back to article Trump-backed RAISE Act decoded: Points-based immigration, green cards slashed

Having decided to move on from healthcare, the Trump administration has backed proposed legislation that would markedly overhaul America's immigration process. The H-1B visa system – which tech bosses rely on to fly in foreigners to swell office ranks – isn't explicitly mentioned in the Reforming American Immigration for a …

  1. Graybyrd
    Windows

    Another flatulent outburst

    The legislation will require support from the House of Reps and Democrats in the Senate to proceed.

    The chances of Congress acting on this proposal fall between zero and nil; it's another White House distraction from the Russia investigations. Legislative support for any new White House proposals in the face of a storm of flatulent Presidential rants has diminished to a vanishing point.

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Holmes

      Actually

      Merit-based immigration reforms of some form have very broad-based support among American politicians and voters. And the high-tech companies who claim to oppose it don't really, because it benefits them if written the right way.

      Regardless, your multiple references to flatulence made for quality reading.

      1. Graybyrd
        Windows

        Re: Actually

        "Flatulent" used here to express displeasure with the winds of dishonesty wafted from the halls of the Executive Branch since January. One could have said "distaste" for endless lies, prevarications, deceptions, delusions, inventions, and endemic disrespect for truth and honor... but that's such a revolting mouthful, no? In truth, the deliberate distractions are real, and the "fake media" has yet to truly grasp the fat Gollum with the Golden Hair that defies all considerations of normal discourse and reason. The President has absolutely no concern for immigrant workers beyond playing the issue as a pawn to entice his base supporters and to distract his detractors.

        Ask the national leader of the US Boy Scouts if he did indeed call Trump to congratulate him on "the greatest speech ever" to the Scouts. (No, he didn't.) Only in the alternate reality that lives under all that hairspray was it true. Lie about the little things. Lie about the great things. Lie about all things. Lies destroy trust. Without trust, there is nothing.

        1. CrazyOldCatMan Silver badge

          Re: Actually

          President has absolutely no concern for immigrant workers

          Other than ensuring that the steady flow of low-wage peons to work in his properties.

      2. Perry the platypus

        Re: Actually

        Actually it seems very very fair and people friendly especially as it allows people to come to the USA do post grad here and then get favoritism for residency... few people realize that the existing system is a form of endemtioured labor (aka slavery) as you loose status if you leave a company unless you can get the new company to take over sponsorship... it's rumored that this gets abused with companies paying for the green card to slow the process as much as they can... and yes I went through the process as did many of my friends...

      3. martinusher Silver badge

        Re: Actually

        The current preference system for Green Cards -- immigrant visas -- dates from the 1960s and was designed to correct for the lack of diversity in immigration. It has succeeded spectacularly but with the unfortunate side effect that that skilled workers who want to immigrate to the US often have inordinately long waits to get their paperwork processed, waits of 5 years or more being common. This points system is just updating the preference system, its long overdue (although I think more weight should be given to a degree plus relevant experience).

        The ethnic imbalance caused by the 1960s changes, changes that largely favored immigrants from Asia and Central America, was the reason for creating the Diversity Lottery. This turned out to be grossly unfair -- people from the UK didn't qualify but Irish people certainly did. (I personally have worked with two people who came here via that lottery -- you'd think this would be a statistical fluke, but it turns out that 'Diversity' really means 'Irish'!)

    2. Gene Cash Silver badge

      Re: Another flatulent outburst

      > The chances of Congress acting on this proposal fall between zero and nil

      And that's actually why I voted for the bloke. I figured he'd deadlock things so hard, nothing significant would get done. I'd much rather have a government too incompetent to do anything than a government doing all the wrong things.

      1. Steve Hersey

        Re: Another flatulent outburst

        " I'd much rather have a government too incompetent to do anything than a government doing all the wrong things."

        Be careful what you wish for. What we have is a government doing deliberately evil and destructive things to great effect, while incompetent to do anything positive. Not to mention being exceedingly corrupt even by comparison with a century's worth of US administrations.

        I fail to see any sense in deliberately throwing a grenade into the works of government; it would be far better to work toward a government that furthers rational policies you agree with -- assuming that rational policies are your goal. (I've met enough folks who voted for that nutjob explicitly in order to break the government that rationality cannot be assumed here.)

        Immobilizing the government might have been relatively harmless in the 1790s, but it's a lethally bad idea in the 21st century. Drop the ball on climate change, pollution control, voter disenfranchisement, and everything to do with civil rights? Abandon all allies and threaten other nuclear-armed nutjobs? Deliberately destabilize the health insurance markets, such as they are? People will die on account of this stuff. It is indefensible.

    3. The Count

      Re: Another flatulent outburst

      Not to mention the fact this bill does not actually require Democratic support in the Senate because the Republicans hold a 52 to 48 seat majority and therefore don't require Dem support to pass bills.

      1. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        Re: Another flatulent outburst

        Not to mention the fact this bill does not actually require Democratic support in the Senate because the Republicans hold a 52 to 48 seat majority and therefore don't require Dem support to pass bills.

        Not from around here, it seems. Or maybe just another Merican ignorant of how the Senate works.

        Look up "Filibuster in the United States Senate".

        That and the fact that the Republicans range from "moderate" [sane-ish] to "tea party" [loonies], and it's hard to appeal to both ends of the spectrum. [see Obamacare repeal].

    4. Destroy All Monsters Silver badge
      Holmes

      "Muh Russia Investigations ... will yield something any time now ... any time!"

      It's another White House distraction from the Russia investigations.

      It's been about 12 months now. At this point, even Pizzagate has more raw evidence.

      Did Hillary Scapegoat Russia to Save Her Campaign?

      Yeah, that.

      1. strum

        Re: "Muh Russia Investigations ... will yield something any time now ... any time!"

        >It's been about 12 months now.

        It took two years to bring down Nixon.

  2. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    Up to 140,000 a year will be allowed in.

    Note that Canada, which has 1/10th of the US population, welcomes a bit over 50 thousand immigrants per year under the Skilled category, which this proposed system seems to be based on. 140K per year sounds like a drop in a bucket for a country this size.

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Holmes

      Re: Up to 140,000 a year will be allowed in.

      Canada also relies much more heavily on foreign workers from everything I've been reading. Similar to Germany maybe? An aging, less tech-savvy populace, so you've got to import a lot of young talent?

      1. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        Re: Up to 140,000 a year will be allowed in.

        Canada also relies much more heavily on foreign workers from everything I've been reading. Similar to Germany maybe? An aging, less tech-savvy populace, so you've got to import a lot of young talent?

        I think you will find that Canada and Germany are simply a bit more open about having to rely on foreign workers. Highly-educated and competent people with specialized skills are fairly scarce these days, so you just have to take them where you can find them. No country or race has a monopoly on smart people or on good education.

        Unless you feel like you are the great galactic empire, which is the bestest of them all, there is no need to be bashful about needing some help from outside, is there?

        1. MachDiamond Silver badge

          Re: Up to 140,000 a year will be allowed in.

          "Highly-educated and competent people with specialized skills are fairly scarce these days, so you just have to take them where you can find them."

          That's hard to believe when put along side the reports of massive student debt in the US generated by people getting degrees. It's also worth noting that companies don't train people the way they would in the past and HR departments aren't competent enough to spot when an applicant's skill set is comparable to what is being asked when it's not an exact match.

    2. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: Up to 140,000 a year will be allowed in.

      and ironically Canada is becoming one of the best educated countries on the world "despite" all those bloody foreigners.

      One of the few countries on my "places I'd consider emigrating to" list.

      1. Graybyrd
        Windows

        Re: Up to 140,000 a year will be allowed in.

        Perhaps our exclusionary-minded President should consider a northern wall along the US border with Canada, to stem the flight. BBC reports that Montreal has opened its Olympic stadium to accommodate a flood of migrants from the US, who are overwhelming available holding facilities.

        1. MachDiamond Silver badge

          Re: Up to 140,000 a year will be allowed in.

          The "migrants" flooding Canada are coming from south of the US border. President Trump has them so scared that they will be rounded up and deported that they are pressing on to Canada where they think they'll get a better deal (A free iPhone, free food, free housing and support for a large herd of kids). It's not the Hollywood elite that threatened to leave the US if Trump was elected president. Campaign promises, it appears.

      2. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        Re: Up to 140,000 a year will be allowed in.

        @Lost all faith... "Canada is becoming one of the best educated countries on the world" ....

        Wow, I find that hard to believe. I worked for a big Canadian firm for 10 years and only one of the many smart ones I met was educated in Canada.

        1. mosw

          Re: Up to 140,000 a year will be allowed in.

          "Wow, I find that hard to believe. I worked for a big Canadian firm for 10 years and only one of the many smart ones I met was educated in Canada."

          That is because a large number of the Canadians, especially in the medical and hi tech fields, end up working in the US. But we also manage to attract a lot of highly qualified immigrants.

    3. Whitter
      Boffin

      Re: Up to 140,000 a year will be allowed in.

      Note that Canada's Work Permit system requires that "the Canadian employer must first demonstrate that unsuccessful efforts were made to hire Canadian residents for the position being offered to the foreign worker".

      I'm not sure if this is "requirement" is more than political window dressing, not being a Canadian employer or employee myself!

      1. Barry Rueger

        Re: Up to 140,000 a year will be allowed in.

        The"requirement"is in fact window dressing. A Stats Canada report this week shows Tagalog as the fastest growing immigrant language group in several provinces.

        This isn't because of an influx of Filipino doctors and lawyers, it's the result of tens of thousands of minimum wage employees being flown in to work at Tim Hortons Donots and McDonalds.

        Contrast these with so-called "investor class," who buy up a random company in order to get their family in the door.

        I'm actually very pro-immigration, even for brown-skinned people, but would never suggest that Canada's immigration rules are a model to be emulated.

        1. Sherrie Ludwig

          Re: Up to 140,000 a year will be allowed in.

          "The"requirement"is in fact window dressing. A Stats Canada report this week shows Tagalog as the fastest growing immigrant language group in several provinces.

          This isn't because of an influx of Filipino doctors and lawyers, it's the result of tens of thousands of minimum wage employees being flown in to work at Tim Hortons Donots and McDonalds"

          OK, sneer at the burger-flippers, but their kids will be eating your kid's lunch. The people who immigrate may not be the best educated, but they came because they saw a better chance for their kids. They push them and work like crazy for them. They are flipping burgers, doing some side business like hairdressing or housecleaning, and saving up to be better or have better for their future. As a second generation USAian, my family valued education, and instilled a work ethic that says you do any honest job that pays or start your own business (sometimes both) to keep thriving.

      2. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        Re: Up to 140,000 a year will be allowed in.

        I'm not sure if this is "requirement" is more than political window dressing, not being a Canadian employer or employee myself!

        I am, and most of the time it is.

  3. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    Translation

    "This is not the right proposal to fix our immigration system"

    Translation: This is not delivering the cheap slave labour we need.

    IMO, any immigration system that puts educational census requirements on spouse and most importantly parent import is the right choice. This will stop the import of mother in-law with a "son in law development plan" which can be formulated in one sentence "My son in law will be a manager, so I can proudly cart him around the village". I have seen more than one good engineer degenerate into a lousy greasy pole climber under such in-law and spouse directions, so anything preventing that is a good idea in my book.

  4. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    "...but it will restore the sacred bonds of trust between America and its citizens," said President Donald Trump."

    It will take a lot more than this to do that.

    1. Don Dumb
      Thumb Up

      @AC - "It will take a lot more than this to do that."

      But this is called the Reforming American Immigration for a Strong Economy Act. Any politician that votes against reforming American immigration for a strong economy must be a traitor to the American people.

      Yes, I do find the habit of using silly naming as a pathetic attempt to blackmail legislators into support very childish.

  5. John Smith 19 Gold badge
    Unhappy

    "Nor will the H-2B visa system, which the President uses to staff his resorts"

    Should tell you exactly all you need to know about the prime goals of such "reform"

    But the fact it's p**sing off Google and FB is a good thing.

    As for "consensus" in Congress only in America, where the Republican party has an absolute majority in both houses (y'known, like Teresa May had, before she called the unnecessary election and the British public discovered she won the internal Conservative power struggle by being the unity candidate IE a personality free chatbot) would you still need this to be the case before you can get legislation passed.

  6. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    This isn't a terrible idea

    The main problem many will have is cutting the number of immigrants down, but that's something a lot of conservatives have run on so it was to be expected. If you ignore that part of it I think the points system is the right way to do it. Obviously you can quibble with it in terms of what 'x' should be worth, and I think it would work better if there was a threshold of points above which we'll take anyone who wants to come instead of having quotas, but other than that it is a good start.

    The salary thing is rather like what I've been saying for years we should do to fix the H1B, except I'd link it to percentages of the average salary in a given location. 300% of the median US salary is a lot less than 300% the median salary in San Francisco or Manhattan. The H1B is terrible in all ways - it lowers salaries of tech workers, is a gigantic pain for companies to bring in employees, and removes the freedom of H1B workers to seek a better job without losing their green card.

    From what I hear on the news (the "fake news" for you Trumpists) the bill as it stands has no chance of passing congress, but if they took away the hard limits and made them point limits, and tweaked the points, If expanded to cover more cases, it could simplify US immigration policy by subsuming a bunch of different <letter><number><dash><letter> coded programs into one via the points system. If it makes it more expensive for Trump to import maids for his resorts...well boo fucking hoo!

    1. naive

      Re: This isn't a terrible idea

      It is indeed quite probable that the thralls, who were assigned by the one-percenters to populate the Senate, will vote this down like they did with oDummer-Care.

      1. Don Dumb
        Facepalm

        Re: This isn't a terrible idea

        @naive - "oDummer-Care"

        That's a wonderful play on words, you must be really proud.

        1. Barry Rueger

          Re: This isn't a terrible idea

          That's a wonderful play on words, you must be really proud.

          Hey, a little respect! He's also the guy who coined "Windoze."

        2. Anonymous Coward
          Anonymous Coward

          Re: This isn't a terrible idea

          The hard right seems to think name calling is really fashionable. Even before Trump started coming up with nicknames for all those he hated like 'low energy Jeb', 'Pocahontas', etc. they came up with a million ways to think they're clever with stuff like Obummer, OBAKA (not sure why they capitalize that one, maybe it stands for something) and of course their favorite, 'Killary'.

          I guess this is the height of what passes for intellectualism on Breitbart's message boards or something.

  7. Gordon Pryra

    "Sacred bonds of trust between America and its citizens"

    You know they are just taking the piss when they being out this sort of crap.

    Did he keep a straight face when he said it?

    1. CrazyOldCatMan Silver badge

      Re: "Sacred bonds of trust between America and its citizens"

      Did he keep a straight face when he said it?

      In the universe inside his head (why am I getting flashbacks to Rimmer-world?) he probably believes it's true.

  8. James 51

    Does he know that countries with points based systems are usually trying to boost the numbers of people coming in?

  9. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    If you get 50 points

    You're automatically through to the swimsuit round with an opportunity to meet the President in the changing room.

  10. Anonymous Coward
    Trollface

    Should have called it FLACCID...

    Foreigners Leaving America and Coming to Canada InsteaD

    1. Alistair
      Coat

      Re: Should have called it FLACCID...

      @ Malle-Herbert:

      Might just explain why they're deploying the Big O en Montreal as an immigration checkpoint.

      1. MachDiamond Silver badge

        Re: Should have called it FLACCID...

        "Might just explain why they're deploying the Big O en Montreal as an immigration checkpoint."

        Canada doesn't want a load of non-english speaking (or French) unskilled laborers clogging up their system either.

    2. John Smith 19 Gold badge
      Coat

      " Should have called it FLACCID... "

      Anyone want to have a go at "FLOPPY" ?

  11. Unicornpiss
    FAIL

    I'm sure..

    ..that whatever the original intention is, that if it comes from his administration, that it will be needlessly cruel, poorly-implemented, and breathtakingly idiotic, and that the people in charge of making it happen will turn over several times as they walk out or get fired.

    1. SouthernLogic

      Re: I'm sure..

      What a hater. This admin has done many things that have helped the citizens of the USA. You need to broaden your news horizons.

  12. Skizz

    Never got the Points System

    Surely, relying on a points system would mean all the best jobs go to foreigners and all the unskilled rubbish jobs go to locals because there won't be any immigrants to do the crap jobs. Wouldn't it be better to improve education and then limit skilled immigrants thus providing more high paid jobs for locals and allowing in the unskilled people to do the menial jobs?

    Am I missing something here?

    1. James 51

      Re: Never got the Points System

      In this particular scenario you need to take a look at Trump's business interests, those of his family and then the people who voted for him.

      1. RonWheeler

        Re: Never got the Points System

        He was a businessman then, president now. I think he might have spotted the change in job title along the way.

        1. James 51

          Re: Never got the Points System

          Given that he has been lining his own pockets and those of his family at every oppertunity, if he has noticed he doesn't care.

    2. a_yank_lurker

      Re: Never got the Points System

      The points system is there to keep the unskilled out. Most countries have problems with keeping their unskilled, low-skilled, and semi-skilled labor in decent paying jobs. So it makes sense to keep out as much these out as it does to get the highly skilled. Also, most skilled labor that will come in will likely be in STEM and closely related fields. Also, the overall simplification of the process will make it harder to game the system (H-1B visas for example).

      What I have seen reported indicates this is a good first step to actually getting a realistic immigration reform. But of course, the devil is in the details. As far as getting through America's Native Criminal Class (M. Twain), it depends on whether the elephants can stay together and if any donkeys sign on. The elephants theoretically could pass this as they have a majority in both houses.

  13. Nimby
    Pint

    The Information Technology Industry Council, AKA "Isn't It Ironic".

    One of the few things Steve Jobs and Bill Gates could agree on? College is for chumps. Yet look at who is complaining about not having enough "STEM-skilled Americans". The problem is that we've forgotten how we got where we are. Which is also true of our immigration system.

    Once upon a time America was the dumping ground of debtor prisons and escapees from oppressive religious or political states. It was a place people could come to Start Over. And we did. We made something of ourselves because we were given the opportunity to make something of ourselves. Not with pieces of paper, but with life and reality.

    Now? Bah. Good luck! No matter where you come from, American or looking to immigrate, you're just as SoL. It's a lose-lose economy bought and paid for by businesses, for businesses. Even the wild card Trumped-Up doesn't seem capable of defying it in spite of being an unpredictable Agent of Chaos.

    What I don't get is why anyone even wants to live in America anymore.

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: The Information Technology Industry Council, AKA "Isn't It Ironic".

      >We made something of ourselves because we were given the opportunity to make something of

      >ourselves

      Mostly at the expense of the incumbent natives. Remind me - how much of the country was stolen from the First Nations again?

      And yes, I know "First Nations" is a Canadian term.

      1. earl grey
        Mushroom

        Re: The Information Technology Industry Council, AKA "Isn't It Ironic".

        "Mostly at the expense of the incumbent natives. Remind me - how much of the country was stolen from the First Nations again?"

        Who took it all from the old ones who were there before them, and the ones before them, and the ones before them. this is nothing new and has been going on for thousands of years. stop acting like it's something that "just happened yesterday" and "oh, we're so bad" because we're just the latest group.

        1. Pascal Monett Silver badge
          Thumb Down

          @earl grey

          "stop acting like it's something that "just happened yesterday" and "oh, we're so bad" because we're just the latest group."

          Really ? Because you're not the first, it's not so bad ?

          Oh, and what proof do you have that Native Indians genocided another population that was there before them ?

          Congratulations on demonstrating the complete failure of the american education system.

    2. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: The Information Technology Industry Council, AKA "Isn't It Ironic".

      "One of the few things Steve Jobs and Bill Gates could agree on? College is for chumps. Yet look at who is complaining about not having enough "STEM-skilled Americans""

      The issue with the US education system happens way before college gets a look in.

    3. Unicornpiss

      Re: The Information Technology Industry Council, AKA "Isn't It Ironic".

      "What I don't get is why anyone even wants to live in America anymore."

      Well, despite our fascination with guns and reality TV (look what our unwashed masses elected), it's still a (mostly) safe land with a generally high standard of living, some opportunity, and (albeit having taken a beating these days) personal liberty and freedom.

      And while our current leadership is a chaotic mess, to say the least, we at least had the choice of leaders, not that we collectively made a good one.

      In other countries a rebellion or coup would be brewing, and the instability would throw the country into chaos. (Look at Venezuela) At least in the USA, our underlying framework of 'checks and balances' is good enough to throttle Mr. Trump's more insane notions and preserve the integrity of the overall system. (at least so far)

      1. John Smith 19 Gold badge
        Unhappy

        "it's still a safe land with a.. high standard of living, some opportunity, and personal liberty"

        So much like Canada, but with more TV evangelists, mass shootings and crazy drink and sex laws?

        I think I'll go with Canada, where various interesting herbs are also to be found in the forests of BC.

  14. Anonymous Coward
    Meh

    I think a points-based system is a good idea in general.

    But I'm not in favor of the large cuts in legal immigration involved. The 150,000 cap should be doubled, and

    1) increase the salary target for H1-Bs. Specifically prevent H1-Bs from being used to replace American citizens and legal residents who aleady have jobs. Also make H1-Bs a one-year work visa, independent of an employer (no more losing your H1-B if you lose the job you were hired for serfdom)

    2) Deport illegal immigrants and enforce fines and penalties on companies that hire them

    3) Upon monitoring the workforce for bottlenecks, create temporary work visas in situation where we really need overseas labor

    1. ckm5

      Re: I think a points-based system is a good idea in general.

      Most of what you want is already the case.

      1. It's already the case an H1B can only be allocated if you can't find local talent

      2. More people were deported under Obama than any previous president

      3. Kinda like 5 year planning? That worked so well for the Soviet Union..... Besides, that actually already exists, it's called either an H2A or H2B.

      That said, I agree that an H1B should be independent of the employer and should require some sort of realistic salary calculation - Silly Valley is full of dorm-like housing that caters to low-wage H1B workers. But nowhere in this discussion do people point out that there is a real skills shortage in tech, something which needs to be solved if we want to continue to grow the tech sector....

      1. Orv Silver badge

        Re: I think a points-based system is a good idea in general.

        "It's already the case an H1B can only be allocated if you can't find local talent"

        And yet stories abound of people being asked to train their H1B and H3B replacements, which would seem to suggest that this requirement is not being enforced.

  15. CrazyOldCatMan Silver badge

    "The American worker has never had a stronger advocate than President Trump,"

    Which is why, in his business life, he makes every effort not to pay them for the work thay have done..

    1. James 51

      Re: "The American worker has never had a stronger advocate than President Trump,"

      Franklin D. Roosevelt might have a better claim to that title.

      1. SouthernLogic

        Re: "The American worker has never had a stronger advocate than President Trump,"

        Any idiot can give away other peoples tax money. It takes a real leader to put things in place so the free giveaways are not needed anymore.

  16. Palpy

    Have to agree that "trust" is long gone.

    "'This legislation will not only restore our competitive edge in the 21st century, but it will restore the sacred bonds of trust between America and its citizens,' said President Donald Trump."

    In the Washington Post today, George Will opines that Vietnam was "when Americans stopped trusting the government." He has a point. That, coupled with Nixon's coverup of criminal activity in his administration, did indeed break a barrier, and if Will can be trusted factually -- and I think he can be -- then "Since 1968, trust has not risen to pre-Vietnam levels."

    But trust is not a light switch. It's more like a rheostat. And yes, what Trump calls "the sacred bonds of trust" are very low and going lower. I'm not sure how many members of the Trump associates and Trump family have said, "We have not met with nor discussed anything with Russian state actors" only to be exposed as liars when independently verifiable evidence of exactly such meetings have surfaced.

    Trump himself has destroyed those "sacred bonds of trust" for most Americans. His diehard base (roughly 18% of Americans, I think) are the only people left who trust him.

    And, according to Sports Illustrated*, Trump even cheats at golf. Sigh. It's just a game, Donnie.

    *"Trump will sometimes respond to a shot he duffed by simply playing a second ball and carrying on as if the first shot never happened. In the parlance of the game, Trump takes floating mulligans, usually more than one during a round. Because of them it is impossible to say what he has actually shot on any given day, according to 18 people who have teed it up with Trump over the last decade, including SI senior writer Michael Bamberger, who has done so nine times."

  17. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    Turn again D.W.

    I was hoping that someone would turn this system around and do a points system for countries that someone might want to move to. For example:

    Q1: Is the country blind to race, colour or creed?

    Answer 1: Builds walls against other nationalities (-100 points)

    Answer 2: Passes legislations banning LGBT from certain occupations (-100)

    Answer 3: More than 100 hits on YouTube showing police brutality against minorities (-100)

    etc. for justice systems, employment of low paid workers and so on.

    I can think of no good reason to move to the U.S., I feel for the people for whom this is their only option.

  18. Wolfclaw

    Seems to be a reasonable reform, now, lets see if UKGov can do the same or as I expect, totally cock it up, like they have down for the last 30 years and then use PR to try and lie their way out !

    1. Orv Silver badge

      UK already has some of these restrictions, particularly the ones on relatives. A friend found that out the hard way. It's a complicated story, but it's something like this:

      - US family moves to the UK, including a minor child.

      - The now-adult child leaves the UK, spends a few months poking around in the US.

      - Adult child tries to rejoin his family in the UK, is asked to leave the country, as he has no immigration status.

      It was an awkward situation to say the least.

  19. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    Not sure it changes much for DJT's base

    Both sides are perpetually dishonest. The US does not need large numbers of middling-talent immigrants. It needs a lot of highly-talented immigrants. People who write Java in one category, say, compared to people who write JVMs in the other. When I hear howling from people like Accenture and Facebook, they cloak themselves as defending the second category but in reality they are searching for the first - hence H-1B abuse. When I hear howling from the DJT fringe they claim (real) pain from the first and all too often lump in the second. Immigrants are a positive good in an advanced economy, but a govt needs a system to split the categories apart.

    As it happens, this proposal does not do that. Take your stereotypical Indian H-1B worker. STEM degree? Yes. Fluent in English? Yes. Has a job? Yes. Doesn't really help does it?

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: Not sure it changes much for DJT's base

      You have a very generous definition of fluent.

    2. anonymous boring coward Silver badge

      Re: Not sure it changes much for DJT's base

      "The US does not need large numbers of middling-talent immigrants."

      Are you sure about that?

      Wouldn't those raise the overall talent level of the US, given the native talent pool?

  20. tekHedd

    Tech giants hate it

    So it's probably a good thing re: my salary.

    1. ckm5

      Re: Tech giants hate it

      Probably not. "Tech giants" are paying way over market rate for talent and also subsidizing housing & transportation for employees*. Yelp, for example, pays interns $9000/month here in Silly Valley. Starting salaries at most tech companies are well into the six figures and retention bonuses can be completely insane.

      If you are underpaid or underemployed there are probably a few of reasons:

      1. Wrong geography - where you live has a huge impact on salary & opportunity

      2. Wrong skillset - modern & rare tech skills pay a lot more, typically

      3. Bad presentation - BTDT, getting professional help for resumes & linkedin profiles is a huge help

      4. Not represented - sounds crazy, but having a recruiter represent you can be a big help in finding stuff

      5. Not networking - only 30-40% of tech jobs are advertised, if you don't network with your peers, you'll never know about good opportunities

      6. Public visibility - being active in meetups, in industry specific forums and on Github leads to a lot more people contacting you about jobs (see 5 above as well).

      Make no mistake, all this is a lot of work, but, having been on both sides of the fence (looking for work and looking for people to hire), it's frustrating all around.

      * if you look at this list https://qz.com/1041506/new-data-on-h-1b-visas-show-how-it-outsourcers-are-short-changing-workers/ it's clear that the H1B program is being abused by outsourcing companies providing cheap labor, not tech giants.

  21. Daniel von Asmuth
    Facepalm

    Mother of expats

    Give me your talented, your rich,

    your well-heeled geniuses, yearning for promotion,

    Send these, the stars to America's white shore,

    for here they have the chance to earn some more.

    PS. If you be a farm hand, dishwasher, waitress, cab driver, cleaning lady or assembly line worker, please look for a job in Mexico.

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: Mother of expats

      PS. If you be a farm hand, dishwasher, waitress, cab driver, cleaning lady or assembly line worker, please look for a job in Mexico.

      This is the new strategy, is it ?- take away white-collar jobs from Americans and give them to cheaper immigrants, so the Americans now can move down to the unskilled jobs.

      1. anonymous boring coward Silver badge

        Re: Mother of expats

        "This is the new strategy, is it ?- take away white-collar jobs from Americans and give them to cheaper immigrants, so the Americans now can move down to the unskilled jobs."

        Perhaps just as well?

  22. Destroy All Monsters Silver badge
    Trollface

    Yes, and?

    Americans Shocked to Learn Emma Lazarus "Poem Technically Isn't US Law"

    It turns out that the US actually has border, who would have thunk it?

    1. SouthernLogic

      Re: Yes, and?

      We have a border? with mexico? where? Is it north or south of Phoenix?

  23. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    MAWA!

    Make America White Again - in action.

    1. SouthernLogic

      Re: MAWA!

      lame racist. Why does everything have to be about skin color with you.

  24. anonymous boring coward Silver badge

    "This legislation will not only restore our competitive edge in the 21st century,..."

    In the same way that Brexit will make UK more competitive?

  25. SouthernLogic

    Smart Move

    Most developed countries have a system like this, even Mexico has a system like this and I would not call them a developed country.

    Many countries in Europe did as well until Merkel became your leader and put uneducated muslims at the front of the line.

  26. annaustin070

    Pros and Cons

    There are pros and cons to a points system favoring skilled workers. It is likely that immigrants’ economic contribution to the United States is greater under a system with a major role for employers, and it is not clear on either theoretical or empirical grounds that this is best done through a points system. The U.S. economy will gain most from immigration if low-skilled immigrants continue to be admitted, with or without a points system. However, this has less desirable distributional consequences than a system focusing on skilled immigration, which is less likely to have a negative impact on the wages of less-skilled native workers.

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