back to article Manchester firm shut down for pretending to be Google

A Brit biz masquerading as Google to "sell" a free business listing service has wound up in the High Court. Manchester-based Movette falsely represented itself as Google when selling its service to manage the online "Google My Business" listings of its customers. The company was incorporated in September 2013 and charged a …

  1. Pen-y-gors

    More scum

    There are some very unpleasant scum in the world. Doing time in a cell with Big Brian should be reserved for violent offenders, but 10,000 hours community service clearing landmines in the Falklands might be appropriate.

    1. cortland

      Re: More scum

      Just herding sheep should do.

    2. Rich 11

      Re: More scum

      Doing time in a cell with Big Brian

      Are you proposing prison rape again? That's the second time today. Please, do tell us: why the obsession?

      1. psychonaut

        Re: More scum

        big brian is his pet name for his penis, as in big brian and the wild twins.

        well, maybe,.

      2. Pen-y-gors

        Re: More scum

        @Rich 11

        Are you proposing prison rape again? That's the second time today. Please, do tell us: why the obsession?

        Shame on you - typical libtard clinging to stereotypes that anyone in chokey called 'Big Brian' is a homosexual rapist. In fact, the Big Brian I was thinking of was a former neighbour. Only 4'11" but with a heart as big as the Fens. Hence the name. He was an accountant who collected stamps and did a lot of charity work. Unfortunately his big heart was his downfall. While doing the books for a local rich bastard he decided that starving children in Africa deserved the money more than the rich bastard. He's now doing 5 years.

        And I'm concerned for anyone who would have to share a cell with him - he talks incessantly about his collection of pre-1900 German stamps and the fascinating printing errors on them. 5 minutes of it is too much - 5 years though? There's not a jury would convict.

    3. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: More scum

      you are "Big Brian" and I claim my £10

      12" of surprise justice for all

  2. Martin Summers Silver badge

    "He said the IS is urging any business which is contacted by cold-call and invited to sign up for a Google My Business listing to make full enquiries into the service being offered before entering into any agreement."

    And that's all it takes really. I've not met many business owners who are ever happy to part with cash for anything, even if it is a benefit to them. So I think they can only have been struck dumb by the power of 'Google'.

    General rule of thumb, don't just give money to people who ask for it over the phone.

    1. Doctor Syntax Silver badge

      General rule of thumb, don't just give money to people who ask for it over the phone.

      "I'll need a purchase order number."

      "No, sorry, it's company policy. I just work here."

      "Sorry, I can't give out that information. Data protection."

      You just need a counter-script script.

      1. Rich 11

        You just need a counter-script script.

        Caller: "Am I speaking to Mr X? My name is Dave. How are you today, sir?"

        Me (reading from counter-script script): "Fuck off and get a proper job." *slam*

        1. Lee D Silver badge

          I once had a guy ring, greet me, spend ten minutes talking about the football (there was some tournament or other one, I don't care, I never follow it).

          I just let him keep going because he lost any sale in the first 5 seconds anyway, by pretending to know me to the switchboard, asking for me by name "I was talking to Lee, can you put me through" when he's never spoken to me in my life, then saying to me that the lady in the front office (he gave her name too) had given him my details (strange, because I was standing in that same office when they put the call through to me, and no such exchange happened), etc. etc. etc. But he literally talked about random junk for 10 minutes, as if I was his best friend.

          The phone call ended with "I don't really care, mate, I'm not the one trying to sell. And you'd lied within the first 5 seconds of this call, so why would I do business with you? Oh, by the way, I hate football".

          But as soon as they talk about something random, which is not what normal people do, I knew it was a sales call that I didn't want. People who want to sell to me, who actually do business with me, phone up and say "Hey, I was just calling because we have this new product" or whatever. Straight in, maybe "How are you?" but that's just politeness, but "this is why I'm phoning." If you are avoiding telling me why you're phoning, I don't want you to phone.

          Even better is when they claim to have done business with me, I tell them I'm new, and they say something like "Oh, you bought some stuff from us last year". Strange that. I've been here years, and you didn't know me and I've never bought anything from you.

          1. Peter2 Silver badge

            I have a fierce, and occasionally stressed receptionist who has my written authority to take out any anger or frustration she has on salespeople who try and bluff their way through reception to me.

            She finds it quite theruputic, apparently. (although i'm not convinced salesdroids do) It's certainly effective at sharply reducing the number of calls (and in person callers) I get.

        2. jeffdyer

          Guaranteed way to get your phone spammed at 3AM.

          1. Anonymous Coward
            Anonymous Coward

            They can do what they like at 3am I won't be in the office to hear it.

        3. Captain Scarlet
          Thumb Up

          You just need a counter-script script.

          I imagine this more satisfying than waiting for the obvious click before I slam the phone down.

          Now I am tempted to improve upon this by adding background noises (Such as any old horror movie)

        4. Doctor Syntax Silver badge

          Me (reading from counter-script script): "Fuck off and get a proper job." *slam*

          There you are, then. No public spirit. No effort to waste time they could spend looking for someone more vulnerable.

    2. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      I've possibly been called by these fraudsters but they will have been dealt with in the same casual manner as everyone else. When I get a call for anything to do with bills for someone asking for money I don't just hang up. Instead I tell them that they need to speak to our head office in the USA as all such matters are handled there. I've had people tell me that they need to speak to X who was the previous manager "and used to deal with this" which I know isn't true. The most persistent was a scam around registration at Companies House which came first in a letter with tiny small print saying it wasn't related to Companies House. Then someone called saying that we hadn't paid the invoice we'd been sent and to do so quickly please. I told him that the letter was with our in house legal team in the USA and not to worry they'd be hearing something shortly. He insisted we were a UK business to which I replied that we were bought by a large billion dollar US conglomerate a few years ago which ended the call quickly.

      As soon as I mention the US most people bugger off very quickly but not all of them. Some ask for the phone number and for a name to call in the USA which gets them the fax number and "I'm sorry I don't know who deals with these things".The last one was on Monday when someone called to discuss our Energy contract and I suspected them from the start. They claimed to be our energy supplier to begin with until I clarified this by saying I had the number for their department I just need your name to speak to you as I'll have to call you back. "Ah well we're working with your energy suppliers so not actually in the same building on the same number". Then I asked whether this was for the gas, electricity or both and he said both. Big mistake as we don't have gas so they're obviously nothing to do with our supplier. They lost interest after I mentioned head office.

  3. cortland

    They COULD have just googled the fraudster.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Google_(verb)

  4. wolfetone Silver badge
    Holmes

    I wonder if this fraudulent "Google" paid it's taxes?

    1. katrinab Silver badge

      No, on the last set of accounts they filed, they claimed the only thing the company had was £1 of unpaid share capital.

      1. wolfetone Silver badge

        Just like real Google then.

  5. Lysenko

    I'm surprised there actually were any victims. I thought the Lads from Lagos would have cleaned out anyone with this level of gullibility years ago!

    1. Gordon Pryra

      The lads from Lagos..

      Sadly the average person still has zero idea what is and what isn't "the internet"

      The scams are many and followed through relentlessly, even going to the point where people get telephone calls from "bailiffs"

      Whats obvious to you is far from obvious to some bricks and mortar company who have their website up to provide confirmation of their location and a little bit of free advertising from the organic listings.

      These people are fair game to the sharks.

      This company will just be wound up and the directors will walk away with the profits they have already stripped.

      They will just start again under a new name

      1. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        Re: The lads from Lagos..

        They will just start again under a new name

        In the short term perhaps. But the Insolvency Service aren't a toothless tiger like Ofcom, they do investigate, they happily disqualify crooked directors (circa 600 so far this year). And once disqualified, the crooks can't be a director, can't be involved with forming companies, running them, or undertaking marketing. Breach the terms of a ban, and its chokey time. The INsolvency Service have their own criminal investigation team.

        It's a real pity that the ICO don't work more closely with the Insolvency Service, because it seems like they deal with too many fraudsters who evade the penatlies of the ICO. Setting the Insolvency Service on these people would be a really good idea.

        1. Mark Ruit

          Re: The lads from Lagos..

          And once disqualified, the crooks can't be a director, can't be involved with forming companies, running them, or undertaking marketing

          Which is just what the IS had already done to the 'board' of the first iteration of this business scamshop: all one of him. Barred for 11 years IIRC.

          Like WHOIS, Companies House 'tells you more'. In this case, more than appears in the article. That on the BBC had more information!

      2. Doctor Syntax Silver badge

        Re: The lads from Lagos..

        "They will just start again under a new name"

        TFA states plainly that they are disbarred from acting as directors and breaking that will be a criminal offence Not a company criminal offence but a personal one.

        Why this sanction isn't more often used I don't know.

  6. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    I would of paid...

    ...if they could stop them trying to CONSTANTLY change the fucking details! Seriously how many times do I have to edit the details.

    Just checked today, yet another recommended incorrect update.

  7. Version 1.0 Silver badge

    Rampant in the US

    We get a call every single day from "Google needing to update your business listing" - always a spoofed phone number so blocking them each time does nothing. How come, if the NSA, GCHQ etc are able to monitor all phone calls in the world, nobody can shut these people down?

    1. TonyJ

      Re: Rampant in the US

      ..."How come, if the NSA, GCHQ etc are able to monitor all phone calls in the world, nobody can shut these people down?..."

      For the very same reason German U-boat "wolf packs" were allowed to continue to target merchant shipping during WWII, after the British cracked the codes used by Enigma - once you reveal your hand, you're holding no cards.

      By not getting involved in the petty low-end criminality, it still makes the world uncertain of what the various agencies around the world are, or are not, capable of.

    2. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: Rampant in the US

      Because it is a service not a "bug". Caller ID spoofing is done by using the legitimate caller ID changing options that the companies often pay for (though arguably, sometimes don't pay for, but use anyway).

      If the phone company stopped these spoof calls, they would also be cutting off a large revenue stream.

      1. Donn Bly

        Re: Rampant in the US

        Intentionally making false statements (such as fake caller id) for the purposes of getting something to which you are not entitled (my money, my business, or even my time) is already fraud.

        I don't advocate having the company stop the call - they have insufficient information to make a fraud determination - but I do advocate holding companies responsible for facilitating criminal activity. If there were any teeth in that, the legitimate voip providers wouldn't let clients pick whatever number they wanted to display on outgoing calls, or might actually monitor their own networks and when the same client makes repeated calls with different numbers it should throw up a flag.

        The most prevalent nuisance calls around here right now are from fake travel companies, calling from spoofed numbers in the same npa-nxx as the target victim so that the intended victim thinks it is a local call - and more than once I have had to explain to people that no, the number on the caller id isn't accurate and that I didn't call them.

        1. Anonymous Coward
          Anonymous Coward

          Re: Rampant in the US

          Actually, you don't even need to cover them for fraud. These companies cycle through the phone numbers on caller ID with fake/local numbers. So rather easy to spot a REAL fraud, as no legitimate business needs to cycle current in use numbers to businesses they don't own, numbers not used/issued or every day/call.

          But as said, this would take away a large revenue stream. It's not to the scale of a shop selling knives, but it is one to a shop say... selling lots and lots of exactly 6 foot long rugs.

      2. peterrr

        Re: Rampant in the US

        Additionally, the telco on the receiving end of a call in the United States pays a lookup fee to the originating provider for caller ID name data. The shadier telcos split this "CNAM dip" revenue with clients that have a high volume of outbound calls.

        tl;dr: Even if you don't answer the call, these assholes still make money.

  8. Mage Silver badge
    Devil

    SEO/Domain Registration scams.

    Fake SEO invoices using WhoIs suggesting your Domain is going to expire.

    It's time that WhoIs info is only available by warrant and not to random members of the public.

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: SEO/Domain Registration scams.

      I had a similar one the other day, turned out to be from a search engine optimisation company.

      Had to check my cpanel to make sure. It nearly had me!

      1. Doctor Syntax Silver badge

        Re: SEO/Domain Registration scams.

        "I had a similar one the other day, turned out to be from a search engine optimisation company."

        They're easily identified by the fact that they never have their own website that can be easily found by searching for "first page on google" - purely so you can check their abilities of course.

        If I've nothing to do I sometimes reply politely pointing out that they seem to have omitted that and, by further, oversight, have used gmail rather than their own domain. I then run through the rest of their mail pointing out the bad grammar and asking why anyone would want to put their own reputation in the hands of someone so sloppy when making a pitch. I assume they're pleased with their English prowess although it's possible they bought the email text along with their cheap spam list.

    2. Doctor Syntax Silver badge

      Re: SEO/Domain Registration scams.

      "It's time that WhoIs info is only available by warrant and not to random members of the public."

      ????

      Whois is one of the first lines of defence of the public against these scammers.

  9. Anonymous Coward
    Facepalm

    "I... gave in"

    I've heard people say they went to Sky because "BT kept calling saying I had to pay more"... well, um, I don't think that was "BT". But it's hilarious their solution was to go to Sky, so now the phone calls for "your BT line/email/account needs to be unlocked/pay extra" falls on obvious "scam" alarms.

    Now to move them over to Linux to stop the "Your Microsoft Windows PC has a virus" (I may loose count on the number of times they have had to do claimbacks on the CC for that one).

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: "I... gave in"

      I love the calls from 'BT' . They try to tell me there is a fault with my Internet (?) and that they will have to cut me off, clearly trying to shake a payment out to 'fix' it. Asking them if its a copper fault or is the problem with the DSLAM, have a high number of CRC errors been observed etc. usually elicits ' errr.. your internet is faulty, we cut it off'.

  10. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    Speaking of fraudsters…

    Here in one of the colonies I regularly get physical mail from some outfit (often in eastern Europe) offering to "register" my trademark in a directory of trademarks. Fees are usually in the thousands in exchange for being a "directory" of people who were too stupid to realize that it's just a directory of stupid people.

    If I had the dosh, I'd spring for a listing in the directory, if only to acquire a list of gullible business administrators with a modicum of cash and a shortage of brains.

  11. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    The reason there are 'phone abuses...

    ....are because people in your country are getting a cut of the profits.

    If the telco was required to pay back fraud losses due to them allowing the abuse of their system then you can bet it would disappear overnight.

    As to restricting WHOIS info, this is information public domain as it should be, if you cannot keep track of your domains then perhaps you should employ someone who can.

  12. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    Fake invoice scam (been around forever)

    Nothing new!

    A company sends out what looks like an invoice, but actually is an order form. Some gullible accounts payable droid dutifully pays the invoice and you "get what you pay for", a listing in some directory that nobody uses.

    On another note, my wife (a non practicing physician) gets all sorts of calls about her "practice", and I as "office manager" handle all of these with the respect they deserve (none), and tell off lots of people who are trying to sell things. One is updating of credit card terminals. Yes, there are all sorts of "helpful" people out there who are more than willing to accept your hard earned cash for doing nothing valuable AT ALL.

    Next see: Windows support scams, and IRS tax scams.

    1. Doctor Syntax Silver badge

      Re: Fake invoice scam (been around forever)

      "Some gullible accounts payable droid dutifully pays the invoice"

      An accounts droid who pays out without a PO is more than gullible but downright incompetent. Hence the first response to a phone demand should be for the PO number.

  13. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    ... aaand that's why I have (mostly) false information in the WHOIS for my domain name.

    (anon because duh.)

  14. Winkypop Silver badge

    Google My Business

    Google are hard enough to deal with without these leeches climbing in and extorting money as well.

  15. Milton

    Write the app, somebody ...

    Once activated, when you have determined the call is a fraud/sales/other BS, it waits till the caller pauses and returns one of a random broad selection of recorded responses such "Just let me check", "Wait a sec", "Just waiting for my pc to boot up", "I'll ask Brenda, she's next door", "What exactly do you mean?" etc etc etc -- all designed to string the lying bastards for as long as possible and waste Thier time. I daresay an advanced version with some so-called "AI" could keep the scum on the line for ages.

    You can continue working until the app says "Done: 17 minutes of wanker's time wasted".

    1. Peb

      Re: Write the app, somebody ...

      Well there used to be such a thing

      "Anderson, who works in the telecom industry and has a better understanding of how telemarketing call-in techniques work than most, first created a call-answering robot that tricked autodialers into thinking there was an actual person answering the phone. So instead of the machine automatically hanging up after ten seconds, a simple pre-recorded “hello?, hello?” message would have the call sent to a telemarketer who would waste a few precious moments until they realized there really wasn’t anyone there."

      http://gizmodo.com/todays-hero-made-an-ai-that-annoys-telemarketers-for-as-1756344562

      1. Pen-y-gors

        Re: Write the app, somebody ...

        @Peb

        That's a nice one. Could it made more effective by extending it?

        Hello?...hello? yes, yes, pause, could you speak up, you're not very clear. No the signal's fading, I'll just go into the house...there is that any better...oh silly me, my hearing aid's turned off...now, what was that you said, yes, yes, what did you say your name was again? yes, yes, I'm not sure etc......

        All totally ignoring what's said by the scammer!

        1. Dwarf

          Re: Write the app, somebody ...

          Already been done and works very well on Asterisk

          Google for "Hello this is Lenny"

          Some recordings of the results are available on YouTube and on Reddit, Some keep the marketing people on-line for about 45 minutes

  16. david12

    Very good, there is a lot of scam on the internet. I really don't like companies which cheat or just don't say the truth to make money.

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