back to article HMS Queen Elizabeth has sprung a leak and everyone's all a-tizzy

New British aircraft carrier HMS Queen Elizabeth has sprung a leak. The warship takes on around 200 litres of water per hour thanks to a faulty propeller shaft gland packing, according to reports. The packing in question, according to The Sun, which broke the news and knocked up a graphic illustrating the problem, was rapidly …

  1. seven of five
    Joke

    "With no planes to fly off her, we might as well sink her"?

    A natural reef will make you popular with the greens.

    1. Pen-y-gors

      Re: "With no planes to fly off her, we might as well sink her"?

      Just make sure you remove any potential pollutants first, like aircraft fuel - no, wait, they won't have any on board will they?

    2. Bill M

      Re: "With no planes to fly off her, we might as well sink her"?

      Surely an artificial reef.

      Don't think sunken aircraft carrier reefs occur naturally.

      1. 404

        Re: "With no planes to fly off her, we might as well sink her"?

        Not strictly true - there a volcano islands being formed fairly regularly that you could land planes on, that will sink back into the sea at some point and become reefs.

        Just saying...

      2. cd
        Pirate

        Re: "With no planes to fly off her, we might as well sink her"?

        They will when Capita starts building them.

      3. Kiwi
        Coat

        Re: "With no planes to fly off her, we might as well sink her"?

        Surely an artificial reef.

        Don't think sunken aircraft carrier reefs occur naturally.

        Enough defects like leaking shaft seals and they just might occur as a natural result...

        (You'd need significant seal failures, all pumps out, crew not able to make a bucket line (maybe no one thought to put buckets in, modern pumps being so good'n'all), watertight doors/hatches unable to be closed (or not sealing enough), and for some reason no ability to tow her back to port - at 200L/hr it'd take a very long time to even get a noticeable lowering in the waterline!)

    3. John Smith 19 Gold badge
      FAIL

      Billions Above Estimate never disappoint, do they?

      Yes sea trials are to find problems.

      But, y'know, with £3.5 Bn on this tub you'd think they'd managed to get the basics right.

      Especially anything whose repair instructions start "First put ship in dry dock"

      Because the ship is f**king huge.

    4. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: "With no planes to fly off her, we might as well sink her"?

      Might as well make sure she can float before putting expensive airplanes in it.

  2. Pen-y-gors

    Minor problem

    ...compared with the lack of aircraft, which means they could leave her in permanent dry-dock without impacting her operational capability.

    I'd say more, but after reading the article I feel the need for a wee.

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: Minor problem

      This is the fault that is "leaked" to the press. We wont hear about the real snags that were found.

      1. Anonymous Coward
        WTF?

        Re: Minor problem

        Isn't it under warranty? If I bought a dingy and it leaked, I would expect the shop I bought it off to fix it for free. Doesn't it work the same way if you spend £3.5 billion?

        1. Matt Hawkins
          Happy

          Re: Minor problem

          It works the same. It will be rectified in accordance with the contract placed on the supplier.

          1. Anonymous Coward
            Anonymous Coward

            Re: Minor problem

            Probs only came with a 30'000 mile warranty

      2. Matt Hawkins

        Re: Minor problem

        All ships/cars/planes have mechanical issues. "Snags" aren't news. But then The Sun isn't a newspaper so no surprise there!

      3. Tom Paine

        Re: Minor problem

        What, like we didn't hear about the Type 45 shutting down in warm weather?

    2. Voland's right hand Silver badge

      Re: Minor problem

      It can still be used a helicopter carrier. UK still has some left of those.

      It is one hell of an expensive helicopter carrier. The most expensive one in the world in fact.

      This is especially when compared to what that other countries which used to operate Harriers and now are in line for the F32B have bought for a fraction of that money: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spanish_ship_Juan_Carlos_I_(L61)

      In fact, if you look at it, UK could have built ~ 8? ships of the same class for the same amount of money. ~1.5 more "power projection" bang for the same buck even before we take the landing craft launch capability into account. Unfortunately, someone in the Admiralty probably had an issue with the size of his anatomy and needed to order something BIG to prove himself. As a result the really simple idea that "If you build an aircraft carrier that big you might as well order proper planes, not VTOLs for it" did not compute.

      1. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        Re: Minor problem

        meanwhile HMS Ocean which is a DEDICATED helicopter carrier and supports the marines and can actually come alongside in Devonport (home of the marines) returns home from her final deployment to be paid off. We'll soon have marines with NO marine capability!!!!!

        http://www.plymouthherald.co.uk/news/plymouth-news/hms-ocean-coming-home-christmas-942687

        You really couldn't make this shit up!

    3. IsJustabloke
      Facepalm

      Re: Minor problem

      "compared with the lack of [FIXED WING] aircraft"

      She has choppers aboard so saying she has no aircraft is clearly wrong.

  3. A Non e-mouse Silver badge
    WTF?

    Though defence commentators are, rather predictably, shouting about this being a non-story – and to a point it is an expected defect – it is very much a matter of public concern

    Bollocks. It's a new ship, of new design, and there are some snags and the make will fix them. As the El Reg article says, isn't this the point of things like sea trials? TBH - I'd be very suspicious if there weren't any snags.

    And why did El Reg spend most of the article being all calm, and then throw in that provocative statement. I expected better of El Reg.

    1. Pen-y-gors

      I expected better of El Reg.

      Nah, pure El Reg-ery. You want boring, straight, factual and only slightly-biased reporting, go to the Beeb.

      1. werdsmith Silver badge

        The beeb has gone all sh*t-stirry about it quoting their own "defence correspondent" saying this is "highly embarassing for the Royal Navy".

        I see it as testing the ship to find any faults and fixing them before it goes operational.

        1. Anonymous Coward
          Anonymous Coward

          I see it as testing the ship to find any faults and fixing them before it goes operational.

          Indeed. This is the first one of these that they've built - it's not like they had a couple of Queen Liz 2 prototypes under their belts before they got cracking on this particular vessel.

        2. Terry 6 Silver badge

          It seems to be a thing with the Beeb recently. The News web site particularity. Lots of stories about nothing, or headlines focussed on a tiny, attention catching detail of a bigger story. Or massive exaggeration to the point if being fake news. One example of such. There was a headteachers' petition to the govt. recently. A genuine news story, a small deputation took it to no. 10. According to the Beeb headline at the time though headteachers were "marching on Downing St."

          1. Tom Paine

            This story's a good example of the dumbing down on BBC News Online - not that they ran it, in this particular case, but because they picked up a non-starters because the tabloid sewer press both broke and framed the story the previous day. Ten years ago they would be reporting the fact that there was a screamsheet ruckus about it; now, the news agenda is set by the Mail.

            There's been a stair-step down in quality in the last few months due to some management change or other - I forget the details - it was in Private Eye IIRC.

            1. Anonymous Coward
              Anonymous Coward

              BBC News Dumbing Down

              I think the BBC News has been dumbing down for quite a few years, especially on the Science and Technology front. My view is that the BBC source their newsreaders from classically educated graduates that generally have poor understanding of mathematics and science. Even in the business sections of the BBC some of the statistics and charts that they post would have failed O level maths/physics exams for being unclear and in many cases, incorrect. There are some exceptions but in general, the BBC is definitely heading down the sensationalist news road. If things don't improve, the BBC will be no better than the Sun and the Daily Mail. So sad.

              1. Anonymous Coward
                Anonymous Coward

                Re: BBC News Dumbing Down

                Half the time their grammar is appalling. The other half they are trying to be funny with some witless pun. To be fair the news is a joke now if Trump and Brexit are any guide.

                Even Sky News is doing better than the Beeb.

        3. Tom Paine

          I love the BBC, and those with strong ideological axes to grind (on various sides - more than two) who rave about bias annoy and bore me.

          But I'm embarrassed when I see the 10 o'clock news once a week round my in-laws (long story. Also I have no telly or time.) Radio 4 is the last real, srs, news / current affairs channel left.

          1. PNGuinn
            Big Brother

            Radio 4 is the last real, srs, news / current affairs channel left.

            Radio 4 WAS the last real, srs, news / current affairs channel left, quite a time ago now..

            FIFY.

            Even the archers is a dumbed town bit of pc carp these days (compared to a few years ago).

            Confession: I was working on my own and had radio 4 on. I was not near the set and left it on when TA came on. Father, I have sinned ....

      2. Fred Dibnah

        You really have to be kidding.

    2. This post has been deleted by its author

    3. rh587

      TBH - I'd be very suspicious if there weren't any snags.

      If they don't break something, they're not pushing it hard enough. Something is going to break on trials for the name-ship of a new class. QE is her own prototype.

    4. Steve Evans

      The Beeb are obviously having a slow news day too and have dragged the non-story out all day.

      Including interviewing a retired submarine captain... And even having found a man who should have a mortal terror of a leaky boat, even he was pretty "meh".

      Back of the envelope calculations tell me that at only 200 litres an hour, with no pumps running, and all water-tight doors (of which there are many) left wide open, she'd still be floating into the new year!

      (Assuming she she didn't just fill up on one side and tip over of course).

  4. macjules
    Meh

    "HMS Queen Elizabeth has sprung a leak and everyone's all a-tizzy"

    Well, only The Sun it would appear, according to Reuters.

    Having been a 'from new' Range Rover owner (and never again I might add) I know that the first thing you do is take the vehicle out for a road test and then promptly dropout it back to the showroom with a list of defects that need fixing.

  5. wolfetone Silver badge

    It'd probably sink if an F-35 ever managed to land on it.

    This considers the scenario of such a plane ever being built to fly in the first place.

  6. Prst. V.Jeltz Silver badge

    Big Liz cost the taxpayer £3.5bn to build

    Well , thats less than ONE MONTHs national debt interest payment. If we hadnt let ourselves get 1.7 trillion in debt , we could have a new carrier every month, or maybe some more doctors and nurses.

    1. John Robson Silver badge

      Or we could promise that £3.5b to *all* of the things that cost that much...

      1. Aladdin Sane
        Trollface

        That's 10 weeks of Brexit savings.

        1. Ian Johnston Silver badge

          "That's 10 weeks of Brexit savings."

          Maybe, but that money is all going to the NHS. Boris said so.

          1. wallaby

            "Boris said so."

            if he said so it must be right.....

            right ...??

            1. Adrian 4

              Or 1/20th of brexit exit payment (the government bit, not the industry costs)

            2. Anonymous Coward
              Anonymous Coward

              I will bet £3.5 Billion that Boris won't use the NHS.

    2. Tom Paine

      But we wouldn't be able to afford it, because without money from gilts etc over the last 150 years we'd have the economy of Bulgaria today.

      (That doesn't mean the global capital markets should be treated as a source of endless free money, of course.)

    3. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      > "Well , thats less than ONE MONTHs national debt interest payment."

      LoL National finances aren't like your house finances.

      1. Prst. V.Jeltz Silver badge

        "LoL National finances aren't like your house finances.

        I would imagine there are similarities , like borrowing to avoid a small bit of pain eventually accumulates into a major headcache that would have been easier to deal with a bite at a time as it came up.

        That wouldnt keep you elected though I guess.

  7. Hans Neeson-Bumpsadese Silver badge

    God bless her...

    ...and all who bail in her.

    1. I ain't Spartacus Gold badge
      Happy

      Re: God bless her...

      One person could bail this leak with a teaspoon.

      Actually make that a cup. It's 0.06 L/sec, so you'd have to move your arms really fast with a teaspoon...

      1. This post has been deleted by its author

      2. Mike Moyle

        Re: God bless her...

        It's not so much the size of the leak; it's carrying the [teaspoon|bucket] up seven or eight decks from the bilge to dump overboard that takes the bulk of the time!

        1. Stoneshop
          Pirate

          Re: God bless her...

          It's not so much the size of the leak; it's carrying the [teaspoon|bucket] up seven or eight decks from the bilge to dump overboard that takes the bulk of the time!

          You then order some junior deckhand to take that bucket topside and dump its contents overboard, while leaving another, empty, bucket down in the bilge for the Master Leakscooper to fill. If one can't keep up that way you line up a bucket brigade.

          1. Tom Paine

            Re: God bless her...

            If one can't keep up that way you line up a bucket brigade.

            Imagine how much money an Able Seaman Third Class could make if he smuggled a camera in and sold that pic to the tabloids!

        2. TheRealRoland
          Flame

          Re: God bless her...

          > it's carrying the [teaspoon|bucket] up seven or eight decks from the bilge to dump overboard that takes the bulk of the time!

          Just drill a hole in the hull nearby and use a hose to pump the water out? Shouldn't be that difficult.

          Or use a commercial cargo ship.

          Too soon?

          1. Prst. V.Jeltz Silver badge

            Re: God bless her...

            "Just drill a hole in the hull nearby and use a hose to pump the water out? Shouldn't be that difficult."

            That'll only work if you clearly label the hole "OUT"

          2. Cuddles

            Re: God bless her...

            "Just drill a hole in the hull nearby and use a hose to pump the water out?"

            Why bother drilling, there's a hole right there already!

            1. I ain't Spartacus Gold badge
              Happy

              Re: God bless her...

              Good point! Rather than messing round bailing, why not just cut out the middleman. Employ a cabin boy to stick his finger in the hole - and stop the water coming into the boat in the first place.

              Problem solved! That still leaves his other hand free to do something useful, like putting oil on whatever bits of the engine he can reach - and he can still entertain the crew by singing for them, or something.

              1. Kiwi
                Coat

                Re: God bless her...

                Employ a cabin boy to stick his finger in the hole - and stop the water coming into the boat in the first place.

                I thought cabin boys were for the other way round?

        3. I ain't Spartacus Gold badge
          Happy

          Re: God bless her...

          I considered the stairs issue. You simply use a spoon with a longer than normal handle...

      3. John Robson Silver badge

        Re: God bless her...

        > One person could bail this leak with a teaspoon.

        > Actually make that a cup. It's 0.06 L/sec, so you'd have to move your arms really fast with a teaspoon...

        Depends how many decks you need to run up each time to tip the bucket of water back into the sea...

  8. Anonymous Coward
    Holmes

    Meh

    Basically, they are saying that there's a very minor problem with a newly built thing. So fucking what? I'm nowhere near 100% sold on the new ships, particularly the fact that they were designed to solely operate one particular type of unproven warplane. But this is the sort of story that's worthy of the shit-rag it comes from.

    1. Peter2 Silver badge

      Re: Meh

      But it can be made a big story that all self respecting people from centre to right wing will point at laugh and say "That's why acceptance trials exist?!" while commenting on the stupidity of people who think that dillegently finding problems while the manufacturers pay to fix them is some kind of humiliation, rather than not spotting them until taxpayer plc is responsible for rectifying the fault. Which could be described as a humiliation.

      The Sun might have this somewhere on their frontpage, but normally looking without actually using CTRL-F I can't find it within about a minute of looking. The BBC has ran it as the lead story in the UK, widely publicised it and then opened one of their increasinly rare "Have your Say!" forums on it.

      Meanwhile, other news is buried under the noise that this generates. Nothing to see here, move along citizen.

      So what's being buried today? I'm guessing it's that the Lib Debs are being fined by the electoral comission for just shy of the maximum penalties for breaches of the finances rules in the late referendum. That's something the BBC would prefer to not have to report because it reflects badly on people they support, and their editorial policy on this particular matter is embarassingly transparrent.

      Your view may differ.

      1. Tom Paine

        Re: Meh

        Correct. They may. And in this case, they do.

  9. samuri

    Just move all the heavy stuff to the front of the ship, the back lifts out of the water, repair it and then move all the stuff back. I feel disappointed I have to point this out to the boat builders.

    1. This post has been deleted by its author

      1. Hans Neeson-Bumpsadese Silver badge

        As this was exactly how I dealt with the problem of making some welds on the bottom of the counter of a (shortish) narrowboat

        Before you commenced work, did you say to those on board "hang on a minute lads, I've got a great idea..."

        1. 404

          No - more like 'here, hold my beer..'

        2. Anonymous Coward
          Anonymous Coward

          Before you commenced work, did you say to those on board "hang on a minute lads, I've got a great idea..."

          I think his actual words were: "My lord, I have a cunning plan."

        3. jonnyu1

          Were they only supposed to blow the bl**dy seal off?

          1. Roj Blake Silver badge

            Re: Were they only supposed to blow the bl**dy seal off?

            That would leave one very happy seal.

  10. Salestard

    With Big And expensive at the helm...

    ...it's a marvel the bloody thing even floats, let along floats long enough for water ingress to be considered an issue.

    As for the Beeb lathering itself up with "highly embarrassing for the Royal Navy";

    a) as if having an aircraft carrier without any aircraft wasn't embarrassing enough

    and

    b) someone hasn't paid much attention to the history of the floating department of our armed forces. I'd go out on a limb here and suggest that a leaky propshaft on a new boat is less embarrassing than, say, someone driving a nuclear sub into the Porridge Isles. https://www.reuters.com/article/us-britain-nuclear-submarine/uk-nuclear-submarine-runs-aground-off-scotland-idUSTRE69L2FJ20101022

  11. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    Dry Dock

    I don't know the specifics of this carrier but a spell in dry dock should not be required for a warship. The seal is meant to allow the prop shaft to rotate without excessive volumes of water coming in. They often leak a bit. You can squirt in extra grease to stop leaks. If that doesn't work you can seal the stationary shaft with an emergency inflatable collar then dismantle and repair the rotating water seal before deflating the emergency collar and resuming navigation.

    1. Prst. V.Jeltz Silver badge

      Re: Dry Dock

      If it was up to me (and nothing ever is) I'd wait until a few more things cropped up to justify dry dock. Water ingress at the speed of a tap is less than negligible.

      1. Steve the Cynic

        Re: Dry Dock

        Water ingress at the speed of a tap is less than negligible.

        Pretty much. A while back, I was reading about the antics of the Royal Navy in the Med in WW2, and there was the tale of a cruiser that took some sort of rather meh battle damage, and was left with the pumps throwing 70 tons of water an hour overboard to keep up. That is, 70 thousand litres an hour, or more than 200 times the size of this leak, but on a rather smaller ship.

        They continued operations and got it fixed afterwards.

        1. graeme leggett Silver badge

          Re: Dry Dock

          In the Med in 1941 HMS Ark Royal remained afloat for 12 hours with a 130ft long hole in the hull.

          HMS Uganda, a light cruiser, took on 1300 tons after being hit by German Fritz X guided bomb off Salerno in 1943. It survived and crossed the Atlantic on one propeller to reach a suitable dock for repairs. Thereafter transferred to Canadian navy it served until mid 50s.

        2. Pedigree-Pete
          Pirate

          Re: Dry Dock

          @Steve the Cynic.

          "They continued operations and got it fixed afterwards."

          C'est la guerre! PP

      2. N2

        Re: Dry Dock

        Water ingress at the speed of a tap is less than negligible.

        Agreed,

        So long as you can pump it out quicker than it comes in!

  12. jason 7

    Going by size of ship to water ingress...

    ...it's more of a 'slight seepage' really.

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: Going by size of ship to water ingress...

      It's very slight seepage. A bucket of water every 3 minutes. Absolutely nothing in the scheme of things.

      The old HMS Ark Royal, (the one decommissioned in 1979) now that was a leaky ship. It leaked so badly due to rust, that from time to time they had to fill a hull section with concrete to keep the water out and hold the rust together.

  13. SkippyBing

    Fixing without dry docking

    It could well be possible to fix without dry docking. It may be a case of adjusting from the inboard end, depending on what kind of gland they're using either repacking it or something a bit more technical. Alternatively when one of the last Type 42s needed some work done below the waterline they made a compartment that sealed up against the section of hull and pumped the water out. Quicker than dry docking and means the rest of the ship's systems can work as normal.

    But seriously, if the press are going to start reporting every incident this small they're going to be needing a lot more pages.

    1. small and stupid

      Re: Fixing without dry docking

      Yes. There will be a guarantee claims list hundreds of items long and the builder and/or equipment makers will be dutifully rectifying / bullshitting their way out of them as we speak.

    2. Naselus

      Re: Fixing without dry docking

      "But seriously, if the press are going to start reporting every incident this small they're going to be needing a lot more pages."

      The last week before Christmas is notoriously a slow news week. This story probably narrowly beat out a kitten getting rescued from a chimney in Northwich as the main line items for the day.

  14. SkippyBing

    'If there are problems with the new aircraft carriers, which are set to become Britain’s flagships for the next half-century or more, it is right and proper that the public knows about them'

    The problem with that approach is that it makes any problem with them also known to any potential future adversary. OSINT works both ways.

  15. jjackson42

    Leaking Stern Gland????

    It's obviously a VERY slow news day!

    A ship has a leaking stern gland. The builders are going to adjust it, under guarantee.

    ZZZzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz.............

    1. Dave Watts

      Re: Leaking Stern Gland????

      Unless <starts_rumour> the problem is an unbalanced prop shaft vibrating in the stern gland causing the leak (experience from a much smaller vessel) that can be rather more expensive </starts_rumour>

  16. Christoph

    Aren't those fighters going to get a bit dated?

    "new aircraft carriers, which are set to become Britain’s flagships for the next half-century or more"

    "flight trials with the new F-35B fighters that will fly from her during her British service life. "

    Does anyone know of any first-class military aircraft which have remained operational and first-class for over half a century?

    1. Aladdin Sane

      Re: Aren't those fighters going to get a bit dated?

      Boeing B-52. Tupolev Tu-95 Bear. Lockheed C-130 Hercules. Boeing CH-47 Chinook. Lockheed U-2.

      F-15 eagles have been in service for 40 years and will be around into the 2030s. Panavia Tornados entered service in 1979 and are expected to be in use with the Luftwaffe into the 2030s as well. Same applies to the F-16 Falcon.

    2. J. Cook Silver badge
      Boffin

      Re: Aren't those fighters going to get a bit dated?

      Um...

      Well, the US has a couple:

      B-52: in service since 1955

      F-4 Phantom/Phantom II: In service from 1960, finally retired by US in 2016 (other nations are still flying them)

      that's off the top of my head, with a little help from wikipedia. I'm sure the some of the propeller heads around here can rattle off a few more.

      1. Paul Kinsler

        Re: B-52: in service since 1955

        And isn't NASA still still flying a Canberra or three?

        edit: http://www.bbc.com/future/story/20160309-why-nasa-still-flies-an-old-british-bomber-design

      2. 's water music

        Re: Aren't those fighters going to get a bit dated?

        I'm sure the some of the propeller heads around here can rattle off a few more

        I see what you did there

        1. Aladdin Sane

          Re: propeller heads

          Just a little bit of history repeating.

    3. Baldrickk

      Re: Aren't those fighters going to get a bit dated?

      The Harrier is still in service, albeit only with the US Marines, 50 years after introduction.

      Still think we should have kept ours until we actually receive the replacements.

      1. Peter2 Silver badge

        Re: Aren't those fighters going to get a bit dated?

        50 years, pfft.

        I raise you this, introduced to service 77 years ago and still flown by active service fighter pilots.

        https://www.raf.mod.uk/bbmf/theaircraft/spitfirep7350.cfm

        1. Salestard

          Re: Aren't those fighters going to get a bit dated?

          Longest British frontline service award probably goes to the Shackleton, which ultimately had it's roots in the Manchester, redesigned as the Lancaster, which became the Lincoln, which became the Shack. 1939 - 1991 for the full evolution of the design, last iteration going on for 40 years.

          In boat terms, the QE class Battleships had probably the longest innings - Warspite was in service for 43 years. Similar service lengths from the Revenge class too.

    4. Naselus

      Re: Aren't those fighters going to get a bit dated?

      50 years is a pretty standard life span for both a boat and a jet fighter.

      1. JLV

        Re: Aren't those fighters going to get a bit dated?

        >50 years is a pretty standard life span for both a boat and a jet fighter

        But those need not dovetail perfectly

        Launched in 77, the Nimitz would have barely missed getting the Navy F4, getting F14s instead. Then F18s. And who knows, later even F35s???

        This whole fiasco with the lack of catapults seems rather similar to buying an all-in-one PC where the original parts can't be switched, are expensive and do not even provide very good performance to start with.

    5. JLV
      Trollface

      Re: Aren't those fighters going to get a bit dated?

      >remained

      both in terms of operational and first class remained seems misplaced wrt F35s.

      or maybe it can be fixed thus:

      military aircraft industrial welfare project which have remained operational and first-class for over half a century

      in which case one would hope, but that might yet be mistaken optimism, that the F35's capabilities budgetary vacuuming would lessen rather sooner than over 50 yrs.

      B52s aside, the OP has a point - a warship like this might be expected to field several generations of aircraft , not be stuck with1

    6. Allan George Dyer
      Pint

      Re: Aren't those fighters going to get a bit dated?

      Just bringing the UK's air power in-line with sea power (oldest commissioned warship, HMS Victory, 258 years old) and land power (Royal Company of Archers, 195 years).

      1. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        Re: Aren't those fighters going to get a bit dated?

        Archers, 195 years? Pfft. Yeoman of the Guard - since 1485

      2. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        Re: Aren't those fighters going to get a bit dated?

        The Royal Artillery is 301 years and counting.

  17. Ugotta B. Kiddingme
    Joke

    easy solution?

    "It is vanishingly unlikely that a leaky gland seriously affected the carrier’s ability to operate (we encourage older readers not to draw comparisons with their personal situations)."

    MOD Procurement specialist on phone: "Yes, I'd like to order several boxes of adult nappies, please. Size? Well, they're for 'Big Liz' so, I'd say extra extra EXTRA large..."

  18. Bloodbeastterror

    "shaft gland packing"

    Eeh, that sounds reet disgusting...

    1. viscount

      Re: "shaft gland packing"

      Is it the HMS Double Entendre?

      1. Naselus

        Re: "shaft gland packing"

        There is something of a touch of the Carry On about the whole thing, isn't there? First, an aircraft carrier with no aircraft, and now I can just imagine Kenneth Williams talking about how he needs to go and pack Big Liz's shaft to solve her leaky glands.

        1. viscount

          Re: "shaft gland packing"

          More like the Navy Lark with Leslie Philips:

          https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Navy_Lark

  19. iRadiate

    Isn't that the whole point of sea trials?

    Is this really as embarrassing as everyone makes out?

    1. Peter2 Silver badge

      Re: Isn't that the whole point of sea trials?

      Yes, that's the point of sea trials.

      The purpose of the story is to bury other news. Working as well, isin't it?

  20. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    200 ltrs per hour

    As there are no aircraft on board I expect the 679 crew will have plenty of spare time to sit around and drink tea and will likely produce nearly as much waste liquid as seeps in through the gland.

    Good luck to HMS Penguin. I wonder if the Indian Navy Sea Harriers (retired last year) are still intact.? They might not be able to fly but we could park them on the flight deck to stop the empty expanse looking so bloody silly.

    1. davemcwish

      Re: Plenty of spare time to sit around and drink tea

      @EastFinchleyite I'd like to think they'll do something meaningful in the next 3 years, prior to operational capability.

      1. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        Something meaningful..

        Indeed, so would I.

        Reminds me somewhat of a passage from Spike Milligan's first volume of army memoirs. He was training in the artillery near Bexhill but they had no ammunition to let off. The solution was for the gun crew to shout "BANG!" instead.

        I suppose our men in the navy could stand on the flight deck and shout "WHOOSH!".

        Our foes must be quaking.

        1. Tigra 07
          Coat

          Re: Something meaningful..

          We could do what the Norks do and use inflatables that look like planes on the deck?

          The MOD just needs to announce they found £20 Billion down the sofa first...

        2. Kiwi
          Coat

          Re: Something meaningful..

          Our foes must be quaking.

          Oh trust me, they are.

          Of course, it's from laughter, but at least something the UK has done has them shaking in their boots!

      2. PB90210
        Pint

        Re: Plenty of spare time to sit around and drink tea

        "equates to three and a third litres per minute, which in turn is a little bit more than your average kitchen jug"

        Must be thirsty work round at Vulture Central... most domestic kettles are around 1.5l

  21. bigiain

    Be nice if folks were to get real with the "no aircraft" bull as well as the over-hyped leak.

    The ship has only just joined the navy - they will need months to get the ship ready purely as a warship - damage control, weapons system testing, crew training etc.

    Once they've done all that and the ship itself is judged operational, they can then start to work out aircraft handling procedures to certify the ship to handle the various types of helicopter and only then can they start to prepare for certification for F-35 - this is going to take until 2019 - by which time we will have the first operational aircraft - 12 is considered the minimum to defend the Carrier in normal operations.

    1. Lotaresco

      "12 [aircraft] is considered the minimum to defend the Carrier in normal operations"

      Cool, so we'll have an aircraft carrier that can sail to a trouble zone and sit there defending itself. Very useful. A bit like me going into a boxing ring and huddling behind my gloves whimpering "Please don't hit me again."

      What an impressive spectacle this will be.

  22. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    Most interesting story

    This is one of the most interesting stories on this site.

    Interesting that it is a story, that it made it to the site, that people read it. Of the many items on the deficiency list that one of the least important, easiest and cheapest to address, becomes a "news" story is very interesting. If this item made the short list or summary of deficiencies the news story would have been the remarkable, unheard of success of the project so far. So much so that this would truly be a new age of British ship building. f this was was actually one of the most concerning deficiencies, which seems impossible to me i would have no doubt that Britannia is about to once again rules the waves..

    But also interesting is that such a story generates comments, even comments about how interesting a story it is. Well done indeed.

  23. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    Stop Talking It Down

    People should stop talking this down.

    Talking things down is a major cause of their failure.

    That and it is treason!

    We should only allow positive stories about this fantastic state-of-the-art vessel and its capability to "Make Great Britain Great Again!"

    1. Lotaresco

      Re: Stop Talking It Down

      'We should only allow positive stories about this fantastic state-of-the-art vessel and its capability to "Make Great Britain Great Again!"'

      ITYM "Make Britain Grate Again!"

  24. Tigra 07
    Thumb Up

    Looks like they're already adapting her to become a submarine. The MOD cuts are starting to bite.

    Good way to solve the issue of not having planes to go with the carreirs though!

    1. Lotaresco

      "Looks like they're already adapting her to become a submarine. The MOD cuts are starting to bite."

      It's all part of a cunning plan. Up until now HMS Albion and HMS Bulwark have been the two ships intended to sink themselves in action, now we have a third. With hard training and diligence we will have a fleet that can be sunk before the enemy even get a chance to fire a shot.

  25. Lotaresco
    Coat

    Dry dock, refit and...

    ... a renaming ceremony.

    I give you HMS Colander. God bless her and all who sink in her.

  26. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    a leak?!

    and to think they came up with such fancy development, lol:

    "It is August 2025. The United States is mired in a growing short-of-war scenario that involves a series of dangerous crises in Asia-Pacific. Europe is vulnerable. Exhausted and worn down by the years of complex Brexit negotiations, sustained mass, irregular migration from its south, a seemingly endless flow of terrorist attacks, and years of relative economic decline caused by leaders unable or unwilling to take the necessary measures to resolve Europe’s myriad political, economic and social tensions.

    Britain’s 70,000 ton heavy aircraft carrier HMS Queen Elizabeth is sailing off the North Cape of Norway. These are historic waters for the Royal Navy as ‘Big Lizzie’ is not far from where on the late afternoon of 26th December 1943, in the Arctic twilight, the British battleship HMS Duke of York sank the German battlecruiser KM Scharnhorst. The First Battle of North Cape was, in effect, the opening engagement of a new computer/missile age and the last battleship-to-battleship dual in history, in which no aircraft played any part.

    (...)

    Tensions with Russia have been building for months as an increasingly erratic President Putin, faced with economic and societal challenges that makes those of the rest of Europe seem trivial, has become steadily more aggressive. Central and Eastern Europe face regular cyber-attacks, with banking, transportation, and even health systems effectively shut down for days at a time. RT, Sputnik, and other Kremlin-controlled Russian media organs, pump out increasingly hysterical fake news stories about Western aggression. In recent weeks, Russia’s Western Military District (Oblast) has been reinforced with several new spearhead divisions, threatening much of NATO’s eastern border. Worse, Russia has markedly increased both the number and type of treaty-legal and illegal nuclear weapons deployed to its Kaliningrad enclave between Poland and Lithuania.

    Above the Arctic Circle the Russian Northern Fleet has adopted aggressive patrolling with aircraft, ships and submarines regularly attempting to intimidate NATO naval forces far out into the North Atlantic. However, the most dangerous encounters take place in the so-called Greenland-Iceland-UK gap, and close to Norway’s North Cape.

    In early July, Russia moved a large formation of Naval Infantry (marines) to Pechenga, close to Russia’s short border with Norway. An alarmed Oslo called for Alliance support. On August 10th, as tensions ratchet up, and by way of response to Russia, the North Atlantic Council ordered SACEUR to take all necessary steps to demonstrate to Moscow the Alliance’s determination to defend its borders, and the vital sea and air lines of communication around them. However, few US ships are available to the Alliance given the mounting tensions in Asia-Pacific, the size and capability of the Chinese People’s Liberation Navy (PLN), and a series of humanitarian disasters in the Mediterranean and beyond, engineered by Russia and Iran, and partly linked to the ongoing migration crisis.

    A hastily-organised NATO Task Group is formed and organised around HMS Queen Elizabeth. The Task Group includes ships, aircraft and submarines from Britain, Canada, France, Germany, the Netherlands, and of course, Norway.

    August 15th 0430 hours: 150 nautical miles WNW of North Cape. Suddenly weapons and defence systems on board HMS Queen Elizabeth crash, as the Task Group flagship suffers a sustained cyber-attack, along with much of the rest of the twenty-ship flotilla. Almost simultaneously the huge ship is attacked by an intelligent swarm of autonomous, flying armed ‘attack-bots’. The Second Battle of North Cape has begun.

    0431 hours: Situational awareness is effectively reduced to nil. The decision-action cycle of the ship’s captain is reduced to less than a second, whilst the commodore loses all communications and command and control links to the Task Group. Parts of the robotic drone swarm split up and attack specific systems on HMS Queen Elizabeth.

    0432 hours: Internal communications are disabled and the damage control centre fails; the ship stalls to a sudden halt as the engines go into reverse. Two Russian Yasen-class nuclear attack submarines, successfully avoiding the 3G and 4G detection systems of the Task Group by exploiting the different temperature and density layers of frigid North Atlantic waters, each launch an Iskandr PL anti-ship missile and cripple ‘Big Lizzie’. The damage to HMS Queen Elizabeth is devastating.

    0434 hours: The ship takes on water rapidly and begins to list heavily to starboard. After an enormous internal explosion, a shocked captain gives an order he never thought possible. He orders the surviving crew to start shouting “abandon ship - every man and woman for themselves”. Those ‘lucky’ enough to make it into the water die within minutes from hypothermia.

    0453 hours: Twenty-three minutes after the attack begins, a burning HMS Queen Elizabeth, the largest ship ever to serve in the Royal Navy, capsizes and sinks by the bow, propellers spinning in the cold, dark, light of an Arctic dawn, with the loss of almost all hands. Much like HMS Hood, which blew up in the Denmark Strait in May 1941 not so far from the scene of the Royal Navy’s latest battle, there are only three survivors from a crew of 1500. ‘Big Lizzie’s’ complement of F-35 Lightning II/5 (Enhanced Range) fast jets, and Merlin 7 ASW helicopters, never got off her decks.

    0454 hours: The Russian submarine Novosibirsk flashes a success signal to Moscow. It contains just one word; ‘Kursk’.

    1. Boris the Cockroach Silver badge
      Mushroom

      Re: a leak?!

      0603 HMS Asute sends the one word message "Archangel" to Northwood indicating 6 cruise missiles armed with tactical nuclear weapons have just hit the russian north fleet bases near Murmansk

      0623 US sensors show multiple rocket launches across northern Russia

      0632 US land based ICBMs take off from their bases

      0633 everyone on the planet floods facebook with goodbye messages along with plenty of curse words.....

      0645 see icon

    2. Shannyla

      Re: a leak?!

      Splendid tale M. Coward, very sub-Tom Clancey. Sadly such an act would almost certainly be the point where the big pointy atom bang sticks would start to fly, and it would something of a hollow victory for Ivan, no matter how krokodil-crazed they'd gotten by 2025. Yes, yes, lots of chatter right now about how Russia thinks they're able to push their luck because nobody in the West has any balls any more and have traded in all their military at cash Convertors, but I'm not sure they're quite that stupid or confident.

      Russia is the Begbie of geopolitics, frightening but ultimately a wee man with an attitude problem.

      1. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        Re: a leak?!

        "[...] but ultimately a wee man with an attitude problem."

        Those are the ones you have to worry about!

        1. Fruit and Nutcase Silver badge
          Joke

          Re: a leak?!

          If this were the HMS Prince of Wales, the a LEEK would have been quite in order

      2. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        Re: very sub-Tom Clancey

        About the Authors

        General John Allen USMC (Retd.) is Senior Fellow of the Brookings Institution in Washington DC, the former Special Presidential Envoy for the Global Coalition to Counter ISIL, and former Commander of the NATO International Security Assistance Force in Afghanistan.

        General Philip M. Breedlove (Retd.) is the former NATO Supreme Allied Commander, Europe (SACEUR) and Distinguished Professor at the Sam Nunn School at Georgia Tech.

        Professor Dr Julian Lindley-French is Senior Fellow of the Institute for Statecraft in London, Director of Europa Analytica in the Netherlands, Distinguished Visiting Research Fellow at the National Defense University, Washington DC, and a Fellow of the Canadian Global Affairs Institute.

        Admiral (Ret.d) Sir George Zambellas is the former First Sea Lord, Head of the Royal Navy.

        p.s. I would recommend other parts of the document (GNAI-Future-War-NATO), as it does contain a word or two about Russian perceptions of the West, and Western perceptions of Russia, including certain...human characteristics. Nothing new, but neatly rounded up (although the whole document is, conveniently, one-sided).

      3. Kiwi
        Mushroom

        Re: a leak?!

        Russia is the Begbie of geopolitics, frightening but ultimately a wee man with an attitude problem.

        Kinda scary how we have that with Russia, more so with the Norks, and maybe even more so with the Yanks!

        "Man-made global warming" could happen a LOT faster than even the freakiest of the IPCC bods could imagine (see icon)

    3. Pedigree-Pete
      Pint

      Re: a leak?!

      Great story AC. Have one of these for entertainment value. PP

  27. Paul Herber Silver badge

    PGI

    Have you been a victim of PGI (Propellor Gland Insurance) miss-selling? You must act soon or lose the ability to claim. The deadline for claims is fast approaching (2075 by current MOD estimates).

  28. Spacebots

    Fake news of the week

    As a boat but admittedly, not ship owner myself, this sounds like the fake news story of the week. The thing is...................drum roll..................... stern glands always leak. Not only that, they're supposed to as the water leaking in both cools and lubricates the stern gland. If they leak too much, it's usually just a case of tightening the gland cover. When there is no more adjustment left, the gland has to be added to or repacked. It's routine maintenance and certainly not worthy of the panic stricken news stories in the media today.

  29. Tigra 07
    IT Angle

    Holey moley

    Has Windows XP, which is known to be full of holes. New carrier...Also seemingly full of holes... Is there a connection here?

    1. This post has been deleted by its author

  30. ideapete

    Need Latin Glands

    Seriously the older ( pun ) Royal Navy ships used to use Lignum Vitae ( oily wood ) which used to swell when placed in the glands ( snigger ) making the shaft ( oh jeeez ) watertight and allowing it ( the shaft ) to spin . Now they use artificial packing and the experience is not so good hence the leaky shaft ( I am done stop laughing and great Christmas to you all and remember only use the real deal when handling your shaft or glands )

  31. Matt Hawkins
    Facepalm

    "a matter of public concern" to the public who in general haven't a clue how big engineering projects work. Especially if they are Scum readers. There isn't a single large ship in the water that didn't have defects that needed ironing out.

    Expecting to stick a 70,000 tonne ship in the water without a single issue is like expecting the the Sun to publish a single newspaper without a spelling mistake or lie in it. Will never happen.

  32. danR2

    Leaky...

    McLeakBottom

  33. This post has been deleted by its author

  34. fishman

    Shaft packing gland

    I had to adjust the shaft packing gland in my boat several times this summer. I take two large (2 ft long) adjustable wrenches to do it - release the lock nut, tighten the packing gland, tighten the lock nut. Of course, the QE has a much more sophisticated packing gland otherwise they would need insanely long wrenches. :)

  35. This post has been deleted by its author

  36. chivo243 Silver badge
    Coat

    Optional El Reg measure?

    Nobody?

    Kettle is the best you can do? No bulgarian air bags?

    1. davemcwish

      Re: Optional El Reg measure?

      @chivo243

      Try this

  37. disgruntled yank

    Link

    The article that the story thoughtfully links to includes the sentence

    "Consequently, we have reached a state of affairs where the public think that the QUEEN ELIZABETH is a late, leaking and broken white elephant without any planes."

    Does The Register have any idea how the public got that idea?

  38. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    I LoveOld School

    Anyone know if they still use Lignum Vitae for the shaft bearings?

    Cuz I've got some I'd be willing to part with for a "modest" sum.

    (Modest per MOD standards)

  39. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    A boat without a leak...

    ...is in dry dock!

  40. Stevie

    Bah!

    Propellers? How 19th century.

    I would have thought this thing was jet propelled and rode the seas on massive hydrofoil wings, putting the fear of Britannia into all who sailed around her, and able to respond to a crisis half a world away in a couple of hours or so.

    Hellfire, we were supposed to have airborn aircraft carriers by now.

    Century 21 productions my arse!

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Were we supposed to have airborn aircraft carriers by now?

      They tried flying aircraft carriers in the 1930s-1950s.

      E.g.,

      https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Airborne_aircraft_carrier

      https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/McDonnell_XF-85_Goblin#Further_developments

      The general conclusion seemed to be that you're better off with in-flight re-fuelling than a flying aircraft carrier.

      1. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        Re: Were we supposed to have airborn aircraft carriers by now?

        The US for one had dirigibles that carried fighters hung from hooks. The wreck of one is off the California coast, still with its fighters.

        1. Anonymous Coward
          Anonymous Coward

          Re: Were we supposed to have airborn aircraft carriers by now?

          The airship MAcon

          1. Stevie

            Re: Were we supposed to have airborn aircraft carriers by now?

            NonononoNO!

            Extinct balloons don't count, firstly because they are balloons with three, count 'em, three biplanes inside and secondly because we don't have them any more!

            If it doesn't have a runway and a load-out of Angel Interceptors it NEED NOT APPLY!

  41. Fruit and Nutcase Silver badge
    Happy

    Her Majesty’s business.

    "before sending the ship on Her Majesty’s business"

    A nice cruise around to the western isles in the summer like the old days on Britannia. Perhaps with HM and Phillip being allowed to take the helm for a bit.

  42. Tom Paine

    Yes, but no, but yes

    Yes, the public who pay for these things with tax have a right to be told about them. I just wish the filtering mechanism that boils down the daily firehose of press releases and general newsflow was a bit better at putting them into context, as El Reg has so done so nicely in TFA. Like many Reg readers with only hazy grasp of naval architecture, a couple of seconds mental arithmetic and knowing that "bilge" and "leaks" are things in perfectly seaworthy vessels and I was thinking "oh, come ON" at the radio yesterday.

    Of course the whole shock horror scandal story comes from the tabloid sewer, and the BBC and presumably other MSM outlets felt compelled to pick it up.

    Barnum's Law is a bastard.

  43. d3vy

    Tomorrow's sun headline : Toilets on deck 3 won't flush.

  44. Winkypop Silver badge
    Coat

    There's a hole in the bucket

    Dear Eliza...Dear Eliza...

  45. Anonymous Coward
    Go

    In other news....

    The Royal Navy announced the addition of a saltwater pool to the facilities aboard the Queen Elizabeth, because "nothing's too good for our boys in uniform".

  46. Scorchio!!

    Cofferdam.

  47. davemcwish

    El Reg Units?

    For the confused, 200L is:-

    Walnut 2387

    Chicken's Egg 1091

    Grapefruit 382

    Bulgarian airbag 347

    Bulgarian funbag 117

    Football 35

    Olympic-sized swimming pool 0.0001

    or more simply 17 x 12L (97p @ B&Q) buckets' worth an hour - not a great deal tbh.

  48. Sanguma

    Shaft Seals? What species?

    “An issue with a shaft seal has been identified during HMS Queen Elizabeth’s sea trials."

    Use a shaft walrus next time: it might work harder.

    Meanwhile the rest of us zoologists find ourselves wondering, what seal? Fur seal? Crab-eating seal? Harp seal? Inquiring minds wants to know!!!

  49. Gnomalarta

    There's a hole in our warship

    Dear Lizzie, dear Lizzie.

    There's a hole in our warship

    Dear Lizzie, a hole.

    How much did it cost you?

    Dear Tresa, dear Tresa.

    How much did cost you

    Dear Tresa, how much?

    Three billion dear Lizzie

    Dear Lizzie, dear Lizzie.

    They say it's quite normal

    Dear Tresa, dear Tresa.

    They say it's quite normal

    To have holes in your plans.

    1. Anonymous Coward
  50. The answer is 42

    why?

    As one who was in the business, there is a well- trodden path to go down. FATS for factory acceptance tests, i.e. is it painted the right colour, is the red light on the left, etc. Then we move onto HATS, harbour acceptance trials i.e. does it float the right way up, does the radar work, DOES IT LEAK, are there sufficient sockets for kettles. Finally, SATS ( as above but at sea). Does it roll over, can it go back and forward, does it make a good "thrum" at full speed ahead. Who signed off Harbour Acceptance?

    1. Kiwi
      Coat

      Re: why?

      Who signed off Harbour Acceptance?

      Possibly... Just possibly... The leak wasn't detectable initially, but after the shaft had been going for a while the hole got a bit bigger and looser?

      1. d3vy

        Re: why?

        "the shaft had been going for a while the hole got a bit bigger and looser?"

        *Muffled sniggers*

  51. Barry Mahon

    Gratuitous Insults not welcome

    "a leaky gland seriously affected the carrier’s ability to operate"

    Thanks for your insult to anyone who happens to suffer from a minor problem..... NOT just your oldies....

  52. Wayles

    What a really bad sea trial looks like...

    The Swedish Navy's ship took two years to build, and sailed the grand total of 1300m before sinking on its first time out. Admittedly that was in 1628.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vasa_(ship)

  53. EnviableOne

    Dear ElReg

    SHIPS LEAK, wodden ones were worse, but thats why the bilge pump has been around since ancient times (conventional wisdom says this is what the archemedies screw was invented for)

    The bilge and sullage collection system on HMS QE has the capacity to hold up to 83 m3 or 83000 litres or 17 days 7hrs of leakage, this is processed and safely expelled within the average 8 hrs shift.

    The issue isnt that big Liz isnt on schedule, its tat they got rid of the harriers and Invincible class before they had a replacement.

    The other nations intending on operating the F35-B are actually copying the Invincible class idea, wheras the RN have learnt from this, the old ASW Carriers were highly limited by their single runway and limited deck area, and could not operate more than two flights simultaneously (after a midlife upgrade) wheras the QE class can land and recover symaltaneously and have rotary wing co-operation, they also have the capacity to land STOL aircraft like the C-130 that wouldnt have the space on the invicible class.

    I am firmly of the opinion that the F35 will be a white elephant, and a version of the AV-8B would have better solved the Fleet Air Arm requirement, or even a Blank sheet design from BAe/RR.

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: Dear ElReg

      I'd like to see a Herc land on her.

  54. dmacleo

    its been a long time since I looked but isn't there ALWAYS a slight bit of shaft leakage that the system(s) are designed to compensate for?

    while this may be more than normal this is (if I am right) what sea trials are specifically designed to draw out.

    or am I way off base?

    please correct me if I am wrong.

  55. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    They will have to check all the shafts.

    The MOD shafted by BAE again?

  56. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    Slow news day

    I listened to the BBC interview some guy about this leak on Radio 4 and I'll tell you I was right pissed off at the stupid BBC journalist who was so trying to make it a huge disaster for the MOD/Goverment/Britain/Engineers who ever. Stupid ***** woman. It so gets on my tits when stupid people think that things always work first time with no teething troubles. Dumb ******* BBC journalists. They are never happier than when they can blame somebody for something, anything.

    I sometimes think it's the British disease, if it doesn't work first time it's a failure, give up and go home at least that's what you would think if you listened to the mainstream media. In reality in order to achieve anything you have to fail, but you learn from it and do it better next time! You certainly never give up!

  57. davcefai

    Seals leak. Fact of life. Usually tightening (compressing the packing further) helps. Otherwise replace the packing. Big deal. The really bad case would be a roughness in the shaft - it would need re-machining. *That* would justify the fuss being made. I've had expert craftsmen have problems in getting packing exactly right and this was on shafts maybe 3" dia max.

    Packing starts to leak *after* some use. That's probably one of the reasons the navy do sea trials. :-)

    I can't call this a storm in a teacup because the ship is too big to fit in a teacup.

  58. davcefai

    I've just looked at a link to the Sun. Sad to think how many trees died to supply this drivel.

  59. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    Time to sell it then

    No doubt the Indians or the Brazilians would put a bid in - they like our castoffs.

    Or maybe the Italians could do with a third one...

  60. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    Sounds like a job for fatso

    "Able Seaman Johnson! Come on, I'll collect the water in these buckets, whilst you take the full ones up top and dump the water over the side, hurry up now, there's a good lad!"

    "Why's it gotta be me climbs all them stairs? You're rotten, Chiefy, you're a rotten rotten rotten, and I don't like it, and you're rotten!"

  61. Charles Smith

    In best BBCspeak establishment response : "So, we're working really hard to fix this minor normal problem which may have been due to Brexit, but the real question is ..."

  62. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    Dear Readers, a wee pause for a TopGear maritime moment: 'BBC: Top Gear - The Car Boat Challenge - Amphibious Cars in a Lake! ' https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nl3bsL7Nbnk

  63. Flexdream

    "“An issue with a shaft seal has been identified during HMS Queen Elizabeth’s sea trials2

    What are they doing with a marine mammal loose on the ship I ask? But at least it was and accident, not on porpoise.

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