back to article UKIP appeals against ICO request for info on Brexit data dealings

UKIP has appealed to the information tribunal after the Information Commissioner's Office ordered it to hand over details about its use of data analytics during the Brexit campaign. The data protection watchdog launched an investigation into the use – or misuse – of data analytics in political campaigns, especially the EU …

  1. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    Of course they won't co-operate

    until the get the EU to pay for it.

    1. TheVogon

      Re: Of course they won't co-operate

      "until the get the EU to pay for it."

      So us then.

  2. Doctor Syntax Silver badge

    Not being the type of party to shy away from being accused of petulance

    FTFY

  3. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    disparities in willingness to work with the team

    elsewhere known as "flipping the bird"

  4. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    I detest UKIP but why should they cooperate without a formal request?

    1. Lord Schwindratzheim

      More to the point, why shouldn't they?

      Unless they have something to hide of course...

      1. Diogenes

        Given the corruption of the body politic (parliament and the civil/public services) perhaps UKIP dont want to be Cardinal Richelieu'd. Ie If you give me six lines written by the hand of the most honest of men, I will find something in them which will hang him.

    2. Loyal Commenter Silver badge

      Maybe because, like everyone else, they are legally bound to comply with the regulations surrounding the collection and processing of personal data, which include responding to the ICO with the appropriate information when they ask you to.

      It's not unreasonable for the regulator to expect the information to be forthcoming without having to take the subject to court to comply.

  5. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    Is this snake oil?

    I mean if leave spent 3m with AggregateIQ how much did the remain side spend with them?

    Either referendum result would be a win for AggregateIQ and allowing the amount of spend by the winning side to hit the press is an extremely clever bit of marketing because next election both sides will be guaranteed to spend big if they already hadn't.

    1. Loyal Commenter Silver badge

      I think the problem is that the official government 'remain' campaign didn't do their job very effectively (partly because it was organised by an incompetent government in the first place), coupled with the fact that using targeted social media campaigning is a little less that scrupulously honest, so more likely to have been used by self-serving hard-right individuals such as certain frog-faced failed stockbrokers.

    2. Voland's right hand Silver badge

      That's exactly the point

      The referendum and Trump campaign showed the "incumbents" that number crunching over social media graphs provides significantly higher return on investment than all "legacy" campaign methods. Now both sides know it and use it as the recent Alabama, USA special elections and on this side the French elections have shown.

      In fact, Alabama was a step backwards for Bannon et al - they relied too much on legacy media and nowhere near as much on social media. At the same time, their opponents used social media specifically to mobilize minorities and marginalized groups which usually do not vote. This had the expected effect (same as in the last presidential election). All in all - if you look at the race, gender and other breakdown by group from the Alabama election your jaw will drop.

      If the specific case of the Referendum campaigns the Remain campaign in addition to incompetence, fat-catism at the top and many other issues, was also hobbled in using social media targeting. It was joined at the him with the government and any attempt to use social media tools to their full extent would have caused some issues on where are they getting their data from and would have backfired in their face even further.

      All in all, It is quite funny as this particular use of social media was nurtured from day one by 3 letters. We have had nearly a decade meddling in other countries "democratic processes" this way buying the best "democracies money can buy" elsewhere. It is hilarious how everyone is suddenly surprised that this weapon blew up in our face at the end - let's face it, the democracy will never be the same as we knew it.

      1. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        Re: That's exactly the point

        You both make good points and I agree.

        However back to my original question which clearly some people misunderstood as backing the leave campaign.

        Can someone give me a breakdown of what the remain campaign spent its money on? or even the leave campaign other than this?

        The only thing I can find is the electoral commission breakdown by company for both campaigns which is clearly wrong anyway and doesn't say what they spent it on or who they spent it with.

        Without this the press are giving brexiters all the ammunition they need to claim a smear campaign to discredit them.

        1. I ain't Spartacus Gold badge

          Re: That's exactly the point

          Labour, the Lib Dems and the Conservatives all have in-house campaigning organisations. Which to some extent already do social media targetting and have decades of records of canvas returns in marginal constituencies and telephone canvassing and party membership. So they've already got lots of this stuff around.

          Of course that doesn't mean they've got all their data all nicely cleaned up, formatted the same and organised so they can use it. And also in a unique cross-party campaign, it's hard to know how well they cooperated. Will Straw was head of campaigning for Better Together and complained that he got more cooperation from the Conservatives than he did from Labour (though that was probably more Corbyn's aides, rather than party HQ).

          So it may be they didn't think they needed to buy these services in. Whereas UKIP aren't very well organised, and their party structure seemed to keep being captured by whichever group happened to be in with Farage at that moment. So I doubt they had much of this stuff to use.

          Bought-in might be better than what the parties can bodge together anyway - or the parties might have got good systems, I'm not really up on party organisation enough to know.

        2. Brewster's Angle Grinder Silver badge

          Re: That's exactly the point

          "The only thing I can find is the electoral commission breakdown by company for both campaigns which is clearly wrong"

          If it's "clearly wrong", it would be a criminal offence. That's said, I can't find the information you say is on the Electoral Commission's web site.

          1. Anonymous Coward
            Anonymous Coward

            Re: That's exactly the point

            Here you go. It was reported on in the press on the same day if you do a news search.

            Link

            Clearly wrong because UKIP reported spend is £1,354,393. Though I'm sure there is an argument for in the caveats or they wouldn't have done it.

  6. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    The problem for UKIP

    Is that they have no defence to the charges that they processed data unlawfully.

    After all, if one of your partners in the leave campaign happened to be an offshore entity with access to huge datasets and magically as a political organisation you got to use those datasets what could possibly go wrong?

    Obviously the minor issue of consent, unlawful transfer, unlawful processing of sensitive data could present an issue but this is UKIP we are talking about and they believe they have a god given right to ignore the laws of the land in the name of sovereignty.......

    1. Toltec

      Re: The problem for UKIP

      Why UKIP as opposed to Labour gaining the youth vote in the national election? Not that that means one wasn't more dodgy than the other.

      The government in power does not need to break laws, it just changes them to make what it wants to do legal.

      Is anybody really surprised at what politicians will do to get power?

      1. Doctor Syntax Silver badge

        Re: The problem for UKIP

        "The government in power does not need to break laws, it just changes them to make what it wants to do legal."

        Could you point to any changes in law in a time frame relevant to the referendum?

  7. codejunky Silver badge

    Hmm

    Not being the type of party to shy away from being accused of petulance, a UKIP spokesperson said that it was "perfectly happy" to work with the ICO, but "not under threat". It added that the ICO had been "less than clear as to what it is that they wish us to provide".

    I think I will wait for more information before jumping to conclusions. Especially since UKIP cant trust the political bodies not to abuse them.

    1. Voland's right hand Silver badge

      Re: Hmm

      UKIP and principles go together almost as well as Farage living without connecting his finances directly to the Eu wallet.

      Isn't it lovely how he lambastes Eu civil servant pensions in the few moment his mouth is free and off the suckling on the Eu tit. Not a lot of those moments though.

      Almost as principled as Paul Dacre and Eu subsidies to his farm while scribbling "Are You Ashamed" Graffiti.

      1. codejunky Silver badge

        Re: Hmm

        @ Voland's right hand

        "UKIP and principles go together almost as well as Farage living without connecting his finances directly to the Eu wallet."

        A politician arguing to end his job. I keep hearing the claim that the EU is democratic which would make sense for him to be there to represent us who disagree with the EU. And then there are idiots like Junker who asked why he was still there. Because we are still trapped in the freaking EU and it is supposed to be a democracy (the muppet).

        "Isn't it lovely how he lambastes Eu civil servant pensions in the few moment his mouth is free and off the suckling on the Eu tit. Not a lot of those moments though."

        I am fairly sure he doesnt bother doing the sucking and just calls them out for their stupidities regardless of the money going to him. Now there is plenty of sucking which involves telling us how bad the EU is but we must remain to fix it (not possible). Or Camerons stupidity of 'I will be against remaining if I dont get my demands', waters his demands to a damp squib, doesnt get an agreement on it (not that the EU considers its word binding) and still campaigns to remain. This could all have been sorted out with an initial vote- do we join. But since that didnt happen change had to come from the inside (just not how some remainers would like)

        1. Voland's right hand Silver badge

          Re: Hmm

          I am fairly sure he doesnt bother doing the sucking

          Really? I suggest watching the interview where they ask him about his Eu pension. Again. And again. And again. And again.

          As far as UKIP having interesting financial sources, interesting ways of dealing with campaign finances and interesting ways of dealing with personal data some of us have known about this since the runup to the referendum. The issue is that any in-depth investigation into any of these is extremely inconvenient for nearly all current top power groupings in UK politics so there is an immense pressure for them not to happen as it will mean asking questions about the legitimacy of half of the people at the top at the moment. On both sides of the isle in Westminster too.

          I am really happy that the ICO, election commission and the HMRC have started asking questions. Pity that they will be stopped long before any of them will get to the bottom of some of the dealings.

          1. Roland6 Silver badge

            Re: Hmm

            Really? I suggest watching the interview where they ask him about his Eu pension. Again. And again. And again. And again.

            Are you sure he has an EU pension? Just that I remember him and other Brexiteers saying that the UK wouldn't pay the EU a penny. Given part of the 'divorce bill' is to cover the pensions of UK MEPs such as Farage, I assume that Farage has formally waivered his EU pension entitlement...

            I'm sure we can remove the pension liabilities of all UKIP MEPs from the 'divorce bill', in Farage's case I suggest the monies are donated to the East Midlands Ambulance Service.

            1. Voland's right hand Silver badge

              Re: Hmm

              Are you sure he has an EU pension?

              I hope he does not. For now he does and he considers it right and proper to receive it.

              1. Roland6 Silver badge

                Re: Hmm

                >For now he does and he considers it right and proper to receive it.

                Yet at the same time:

                “We owe them nothing,” Nigel Farage told Good Morning Britain hosts Piers Morgan and Susanna Reid.

                “They owe us billions of pounds,” he hissed

                [https://www.express.co.uk/showbiz/tv-radio/885646/Piers-Morga-Nigel-Farage-row-warning-Brexit-divorce-bill-Susanna-Reid-Good-Morning-Britain ]

                Just another example of how out of touch with the real world and hypocritical the leaders of the Leave campaign were and are...

                1. codejunky Silver badge

                  Re: Hmm

                  @ Roland6

                  "Just another example of how out of touch with the real world and hypocritical the leaders of the Leave campaign were and are..."

                  Really? Assuming we are both looking at the link you posted it sounds about right. What is wrong with it? This is a bad deal and no deal would be better, we owe the EU nothing. I am amused that the presenters think a self imposed bill is something Farage should have warned us all about.

  8. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    Never trust ICO when it comes to political issues.

    If the ICO "requests" were written with half the implicit bias of this article I can fully understand why UKIP are waiting for a formal request that specifies exactly what is being requested, rather like Apple/Google do when police embark on a fishing expedition.

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: Never trust ICO when it comes to political issues.

      According to the article they were asked for information which they didn't provide, then ICO made a legal request which UKIP have now appealed against.

      Having worked with some UKIP people the stench of corruption is all too strong......

  9. davenewman

    Open Democracy has been investigating this

    Read http://www.opendemocracy.net/dup-dark-money and other articles to find out more about the shenanigans of laundering money to pay for data manipulation.

  10. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    Obvously

    The ICO need to paint their request on the side of a bus and park it outside of UKIP HQ

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