back to article Engineer who blew lid on Uber's toxic sexist culture now menaced by creepy 'smear campaign'

The engineer who claims Uber is rife with sexism and lying executives has said someone is researching her background for a smear campaign. On Sunday, Susan Fowler, a former Uber engineer and O'Reilly author, published an explosive blog post telling of her time at the scandal-hit ride-hailing biz, including claims of …

  1. This post has been deleted by its author

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: Why does Uber even exist?

      Über exists because in many western jurisdictions, the artificial scarcity created by the collusion between local governments and existing taxi businesses has resulted a situation where customer satisfaction or the price of the product no longer mattered for the success of the business. For example, how is it sane for a taxi licence to be worth more than a house - and this was the before-Uber situation in many large North American cities.

      The taxi industry was ripe for a bit of shakeup. It would have happened with or without Uber; hopefully, some lessons will be learnt.

      1. Warm Braw

        Re: artificial scarcity

        Unfortunately, Uber's response is a model in which the price of the product does not relefect the cost of providing it: your Uber ride is heavily subsidised in order to gain market share. The only way I see that Uber could make money in the long term would be to create exactly the same kind of artificial scarcity in order to drive prices back up.

        1. Tom 38

          Re: artificial scarcity

          your Uber ride is heavily subsidised in order to gain market share. The only way I see that Uber could make money in the long term would be to create exactly the same kind of artificial scarcity in order to drive prices back up.

          Absolutely. I think they haven't taken in to account that Uber aren't doing *anything* remotely clever, their business can easily be duplicated by competitors and so they will never get to the monopoly point where they can gouge consumers with all their market share.

          So instead, look at it another way: by using Uber, you will burn through all their money quicker, and some VC twat is subsidizing your fare.

      2. katrinab Silver badge

        Re: Why does Uber even exist?

        That's not the case in the UK where anyone who meets the requirements can get a licence. The only reason they can manage to be cheaper is because they ignore employment and tax laws, or, in some towns / cities, the requirements they are have to follow to get a licence.

        Where I live for example, they were refused a licence due to not providing cars that are accessible for disabled people. They decided to start operating anyway, using cars registered in London. London registered cars are allowed to operate here if they are taking people to/from London, and mostly it is cab firms that serve the airport market that operate under those rules, but Über have decided to use them for local journeys as well.

        1. Dafyd Colquhoun

          Re: Why does Uber even exist?

          Pretty much the same situation in New Zealand. If meet the business rules and notify the government of your fare structure then you can run a taxi company. I guess surge pricing breaks those rules, so Uber skirts them and trots out the old 'scarcity' argument (which is valid in Australia and other countries) regardless.

          https://www.nzta.govt.nz/commercial-driving/taxis-shuttles-buses-and-other-passenger-services/becoming-an-approved-taxi-organisation/

        2. bombastic bob Silver badge
          Big Brother

          Re: Why does Uber even exist?

          "The only reason they can manage to be cheaper is because they ignore employment and tax laws"

          Not so much IGNORE, but exploit the 'contractor' loop hole.

          Consider that a NORMAL taxi company might have to hire drivers as EMPLOYEES [which means payroll, payroll taxes, OBAKA-CARE, insurance, yotta yotta] as opposed to having the drivers become INDEPENDENT CONTRACTORS, which eliminates most of that overhead. Actually, it was a pretty good 'hack' to provide a method of 'finding a driver' like that. You'd think that customers and drivers would all 'win'.

          However, gummints don't like independent contractors (it causes their tax revenues to go down, and they lose certain levels of control). Having your own corporation makes it a bit easier to be a long term contractor, rather than 1099 (in the USA), but may cost you more overall. Corp-corp contracts are less likely to be scrutinized because of it. But there are some 'unwritten rules' like "pay yourself a salary" or get audited. Yeah. it's like "payola to play".

          I saw one case (that personally affected me) where a FORMER independent contractor sued his employer for NOT offering a "wage job". Well, in HIS case, letting his contract expire was kinda like being laid off. But the lawsuit was WON ANYWAY, because he "worked on site" for over a year, and was considered "an employee". So as part of the settlement, ALL of the contractors (me included) had to be 'converted' to employees rather than contractors. That was better in SOME ways, but worse in others.

          Anyway, stoopid gummints don't like contractors, and so they'll be looking for a way to make you "play the game" their way by their rules. but since the Uber drivers are in their OWN cars, the gummints don't have much of a case against Uber. So no purchasing expensive taxi licenses since it's "ride sharing", no need for political contributions to limit the number of drivers and keep your company more profitable, etc..

          When I went to Las Vegas recently, you had to WAIT IN LINE for a Taxi at the airport. That's unlike any OTHER place I've EVER been... [I'm used to seeing the Taxis line up]

      3. Anonymous Coward
        Boffin

        Re: Why does Uber even exist?

        It is sane for a taxi license to cost more than a house if you can derive a larger income from a taxi license than a house. I don't know if that's true (and note part of the income may be the increase in value of the house, not just the rent), but it might be.

    2. The Man Who Fell To Earth Silver badge
      Boffin

      Re: Why does Uber even exist?

      It's part of the neo-sharcropper economy, which is a clone of the worse version of sharecropping.

      In sharecropping, the landlord fronts the money for owning the property & for planting the next crop, the sharecropper does the work, and the landlord & sharecropper share in the proceeds of the crop sale. The goal is for both the landlord & sharecropper to make money and this system has them co-invest in the crop, albeit in different "currencies", and share the investment risk.

      The digital sharecropper economy ah la Uber, is vastly more abusive to the "sharecropper" than in normal sharecropping. In the digital sharecropper economy, the "digital landlord" takes on zero risk and simply skims cash off the cash flow. The "digital landlord" thus makes money regardless of the profit & loss of the "digital sharecropper". The "digital sharecropper" takes on 100% of the risk both in terms of capital investment (owning & maintaining a car or property) and in terms of operating profit/loss.

      What's not to like (if you are a scumbag like Uber)?

  2. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    Well

    People need to realize there are big investor bucks around Uber and anything is fair game where large amounts of money are involved. Susan has every right to be concerned.

    Further, look, Uber is the epitome of sleaze. It isn't something inconveniently attached to their upstanding company. Sleaze IS their company. When you have an organization that is founded on an outright and easily provable lie, you have sleaze. Uber is NOT a ride share company. It is a ride for hire company, just like a taxi. I admit I use their sleaze to my advantage at times, and in NO Case was the driver miraculously already going in my direction and I just hitched a ride. I summon a driver - like a taxi or a limo - they take me to where I ask them to - like a taxi or a limo - and I pay them for doing so and get out - like a taxi or a limo. For Uber to say it isn't a taxi or a limo service subject to the rules and regulations of said services is preposterously absurd. Hence, a sleazy organization. Does their management and hired employees walk around all the time going "hehehe, we're getting over on those suckers." Seems to be a theme from Silicon Valley now doesn't it?

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: Well

      Don't stress too much, here in Asia Uber is not getting such an easy ride.

      Firstly, the Vietnamese government have refused to give them an operating licence until they have a local entity and pay local taxes (ignoring their "but we process the cash off shore" excuse).

      And secondly because the Malaysian copycat Grab taxi which was made at least 6 months after Uber, has taken a much more government friendly approach to expansion in Asia. That is what it takes here, governments don't like being cut out by foreign companies. Get them onside and you get close to a monopoly.

      1. Dr Scrum Master

        Re: Well

        Grab may have Malaysians at the helm, but they're Singapore-based.

  3. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    Well without a doubt UBER is paying for it

    Quite which sleezy PI they hired to do their dirty work is another matter.

    1. Suricou Raven

      Re: Well without a doubt UBER is paying for it

      Not necessarily. Yes, it might be Uber - but there are also a lot of nasty people on the internet, especially in these politically divided times.

      I can easily imagine some people digging up dirt for fun. People with a certain cartoon frog on their desktop, who declare that she is 'salty' and revel in 'feminist tears.'

  4. John Smith 19 Gold badge
    Unhappy

    Technically the smear campaign has not begun

    That starts when they've collected enough stuff they can twist into a form that something that can discredit her.

    Uber was indeed founded just after the global financial meltdown triggered by US sub prime BS, the key players of whom are very much still in business, even if their banks are not.

    <rant>

    OT it's time for banking regulators to stop swallowing bank BS. They are not "Too big to fail." It's a business. When it fails you value the assets and sell them off for what you can get. In the case of sub prime mortages the real value of 5% solid mortages +95% s**t is not very much. SFW? You "insured" it. Fine. Claim on the insurance.

    Businesses can't clear checks? Who still pays by checks? All banks should have a plan to migrate their account management to a third party in the even of financial difficulties. Not another bank and not owned by them. That's probably going to take legislation.

    Banks are not special or magical. The clue that BS is being talked comes with phrase like "It's too complicated to explain." If you can't explain it to people inside your company, let alone outsiders, maybe you don't understand what you're talking about? That's fine for a salesman, not so good if it's the CEO who's saying it.

    </rant>

    1. Dr Scrum Master

      Re: Technically the smear campaign has not begun

      That starts when they've collected enough stuff they can twist into a form that something that can discredit her.

      "If one would give me six lines written by the hand of the most honest man, I would find something in them to have him hanged"

      1. JJKing
        Black Helicopters

        Re: Technically the smear campaign has not begun

        Nooooooobody expects the French Inquisition.

        1. Anonymous Coward
          Anonymous Coward

          Re: Technically the smear campaign has not begun

          > Nooooooobody expects the French Inquisition.

          French?

          1. Anonymous Coward
            Anonymous Coward

            Re: Technically the smear campaign has not begun

            See, it worked! You didn't expect the *French* Inquisition, did you?

            1. cantankerous swineherd
              Pint

              Re: Technically the smear campaign has not begun

              genius!

          2. art guerrilla

            Re: Technically the smear campaign has not begun

            well, technically, they are right, nobody expects that...

          3. Adam 52 Silver badge

            Re: Technically the smear campaign has not begun

            "French?"

            I assumed it was a reaction to the Richelieu quote.

    2. DavCrav

      Re: Technically the smear campaign has not begun

      "They are not "Too big to fail.""

      No, but they might be too important to fail. There are a variety of companies that are essential for an economy. Think power, telecoms, postal services, and so on. You cannot just let a cable company shut down, as millions of people's Internet connection will be removed. In the UK, it's fine for Vauxhall (to pick a topical one) to be shut down. Thousands of people will lose their jobs, but it's not a serious problem. You cannot let National Grid PLC (in charge of electricity transport in the UK) shut down.

      Whether banks are too important to fail is an interesting question, but it is definitely not as clear cut as people make out.

      1. John Smith 19 Gold badge
        Unhappy

        "You cannot just let a cable company shut down, "

        Actually you can.

        The question is wheather this business (or the market sector it's in) is "critical infrastructure"

        IIRC the UK actually has about 150+ ISP's. Would it annoy a lot of people if Vermin or BT failed in the UK. Yes. But that leaves another 148.

        If you're saying a business depends on internet access quite a lot probably do. So if their business need it so much shouldn't they either take out insurance against failure and/or get a second supplier? It's the "We're special" argument again. Sorry but you are not.

        Most of the cases you cited are monopoly networks (and even Royal Mail isn't that anymore). They'd have to be run in a hugely incompetent way for years to actually fail to make a profit.

        And let's not forget that there is no national UK water network, yet I don't think anyone is expecting a water company to fail. Not given the profits they make for their (entirely) foreign owners.

        Regulators should make it clear they are planning for bank failures and the market will be allowed to adjust IE no more bailouts. It is (IMHO) a waste of taxpayers money. The "mortgage" and "loan" books will be sold off and account management will be transferred to another institution so businesses can continue moving money around the real economy, where bills for real stuff are presented and need to be paid for with real money (granted there's fat chance of that in the US with so many of the responsible now working for the so called Federal Reserve). Likewise their property portfolio will also be sold off. Just like any other business.

        However this is OT for the thread.

        1. Korev Silver badge

          Re: "You cannot just let a cable company shut down, "

          IIRC the UK actually has about 150+ ISP's. Would it annoy a lot of people if Vermin or BT failed in the UK. Yes. But that leaves another 148.

          If BT died then most of those 150 would be taken down too as they partially run over BT infrastructure.

          1. John Smith 19 Gold badge
            Unhappy

            "If BT died then most of those 150 would be taken down too "

            I was referring to BT as an ISP, not BT Openreach.

            Openreach can be viewed as a "critical infrastructure" provider.

        2. Rattus Rattus

          Re: critical infrastructure

          So really, the sensible way to approach it is that "critical infrastructure" simply cannot be privately owned. Water, power, possibly banking, ALL should be 100% government provided.

          1. David Nash Silver badge

            Re: critical infrastructure

            "Water, power, possibly banking, ALL should be 100% government provided"

            +Trains

        3. CrazyOldCatMan Silver badge

          Re: "You cannot just let a cable company shut down, "

          if Vermin or BT failed in the UK

          Vermin Media - fine. Who cares.. BT is a whole different kettle of barely-sentient octopusses.. since a lot of the smaller ISPs buy their lines from BT Wholesale, it would be a pretty bad scenario if BT did go down.

      2. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        Re: Technically the smear campaign has not begun

        Which proves the stupidity of having these nice, honest businessmen owning and running utilities and healthcare.

    3. Filippo Silver badge

      Re: Technically the smear campaign has not begun

      Sort of. As a business, you can protect yourself against your ISP failing by getting insurance and/or a second ISP.

      Protecting yourself against a major bank failing is a whole lot harder. You can get insurance and/or arrange loans from a second bank... and then, when the sith hits the fan, find out that both the insurance company and the second bank were major creditors of the first bank, and its failure will take them down, and *that* will take *you* down. Or maybe you managed to avoid this trap, but half of your customers didn't, and won't pay their debts towards you, and then *that* will take you down. Or maybe your suppliers fell for it, and won't be able to supply you any more, and *that* will take you down. You get the picture.

      That situation can and does become exacerbated to the point where it's obvious that if the bank fails it will take down a disproportionate chunk of your entire national economy with it, most of it people who did nothing wrong, nothing that could reasonably be considered to be risky, and never even thought they had anything to do with that bank.

      The smart thing would be to simply forbid by law such situations from happening. The smart thing, unfortunately, was not done; in fact, quite the opposite. The next-best thing is to bail the bank out so that the situation doesn't go nuclear, punish the people who knowingly set up that situation, and THEN forbid by law such situations from happening again. Guess which part of that got done, and which ones didn't.

      1. John Smith 19 Gold badge
        Unhappy

        "Protecting yourself against a major bank failing is a whole lot harder. "

        Yes.

        That would be why it will probably need new legislation to force banks to prepare orderly (automated) transfer of customer accounts (both business and personal) to a third party in the event of a financial crisis.

        Not another bank and not an organization they own.

        1. Anonymous Coward
          Anonymous Coward

          Re: "Protecting yourself against a major bank failing is a whole lot harder. "

          That would be why it will probably need new legislation to force banks to prepare orderly (automated) transfer of customer accounts (both business and personal) to a third party in the event of a financial crisis.

          Not another bank and not an organization they own.

          So you want the accounts to go to something which looks like a bank, works like a bank, but is not a bank. Furthermore, you want that entity to have the capacity, the expertise, and the resources to start dealing with potentially millions of new, unfamiliar customers overnight and on a moment's notice. You also want it to happen with no significant interruption in the business process.

          I really would like some of the stuff you are smoking - but I'll have to stay at 1/10-th of your dosage. After all, I will still need to work tomorrow.

          1. John Smith 19 Gold badge

            @AC

            "you want the accounts to go to something which looks like a bank, works like a bank, but is not a bank."

            And yet isn't that exactly what people who sell and plan Disaster Recovery services to large companies do? A remote data centre run by a third party. Also this is for existing customers. No new customers, no major account changes. Just keeping the core business moving.

            I didn't say it would be easy or the banksterrs woundn't b**ch about it which is why it would need legislation.

            "I really would like some of the stuff you are smoking "

            Maybe you should ask your shift leader at the takeway where you work?

            I won't be needing any fries with that.

            1. Anonymous Coward
              Anonymous Coward

              Re: @AC

              Maybe you should ask your shift leader at the takeway where you work?

              I hope one day you will understand that there is absolutely nothing shameful about working at a takeway, or doing any other honest work you need to do to make ends meet. Perhaps you might even be glad to land a job like that at some point in your life. Life is full of surprises sometimes.

              1. John Smith 19 Gold badge
                Happy

                "I hope one day you will understand that there is absolutely nothing ....

                Implies I don't.

                And like various ideas people have about me it's also wrong.

                It's not what job you find yourself doing.

                It's what you do about getting out of it that's important.

                But why should I be polite to someone who disagrees with my PoV, suggests I take illegal drugs and can't even put their own handle to their comments?

                But as they taught at the holy arches if you argue with a moron customer you've already lost.

                Have a nice day.

  5. Pascal Monett Silver badge

    Ah, Uber

    Is there anything you cannot do wrong ?

  6. John Deeb
    IT Angle

    "obscene and perverted situations"

    What a surprise, a gazillion dollar is continuously being pumped in a dead-end enterprise, essentially based on exploiting legal loopholes for short-term sensation and somehow people are surprised obscene and perverted situations flourish as a result?

    Feel free to apply the above to any current obscene or perverted situation on the globe.

  7. This post has been deleted by its author

    1. gnasher729 Silver badge

      Re: Why does Uber even exist and Too Big To Fail

      To be honest. Uber hasn't skimmed billions yet. Quite the opposite. The two reasons why they can be cheaper than a normal taxi service: They circumvent any regulations, and they subsidize the rides.

      1. This post has been deleted by its author

      2. Steve Davies 3 Silver badge
        Coat

        Re: Why does Uber even exist and Too Big To Fail

        and when all the comptition goes to the wall? what then?

        Uber raised it prices and the VC's who put up the ante get even richer.

        We get screwed because there is no competition left.

        Uber still claims that its drivers are not employees. Where the ruling goes against them, they pull out leaving a void because they have made their money (the VC's that is).

        They go public and fail to produce those miraculous profits, the share price tanks.

        Read up on the South-sea Bubble. Uber is just a modern version.

        mines the one with a local Z-A in the pocket because in the post Uber world, I'll be doing a lot more walking.

      3. tiggity Silver badge

        Re: Why does Uber even exist and Too Big To Fail

        Never used Uber , but anything could massively undercut our local taxis without needing subsidies. Gave up on using local taxis (for cost reasons) ages ago. So, on a night out juts have no (alcoholic) drinks & drive there back as cannot justify excessive taxi fares.

  8. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    Uber is slimy? No!

    LOL

    Anonymous in the hope they wont slash my tyres tonite,

  9. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    Not surprised

    I guess the whole thing has caught 4chan's attention, and they're probably gearing up for the "next" GamerGate.

    I'm actually surprised they hadn't jumped in earlier, as this is exactly the kind of crap they love to troll on.

  10. bob salmon

    Microservices?

    This whole thing about standardising Microservices. It is just good Engineering Practice. A lot of us have been doing this for years and just haven't bothered making a book and telling everyone we are an expert.

    I would be pretty annoyed about the way that HR has handled all of this though. I am sure there is blatant sexism there but I am not so sure this young lady doesn't have a over inflated ego.

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: Microservices?

      "Telling everyone she is an expert": No, she is just trying to get her job done.

      "Over-inflated ego": No, she is just trying to get her job done.

      It doesn't matter whether she is the janitor or the chief engineer, or, for that matter, whether she is a expert in reliability engineering or not. She has evidence of sexual emails from her boss, which any adult knows is out of order in the workplace. Getting no backup from HR is a red flag. Getting no backup from HR because they want to protect a favored employee is full on run-for-the-hills territory.

  11. Fazal Majid

    Eric Holder

    Would that be the same Eric Holder who managed not to find anyone guilty of fraud in the 2008 depression, other than Madoff (who was unwise enough to steal from the rich)? Sure, he was shielding the banksters at his boss' behest, but that shows just how independent he is not, nor will be in this sham whitewash of an "investigation".

    1. Swarthy

      Re: Eric Holder

      Also the same Holder who managed to "lose" whole crates of automatic weapons, in the direction of various drug cartels, while "trying" to reduce gun violence , especially among drug cartels...

  12. Pen-y-gors

    Let's make money

    1. Find out who is digging for 'useful' information

    2. Get a friend to feed them some seriously damaging but false stories

    3. Wait for them to publish the story

    4. Cash in big time $$$$$

  13. Mr Commenty McComentface

    Hey Uber

    The 80s called and wish to sue you for unauthorised use of their business models and tactics.

    Uber (management) - Fuckwits who have watched Wold of Wall Street to damn often.

    1. John Smith 19 Gold badge
      Unhappy

      "Uber (management) - Fuckwits who have watched Wold of Wall Street to damn often."

      I think they probably quite liked "Inside Job" as well.

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