back to article Want a new HDMI cable? No? Bad luck. You'll need one for HDMI 2.1

The HDMI forum has released the HDMI 2.1 spec, and promised it can deliver 48Gbps if you buy new cables that support the jump from HDMI 2.0s 18Gbps. But while the organisation has probably delighted gamers and 8K video watchers with that headline number, they'll have to wait until deep into 2018 to get their hands on kit that …

  1. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    A Currys store, late 2018:

    "So you want a new telly then? What sort of thing do you watch?"

    "Oh, you know. Just stuff like Top Gear repeats from 2011 on Dave"

    "Well, you'll definitely need a new HDMI2.1 cable then for that. Cor blimey, you won't see nuffink without a new cable from your old Sky box! In fact I can do a deal, buy one get one at 5% off - you can use the other one for your VHS player"

    I swear Dixons pay the HDMI Consortium to feature bump cables so they can harass people into rebuying them.

    1. Dan 55 Silver badge

      As I understand it there is no feature bump for cables. When you buy a HDMI 1.4 cable it means that the cable can cope with the bandwidth required for HDMI 1.4. If the cable's not made of strings and yoghurt pots then it'll be just as good for HDMI 2.0.

      So they don't even have USB's excuse of messing round with the connectors every so often.

      1. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        @Dan 55

        “As I understand it there is no feature bump for cables. When you buy a HDMI 1.4 cable it means that the cable can cope with the bandwidth required for HDMI 1.4. If the cable's not made of strings and yoghurt pots then it'll be just as good for HDMI 2.0.”

        Nope,there is a specified “Ultra High Speed HDMI Cable”. The cables may or may not be capable of 2.0, in the same way a Cat5E will probably support Gigabit ethernet further than 330feet, but it’s not rated for it.

        1. Mage Silver badge

          Re: @Dan 55

          I've chopped a 1.5m €2 HDMI cable and extended it by 15m using two parallel lengths of Cat5e, nothing else. The original data twisted pairs in HDMI cable spec looks very like Cat5 spec. It is a similar digital signal. The other wires are less critical.

          No idea what spec of HDMI, but it does transfer up to 1920 x 1080 @ 60p from ATI or Nvidia graphics cards on a PC in shed to 40" HDTV in living room. A separate USB repeater in middle extended a usb port to a hub at TV for a mouse and small keyboard. Stereo analogue sound card and satellite card "IR blaster" via 2 x 3.5mm jacks and one 2.5mm jack on a third Cat5e cable.

      2. ecarlseen

        Generally the case, but...

        My understanding is that some of the HDMI2.1 cables are using active electronics on the ends (similar to what you see on SFP+ interconnects in datacenters). Not sure if that's all of them or just some that require extended range.

    2. Phil W

      As much as I love to bash Dixons, they haven't paid commission to their sales staff for quite some time now.

      The main reason their sales staff try to sell cables with TVs and such these days is actually to avoid the angry idiots coming back and complaining that they couldn't connect the TV up when they got home because they didn't have the right cables.

      Sure the cables they stock are somewhat overpriced, but only in the same way petrol at a motorway service station or food at a train station is overpriced, you pay for the convenience of getting quickly where you need it instead of waiting.

      1. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        > "The main reason their sales staff try to sell ..."

        Is because they're trained to up-sell. A retail business that doesn't train it's staff to up-sell is just incompetently managed. Which I accept is a possibility with Dixons.

        1. TWB

          Up-selling

          "A retail business that doesn't train it's staff to up-sell is just incompetently managed." - hmm, I wonder .... I don't like shopping in places where they are over pushy and do this so they miss out on my custom (money) and I buy elsewhere.

          Maybe your tongue was planted in your cheek.

        2. tiggity Silver badge

          Strangely enough not always trying to upsell, but instead being informative, friendly and helpful to the customer is more likely to give repeat customer visits (as opposed to "emergency only nightmare place" visits)

          1. FIA Silver badge

            Strangely enough not always trying to upsell, but instead being informative, friendly and helpful to the customer is more likely to give repeat customer visits (as opposed to "emergency only nightmare place" visits)

            Surely that's how well trained sales staff upsell? Being good and knowledgeable.

      2. katrinab Silver badge

        So why do they try to tell you that the £100 Monster Black Platinum Ultimate HDMI Cable is better than the £3.49 Currys Essentials cable?

        1. Anonymous Coward
          Anonymous Coward

          They're ~minimum wage sales assistants, not technical experts.

          I mean, it's more expensive. You don't want the cheapo one when you're spending hundreds on that fancy new TV, do you?

          1. Anonymous Coward
            Anonymous Coward

            > "They're ~minimum wage sales assistants, not technical experts."

            Have a read of the Consumer Protection From Unfair Trading Regulations 2008. There's an obligation on traders not to knowingly make misleading statements, as well as to exercise due "professional diligence" when providing advice or performing a service (i.e. be sufficiently skilled, trained, and generall not a clueless muppet).

            Sales staff unwittingly misleading customers due to not having sufficient knowledge of the product very definitely falls into the "professional diligence" category (as in "solicitor told me it does") .

            1. Doctor Syntax Silver badge

              Sales staff unwittingly misleading customers due to not having sufficient knowledge of the product very definitely falls into the "professional diligence" category (as in "solicitor told me it does") .

              That's unwittingly. Manglement's attitude will be that to do it wittingly is the professional approach.

      3. wolfetone Silver badge

        "Sure the cables they stock are somewhat overpriced,"

        Somewhat overpriced? Well to you they may be, if you like to bathe in that Creed aftershave or Bolinger. But to us mere peasants they're bloody well overpriced!

        1. Phil W
          Joke

          "Somewhat overpriced? Well to you they may be, if you like to bathe in that Creed aftershave or Bolinger."

          Bolinger is for peasants, I use Cristal for my baths.

          1. I ain't Spartacus Gold badge
            Happy

            I'll have you know that bathing in champagne isn't extravagant at all! You've got your savings in bubble bath, the lovely glow it brings to your skin (admittedly this is from smugness rather than particular cleanliness), it's anti-bacterial, it helps keep the drains clear - and best of all, is the lovely repeated popping sounds as one's butler fills the tub...

            Only the mega-rich can afford to bathe in printer ink though.

            1. Anonymous Coward
              Anonymous Coward

              > "Only the mega-rich can afford to bathe in printer ink though."

              Suddenly Trumps weird orange hue makes sense...

            2. Wyrdness

              "Only the mega-rich can afford to bathe in printer ink though."

              Which might explain Trump's bizarre orange colour.

      4. Indolent Wretch

        "Somewhat"

      5. VinceH

        "The main reason their sales staff try to sell cables with TVs and such these days is actually to avoid the angry idiots coming back and complaining that they couldn't connect the TV up when they got home because they didn't have the right cables."

        Here's a crazy idea that would solve that problem, but which will never catch on: A piece of equipment designed to connect to a TV using a HDMI cable could come with a HDMI cable included in the box.

        This crazy idea could also be extended to other equipment and types of cable.

        I can't claim credit for the idea, though, because it's based on a memory of how things used to be.

        1. keith_w

          Re: Want a new HDMI cable? No? Bad luck. You'll need one for HDMI 2.1

          I suppose next you will be wanting a cable to go with your new printer as well? Generally companies don't supply content cables for 2 reasons 1) they assume that the device is a replacement device 2) they cost money that could be better spent (/sarcasm) providing higher paycheques for upper management and/or higher dividends for owners.

          1. VinceH

            Re: Want a new HDMI cable? No? Bad luck. You'll need one for HDMI 2.1

            "I suppose next you will be wanting a cable to go with your new printer as well?"

            That would be nice, yes.

            "Generally companies don't supply content cables for 2 reasons 1) they assume that the device is a replacement device 2) they cost money that could be better spent (/sarcasm) providing higher paycheques for upper management and/or higher dividends for owners."

            #1 isn't a reason, it's an excuse. #2 is the real reason, which they try to hide behind the excuse.

            1. jeffdyer

              Re: Want a new HDMI cable? No? Bad luck. You'll need one for HDMI 2.1

              I'd rather save the £5 they would add to the cost od the hardware, and have the choice of using one of my many existing cables, or buying a new one to my own spec.

        2. Mark 85

          Here's a crazy idea that would solve that problem, but which will never catch on: A piece of equipment designed to connect to a TV using a HDMI cable could come with a HDMI cable included in the box.

          Err... maybe. But to cut costs, the box will have a 3 foot (1M approx.) cable. When you get it home, you'll find you need one that's longer. Back to the store....

        3. Allan George Dyer
          Windows

          Not just a memory...

          @VinceH - I've got the evidence of drawers full of the extra cables that came with everything, because there was 'one of each' in the box, I used the one I needed, and stored the rest for all those occasions when I would need the alternative. Of course, I can never find the right bloody alternative when the occasion arises!

          And then there's the times where you find the monitor has been hooked up to the computer with both VGA and DVI cables...

          But now we face a future where, because there are two cables that appear interchangeable but have different capabilities, some people will be paying through the nose for a fancy cable they don't need, and others will be complaining their new TV isn't an improvement because they've used a low-spec cable (possibly because it was thinner and easier to route, or a colour that matched their decor).

          icon - [wanders off muttering about finding that UHF-to-ultra-wide-SCSI adapter]

          1. VinceH

            Re: Not just a memory...

            "@VinceH - I've got the evidence of drawers full of the extra cables that came with everything, because there was 'one of each' in the box, I used the one I needed, and stored the rest for all those occasions when I would need the alternative."

            Ditto. :)

            YMMV, but I do occasionally end up searching those drawers (actually now plastic containers in the shed) for odd cables for people. (And sometimes I even find them!)

            However, that should be less of a problem now with everything pretty much standardised on a comparatively small set of cables/connectors. Back in the day a VCR might have come with a host of leads for the different types of connections that could be made from it (the one you'd use would depend on which connection is available from the multitude on your TV), these days there should be much less of that.

            Instead, there is this problem you mentioned instead:

            "because there are two cables that appear interchangeable but have different capabilities,"

            This is again easily solved. Instead of the details of the cable being printed in a dark colour on the dark cable itself, they could put a decent label around the cables to state - in more easily readable colours, such as black on white - what the cable is and what it is for.

        4. MrZoolook

          Another radical idea

          My stepdad used to work for Maplin. He tells us that they routinely took out the included cables (be they USB, Scart, or HDMI) from boxed goods, specifically so they can sell them to you as add-on sales.

          Perhaps an extension of bundling required cables in each device, should be a change in law to make it illegal for a firm to remove them to steal... er... generate extra sales.

      6. John Lilburne

        the convenience of getting quickly where you need it instead of waiting.

        Ha. I was in a PC World earlier in the week with about £100+ of stuff. One person on the checkout, couple of people in front of me. Checkout person was trying to find a till/card reader that worked. After 10 minutes I left the stuff on the counter and walked out.

        1. Yet Another Anonymous coward Silver badge

          Re: the convenience of getting quickly where you need it instead of waiting.

          Ha. I was in a PC World earlier in the week with about £100+ of stuff. .... Checkout person was trying to find a till/card reader that worked.

          So when the IBM salesman told them that they needed a £100 Monster gold-plated directional ethernet cable to connect the POS, they should have listened

          1. d3vy

            Re: the convenience of getting quickly where you need it instead of waiting.

            "Ha. I was in a PC World earlier in the week with about £100+ of stuff."

            So just the one ink cartridge then?

    3. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Don't forget the audiophool version

      Oxygen free gold plated connectors surrounded by EM attenuation crystals attached to copper cable that was blessed by angels after smelting by unicorns that requires you to only set it up on an E-W axis because its quantum sensitivity means signals will otherwise be affected by the earths magnetic field vibrating in synchronicity with the phases of the moon.

  2. Tom 7

    I can wait.

    A lot longer.

    A lot lot lot longer.

    Unless a RaspberryPi comes out that can read disks on HDMI of course.

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: I can wait.

      I'm waiting for a PI that can do HEVC at 4K with HDR with a reasonable framerate.

  3. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    Desire...

    Do I want an 8K telly?

    1. Korev Silver badge

      Re: Desire...

      If the availability of 4K content is anything to go by, you'd be waiting a long time to find anything to watch on it... The majority of content available via my cabe connection is in SD even now.

      1. Grumpyrocker

        Re: Desire...

        Netflix and Amazon have lots of 4K content, with lots of it in HDR/Dolby Vision. 4K is there if you want it.

        1. Jonathan 27

          Re: Desire...

          I've watched a lot of both of those and I'm not convinced that it looks any better than 1080p, with all the compression Netflix and Amazon put on the stream. I'm not saying they don't look good, just that I can't really tell a difference. HDR i can tell, but the higher resolution on the ultra-compressed streams? Not really. Luke Cage is particularly pointless in 4K because of the heavy fake film grain effect applied to the show.

        2. Deltics

          Netflix and Amazon's "4K" content

          So let me get this straight.... to get 4K content down an HDMI cable you need an HDMI 2.0 cable capable of 6Gbps. That's for the picture/sound information. But you need to get those pictures and sounds from somewhere.

          If that "somewhere" is a Blu-Ray then the minimum bit-rate for the delivery of that content to the decoder that turns it into picture information is 80Mbps (going up to 108Mbps or 128Mbps). That has to carry picture AND sound (these days, possibly as much as 7 channels of the stuff).

          For 4K ("UHD") content Netflix recommend an **internet connection** of 25Mbps. Unlike your BD players, that connection is shared by all your other internet traffic and the actual data delivery from the 'flix servers down that pipe will be somewhat less. I've seen figures as low as 12Mbps and only as high as 18 Mbps for the actual 'flix UHD stream.

          Now sure, 4K is 4K is 4K: it's just a measure of the pixel dimensions of the eventual picture frame.

          But if you really think that 'flix 4K is the same as 4K off a Blu-Ray or that the quality of streaming service delivery can improve without first some step-change in the delivery of that content from the servers across the miles of public infrastructure managed on a RoI basis by for-profit companies then I have some left-handed screw-drivers here that I think you may be interested in.

          1. Anonymous Coward
            Anonymous Coward

            8K movie releases will be few and far between

            If they ever come at all. You'd see the grain on 35mm film at that resolution, so it would only make sense for 70mm. Now that a lot of stuff is shot in 4K digital, you can't magically upgrade it to 8K unless it is almost entirely CGI (and if so, re-rendering an entire movie would be fantastically expensive, and could never be recouped on sales of an 8K version, so it won't happen)

            Besides, it is pretty damn hard to tell the difference between native 4K and upscaled 4K on a quality 4K TV unless you are eyestrain close to it. The main improvement we'll see with 4K is HDR, which we could have had with HD but didn't, because reasons.

            It is a simple law of diminishing returns - the difference between SD and HD was huge, especially since most also upgraded from analog to digital at the same time. The difference between HD and 4K is a lot smaller, and that's even accounting for the fact that in a lot of cases (at least in the US) it is an upgrade from 720p to 4K which is a 3x jump. The upgrade from 4K to 8K would be a simple 2x jump, on top of the already diminishing returns - I just don't see there being any real demand for it.

            Sure, you'll be able to buy 8K TVs, because TV OEMs have to find reasons to get people to buy new TVs when they don't need them. And Netflix will put out a few 8K titles just for the heck of it. There just won't be enough demand for 8K to make it a real standard. Heck, the jury is still out on whether 4K will be more than a handful of major channels, along with movies, rather than the "nearly everything" that the HD upgrade was.

            1. Mage Silver badge

              Re: 8K movie releases will be few and far between

              Even regular HD in 2.35:1 format at 2.5m viewing distance needs about 50" to 72" screen to get full advantage. So 4K only really makes sense if you are really close to screen or have bigger than 55" and good eyes.

              Draw your own conclusions about 8K.

              The 4K and often even HD delivered by Internet is often not as good as best quality DVDs upscaled! It's impossible at the bitrates that most people can get.

              Where are the decent HD / UHD projectors with zoom lenses so you can have an appropriate size screen?

              Why can't my 4K 46" HDTV show poor SD at a smaller than full screen? It would look far better.

        3. Mage Silver badge

          Netflix and Amazon have lots of 4K

          a) That's subscription TV, which I will not ever return to.

          b) It needs decent broadband with no cap. Esp in a household. No-one in this house allowed to watch YouTube as it would balloon out of control and other people would be unable to post comments here or download updates etc.

      2. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        Re: Desire...

        Just like 4k TV's have finally got all channels to provide a HD version, 8K adoption may convince companies to start broadcasting in 4k, so yes, get one please.

      3. BinkyTheMagicPaperclip Silver badge

        Re: Desire...

        You can watch 4K at 60fps, right now, with Ultra HD Bluray. You'll need a suitable player (standard ones don't work), and there's only five pages of movies on Amazon UK at the moment, but it's not as if it's rocket science.

      4. GruntyMcPugh Silver badge

        Re: Desire...

        "you'd be waiting a long time to find anything to watch on it"

        Indeed, I just bought a 4K telly, but ummed and ahhed a bit, eventually plumping for it 'cos the one I liked the look of was on sale last Friday, and I reasoned my old Samsung lasted nine years (well, is still working, but let's keep this short) and that was HD, and I now have _some_ HD, so if the new one lasts the same amount of time, I might be able to enjoy _some_ 4K.

        Although I'm not going to bust a gut to upgrade to 4k sources, I'll let the prices drop, and then see how much new eyeballs are, as I', not getting any younger.

        1. King Jack
          Linux

          Re: Desire...

          You can get a re-tread on your eyes (Laser Treatment) to give you the ability when straining to spot the difference between 4K and beyond. Only costs a few thousand per eye.

          1. Mage Silver badge

            Re: re-tread on your eyes (Laser Treatment)

            No, it only removes need for particular lenses and over 50 may be a really really bad idea!

            With Presbytopia you need one pair of glasses for books and another for TV.

            Eventually you need a third pair for laptop/PC as it is further off than normal book reading distance but MUCH closer than TV screen.

            There are risks too with laser treatment. Only one eye at a time should be done. If your glasses prescriptions change every couple of years it will make vision worse.

            Also it does nothing for the retina. Differences in resolving ability are not just lens/cornea but also retina.

            1. Anonymous Coward
              Anonymous Coward

              Re: re-tread on your eyes (Laser Treatment)

              I decided to skip laser treatment and am keeping an eye on IOLs (intraocular lenses) which today are artificial lenses used for cataracts, but they are working on making them accommodative so you would get back your near vision. They have some range of accommodation, but not good enough to where you were in your 20s and 30s which is what I'd like.

              I'm a little over 50 so I've started to see my near vision go the last few years - I don't need reading glasses yet but the clock is ticking and I probably will in another 5 or 10 years. Hopefully they get the technology figured out by then!

              With contacts I don't have to do a full correction, so if my near vision gets worse I can just correct to say 20/40 instead of 20/20 to compensate for day to day use, and only fully correct when I need better vision (basically playing golf is the only time it matters) That would add a few more years of avoiding reading glasses if the technology takes longer than I'm hoping.

            2. barbara.hudson
              Meh

              Re: re-tread on your eyes (Laser Treatment)

              And when you get old enough, you won't care about the screen size because you'll be using a screen reader for your pc and described video for your tv. There gets a point where it's just not worth the cost of buying a 100" screen which can double as a space heater.

      5. Mage Silver badge
        Windows

        Re: Desire...

        I found a 4K demo loop on satellite on 19.2E, works on the built in sat tuner on the Sony 4K TV. The one I never connect to Internet because it has stupid Android TV.

        I've never even seen anything in retail that is a 4K content source. I heard that there are some sort of 4K BD, but never seen the disks. I do have a BD player (recently, the other HDTV uses component at up to 1440 x 576p or 1440 x 480 upsampled from DVD player) but so far few BD movies. They seem to have stopped making content I want to watch, though we might get Blue Planet II. I wonder has someone ordered it already and what format?

    2. David 132 Silver badge
      Windows

      Re: Desire...

      I'm sure plenty of people will, for the inevitable 8K re-release of Star Wars, Blade Runner, etc.

      Whether there'll be any noticeable difference in those "digitally re-re-re-re-re-mastered" upsampled, Deckard-shot-Greedo-first directors' cuts is of course debatable.

      1. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        Re: Desire...

        > "Whether there'll be any noticeable difference in those [8k source] of course debatable."

        Given that I find there is no discernible difference between "Full HD" and "UHD" content on my 49" 4K TV*, when viewed from my standard viewing distance of 8' (with 20:20 eyesight, according to my optician), I'm going with "no". (deliberately ignoring the bit about being upsampled, etc)

        * I wanted a nice HD one, but the 4K one I got was nicer when displaying 720p/1080p content, and not much more.

      2. VinceH
        Facepalm

        Re: Desire...

        "Whether there'll be any noticeable difference in those "digitally re-re-re-re-re-mastered" upsampled, Deckard-shot-Greedo-first directors' cuts is of course debatable."

        You're talking shit. It was Indiana Jones that shot Greedo first.

        1. keith_w

          Re: Desire...

          "You're talking shit. It was Indiana Jones that shot Greedo first."

          Are we sure it wasn't John Book?

          1. MrZoolook

            Re: Desire...

            It wasn't either of them. It was Dr Richard Kimble.

      3. keith_w

        Re: Desire...

        While Harrison Ford played both Deckard and Han Solo, I think that you will find that Han Solo is the one who shot Greedo

        1. VinceH

          Re: Desire...

          "While Harrison Ford played both Deckard and Han Solo, I think that you will find that Han Solo is the one who shot Greedo"

          Oh dear. You'll be telling us next that James Bond wasn't Jack Ryan's father.

      4. Yet Another Anonymous coward Silver badge

        Re: Desire...

        The new special edition Blade runner on 8K is an improvement.

        Deckard shoots first and then it's 90minutes of CGI spaceships exploding, they removed all the robots and their wordy speeches.

    3. Jonathan 27

      Re: Desire...

      It shouldn't matter much unless it's 200" across or you sit with your nose right up against the screen. So i wouldn't worry about it. The electronics industry just wants to sell more TVs, despite us already having hit the point of diminishing returns for common TV sizes at 1080p.

    4. joed

      Re: Desire...

      I've not found a need for 4k TV yet, much less for 8k. And as the time goes by, I won't notice difference anyway (besides the pricetag). The 1080p plasma works fine (and will last forever with the sporadic use I subject it to) and my comcastic Internet can't even sustain youtube videos at the native resolution anyway (at the monthly fees I'm willing to hand over to the monopolist). 4k computer monitor - same deal, the recent upgrade to 1440p should last until LCDs are replaced with technology that offers more than just resolution increase.

  4. Phil Bennett

    So when do we get proper 8k?

    This is a standard to support 8k, which is nice given 4k is, well, here in force, but it only supports it with subsampled chroma, so it will be useless for anything with fine detail (like computer monitors).

    When do they plan to support the full monty? 2020?

    1. ArrZarr Silver badge

      Re: So when do we get proper 8k?

      Considering the fact that you need to sell your soul to get a PC setup that has a hope of doing anything in 8k currently, It's probably not that big a deal.

      Gaming in 8k is way off at this stage, you're looking at a pair of 1080 Ti cards before you're running smoothly.

      Beyond that, for productivity, it's a question of whether 8k with subsampled chroma is worse that full fat 4k which it probably isn't.

      1. BinkyTheMagicPaperclip Silver badge

        Re: So when do we get proper 8k?

        A pair of 1080Tis can't handle 8K properly, and a single 1080Ti currently can't maintain 4K60 under all circumstances for all games.

    2. Jonathan 27

      Re: So when do we get proper 8k?

      Unless you're piping an image to a wall-sized advertising screen you won't ever be needing 8K so I wouldn't worry about it.

  5. rmason

    I'll wait

    I'll wait for the gold plated ones, because everyone knows that's the way forward.

    Something to do with audio quality, right?

    1. Paul Crawford Silver badge
      Trollface

      Re: I'll wait

      Yes, the "ker-ching" sounds so much better with gold :)

    2. Flocke Kroes Silver badge

      Re: I'll wait

      Gold plated contacts are a requirement for low voltage signalling. Back when clock speeds were barely over 1MHz there were tin plated contacts that would corrode, jam and rip the sockets off you computer. Demanding gold paid for itself even though they could not plate anything like as thin as they do now. These days the difference between a £30 gold plated cable and a £3 cable the same thickness is the price.

      1. Paul Crawford Silver badge

        Re: I'll wait

        "Gold plated contacts are a requirement for low voltage signalling"

        Indeed, not gold plated bodies and similar bling. Also that is for very low voltage analogue stuff, in the digital HDMI case the signal levels are way above that and pretty tolerant of amplitude shifts.

        1. Anonymous Coward
          Anonymous Coward

          Re: I'll wait

          I once bought a SCART lead that had Plutonium plugs. I think it was from Rumbelows. It was well worth the upgrade from the Uranium 235 cables I had before. If I recall correctly, the same teenage salesperson sold me some magic beans at the same time.

      2. Phil O'Sophical Silver badge

        Re: I'll wait

        Gold plated contacts are a requirement for low voltage signalling

        But it only makes a difference when both sets of contacts are gold-plated, and even then only in fairly extreme environments.

        I've yet to see a standard TV with gold-plated contacts on its sockets, so having gold-plated contacts on the cables is a complete waste of money, and may even make matters worse given the likelihood of an electrochemical reaction between the tin and the gold causing the tin to corrode

        1. Yet Another Anonymous coward Silver badge

          Re: I'll wait

          contacts? Wire wrap cables and boards only please

      3. Mage Silver badge

        Gold plated contacts are a requirement for low voltage signalling

        VERY low voltage in a damp environment.

        Like medical probes.

        Some internal cards and connectors that are only ever disconnected during servicing. Never ever on regularly changed cards and connectors.

        Gold on consumer gear, even analogue, is pure bling and inferior to nickel on brass.

        1) Has to be ALWAYS gold to gold, because otherwise Electrochemical action, other metal attacked.

        2) If a connector is rarely taken out, then tin to tin doesn't corrode. It makes a gas tight joint.

        3) Silver and copper are better conductors. Silver oxide conducts so professional connections for RF often use silver over brass.

        4) Gold is bad on PCBs for high RF, because it needs an underneath coating that has magnetic properties.

        5) Gold near tin causes the destruction of the tin.

        6) Even "thick" gold wears too fast. Pure gold is worst being soft.

        7) For analogue normal use, nickel on brass is superior to gold and doesn't hurt tin plating.

        8) Very high use connectors use brass to brass as it's self cleaning. No good for intermittent use due to corrosion, hence 7.

  6. Andy The Hat Silver badge

    cables, schmables ...

    My 80 year old neighbour bought a 40" LCD tv. He wanted to connect it to his old, pre HD Sky box so needed a simple scart cable. The store gladly sold him one.The one he had to have because it was HD gubbins, had gold and silver stuff in it, some OFC things stored somewhere and had pirate incantations whispered over it during the extrusion of its super special pvc insulation ... all for only £120.

    Of course, the cable was obviously needed as although both my neighbours' eyesight and hearing were bad, the cable significantly improved the salesman's wallet/cash extraction signal and subsequent bank balance viewing experience ...

  7. James 51

    Wired VR headsets might benefit but you'd hope the wireless options would be available by then.

    1. cirby

      Current VR headsets (Vive, Rift) are barely able to run wireless - it's "edge" hardware at the moment, the the few people who use the TPCAST wireless kit are mostly having to deal with a lot of bugs and other issues. I know this because I'm one of them.

      The next generation of headsets - 4K per eye monsters like the Pimax, for example - are going to be using DisplayPort, because current HDMI just can't handle the bandwidth on a single cable. They talk about an RF wireless add-on, but that's vaporware at the moment.

      HDMI 2.1 will allow 4K per eye, plus be able to push HDR content, which will make more difference than any planned upgrades in resolution.

      Wireless for that bandwidth just isn't in the cards right now. I'm betting on optical wireless for the next step, because getting that much 100% reliable radio bandwidth is getting harder and harder.

  8. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    Just as I was thinking of upgrading my early 4K TV to 4K+HDR, something new comes along.

  9. Mage Silver badge

    how many people buy the new cable before … bought the new TV

    Good that it's compatible. Because you don't replace everything at once.

    Hopefully the 2.1 sockets on the 72" 8K projector / TV / Monitor will work with original HDMI sources, playing 576i25 and 480i30 video.

    In comparison USB has been a mess. Even apart from USB-C, a gazzilion incompatible cables.

    Though HDMI ARC seems to be a failure. Erratic compatibility and not compatible at all with HDMI-in to 5.1 analogue out or HDMI to analogue stereo decoders. Two high end HDTVs and the only way to get audio into my HiFi is the earphone socket? Yet internal speakers on a par with a laptop.

    1. Nick Ryan Silver badge

      Re: how many people buy the new cable before … bought the new TV

      The audio issue is often to do with HDCP, content protection. Unless your stereo/amp/speaker setup also supports HDCP and can negotiate this digitally up the cable the TV's HDCP chipset will reject it. Alternatively while not rejecting it, low quality rate connections are enforced instead.

      1. kain preacher

        Re: how many people buy the new cable before … bought the new TV

        Worse. I was watching a review of 8k tellys and the review was complaining his reciver would randomly stop handshaking with his 4k Blu Ray unit. Eventually he had to plug the Blu Ray directly into the tv.

    2. defiler

      Re: how many people buy the new cable before … bought the new TV

      Personally, HDMI ARC has been absolutely fine. Samsung telly with an Onkyo amp, just works. Very occasionally the picture will drop out for a couple of seconds whilst it renegotiates or shovels more coal in or whatever, but that's maybe once every few weeks.

      ARC has had zero issues on my kit.

      CEC has one issue. The telly sleeps very lightly and sometimes screams a "yoohoo!" down the cable, firing up the amp. That said, I've had the same issue with a Raspberry Pi and a Panasonic telly in the bedroom, leading to much broken sleep.

      Computers, eh? Still, if they all just worked, most of us would be out of a job.

  10. ratfox
    Angel

    It's aspirational

    You buy the cable dreaming for the moment you'll actually have a TV that needs it.

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: It's aspirational

      and wait even longer for content worth watching

  11. talk_is_cheap

    With the Audio Quest Diamond HDMI Cable - 5.0 Meter down to just £3,000 on Amazon I wonder what price they will try charging for the latest standard?

    1. Spacedinvader
      WTF?

      I thought you were taking the piss

      https://www.amazon.com/WireWorld-Platinum-Starlight-Cable-Meter/dp/B00KY2NKCO/ref=pd_sbs_23_3?_encoding=UTF8&psc=1&refRID=9DMFM721P4PN50Z8HWSH

      DAYUM! The comments tho XD

  12. Haku
    Holmes

    Higher bandwidth cable costs more than standard bandwidth cable.

    News at 11.

  13. Steve Todd

    Why exactly do you need 8K on a home TV?

    Full sized cinema screens are using 4K quite happily. You'll struggle to see the difference (other than for changes like HDR) between 2K and 4K on anything smaller than about 50" screens, and even then you'll need to be closer than normal.

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: Why exactly do you need 8K on a home TV?

      When playing FIFA on my TV I stand about 2 feet away*. I wonder if I'd spot the difference between 4k and 8k ( I've got the original PS4, so not even 4k yet )

      * Why, you ask? I don't know. If you find out, please let me know.

    2. Nick Ryan Silver badge

      Re: Why exactly do you need 8K on a home TV?

      This is not quite true because the human eye does not have even resolution across it. We have considerably higher definition in detail in the central, focal point, than we have towards the edges of vision where we have little more than motion and light/dark sensitivity.

      As a resullt while a nomimal resolution averaged across the field of vision works, this is only true if the eye does not focus in on detail. Because the eye does focus in on detail we really need the maximum resolution across the entire range, hence just 4k/2k/whatever is not a good enough quality.

      On the other hand, the diffraction (spread) of light from a projector onto a screen and the overriding movement is more important in many ways than fine grain detail as our brains will fill in the rest of the detail in a similar way to our peripheral vision. It's when an image is still that the lack of detail is most noticeable.

    3. Fuzz

      Re: Why exactly do you need 8K on a home TV?

      Most Cinema screens are still only 2K. Even the big Imax digital screens are only 2 2K projectors stacked.

      No films are shot at 8K and even when shot at 6K they only have a 4K DI. The only films from the past that are going to benefit from 8K are ones shot on 65mm film and even then only when the lighting was perfect and the film has been kept in pristine condition.

  14. Topsyde
    Devil

    Just think of the poor folks who.......

    ...had all the smart home kit installed which transmitted the 4k signal over an Ethernet cable. To upgrade ot 8k not only new TV and Source and the expensive cable, but also rip out the old Ethernet cable to CAT8 or above that will be released to cope!

  15. MrRimmerSIR!

    Poundland

    So far, for all the short interconnects, the ones I bought from Poundland have worked perfectly well, 4k60'n'all.

  16. kain preacher

    Silly but why not just use display port ?

    1. Robert Sneddon

      HDCP?

      As far as I know DisplayPort doesn't support HDCP for DRM copy protection.

      I've got a 4k monitor, a first-generation model which only supports HDMI 1.2 = 4k at 30fps. I run it using DisplayPort for computer use (4k at 60fps) but I can't feed it from a 4k media source that outputs HDMI 1.4 or better. There don't seem to be low-cost media devices that output DisplayPort as standard.

      There are rumours of converter boxes that can accept HDMI 1.4 4k60fps singals and output via DisplayPort but they are rumours only, it appears.

      1. kain preacher

        Re: HDCP?

        According to the specs the lastest version of display port does support hdcp 2.2 display port from the begaing support hdcp 1.2. Version 1.2 of display port does hdcp 1.4

        1. Anonymous Coward
          Anonymous Coward

          Re: HDCP?

          The latest displayport CAN support HDCP but almost no displayport hardware can use it. In fact, I've never seen a displayport monitor that supports HDCP.

          The reality is that displayport was only created because of limitations in HDMI bandwidth/resolution that now no longer apply. Hopefully displayport goes away and we can settle on HDMI.

          1. Mage Silver badge
            Alert

            Re: only created because of limitations in HDMI bandwidth

            Ironic that you need 2 x DVI to match what one VGA signal can do.

            Also HD Ready TVs were sold with DVI only! They will work on HDMI with a cheap adaptor or an HDMI-DVI cable (both work FROM DVI to HDMI TV too), but NOT if there is HDCP!

            Stupid!

      2. Mage Silver badge
        Flame

        Re: HDCP?

        HDCP is an example of the evils of DRM.

        I bet it makes NO difference to piracy.

        Yet it causes problems and every consumer has to pay the royalty.

        DRM and DMCA is MORE evil than copyright infringement / piracy!

  17. pyite42

    How about adding USB?

    There must be enough bandwidth on there to fit a USB3 channel. This would be useful for remote system deployment.

  18. rh587

    how many people buy the new cable before...

    Well me for a start. I mean, I won't go out and replace perfectly good cables, but if I'm buying something and the price is about the same, then for the sake of a quid why get the old spec?

    That's the reason I've been wiring my house with Cat 6 as I renovate. I have no intention of running 10GigE over it any time soon, but the price differential from 5e to 6 is non-existent, so why use the older spec?

    1. Yet Another Anonymous coward Silver badge

      Re: how many people buy the new cable before...

      Because the cable difference between 5e and 6 is negligible - what makes it a certified cat6 installation is the quality of the connections . So unless you followed all the cat6 guidelines for connection length, cable routing and plugs/sockets - you have cat 5e anyway (if you're lucky)

  19. Lennart Sorensen

    Article is wrong

    Well the article is wrong. You will need a new cable to use HDMI 2.1's new higher resolution and refresh rate. Your existing cables are fine for VRR, eARC, dynamic HDR and the other features that are not using the new higher resolutions. Only the higher resolutions require the new 48Gbps capability, which is the only thing that requires new cables. Since every feature in HDMI 2.1 is optional, a device that implements just one of them can call itself HDMI 2.1 and it doesn't have to be the 48Gbps feature.

    So for the features that might actually be relevant anytime soon for most of us, existing 2.0 compatible cables are fine.

    A cable meant for 1.4 might handle 2.0 in some cases, and it might also fail at the edge cases (when you go pushing the full 18Gbps, not just 12 or 15) in the case of 10 bit HDR at 60Hz 4k resolution. Fortunately premium certified cables can be bought for about $5 and work great for HDMI 2.0 stuff.

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: Article is wrong

      Maybe they'll do like USB and create a superultrawhizzyfast designation for the 48 Gbps capable cables.

      I wouldn't worry about it, you aren't going to own anything that outputs or displays 8K anytime this decade.

  20. Jonathan 27

    This is probably going to sound like a stupid question, but why bother with HDMI at all? DisplayPort already supports all of these new HDMI features and has no royalty cost. It seems silly to have develop two different standards like this.

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      The royalties are not that significant if you make a lot of them (over 10,000 units a year), use the HDMI trademark properly (down to 5c/unit) and implement HDCP (4c/unit). I don't know exactly who is in control of HDMI, but I suspect content producers are part of this group, and they'd have incentive to implement it to protect their content.

      In any event, they don't have to pay the royalty for "already-paid" HDMI stuff thrown in with other HDMI stuff (in this case, the cable would be covered already if bundled with the TV).

    2. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      HDMI came first, so if two is too many why should HDMI be the one to go away?

    3. Mage Silver badge

      Re: DisplayPort

      Hardly anything in movie/TV land is DisplayPort. Apple gear. Lenovo USED to have it, but do HDMI now instead.

      The non-PC user is HDMI only, or in Europe ancient SCART, or USA Component. Analogue mini-DIN Y/C is rare, but I've never ever seen DisplayPort except on Apple monitors and laptops.

      Even my phone and tablet has HDMI.

  21. PhilipN Silver badge

    So what else is new?

    Remember SCSi cables? How ridiculously expensive? And how you NEVER seemed to have the right one?

    Got a box full somewhere - and parallel and serial and etc etc* - which may come in useful "one day".

    * Not forgetting a plethora of gender changers

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