The edwardian railway bridge referred to in boot notes is called the Misbourne Viaduct and it crosses the M25 and A413. It is nowhere near J16 of the M40.
Give 'bots a chance: Driverless cars to be trialled between London and Oxford
Driverless cars using UK-made software will be tested on public roads and even motorways between London and Oxford. AI firm Oxbotica’s tech is at the heart of the Driven consortium’s latest driverless car trial, which will see manned-but-autonomous cars testing their software. Starting in the next week, the 30-month trial …
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Monday 24th April 2017 14:47 GMT Anonymous Coward
Re: Why?
Pretty much the only crashes that have happened have been some meatbag's fault.
That's not quite true, plus the idea of Artificial Intelligence is that it is supposed to take into account a lack of actual intelligence of other road users on account of being normal, fallible human beings...
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Monday 24th April 2017 14:44 GMT Anonymous Coward
Re: Why?
Just why when there is no evidence that these work even in test environments?
What is the motivation? Data can be collected without any autonomous control.
Oh yes, but there is mucho money to be pocketed from a government grant, and even more by lawyers when it all goes wrong.
From a government perspective, all is peachy: some politician gets to announce something that appears to be forward looking, the Americans have already invented the phrase "collateral damage" to explain away any unfortunate mishaps and they've just snagged almost £10M from the taxpayer to waste on friends.
If you're a cynic, this was pretty much inevitable. The hype had reached a point where someone was bound to take advantage of it.
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Monday 24th April 2017 17:57 GMT Timbo
Re: Repainting the text....
"Wouldn't it be good if someone did crowd-funding to get the "Give peas a chance" message repainted - it's looking a bit tatty now."
Speaking of which (or not as the case may be.
Anyone remember the "Good Morning Lemmings" graffitti, painted on the support posts for the elevated section of the A4/M4. You'd have to be on the A4 under the elevated section (or to have come off the east-bound slip road) towards the Chiswick roundabout to have seen it.
Been a while since I was in that area so don't know if it has been overpainted. Always tickled me, thinking of stationary motorists in the morning rushhour, having to endure this message !!
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Monday 24th April 2017 14:22 GMT Anonymous Coward
There's a great deal
UK road users are expected to take the risks of "live experimentation", government shell out a few million quid of taxpayer's cash, and bend over backwards to make the law accommodating. And then, if anything comes of it. the software will be bought by a deep-pocketed overseas investor, the rights registered in a low tax location, and all software development offshored. And that's a big "if", given the vast amounts either already invested, or committed by Google, Tesla, Intel, GM, Ford, Toyota et al.
Some may also wonder why the United Kingdom Atomic Energy Authority are piffling around with self driving cars. Perhaps they'd be be better off doing some serious work to provide us with cheap and secure electrical power?
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Monday 24th April 2017 14:27 GMT Pete 2
Re: There's a great deal
> why the United Kingdom Atomic Energy Authority are piffling around with self driving cars.
Because Mr. Fusion told them to.
... and also because it is the best way to make other motorists keep their distance. What would you do when you see the car in front has stickers on it saying "Self-driving test vehicle" and "sponsored by the UKAEA" ?
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Monday 24th April 2017 18:36 GMT allthecoolshortnamesweretaken
Re: There's a great deal
"What would you do when you see the car in front has stickers on it saying "Self-driving test vehicle" and "sponsored by the UKAEA" ?"
I would want to know what's in the boot...
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Monday 24th April 2017 22:05 GMT John Brown (no body)
Re: There's a great deal
"Thinks to self, now why would people responsible for radioactive material want a driver less car...."
Based on the recent information that they were driving plutonium around in the back of a car with no escorts, not even a co-driver, back in the day, then yes, I can see why.
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Monday 24th April 2017 14:47 GMT John H Woods
Re: There's a great deal
"Some may also wonder why the United Kingdom Atomic Energy Authority are piffling around with self driving cars. "
Are they, perchance, electric? I don't think we'll be able to replace ICE vehicles with electric ones without some involvement from the UKAEA. All those spiffing facebook posts "This is the first day we did without coal!" and "UK powered by renewables alone for 24hrs" seem to conveniently forget the amount of hydrocarbons burned daily on the UK road network, and the quantity of electrons that will be required to replace them.
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Monday 24th April 2017 16:11 GMT Anonymous Coward
Re: There's a great deal
I don't think we'll be able to replace ICE vehicles with electric ones without some involvement from the UKAEA.
Probably true. But the required involvement from UKAEA is in the electricity generation sector, not having them waste their time and my money dabbling in cars.
Even then, the problems at Westinghouse, and the unfeasibly expensive Hinkley Point suggest that civil nuclear power - as currently practiced - will never be an affordable energy source.
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Tuesday 25th April 2017 08:15 GMT Anonymous Coward
Re: There's a great deal
Even then, the problems at Westinghouse, and the unfeasibly expensive Hinkley Point suggest that civil nuclear power - as currently practiced - will never be an affordable energy source.
Oh, but the current approach IS being revised. The problem is that it is not happening here, but in China.
The benefit of state control is that they can do things more long term. While nuclear energy in the West is still in the hands of those getting fat off selling reactors and then cashing in handily for decades on handling the resulting waste, the Chinese started a couple of years ago with looking at what Thorium could deliver - ironically something that some people have been trying to get going for ages in the US. Thorium happens to be a byproduct of rare earth metal mining, and they stopped exporting the raw material quite a while back for exactly that reason: power (combined with fighting a major pollution issue).
Meanwhile, idiots like Trump are restarting coal driven power to win a couple of votes..
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Monday 24th April 2017 17:44 GMT Anonymous Coward
Re: There's a great deal
It was "NO COAL", not "NO FOSSIL FUELS".
Gas is a fossil fuel, as (technically), is Uranium.
A cynic would claim that the only reason this happened, is because we have had a very mild winter, and the government bribed more big energy using companies to shut down than was actually needed; giving us a mild energy surplus, instead of a fairly hefty deficit.
UK reserves this winter, were between 0.1% and MINUS 20%, depending who you believe; either figure is a long, long way short of the recommended 20%.
I havent checked, but it wouldnt surprise me to find the current UK supply capacity is lower than it was during the power cuts and strikes of the 1970's.
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Tuesday 25th April 2017 13:21 GMT dajames
Re: There's a great deal
Gas is a fossil fuel, as (technically), is Uranium.
Yes, the word "fossil" literally means "something dug up", and isn't limited to decayed animals and plants entrapped in rock ... but calling Uranium a fossil fuel seems to be taking "technically" a step too far!
... and surely you drill for oil and gas, rather than dig, so "technically" perhaps they're not fossil fuels?
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Monday 24th April 2017 16:16 GMT Anonymous Coward
Re: There's a great deal
'Some may also wonder why the United Kingdom Atomic Energy Authority are piffling around with self driving cars. Perhaps they'd be be better off doing some serious work to provide us with cheap and secure electrical power?'
With us falling out of Euratom as a side-effect of Brexit, we won't be partners in ITER and many of the jobs at Culham will go overseas - perhaps UKAEA is going to set up a minicab business?
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Tuesday 25th April 2017 10:09 GMT Cuddles
Re: There's a great deal
"Some may also wonder why the United Kingdom Atomic Energy Authority are piffling around with self driving cars."
The tiny number of nuclear plants that may eventually get built some time in the distant future are a mix of French and Chinese, while Trident is essentially American. In the absence of any UK involvement in actual nuclear stuff, I guess taking up cars as a hobby at least gives them something to do.
@Ian Emery:
"Gas is a fossil fuel, as (technically), is Uranium."
No, fossil fuels are the remains of living organisms, uranium is just an element. It's not a simple dichotomy between fossil fuels and renewables, it's entirely possible for an energy source to be neither.
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Monday 24th April 2017 14:30 GMT Anonymous Coward
how exactly are they different to the other offerings?
“No company, group or consortium of autonomy experts has ever attempted what Driven is planning over the next 30 months,” It was a bit light on detail. They're autonomous.... so are Waymo (Google's) cars... so what exactly is new here that hasn't been attempted? The UK bit??
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Monday 24th April 2017 14:31 GMT Anonymous Coward
"Public roads and even motorways"....?
This suggests that Motorways are a problem. Can't see it myself - they're the most regulated road a driverless car is likely to find itself on. Compared to an urban street, the CAR-O-TRON using a motorway will never encounter a parked car half on the pavement, dopey mums pushing a pushchair out into traffic first and looking later, people who think a speed ramp is automatically a zebra crossing or a DHL driver parking in the middle of a box junction to save walking 20ft to deliver a parcel.
Plus the driving can't be any worse than the usual occupants of the M40 on a weekday morning.
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Monday 24th April 2017 15:37 GMT Anonymous Coward
That's fine, if they make a ROBOCAR-ONLY lane I'll just lash something up with a Raspberry Pi, an old VGA webcam taped to the roof, a few servos and elastic bands to drive the steering wheel and accelerator. Just needs a little screen constantly scrolling through some javascript code (green on black, natch) that I've robbed off some Web Development For Dummies site, circa 2003.
Obvs it doesn't have to work, I'd actually drive the thing, but it needs to look good in case the cops pull me over for being a fleshy human in the OVERLORD LANE.
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Monday 24th April 2017 15:00 GMT Anonymous Coward
"Public roads and even motorways"....?
If the author had listened to the Oxbotica person on the Today program (or perhaps read more than the summary paragraph on the press release) then they'd know the reason why they are avoiding motorways is because comparatively speaking automated driving on a motorway is pretty simple - they want to demonstrate/learn from driving through more challenging environments
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Tuesday 25th April 2017 10:59 GMT CrazyOldCatMan
automated driving on a motorway is pretty simple
Indeed. As, as a bonus, they can work out how to network the sensors of separate cars effictively and safely (does that cars sensor readings look wildly different from everyone elses? Ignore it as it's either faulty or pwned. If no other cars around other than that one, rely on your own sensors).
It always struck me that networking sensors on the cars themselves (and a number of static installations) was sensible as long as the process was robust, as crack-proof as possible[1] and reliable.
[1] With the current Idiocy Of Things manufacturers, the phrase "fat chance" springs to mind.
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Monday 24th April 2017 15:01 GMT Anonymous Coward
I'd be very interested to know what trials have been done under "laboratory conditions" before self driving cars are allowed on UK roads. I'd hazard a guess that this is actually a lot more tricky than autonomous driving in the US. In no particular order, some of the hazards which will be encountered more frequently in the UK than in (say) California are:-
Pedestrians (There are no jay walking laws here)
Cyclists (You'll see cyclists on more main roads here than in large parts of the US, mixing with traffic. Some of us may even be obeying road traffic laws...)
Bad weather (No need to say more...)
Horses and other unusual (but completely legal) road users. (In the last year I've encountered a steam* wagon** and a steam* roller)
*steam, as in "water made very hot by the heat of burning coal".
**A Sentinel something or other...
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Tuesday 25th April 2017 09:59 GMT tiggity
Most weeks I encounter horses on the roads, sometimes as a special overtaking bonus challenge in the form of horse and trap, they would definitely be the worst case scenario for driverless car as, in addition to needing to go past them far slower and wider than a cycle as horses can easily spook, ideally want to have "dialogue" (gestures / expressions) with rider & with vehicles coming opposite way as lots of "negotiation" to sort out who goes when as usually involves you passing with a large proportion of your car in the oncoming traffic lane.
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Tuesday 25th April 2017 18:33 GMT John Brown (no body)
"horse and trap, they would definitely be the worst case scenario for driverless car"
It'd not surprise me in the least to find that none of the devs have considered this scenario yet and the default action would be to treat it as a slow moving vehicle and just sit behind it until either it or the car turns off.
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Monday 24th April 2017 15:34 GMT inmypjs
"and brings a host of new questions surrounding the way these vehicles will...
communicate with each other"
Driverless cars any day now - shame about the host of new questions?
If they need to communicate with each other they are kinda screwed - because they are not going to be communicating with pedestrians or cyclists or animals or inanimate objects.
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Monday 24th April 2017 17:59 GMT Anonymous Coward
Re: "and brings a host of new questions surrounding the way these vehicles will...
"communicate with each other"
From the Oxbotica person on R4 this morning then cars will give advice to each other on which roads to avoid and what hazards to look out for so they'll be chatting away to each other along the lines of "the ring road? I wouldn't go onthe ring road at this tim e of day. ..... have you seen th queues there, no, I'd go round by the B562 but wtahc out for the wheelie bin in the road just after the pub"
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Monday 24th April 2017 19:28 GMT inmypjs
Re: "and brings a host of new questions surrounding the way these vehicles will...
" wtahc out for the wheelie bin in the road"
If they can't recognise a wheelie bin without being told about it then the message will be "watch out for me I am crashed into something" presumably needed because they can't recognise a crashed car either?
The rest sounds like built in and forced to use Waze.
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Tuesday 25th April 2017 07:56 GMT Anonymous Coward
Re: "and brings a host of new questions surrounding the way these vehicles will...
Could be fun to inject some logic bombs in there like "what was first, the chicken or the egg?" and watch them crash when that takes up all their processing power like a Nutri-Matic in the Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy trying to make tea..
Oh yes, wireless comms. Such a lovely open door for people with a malicious sense of humour..
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Monday 24th April 2017 15:44 GMT Anonymous Coward
It's worth looking at some of the reviews of the Nissan Leaf they've been trialling around London. Most of the questions above are answered - the system was more than capable of spotting a pedestrian walk into the road, and actually tracks them along the pavement. It can move out around stationary vehicles, or those that have nudged out too far when pulling into the road from a side street. Apparently rain doesn't affect the cameras as much as you think it would and they still operated - I bet some drivers habit of clearing a 6" square porthole in the snow would have to stop though.
It was confused by a bus pulling over at a stop though, it couldn't decide whether it was a queue of traffic or not so it didn't overtake and the driver took control. At least that's not a bad failsafe, but I wonder how long it would sit behind a delivery truck that's stopped before making some sort of bleeping noise to let the driver know it's confused.
Agree that UK traffic is more varied and unpredictable than US traffic. I was woken up this weekend by a traction engine rumbling past my house, towing a trailer which was towing a Land Rover. Also, we have something called "bends" in the road.
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