back to article Facebook chokes off car insurance slurp because – get this – it has privacy concerns

Facebook has shut down efforts by a car insurance company to use posts on the social network to decide discounts – over privacy concerns. No, honestly. The "firstcarquote" service was launched by UK-based Admiral on Wednesday and is intended to offer new drivers the ability to save money on their insurance by downloading an …

  1. Chris G

    Precious

    It's ours! our precious Private Data, not for nasty Insurances! Blockum! Blockum!

    1. BillG
      Pint

      Re: Precious

      "Protecting the privacy of the people on Facebook is of utmost importance to us," said a spokesperson with a straight face

      Love that line, Kieren - here, have a pint.

    2. veti Silver badge

      Re: Precious

      Yep, the real crime here is "trying to bypass Facebook's publicly available APIs".

      If some freeloading outsider can come along and exploit Facebook's data without paying Facebook for it, then the data itself stops being so valuable.

    3. Gotno iShit Wantno iShit

      Re: Precious

      It's ours! our precious Private Data, not for nasty Insurances! Blockum! Blockum!

      Nor, clearly, does any of that data belong to the individuals who authored it. I hope there's a budding Max Schrems among the affected FB users, I really do.

    4. tmTM

      Re: Precious

      Yes the news here isn't that Facebook defends it's users privacy.

      It's the insurance company weren't going to give Facebook a piece of the action.

    5. TheVogon

      Re: Precious

      This must be some new meaning of the word "privacy" I had not previously encountered that actually means "because we couldn't bill them for it."

  2. Richard Jones 1
    Flame

    We Profit From You

    Only backside book is allowed to profit, the users are the commodity to be milked dry. Commodities do not make money, they make other people rich.

  3. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    Expect Faceboook to sell the same service soon...

    ... they just stopped someone to exploit a "good idea" someone at FB should have thought about before... expect some private meetings where "someone" will yell at his executive for having not thought of it before... the "privacy" here means your data become FB "private" ones, no other should be allowed to make money from them.

    1. VinceH

      Re: Expect Faceboook to sell the same service soon...

      Yup - coming RSN, no doubt: A new API to allow paying companies to access their [potential] customers' posts, or perhaps to invoke certain searches/analyses of the posts and return the results.

  4. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    Facebook crushes car insurance slurp because – get this – <del> it has privacy concerns </del> not get a cut

  5. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    I presume it has more to do

    With other insurance companies already purchasing full fat slurp from fb asking why they should pay when admiral do not have to.

    In my opinion insurance companies should be required to release the data and scoring they used to make the quote. That way incorrect data effecting customers premiums can be identified and corrected. My personal opinion is that everyone's premium is as high as possible dependant upon how likely you are to go elsewhere

    1. DaveDaveDave

      Re: I presume it has more to do

      " My personal opinion is that everyone's premium is as high as possible dependant upon how likely you are to go elsewhere"

      Insurance is an incredibly competitive market. If you don't bother to shop around, you're an idiot. If you do, you'll get the best possible price.

      1. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        Re: I presume it has more to do

        "If you don't bother to shop around, you're an idiot."

        Or, y'know, unable, due to being infirm, etc ...

        1. Anonymous Coward
          Anonymous Coward

          Re: Or, y'know, unable, due to being infirm, etc ..

          Or the premiums have only gone up a little bit and you hate answering the same bloody questions over and over again.

          Money Saving Experts know that to properly search the market you need to use at least 2 brokers and contact a number of other major insurers who aren't on the broker sites. For some of us overpaid IT workers the potential saving isn't worth the cost in time.

        2. FIA Silver badge

          Re: I presume it has more to do

          "If you don't bother to shop around, you're an idiot."

          Or, y'know, unable, due to being infirm, etc ...

          Erm, in what case would you not be infirm enough to be in control of a ton+ of plastic and metal capable of dangerous speeds yet too infirm to compare different insurance companies??

        3. TheVogon

          Re: I presume it has more to do

          "Or, y'know, unable, due to being infirm, etc ..."

          Then you shouldn't be driving. See for instance: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-leicestershire-37834668

      2. MJI Silver badge

        Re: I presume it has more to do

        Shopping around

        Mine is not too high, pay monthly, sorted by brokers. I cannot be bothered to do all of the legwork to find a better quote on the off chance of saving £10, then all the forms, I just let the brokers sort it, more time for me and it is worth more than the savings.

        Would cost me more than I would save.

  6. wolfetone Silver badge

    Bet if Admiral offered to pay for the data, and had kept their trap shut about it, Facebook would've let them.

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      I doubt it. Facebook's data is most valuable when it best reflects the real behaviour of the people behind it. If you're suddenly a lot less inclined to post about all the drinking and partying you do because you know your car insurer is watching your posts, you become a lot less valuable to everyone selling booze and parties.

      Insurers are going to buy the data for advertising in any case. The risk to both reputation and data are beyond any price that it'd be worth for any insurers to make up.

  7. TheProf
    Big Brother

    Well thought out idea.

    Absolutely in no way could anyone ever engineer a social account to make it look like it belonged to a potentially safer driver.

    No way in hell.

    No sir!

    Admiral will just have to look at YouTube accounts to see if drivers are behaving themselves. (Hint: No, they're not.)

    1. veti Silver badge

      Re: Well thought out idea.

      The self-discipline required to maintain a facade like that would, itself, be a pretty good indicator.

      1. BlartVersenwaldIII
        Big Brother

        Re: Well thought out idea.

        > The self-discipline required to maintain a facade like that would, itself, be a pretty good indicator.

        It probably already exists, but I'm quite surprised there isn't more of a market for services which will "curate" fictitiously perfect social media profiles for people to give them a better shot at jobs/dating/insurance and other casual observers that are pissed off that the telescreen isn't reality yet. If using social media profiles for insurance becomes commonplace, expect that sort of thing to become mainstream very quickly and there'll be no need for self-discipline any more, not when you can just buy "legitimacy".

        (Are we living in a sci-fi dystopia yet?)

        1. Swarthy
          Thumb Up

          Re: Well thought out idea.

          That's... actually a good idea. If I could stomach slogging through the inane drivel of the kind of people who would benefit from "curation" it could be a decent little money spinner. - One that AI won't be any good at for several years. Once AI is good enough (When/If) I expect to see it as a Facebook Premium option.

  8. ProperDave

    Facebook does this 'for our protection'...

    I ran into a similar issue with the posting controls on Facebook. You can't post automatically to a user's pages any more, which means a client can't 1-click publish to Facebook from the press release platform I work on now. WE'RE the villains in the client's eyes of course. Facebook justifies the restriction because of all the dodgey games and apps that users play that spam 'help me build/collect' nosense to people's feeds.

    In reality it penalises legitimate businesses like ours and we get the flak from clients because we lose features.

    1. Rich 11

      Re: Facebook does this 'for our protection'...

      In reality it pisses off more users than it affects the actions of businesses like yours.

  9. lukewarmdog

    The whole thing is pretty stupid. May as well ask the person applying to write an essay and analyse that, you don't need to access Facebook. Maybe I should pitch that to Admiral.

    1. John Brown (no body) Silver badge

      One wonders what risk level is attached to those of us who don't have farcebook accounts. Will Admiral do the "right thing" and assume a low risk? Or is it staffed by millennials who think anyone without social meeja accounts must be a bit weird and therefore a high risk?

      1. Martin an gof Silver badge

        think anyone without social meeja accounts must be a bit weird and therefore a high risk?

        I'll tell you in a couple of years when my children - who have never ever had any kind of social media presence out side of education walled-gardens - start driving...

        Some people already think we're a bit "odd" for not having accounts, and it's been a battle getting schools to continue sending paper letters home, but it's definitely worth it

        M.

        1. VinceH

          "Some people already think we're a bit "odd" for not having accounts, and it's been a battle getting schools to continue sending paper letters home, but it's definitely worth it"

          Wait!

          What?

          Your kids' schools try to use social media for letters to parents? Why are they so bloody stupid? This is no better than companies who seem to want to advertise their Facebook presence rather their own website. At the very least, the school could use email - if the issue is one of reducing costs, then a simple email would do the job. (Just so long as they use a proper tool that's not going to make it far to easy to use CC instead of BCC)

          1. FuzzyWuzzys

            Do what they do at my daughter's school where they have their own private, secure online info service. Having registered already you simply get an email telling you there is new info available and you need to login to find out what it is, you login securely and pick up the info, no links or other guff and no public broadcast. Certainly not posted on some public site like FriendFace or Twatter!

            The thing about using the old paper method, other than destroying the environment to tell you the school disco is coming up, is that kids almost never remember to bring home important letters especially if it concerns something about them that parents might get miffed about. With the info being secure online, kids can't "accidentally" forget to give us the letters!

            1. Anonymous Coward
              Anonymous Coward

              "private, secure online info service"

              My sons' school did this ... however security was slightly compromised by having a single login for all paremts where the password (a) was the schools postcode and (b) remained the same for >5 years!

              As for kids not bringing paper letters home, the school, a new secondary school, avoided that problem in the first 2-3 years by sending out everything via post - I dread to think how much they spent on that!

  10. Commswonk

    Dreadful idea anyway...

    The logical endpoint of Admiral's idea is that if anyone doesn't have a "social media" profile* then they don't get car insurance, or that any insurance is at an unaffordable premium. What next? No job? No mortgage? No holiday booking?**

    On the plus side it might drive people off social media. And be the death knell of the growing narcissism of selfies.

    * OK I know it seems improbable.

    ** Admitted to getting a bit pissed one Friday and the airline won't touch a booking from you. And neither will the hotel.

    1. Dan 55 Silver badge

      Re: Dreadful idea anyway...

      So, Nosedive, then.

      Charlie Brooker can tick another one off the list.

      1. Korev Silver badge
        Pint

        Re: Dreadful idea anyway...

        I was about to post that!

    2. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: Dreadful idea anyway...

      Oh no!

      A world where you have to consider the impact of what you say before you say it.

      How will we survive?

      1. Dan 55 Silver badge

        Re: Dreadful idea anyway...

        Or...

        Oh no!

        A world where every inconsequential slip up years ago is recorded forever and made available for public viewing and comes back to haunt us in the present day instead of being put behind us and forgotten.

        1. Martin an gof Silver badge

          Re: Dreadful idea anyway...

          comes back to haunt us

          I believe this is already happening in some companies, where it's becoming a common practice for HR to search new applicants' social media footprint. At least Admiral (no, I can't stand their adverts either) are being upfront about it.

          M.

    3. Doctor Syntax Silver badge

      Re: Dreadful idea anyway...

      'The logical endpoint of Admiral's idea is that if anyone doesn't have a "social media" profile then they don't get car insurance'

      It depends on how you look at it. I'd regard not having a profile as in indicator of a sober, well-balanced personality and set the premium accordingly.

    4. Pascal Monett Silver badge

      Re: Dreadful idea anyway...

      The logical endpoint of Admiral's idea is that if anyone doesn't have a "social media" profile* then they don't get car insurance....

      Um, no. The logic, if you re-read the parts you missed in the article, is that first-time drivers can opt in to having their FB posts analyzed in the hope that their first-time premium will be lowered.

      Nothing in this scheme has anything to do with established drivers because those already have a cast-iron reputation with the insurance companies (either good or bad, they have their reputation).

      1. hplasm
        Childcatcher

        Re: Dreadful idea anyway...

        "Nothing in this scheme has anything to do with established drivers..."

        Yet. Like a discount? Stick with us! Oh- and give us your FB details...

  11. Mark 85

    Insurance now? Reminds of certain employers....

    I really hate to do this but kudos to FB. This reminds me of certain employers demanding your login and password to FB to check your "character". If you didn't have an FB account, they assumed you were hiding something. I'm of the belief, the insurance company would do the same.

  12. Herby

    Facebook?? Privacy??

    The mind boggles!

    Me? I don't say much on facebook. That which I do I understand that the public at large can see it.

    Scott McNealy was right!

  13. FlamingDeath Silver badge

    Duplicity

    The media have been deceiving you all & managing your perceptions for decades, why would this be any different?

    If faecesbook wants to do a backroom deal with a motor insurer, they don't need to tell you about it, it's already covered in the user agreement which you agreed to, under the section titled, sharing data with our partners. You agreed for faecesbook to have access to your camera etc.

    Ask the question, who told the media about the "failed" business to business deal?

    Faecesbook or Admiral?

    Not all news articles are as they seem, some are just made up PR stories, some are blatent advertisements, many if not all are slanted presentations, some are outright lies. Some may say conspiracy theorist or tin foil hat, but you only have to look at the previous 15 years alone to see the kind of times we currently find outselves "living" in. Depressing, I know.

    Don't even get me started on the remembrance poppy being rebranded into something horrifically fascist...

  14. The Nazz

    Just read Twitter then ...

    One of the accounts i occasionally peruse, a 21 year old woman, quite openly tweets her driving record :

    4 crashes to date, drives without her vision correcting spectacles, drives whilst under the influence upto 36 hours after nights out and brags that no one, i repeat no one, will ever beat her in a race home out through the suburbs.

    Presumably the police (UK) haven't noticed any of this as they're focussed on reading whether i've upset her in any way, say calling her a "fat bitch", she isn't. Numerous pouting selfies confirm this.

    Mind boggling.

    1. Doctor Syntax Silver badge

      Re: Just read Twitter then ...

      "4 crashes to date"

      I'd guess the insurers have a note of her record anyway without reading Twitter. That's assuming she's insured.

    2. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: Just read Twitter then ...

      Posting: Hi, I'm driving on the highway now.

    3. AndrewDu

      Re: Just read Twitter then ...

      And of course none of that could possibly be a fantasy.

      Definitely not.

  15. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    Executive meeting: mention social

    you would think that a voluntary car tracker + dashboard cam with an amount repayed if you are good would be the way to go.

    but i suppose then u have the customer service nightmare when the twits complain.

    1. mark 177
      Big Brother

      Re: Executive meeting: mention social

      There is already something similar on the market - my nephew has it. It monitors his driving vs. speed limits, and the mileage covered.

  16. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    Stop Admiral, Privacy-Raping is Facebook's Job:

    Zuck, just your local Sociopath.... Love the section at 38-42 mins:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U6akOK7Bupg

    "Zuckerberg has a panic attack while being interviewed"

    http://mpcdot.com/forums/topic/7610-zuckerberg-aspie-or-sociopath/

    1. JHC_97

      Re: Stop Admiral, Privacy-Raping is Facebook's Job:

      Wow just reading that forum was an eyeopener. It was so anti-semitic. Is it all like that.

  17. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    TwoFacedBook more like

    As someone that just lost their long standing twofacedbook account today under the real name policy I have no faith in TwoFacedBook regarding privacy. If they believed in my privacy they'd not have a real name policy.

  18. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    The noose tightens: How long before....

    All insurers get access to this data in a backroom deal with Zuck? Medical insurers especially.... Think it can't happen? Visitors to the United States must now give US Border Control all their social networking info...

  19. AbortRetryFail
    Joke

    Woody

    "I thank God that I wore my corset today, for I fear that my sides have split"

    ~~ E. Blackadder

    "Irony. It's like Goldy and Bronzey, only made of Iron"

    ~~ S. Baldrick

  20. Dr Scrum Master
    WTF?

    Zip code?

    on theregister.co.UK ?

    1. hplasm
      Coat

      Re: Zip code?

      YKK, mine says...

    2. whileI'mhere

      Re: Zip code?

      Not just that but I'm pretty sure Admiral never used a zip code to rate an applicant's premium, either.

  21. T. F. M. Reader

    Never say "never" on Facebook

    The heuristics (mentioned in other reports) the Admiral's algorithm would use look rather dubious to me. For instance, people who use words "never" or "always" would be regarded as overconfident and would get higher quotes, while people who prefer "maybe" would be regarded as cautious and thus safer drivers.

    So, if you are cautious, or just care about your car insurance premium, never say "never" on FB, and in general always watch what you post. Uh-oh, did my premium just go up? Or is the algo smart enough to analyse the context? Somehow I doubt it is...

  22. Neil Barnes Silver badge

    It strikes me

    that the way someone's social media posts are organised tells you as much about their driving habits as a kick in the bollocks tells you about the cobbler's pet goldfish.

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: It strikes me

      Well yes quite. "Textual analysis pointing to overconfidence" sounds like pseudoscience akin to phrenology to me.

  23. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    In other news

    The Thieves Guild has announced that it is taking further measures to prevent unauthorised muggings and burglaries, following an increase in the activities of unlicenced ne'er-do-wells in the districts bordering The Shades.

  24. sabroni Silver badge

    If I had a Facebook account and I wanted to share my posts with Admiral what would that have to do with Facebook? It's almost like they're not my posts...

  25. Olius

    So let's follow that example through:

    You try out the app to see if it gives you a cheaper quote. It doesn't.

    Admiral then "share that information with carefully selected 3rd parties"

    All your quotes from all insurance companies start coming back at AT LEAST Admiral's level. Forever.

  26. Dan McIntyre

    Insurers is just the latest. It's long been known that employers/potential employers and government agencies (Police, benefits offices etc) use Facebook info to make decisions and catch benefit cheats etc etc etc.

    It's not really anything new.

  27. Tom_

    Thought Facebook would love this

    Everyone would have to create new, corporate facing accounts under their real names. These would be the ones where all the posts were designed to make them look like careful drivers. Stuff like, "Gosh, I've had two cans of coke today. I thik I'd better catch the bus hme rather than drive with all that caffeine in my blood."

    Facebook can claim they have 100% more users.

    Meanwhile, everyone carries on using the site as normal under pseudonyms, posting stuff like, "shit the bed! im still so fucked from last night but gotto get to work. wears me car keys LOL!!!"

    1. hplasm
      Stop

      Re: Thought Facebook would love this

      "Everyone "

      You keep using that word...

  28. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    I call shenanigans!

    It's just a publicity stunt because Admiral know perfectly well that journo's will have a wank-fest over any suggestion of using facebook to assess people's driving skills. They'll claim to be analysing their twitter feeds live next.

    It should be bloody obvious because it would take years of research covering thousands of profiles of willing volunteers to even gather the stats data, then a not insignificant research effort to establish whether it has any correlation to driving at all. Even if you did all that it would likely not boil down to "organised people drive more safely" but more likely "males are more risky insurance prospects" which will in turn fall foul of the gender bias ban once someone points out that females are getting bigger discounts.

    Clearly they haven't done this which suggests it's come from the marketing dept rather than risk.

    Some "journos" should get a slap for taking this at face value, they should be ashamed of themselves.

  29. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    Dead cat bounce

    Privacy version.

  30. jeffty
    Trollface

    This leaves a number of unanswered questions....

    ... namely - what effect would your collection of dank facebook memes have on your insurance premium?

  31. Stevie

    Bah!

    IANAIA* but it seems to me they should have the actuarial tables sorted out before offering policies.

    * I Am Not An Insurance Agent

  32. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    But what if I'm not me therefore?

    Not sure how that's going to work on FB for me. I post under several different accounts on that site. Thank god (Putin) for Russian disposable email address servers...

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