back to article US judge orders Sci-Hub be excised from the internet

A US judge has ruled that world+dog must help block Sci-Hub, a publisher of scientific texts, which will likely result in protracted battles with Internet companies over their responsibility for copyright infringement. The block order [PDF] was handed down late last week by Judge Leonie Brinkema of the Eastern District Court …

  1. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    Scientific publishers, through the Association of American Publishers, in Nature, and in Science, have welcomed the decision.

    Many (but certainly not all!) scientific publishers are just leeches on the body of science, profiting from the work of scientists and researchers - most of which they do not pay for.

    Elsevier is the the prime example of such parasite, operating with a nearly 40% profit margin and an annual revenue of over $2bn.

    There are also ethical and responsible scientific publishers - for example American Physical Society, AAAS and the Royal Society of Chemistry - which try to provide a service to their community, rather than making a quick buck.

    As long as elseviers of the world continue to exist and hold a large fraction of our accumulated technical, medical, and scientific knowledge to ransom, so will sci-hubs - which are just the other side of the same coin.

    Unfortunately, sci-hub also ends up hurting the responsible publishers. Because they are operating on much thinner margins than the scalpers, they may not be able to survive the damage - so the end result may be opposite of what sci-hub founders (presumably) intended.

    In the end, most of our scientific knowledge has been paid for by the public - ie by all of us - so we need to find a way of making it available as widely as possible, while still somehow paying for its dissemination, maintenance, and conservation. Neither Elsevier's not the sci-hub's models appear to be the right answer.

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Meh

      most of our scientific knowledge has been paid for by the public

      In the end, most of our scientific knowledge has been paid for by the public - ie by all of us - so we need to find a way of making it available as widely as possible, while still somehow paying for its dissemination, maintenance, and conservation. Neither Elsevier's not the sci-hub's models appear to be the right answer.

      Most of our scientific knowledge has been paid for twice, in fact. The first time to do it and the second time for other researchers to have access to it (and the public don't get access to it).

      I am wondering just how much it costs to publish a scientific journal, given that you don't have to pay for the copy or for the peer reviewers, and the authors are usually expected to do their own layout. So you need a web server with some backup strategy, a couple of high level editors, and someone to liaise with the peer reviewers. All it requires is that academia goes the last mile in the research process and take on responsibility for dissemination.

      1. Paul Kinsler

        Re: Most of our scientific knowledge has been paid for twice, in fact.

        It may be that what you think you paid for, and what you /actually/ paid for differs. There's an interesting discussion from 2014 lurking here -

        https://forums.theregister.co.uk/forum/containing/2097675

      2. Rafael #872397

        Re: I am wondering just how much it costs to publish a scientific journal

        So you need a web server with some backup strategy, a couple of high level editors, and someone to liaise with the peer reviewers.

        You don't really need all this. Publish or perish allowed all this to happen, and I don't see a fix.

        1. bombastic bob Silver badge
          Devil

          Re: I am wondering just how much it costs to publish a scientific journal

          there are a lot of free web services where you can publish things...

          worst case, just post it to a USENET newsgroup. Or create a 'pastebin' with the text in it. Or put it on a github.io web site. See, i fixed it!

          all it would cost you is your time

    2. dcolley511

      Speaking as an academic...

      I'm very new to academia, and right now am segueing from a database-oriented career. I've just published my first paper, and I am astonished at how the process works - essentially, the conference charges the University a fee for attendance and publication. The publishers then charge the conference a fee to accept and publish the papers in their catalogues. Elsevier then *charge the University again* for their students/faculty to access the papers!

      The only winners here are the publishers, with everyone else footing the bill. I'd like to publish open-source, but there's very few conferences/journals in my area that support this.

      Why can't we have a central, open-access hub, perhaps crowd-funded (think the Patreon/KS) or funded by donations (Wikipedia), that supports search and interfaces with search engines like Google? Conferences could charge lower fees, output from conferences/journals could be sent to the hub, and journals could be funded e.g. by University consortiums. Whatever else is wrong with this idea, it must be better than what we're doing right now.

      1. DropBear

        Re: Speaking as an academic...

        Paid access to scientific studies needs to die. No compromises.

  2. LiarLiarLiar
    FAIL

    court says Google can safely ignore Canadian search ban

    https://www.theregister.co.uk/2017/11/03/us_court_google_canada_block/

    1. james 68

      Re: court says Google can safely ignore Canadian search ban

      Yes, and watch how quickly they'll throw their toys outta the pram when it starts happening in the other direction.

      Should be a good show, I'll spring for beer if you bring the popcorn.

    2. bombastic bob Silver badge
      Pirate

      Re: court says Google can safely ignore Canadian search ban

      does China or Russia have a search engine that accepts english-language queries?

      just wonderin'

      1. John Brown (no body) Silver badge

        Re: court says Google can safely ignore Canadian search ban

        "does China or Russia have a search engine that accepts english-language queries?"

        Google.cn? Google.ru? Google.co.uk? Who knows how Google and other US based search engines will handle this. Currently, AFAIK, they geoblock their search results if there are local restrictions.

      2. southen bastard

        Re: court says Google can safely ignore Canadian search ban

        Yes

      3. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        Re: court says Google can safely ignore Canadian search ban

        does China or Russia have a search engine that accepts english-language queries?

        Certainly. Yandex.com offers English as one of the options for its interface, and very happily accept quiries in English. Baidu.com also accepts English searches (try searching for "bombastic bob" on it - the results are quite entertaining, if not very useful), but does not offer an interface in English.

      4. katrinab Silver badge

        Re: court says Google can safely ignore Canadian search ban

        yandex.ru

        It is in Russian, but if you type sci-hub in the search box, you do get an English link as the second result.

  3. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    Sanity check

    Publishers like Elsevier are not responsible about the science they put out, I came across one of their journals which was dedicated to "peer" reviewed fringe medicine where the peers were the fringe nutter community themselves. Apparently it is far from alone.

    For them to shut down genuine science dissemination, while charging a small fortune for the privilege of corrupting science, is outrageous. They are the ones who need taking off-air.

    1. beast666

      Re: Sanity check

      Loads of their journals are also dedicated to "pal" reviewed climate science mumbo-jumbo with the associated eco-loon community too.

      It is indeed outrageous.

      Sci-Hub FTW

    2. nijam Silver badge

      Re: Sanity check

      > ... not responsible about the science they put out ...

      They also engage in the pernicious practice of bundling subscriptions. E.g. a University Library wants a journal subscription to something such as a highly-regarded astrophysics journal, and find that they also have to pay for half a dozen less "relevant" (OK, I mean "reputable") titles like "Marxist Farmer's Studies" or "Homeopathy-Based Methods in Tax Avoidance". (Sorry, made those up... at least, I hope I did. But the point stands.)

      1. katrinab Silver badge
        Coat

        Re: Sanity check

        The first one is called “Agrarian Marxism: The Journal of Peasant Studies”

        The second one does appear to be made up, though I suppose you would avoid tax on homeopathy by registering it as a religion.

  4. jake Silver badge

    I wonder ...

    ... how many copies of Sci-Hub have just been mirrored all over the 'net, thanks to Judge Leonie Brinkema's lack of understanding of even the concept of what she is ruling on?

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: I wonder ...

      How long until it appears on The Pirate Bay?

      1. Uncle Slacky Silver badge
        Pirate

        Re: I wonder ...

        There's a .onion site for it: scihub22266oqcxt.onion

  5. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    If we start making knowledge free...

    ... then we risk an educated and informed public.

    How the hell are they supposed to become stupid and manageable if you do that!

    1. This post has been deleted by its author

  6. Barche

    Nothing about the @scihubot Telegram bot, luckily.

  7. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    What weight is Scientific paper and will my HP take it?

    It's the black multi function printer with the scanner MPF-73.. something.

    I've used photo but never tried scientific.

    TNX

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: What weight is Scientific paper and will my HP take it?

      Humour fail, was it too much like real replies? I'll try harder next time.

  8. mark l 2 Silver badge

    appears to be living here https://sci-hub.cc/

  9. x 7

    ACS are leeches

    the cost of accessing ChemAbs online is extortionate

  10. Frederic Bloggs

    As usual: the US wants extra terrestrial power, but no-one else's applies to them

    The hypocrisy is breathtaking. Here we have a judge ordering a complete shutdown of a website all over the world, yet when a Canadian judge orders Google (et al) to remove links to content, it goes to a US court to argue that it doesn't apply outside Canada.

    1. bombastic bob Silver badge
      Pirate

      Re: As usual: the US wants extra terrestrial power, but no-one else's applies to them

      "the US wants extra terrestrial power"

      just a few judges and politicans want those things (and act like hypcrites, as correctly observed). the rest of us just don't care, and will scoff at such "laws"

      1. jake Silver badge

        Re: As usual: the US wants extra terrestrial power, but no-one else's applies to them

        Who are you, and what have you done with the real bob?

  11. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    not blocked in the UK

    https://sci-hub.cc

  12. adam payne

    Different side of the pond, different laws.

    Your ruling means nothing over here.

    1. nijam Silver badge

      > Different side of the pond, different laws.

      > Your ruling means nothing over here.

      Until someone draws our government's attention to it.

  13. Potemkine! Silver badge

    Having a free access to Science and Education?

    Really shocking in the country venerating the Golden Calf!

    Right to Education? Only if you can pay for it!

    1. bombastic bob Silver badge
      Facepalm

      Re: Having a free access to Science and Education?

      "Right to Education? Only if you can pay for it!"

      just don't make ME pay for anything beyond high school.

      Gummint schools are highly overrated anyway. It's why "the rich" (and many not-so-rich) still send their kids to a "pay for it" school. And _STILL_ get taxed to pay for the gummint one.

      [don't get me wrong, public school done right is a GOOD thing. I'm just sick of the kind of 'education' they're doing these days. details off topic, and you'll just down vote me regardless]

      icon, because, facepalm

      1. John Brown (no body) Silver badge

        Re: Having a free access to Science and Education?

        "Gummint schools are highly overrated anyway. It's why "the rich" (and many not-so-rich) still send their kids to a "pay for it" school. And _STILL_ get taxed to pay for the gummint one."

        Yeah, damned communismsocialism! Only the people who use the services should pay for them. Bugger the social good of the country as a whole. Pay as you go roads too!

        1. Jtom

          Re: Having a free access to Science and Education?

          You have a poor understanding of socialism. Under socialism, only government-run schools could exist. Having programs that benefit everyone (roads, schools, libraries, parks, police, military, etc) and is paid for by everyone is not socialism.

  14. OffBeatMammal

    authors should simply publish direct to Sci-Hub and let the parasite publishers die...

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      authors should simply publish direct to Sci-Hub and let the parasite publishers die...

      If you don't mind not publishing in a formal peer-reviewed journal - which is OK for some scientific disciplines - there is a perfectly well-established and higly-respected alternative, which does not carry the sci-hub's baggage and has a considerably higher life expectancy.

      It is the pre-print archive at arxiv.org

  15. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    It's Just Capitalism

    Fundamentally, Capitalism is about owning the means of production and charging a fee for its use. You can't produce a widget without the instructions. So the crafty entrepreneur tries to own every instruction sheet possible.

    If the scientific publishing industry follows the example of the music publishing industry they will soon own the scientist.

    1. katrinab Silver badge

      Re: It's Just Capitalism

      Government granted monopolies are the complete opposite of capitalism.

      The whole point of capitalism is that you can compete with existing players in the market, and by doing so, you bring the cost down to the marginal cost of production.

      The is feudalism, not capitalism.

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