigate such claims (or drug use amongst beneficiaries) has been proven to be higher than the money saved in detecting them.
There are something like 20,000 people investigating what may be as much as £500 million in benefit fraud, yet only 1500 investigating £70 billion in tax fraud/tax evasion. What does that tell you about priorities?
And for what it's worth the entire disabilities and unemployment budget is about £10billion (less than 5% of the budget), whilst pensions account for more than 2/3 (68%) as a direct cost, with pensioner perks (fuel allowance, council housing, free travel, etc) accounting for another 5-7% (yes, more than the unemployment/disability benefits in pensioner perks/vote bribes)
Baby boomers are only just starting to retire. The peak will be in another 5-7 years and by 2025 pensions are likely to account for 80% of the country's budget. Remind me how going after a few benefit cheats is going to make this sustainable?
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Friday 22nd December 2017 09:41 GMT Anonymous Coward
Re: Saying that .....
Funny you saying that. On our local employers website exists a section that lauds over the discovery and prosecution of benefit cheats. Being that this is a very affluent area, there seems to be a lot of them. In less salubrious areas I cant see how statistically more people aren't trying it.
Seems to me that there ARE far more benefit cheats that you would seem to believe.
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Thursday 21st December 2017 10:42 GMT Anonymous Coward
I'll give you an example.
Lets say the council want to cut staff but need to do it without paying redundancy. What they would do is trawl social media to find something they could use to sack a member of staff. What that may be could be something innocuous that can be twisted to give another meaning.
Still think it's only criminals that need to fear this?
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Thursday 21st December 2017 11:16 GMT Teiwaz
Only yourself to blame.
If you've got nothing to hide you've got nothing to fear. Only criminals need fear these sensible measures.
I'm fairly certain you are being ironic, but indicate 'joke' with icon; we've had more than enough nutters of late posting nonsense that people now assume you say what you mean, even if you don't mean what you say.
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Thursday 21st December 2017 17:51 GMT Chris King
"Vote local council for another glorious decade of total law enforcement"
No doubt they'll also have a hotline so people can report the stuff the Voter Colonel didn't spot...
"Be a Local Council Informer. Betray Your Family & Friends. Fabulous Prizes to be Won"
(Oh, and have a virtual pint for the Red Dwarf reference !)
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Thursday 21st December 2017 14:07 GMT handleoclast
@unwanted numpty
If you've got nothing to hide you've got nothing to fear. Only criminals need fear these sensible measures.
Time to put your money where your mouth is. Drop your own dox. With proof. Let us all know who you are in real life, with a way of proving the entity posting as unwarranted triumpahlism is indeed that real life person.
After all, you have nothing to hide, right?
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Thursday 21st December 2017 10:43 GMT Sherminator
Checks and balances are required
I'm all for investigations where necesary, however, half of the ass clowns in most councils are not trained to operate a keyboard properly, nevermind carry out a lawful surveillance job.
Get the people trained and authorised to do only what is required and no more, there's enough horror stories of councils using RIPA to spy on people over school catchment area validity..... is this what we want our council tax spent on?
I can't get my bins emptied half the time and I can't remember the last time I actually saw a Police Officer.
Me thinks Councils are not controlled well enough....
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Thursday 21st December 2017 11:35 GMT Anonymous Coward
Re: Checks and balances are required
Sherminator wrote:
"Get the people trained and authorised to do only what is required and no more, there's enough horror stories of councils using RIPA to spy on people over school catchment area validity..... is this what we want our council tax spent on?
I can't get my bins emptied half the time and I can't remember the last time I actually saw a Police Officer.
Me thinks Councils are not controlled well enough...."
After recent experience I can concur wholeheartedly with that sentiment. I have no SM accounts, however, my wife (read only) children & grandchildren do (despite my best efforts).
We were waiting the result of a re-assessment for help with (our) disability needs. Assessment done then months of delays until finally they came up with a six year old photo showing me standing, sticks hidden behind my back with part of the ferrel showing beside my foot. They also found another (grainy) photo showing me in uniform from 40 years ago. Sufficient they said to prove I no longer need help. When argued they quoted the upload dates as proof! The photo's were from my grandchildrens' accounts.
Whilst I understand the opportunity the public domain provides my experience is that they only search for what they need to prove the answer they want and invariably truth has SFA to do with it.
I have dealt with many agents of local and national government and all I can say is that for the majority of them .... erm erm... nope, nothing printable.
Anon as this is hands of solicitor
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Friday 22nd December 2017 21:45 GMT Down not across
Re: Simply follow sensible advice.
Never use your real name on the net!
Of course, none of El Reg's esteemed readership would ever dream of doing anything nefarious, but it pays to be cautious.
I suspect most of the commentards know and do that.
The problem is that there are family and/or friends etc and no appreciable control on what they do. Hence even if you completely abstain from social media, chances are others are putting you out there whether you like it or not.
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Thursday 21st December 2017 12:53 GMT SVV
A number of options
1) Donb't use social media, as it's dumb, and even using a pseudonym won't really protect you in the case of an investigation as other people in your network won't be using one and they'll be able to track you down pretty easily with this information and the dumb selfies you post. Furthermore, if they transfer most of their efforts into investigating via social media, you'll be off their radar anyway.
2) When going on a foreign holiday whilst claiming, take photos in the couple of weeks beforehand of local medical centres, office blocks, etc in varying weather conditions. Then during your holiday you can check the weather forecast back home and post suitable entries on your account about the hospital appointment, job interview, etc you "had" there that day.
3) Claim honestly and obey all the rules when claiming benefits. This option will not get you into trouble. I am in no way recommending that anybody does anything other than this.
4) Point out in posts on the web that having a job spying on your own citizens to a creepy degree used to be reviled when it was done in countries like East Germany. Funny how it's become government policy in the UK 30 years later, isan't it? They used to say that they were just "protecting the rule of law" and "on the side of the majority" too.
5) If your local council (like mine) sets up a "fraud hotline" website, for curtain twitchers to report people they don't like the look of anonymously as "suspicious", make good use of it.They only have limited staff resources.
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Saturday 23rd December 2017 04:34 GMT Anonymous Coward
If you've done nothing wrong ..
If you've done nothing wrong then you've got nothing to hide ..