back to article Smart Meter rollout delayed again. Cost us £11bn, eh?

The IT system that was to underpin Blighty's smart meter rollout remains unfinished as another yet another deadline whooshes by. The last time it missed a smart meter deadline, the UK Department for Business, Energy and Industrial Strategy (BEIS) promised that “the new infrastructure is planned to go live at the end of …

  1. TRT Silver badge
    Coffee/keyboard

    "A subsidiary company of Crapita (often comically referred to as "Capita" by Private Eye) "

    Genuine LOL. My colleagues are wondering what's so funny.

    1. kmac499

      Re: "A subsidiary company of Crapita (often comically referred to as "Capita" by Private Eye) "

      Crapita corporately twinned with that other tech titan CrApple

  2. WonkoTheSane
    Alert

    Smart meters have only ONE purpose

    The "streamlining" of meter reader numbers.

    1. SImon Hobson Bronze badge

      Re: Smart meters have only ONE purpose

      Actually that's low down the list.

      Top of the list is what's euphemistically referred to in the electricity supply industry as demand management. When people reassure us that "the lights will stay on" they are being slightly economical with the truth. What they really mean is that the lights will stay on for most of us, but some users (mostly large industrial users being bribed receiving a discount for being on an interruptible supply) will be asked to shut down.

      At the same time, these smart meters allow the cost to be hiked up so as to introduce price rationing so "poor people" will sit in the dark because they can't afford the lecky.

      And if that is not enough, then the meters have a remote disconnect feature so that we can have rolling blackouts like I remember from the 70s.

      .

      After all these features - ie the ones they don't tell anyone about, comes sacking meter readers.

      And ALL the claimed benefits for these meters could be done much more simply without the intrusive slurp of personal data that these systems will be doing. Funnily enough, in contrast to what the adverts lie about, I do know what Gaz and Lecky are up in my home : The lecky will be a few hundred watts as there's a dehumidifier running in the room we've had plastered and a computer running that serves up my TV. On the gas side, if the heating is on (which it won't be at this time of day) then we'll be burning gas, and if the heating isn't on then we won't. I don't need some intrusive pile of crap to tell me that switching things on uses lecky/gas ! The heating is automatic, as is the hot water, so I don't need remote control of them - "putting the water on", how 1970s !

      1. Triggerfish

        Re: Smart meters have only ONE purpose

        At the same time, these smart meters allow the cost to be hiked up so as to introduce price rationing so "poor people" will sit in the dark because they can't afford the lecky.

        Yeah well since they were told to stop being twats with prepayment meters they need another way to tax the poor.

      2. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        Re: Smart meters have only ONE purpose

        Demand management is already happening and has no strong reliance on SMART. Super markets turning off fridges as people arrive home from work etc being one example.

        I think there isn't much obvious direct value for the consumer in SMART, anyone who has tried an energy monitor will know you watch it for a week learn your appliances then stop bothering.

        It will however make understanding demand easier and could lead to more informed purchasing of energy by suppliers. It could also make the challenges that solar and other micro generation puts into the mix because distribution level energy can only be estimated as it's invisible at a transmission level. It would be much easier to manage, if useage at a more granular level is allowed and accessible. Although some would argue its already being managed fine without that info.

        Whether it is worth the cost, well many analysts say not. In fact Germany rejected smart on grounds that cost exceeded the value.

      3. Cynic_999

        Re: Smart meters have only ONE purpose

        "

        The lecky will be a few hundred watts as there's a dehumidifier running in the room we've had plastered and a computer running that serves up my TV.

        "

        You could probably save on your food bills by getting a fridge and/or freezer :-)

        I suspect that those "few hundred watts" are close to a kW. Check the consumption of the dehumidifier (probably about 500W) and computer (maybe 200W). You say you use the computer for TV - don't you therefore also have a TV switched on?

        1. Anonymous Coward
          Anonymous Coward

          Re: Smart meters have only ONE purpose

          Years ago I had a PC connected to the telly. "Home Server" it took 140w 24/7 or probably more than every low energy buky in the flat at once. Ditched it for minitix baesed thing (40w) paied for its self.

          Now I have a cloud server (even cheaper) Chromecast, Swich, PI, all go off with the telly. Just the router on when I'm out.

          PC's are horrendous for power.

        2. SImon Hobson Bronze badge

          Re: Smart meters have only ONE purpose

          You could probably save on your food bills by getting a fridge and/or freezer :-)

          OK smarta**, and there's a broadband router as well. Fridge and freezer between them take a fairly low average amount of power.

          Check the consumption of the dehumidifier (probably about 500W)

          Not far off, it's a fairly small one - but I do know what it's using and having a smart meter won't make it use any less ! And it's doing a needed job anyway, there's still a few gallons of water to extract from the walls before they are dry enough to start decorating - heat alone won't do it, especially as there's no radiators until I put the new ones in which I'll be doing after we decorate.

          and computer (maybe 200W)

          About 50W actually - and yes I have measured it !

          You say you use the computer for TV - don't you therefore also have a TV switched on?

          Not when there's no one in to watch it. But the server is busy recording stuff I want when it's on so I can watch it when we want. MythTV - like SkyQ but without the rentals and vendor lockin !

          But the main point is that all these are fairly easily known values. I don't need to know when the compressor in the freezer is running and it's taking about 200W, and when it's idle (taking about 3W) - just that it's average consumption is some figure which I forget now :-( Basically, if we're not in, then we don't really care as thing will take what they need - and if they are needed then switching them off isn't really an option. When we are in, then again, things we switch on take what they need to do what we want them to do, and we switch them off when we no longer need them doing something - eg we don't leave the oven on after use "because we CBA to turn it off" !

      4. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        Re: Smart meters have only ONE purpose

        Its nothing new industrial users have always been paid for 'generating' leccy by turning off plant.

        smart meters however are a total con, a novelty for a while after which no one will care about saving 20p off their bill by switching something off, most have given up switching as it's a pain in the backside to save a few quid and life is too short, the only people who would recommend one are the ones who can't be arsed to read their meter once every few months.

        Someone tried to install one at my mates house, they were quite forceful and economical with the truth but they got told where to go.

        Be careful what you swih for the last few months has shown that the internet is easy to disable, easy to hack and easy to exploit just as smart meters will be. Can just see some muppet driving up and down streets having discovered a drive by (pun intended) which allows them to switch houses on and off at will. Cars have already been hacked so what makes you think smart meters costing a few quid each are going to be secure?

        Finally can you image the argument with some call centre person in India when you get a bill for a few thousand because your smart meter has given a mis-reading?

    2. Voland's right hand Silver badge

      Re: Smart meters have only ONE purpose

      Not even that.

      The streamlining of the process of disconnecting the luser and having a "not us govnor, computer did it" excuse for freezing grannies to death in winter.

      1. TRT Silver badge

        Re: excuse for freezing grannies to death in winter.

        Have they thought of teaming up with Soylent?

    3. TheVogon

      Re: Smart meters have only ONE purpose

      "The "streamlining" of meter reader numbers."

      You forgot cutting off the supply without entering the property for non payers...

      1. veti Silver badge

        Re: Smart meters have only ONE purpose

        You forgot cutting off the supply without entering the property for non payers...

        You say that as if it's a bad thing. How would you rather your electricity company dealt with non-payers?

        (a) Just ignore them, let everyone else pick up the tab. That'll work until "everyone else" catches on and stops paying too. So, probably about a month.

        (b) Send out a quiet, inoffensive man in a dark suit to sneak onto the property, find the meter and disconnect it manually, if they can. If they can't, then fall back to (a).

        (c) Send out an entire squad of burly goons to kick in the door, subdue the inhabitants and smash the meter with a crowbar

        (d) Flick a switch in a remote office somewhere

        What's your preferred option?

        In answering, bear in mind that whatever is done to disconnect it has a big effect on what will need to be done to reconnect it.

        1. bazza Silver badge

          Re: Smart meters have only ONE purpose

          Round our way the installers are taking the opportunity to do a quick survey of your electrics, gas appliances.

          1990's houses here, so of course they're finding "lots to be done", and their reports are designed to scare people into getting lots of unnecessary work done. Some people have fallen for it...

        2. This post has been deleted by its author

        3. TheVogon

          Re: Smart meters have only ONE purpose

          "You say that as if it's a bad thing."

          I say it as a customer that is paying my share of £11 billion for it when it has zero direct benefit to me...

          "How would you rather your electricity company dealt with non-payers?"

          The same way they do now. Be forced to use legal methods to physically access the property.

  3. nuked

    The gravy train rolls on...

    1. Doctor Syntax Silver badge

      "The gravy train rolls on..."

      Continuing to pay Crapita to fail to roll it out might not be the worst outcome.

      1. enormous c word

        "The gravy train rolls on..."

        Crapita employ or subcontract an awful lot of former public senior civil servants approaching retirement .

        I wonder how they get all these massive contracts....

        1. Catweazle666

          Re: "The gravy train rolls on..."

          Brown envelopes of course.

  4. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    Shafted at both ends

    My energy supplier offered us smart metering. It suited us, on the basis that we wouldn't have to crawl into the cupboard and send them readings. But it turned out that they couldn't do the gas one, some problem with their technology. So we have still have to read it and send them readings every damn month. And the electric one is just another meter where the original one was - with no external panel of info. But at least we don't have to read that one.

    Meanwhile, God help us- I live in the London Borough of Capita - which roughly corresponds to the area once called Barnet.

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: Shafted at both ends

      And the electric one is just another meter where the original one was - with no external panel of info.

      Phone up and complain if that matters to you. It is a licence condition that all smart meters are offered with an "in home display", and if they haven't offered you one they are in breach of that.

    2. Elmer Phud

      Re: Shafted at both ends

      Also living in the model for Easy Council (flog it all, flog the lot! then praise yourself) I have declined the possibility of a 'smart meter'.

      I just don't trust any of the buggers.

      Crapita has a looooong history of screwing over Barnet while the leader buy themselves new laptops, iPads etc.

  5. Roger Kynaston
    Mushroom

    Just wait for them to be pwned

    Must be a wet dream for the IoT DDOSers having a load of internet connected devices in every home. Bet Crapita can't do security.

    1. Gio Ciampa

      Re: Just wait for them to be pwned

      They can... but only for their own backsides when the you-know-what hits the fan...

      Only reason I can think of that explains how - despite everything - they still keep being awarded contracts.

    2. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: Just wait for them to be pwned

      Their uplink bandwidth is negligible for this to be of interest.

      Now, pwning the grid by making them go up/down a few times until the grid failsafe mechanisms kicking - that is a different story.

      1. TRT Silver badge

        Re: IoT DDOSers

        IP on your electricity meter? Might get a shock somewhere unpleasant...

    3. Tom 7

      Re: Just wait for them to be pwned

      Experimenting with pizero and camera and ocr to actually read the current electricity price and automate stuff. For around £100 (one for viewing one for switching the hot water on) should save that money in a year - not quite pwning but as far as the electricity company is concerned that's fucked the meter.

    4. John Brown (no body) Silver badge

      Re: Just wait for them to be pwned

      "Must be a wet dream for the IoT DDOSers having a load of internet connected devices in every home. Bet Crapita can't do security."

      The strange thing, is, smart meters are not new. They've been rolled out in a number of locations/countries for quite a few years now. And yet we've not actually seen meterageddon anywhere yet. Not saying it can't happen. Not even saying it's unlikely (I've refused one from my gas/leccy suppliers on security grounds) but still we are not seeing headlines of individuals being shut off, never mind whole cities.

  6. SImon Hobson Bronze badge

    ... research shows that eight in ten people with a smart meter would recommend one

    Err, I think they mean "8 in 10 people fell for the outright lies".

    1. Kevin Johnston

      Stats

      Actually I see it more that not even all of the most rabid fans of Smart meters would recommend them...

    2. katrinab Silver badge

      I think they mean that 95.6% of statistics are made up on the spot.

    3. smudge
      WTF?

      Ten people have a smart meter???

    4. Chris G

      "eight in ten people with a smart meter 'would' recommend one."

      Would recommmend one if was actually of any real use, but it's not.

  7. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    But it will be invaluable in case zombie apocalypse occurs

    Just switch off the energy supply to houses with zombified people inside, thus keeping the undead confused, cold and in the dark.

    1. TRT Silver badge

      Re: But it will be invaluable in case zombie apocalypse occurs

      You point at the electricity meter and say "Look, that's smart, it has brains..." and then watch them chomping into a 100-amp supply cable.

    2. Stumpy

      Re: But it will be invaluable in case zombie apocalypse occurs

      Just switch off the energy supply to houses with zombified people inside, thus keeping the undead confused, cold and in the dark.

      So, that's anyone who watches Big Brother, X Factor, Strictly, etc, etc, etc ... then?

  8. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    Night Terrors and cats falling over from these things!

    I know several people who have independently reported having "night terrors" after having one of these fitted. Either that, or a feeling that there is something creepy in the house. Like a spirit.

    Posting anonymously, as I consider myself a Humanist and don't subscribe to this mumbo jumbo... but this does seem to affect people, and one of them didn't even know he had a smart meter. But moved bedrooms because he couldn't sleep.

    Also, another friend has a cat that stopped being able to walk properly and kept falling over as soon as one was installed. Now they have had it removed, the cat is gradually getting better. I don't think kitty was even aware that they had a smart meter.

    Could this be "a thing" or just a massive coincidence?

    1. 's water music

      Re: Night Terrors and cats falling over from these things!

      I know several people who have independently reported having "night terrors" ...Also, another friend has a cat that stopped being able to walk properly ...

      Could this be "a thing" or just a massive coincidence?

      Definitely a thing. Probably witchcraft. I would suggest that anyone affected should immediately unscrew the devil meter from wall and dunk it in a bucket of water to see whether or not it floats

      1. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        Re: Night Terrors and cats falling over from these things!

        Well I'm just trying to keep an open mind about it. Not so open that all the logic falls out though. Looking on the web for this there's loads of anecdotal stories of the same thing, especially from America... but that doesn't help very much. You can find pretty much anything. (Again, Especially from America).

    2. smudge
      Devil

      Re: Night Terrors and cats falling over from these things!

      Their operating system contains daemons.

      1. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        Re: Night Terrors and cats falling over from these things!

        Preparation for case nightmare green. Nigel is in on it, wants to cut off any mainland infection before it happens. These smartmeters probably contain earthly leftovers from people tortured to death by ISIS and shipped via Turkey. This also explains the panicky push for modernization of Trident.

  9. magickmark
    Thumb Up

    Obligatory Douglas Adams quote

    “I love deadlines. I love the whooshing noise they make as they go by.” ― Douglas Adams, The Salmon of Doubt

  10. jms222

    They still have to do inspections every year or two sending snottograms when they can't with all manner of hollow threats.

  11. batfink
    Flame

    What's the advantage to the consumer?

    I have a monitor clipped to my incoming leccy line. It tells me how much I'm using at any given time, and I had a good time with a related power-point plug measuring usage of individual appliances. This was all good fun, and useful in that I now have a pretty good idea what machinery is dragging what in my house. And the fact that I have an overnight mystery 300W drag somewhere, but that's a different story.

    Gas I don't have instant data for, but my only usage is heating and hot water, both of which are on when I need it. Monthly readings are close enough for that.

    So, according to the propaganda, I have achieved everything that the Smart Meter rollout is supposed to do for us, with the exception of saving me the walk around the side of the house once a month. And the gear I bought to do it (second-hand, tbf) cost me about £20.

    It has had some benefits, but not in the way the propaganda would have you expect. Having now worked out the leccy consumption of my ancient fridge, I have now worked out that the payback time of buying a new, more efficient one is measured in decades, so now I'm less likely to do that than before. Ditto for washing machine & dryer. However, I suppose for most punters, unable or unwilling to RTFM, having an in-home display of what it's costing them every time they put the dryer on might drive some changes in behaviour.

    If the stated aim is that we're all going to save ££ by knowing our consumption, then all they need to do is send one of these meters in the post to each household in the country, and let us get on with it. We don't need a "phone home" capability to do that. At a guesstimate of a tenner each, that'd be IRO £270M, plus postage.

    So, what is it, exactly, that we are supposed to gain from the expenditure of the other £10,730M? Surely it wouldn't be remote control of our energy supplies...

    1. Paul 25

      Re: What's the advantage to the consumer?

      Glad I'm not the only one.

      The potential annual savings that people claim are frankly minuscule compared with all my other outgoings, and certainly too small to warrant drastic changes like replacing the fridge or oven, or less drastic ones like preemptively changing the lightbulbs.

      The irony of course is that those who would benefit the most from reducing their energy bills are generally those without the cash to do something about it. I'm sure a lot of people on the bread line would like to save £20 a month by upgrading their electrical appliances, but they are a bit stuffed by not having the money to do so. The best most of them can do is to turn things off, and you don't need a smart meter to tell you that.

      The only significant benefit I can see to these is not having to scrabble around in the understairs cupboard to take a meter reading, everything else is overblown BS.

      1. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        Re: What's the advantage to the consumer?

        "The only significant benefit I can see to these is not having to scrabble around in the understairs cupboard to take a meter reading, everything else is overblown BS."

        I still don't see that as a benefit. Even with a meter fitted, I would still be scrabbling around in the cupboard checking the readings periodically - I do not trust automated readings one bit.

        An example I experienced was with a well known London datacentre, who I discovered were massively over-billing me for electricity. I was able to determine this easily thanks to having a network-connected PDU in my rack, so was able to prove that the current draw in our rack just did not add up to what they were billing us for. Got a massive refund eventually, and was told that they were 'working with their supplier' to 'recallibrate their equipment'.

    2. JetSetJim

      Re: What's the advantage to the consumer?

      》 So, what is it, exactly, that we are supposed to gain from the expenditure of the other £10,730M? Surely it wouldn't be remote control of our energy supplies

      Mustn't forget all the billable consultants and lobbyist hours

    3. Cynic_999

      Re: What's the advantage to the consumer?

      I have a remote lekky meter, and I do find it useful. Every evening I glance at it on my way to bed, and it alerts me if I've left anything switched on that shouldn't be. It's saved me from leaving a soldering iron and (another time) the grill on all night, both potential fire risks.

    4. MonkeyCee

      Re: What's the advantage to the consumer?

      Ah, actual repayment times. Great fun :)

      It's like the weird attitudes people have towards lightbulbs. I want a 900-1200 lumen bulb in a e27 fitting, with 10-20k hour lifespan. My options are a filament bulb (100 watts, 1 euro), CFL (23 watts, 2 euro) LED 900 lumen (12 watt, 12 euro) and LED 1200 lumen (17 watt, 20 euro). The CFL are head and shoulders above the others, but get pretty much all the hate. The LEDs will pay back their additional costs at roughly a euro per thousand hours(20 cents per kwh) , so for normal use after about 6 years. Which is around the lifetime of the bulb.

      Or for solar PV*. The companies will INSIST you calcualte the ROI assuming you use all the power you generate, and you cost that power at full retail. Despite the fact that isn't ever going to happen, and some 30-60% will go to the grid at some fraction of the retail price, which roughly halves the value of the generated power. Thus most go from a 5-6 year repayment to 10 year repayment, which means the frequency and cost of replacing the inverter becomes a fairly major factor.

      This is not to say you shouldn't do these things, but that the ROI is vastly overstated, and often involves sinking a large chunk of cash up front. Same as running old appliances until they die, even going from a C to an A+ energy rating will only save you tens of pounds each year.

      Oh, and your 300W mystery nightime draw? That's the weed plantation next door ;) 250W for the lights, 50 for the fans and pumps.

      * Depending on FIT, subsidies and tax credits, PV can totally be worth it. But that's political :)

      1. Doctor Syntax Silver badge

        Re: What's the advantage to the consumer?

        "The CFL are head and shoulders above the others"

        That depends on your application. If you want something that gives you your 900-1200lm in little used circulation space, say a hall & landing fitting CFL is going to disappoint. Switch it on when you enter the space & it still won't have reached full brightness when you exit. The older it gets, the worse it gets. You're going to have to leave it on & waste the efficiency. Even your filament bulb is going to be better at that job.

        1. MonkeyCee

          Re: What's the advantage to the consumer?

          " If you want something that gives you your 900-1200lm in little used circulation space,"

          Not sure which CFLs you're using, as there does seem to be a bit of variance around. The first few generations where certainly iffy with certain applications. But for the ones I've got (Callex branded, made in China) they chuck out ~850 lumen on start, getting to 1100 after about 5 seconds, which should do the job even if you are only switching it on for a few seconds.

          But the main point is that you'd be mad to change a bulb that works well for current purpose, and should last until it gets physically broken in that use case. 50 years maybe before it wears out from use :)

          I've got various fitting that probably have filaments in them. Too little used, and too much hassle to open them when they aren't actually broken.

      2. DavCrav

        Re: What's the advantage to the consumer?

        "It's like the weird attitudes people have towards lightbulbs. I want a 900-1200 lumen bulb in a e27 fitting, with 10-20k hour lifespan. My options are a filament bulb (100 watts, 1 euro), CFL (23 watts, 2 euro) LED 900 lumen (12 watt, 12 euro) and LED 1200 lumen (17 watt, 20 euro). The CFL are head and shoulders above the others, but get pretty much all the hate. The LEDs will pay back their additional costs at roughly a euro per thousand hours(20 cents per kwh) , so for normal use after about 6 years. Which is around the lifetime of the bulb."

        1) I'm surprised that you claim that an LED bulb lasts no longer than a standard incandescent bulb, but OK.

        2) Your LED bulbs are ludicrously expensive. Even in Brexit Britain, with a pound that's worth nothing, I can get LED bulbs for about €7.

        3) CFLs are not liked because of the light they emit, the time it takes to warm up, and the presence of mercury.

        4) I think your calculations are way off. A 100W bulb uses €1 of electricity in 50 hours at 20c/kWhr. An LED, with your wattages, uses at most a fifth of that, so you say more than 80c every 50 hours. After a thousand hours the difference is more than €16.

      3. mootpoint

        Re: What's the advantage to the consumer?

        Your calculations seem quite off to me. I recently replaced all the bulbs in my 5 bed house with LEDs. They were previously a mixture of filament, CF and halogen GU10. The monthly leccy bill went from around £80 to under £50. The bulbs cost £90 delivered. They paid for themselves in 3 months!

        The biggest hurdle was persuading the missus to try LED. She really liked the warm glow of tungsten filament, to the extent of hunting down the bulbs from dodgy corner shops. She hated CF, and I agree, the light is awful, with a cold purple-green cast. But LED has come a long way recently - you can get warm 3400K bulbs with the same colour temperature as tungsten. You can even get clear bulbs with LED "filaments" that are almost indistinguishable from tungsten. And they're dimmable too. For around £5-6 a bulb.

      4. TonyHoyle

        Re: What's the advantage to the consumer?

        I did wonder how people were quoting those repayment times.. I reliably calculate 20 years.. I did pay quite a bit more than they cost now, but I have the higher FIT to make up for it.

        In practice the effect on energy consumption is minimal. They work during the day when I'm at work and the house is just drawing baseline, and don't work in the evenings when I'm at home and everything is on. Hence in practice they might have saved maybe £5 a month, except in winter when they rarely even generate baseline.

        FIT is around £300-£500 a year. £8k initial cost. 20 years is about right. Not that I mind - those are the same calcs that I was seeing online when I initially bought them - wanted them because they're cool tech not because they save money.

  12. Len Goddard

    Free?

    My supplier offered me one for free. I told them it was too expensive.

    1. kmac499

      Re: Free?

      And for those of us with our own nuclear power station on the roof (i.e. Solar panels) They don't work with them as they can't handle reverse power feeds. A really good incentive to power savvy comsumers.

      1. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        Re: Free?

        They don't work with them as they can't handle reverse power feeds.

        If you're talking about a UK smart meter compliant with the mandatory SMETS2 specification, it most certainly can handle export power, as specified in the SMETS2 standard, various places, but starting at item 5.5.9.2. Whether all the intermediary systems are in place to make this work in a practical way is another matter, but the meters are all required to have the capability.

        At the moment most PV export payments are "deemed", which means they guess that PV owners export 50% of their power, but with smart meters this will change, and people who use more than 50% of their PV generation will get lower export payments, people who use less than 50% will get more. In the real world this redsitribution effect will only be worth ten or fifteen quid a year, so the usual UK energy policy outcome - a costly, complicated change that helps nobody.

        1. Doctor Syntax Silver badge

          Re: Free?

          so the usual UK energy policy outcome - a costly, complicated change that helps nobody the usual suspects.

        2. TonyHoyle

          Re: Free?

          The electricity companies are refusing to install smart meters in houses with solar PV stating that smart meters can't work with them, so whatever the standards might say the companies that have to actually implement this stuff say they don't work.

  13. Anonymous Coward Silver badge
    Boffin

    "benefits of more accurate bills and better control of their gas and electricity use"

    My bills are already 100% accurate. Even if the odd month gets 'estimated', that is corrected in the subsequent month.

    Better control... well, all of my electricity-consuming devices have an ingenious attachment called an 'off switch'. My gas appliances total exactly zero because you can't be bothered connecting me to mainline gas. I know how much is being consumed thanks to a little clip-on gadget which was provided for free, and another current transformer that I have hooked up to a LCD panel (I think I paid ~£3 for that one).

    There are no benefits to the consumer in the current incarnation of the smart meter plans. None at all.

    1. Paul 25

      I would quite like one, simply because our meters are in an awkward to reach position in the under stairs cupboard, other than that you're right, no real benefit to most people.

    2. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      "My bills are already 100% accurate. Even if the odd month gets 'estimated', that is corrected in the subsequent month."

      Mnnn you may think so.

      I had an electricity meter that I monitored every week for online recording (can't remember the service) the display started to fade so I called the company and they agreed to replace this faulty meter.

      Strangely after the meter was replaced my use dropped significantly.

      No where on the meter does it have a calibration to national standard mark or recalibration date.

      Some of these are probably quite wrong (+20%) but the average home owner will never know.

      Also there was that habit of charging against the property not user so you could move into a house with a prepayment that was set to recover previous debts (not your own). I think that may have been the case before this "faulty" meter.

      Which or someone should install calibrated meters after the suppliers in random locations.

      lets see who is telling the truth.

      1. Mike Shepherd
        Meh

        "let's see who is telling the truth"

        Why not check your printed electricity bill? It shows meter readings and how charges are calculated. As for 20% errors, you're dreaming. Domestic meters are typically "class 2" (maximum 2% error throughout the certified life). Have some bedtime reading :

        https://www.gov.uk/guidance/gas-and-electricity-meter-regulations

        1. Anonymous Coward
          Anonymous Coward

          Re: "let's see who is telling the truth"

          Well that is not my personal experience was something like 15% drop from one meter to the next so have recorded readings from before and after but figured chasing the supplier for over payment without any way to prove it other than readings from the display was a dead end.

  14. wyatt

    I think Claire Maugham is talking bollocks. I'll have to keep avoiding what she is saying as it's lies.

  15. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    Had them installed about 8 months ago, have never worked, dispite being changed twice. Best British Gas could say is we know they are not ready to install yet, but we have to meet the government deadline

  16. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    Let me guess..

    .. each month of delay is still bringing revenue to Capita because they managed to get the contract written that way?

    If they don't get fined for each month this is delayed, I would call the delay not unfortunate.

    I would call it unavoidable.

  17. JimboSmith Silver badge

    As they're not compulsory I won't be touching them with a barge pole. See here to confirm this:

    http://www.which.co.uk/consumer-rights/advice/do-i-have-to-accept-a-smart-meter

    http://www.publications.parliament.uk/pa/cm201011/cmhansrd/cm111129/text/111129w0004.htm

    We can thank GCHQ for beefing up the security as they looked at the initial plans and recoiled in horror. Some bright spark wanted to use the same decryption key for all the meters and I think most of us (though clearly not all) know that's asking for trouble. The SmartEnergyGB website is a fun read especially the FAQ page (https://www.smartenergygb.org/en/faqs) and provided me with a few laughs my personal favourite being:

    ......Does a smart meter mean my energy can be cut off more easily?

    ......No. You’re protected by strict regulations against your energy supplier switching off or disconnecting your gas or electricity supply. This protection remains as strong with smart meters as it is with traditional meters.

    So from that can I deduce that there won't be a provision in the meter to cut off the supply remotely? Well no I can't because it doesn't mention anything (technical or otherwise) about the ability of the people I pay for my energy (or some nefarious player) to remotely disconnect my supply. When the supply goes dead to a house maybe because of a Fat Finger Incident or worse, consumers can rest easy as they shiver waiting for the supply to be switched back on. They'll know that the protection remains as strong with smart meters as it is with traditional meters where someone would most likely have had to gain entry to their house to do that rather than by remote control. Does this mean that Electrickery companies are going to have someone there 24/7 just in case something goes wrong out of hours (unlikely) or will UK Power Networks who serve London be able to switch you back on (even more unlikely)?

    This has cock up written all over it and I won't be having it in my house thank you.

    1. John Mangan

      @Jimbo Smith

      I've posted on here before that when I was offered a free smart meter by my supplier I asked a number of questions about security that they "couldn't answer for security reasons". Then, after some quick searches revealed exactly which meters I would be getting, I found the link you've provided which, in fairness, answered most of my questions and alleviated a number of my concerns.

      I forwarded the link to my supplier to share with other consumers and to sh*t on their claim that the questions couldn't be answered.

      I'm still not having a smart meter though.

      1. JimboSmith Silver badge

        Re: @Jimbo Smith

        I've posted this before but this was my take on some of their FAQ's

        ......What is a smart meter?

        ......Smart meters are the new generation of gas and electricity meters. They are being installed in homes across Great Britain at no extra cost, to replace the traditional meters, including prepay key meters, most of us currently have ticking away under the stairs, or outside our homes.

        Now call me cynical if you like but won't the cost of the meter and installation just get added to the bill they send me? It might not be that obvious they probably won't add a Smart Meter charge to my bill. It will probably just be that all the tariffs come with slightly higher prices. I just can't see the energy firms just stumping up for this roll out out of their own pockets. Smart Meters cost £340-£400 each I believe.

        So security:

        .......How secure are smart meters?

        .......The smart meter security system is very secure. Security has been at the heart of the whole smart meter rollout programme from its very inception and right through the design process. Smart meters have their own closed, dedicated communications system that employs technology widely used by, for example, the banking industry. Smart meters have been designed with top cyber security experts, including the government and GCHQ, to ensure that security best practice has been incorporated at every stage.

        Well Thank goodness for GCHQ then because according to an article on the inquirer.net (I couldn't find it on El Reg) the original plans for the meters had one single decryption key for all the meters.

        Now I may not be a top security boffin or even boffing a top security boffin but I do know that's not a really good idea. Apparently neither do GCHQ think it's big or clever as it was them who thankfully had things changed.

        http://www.theinquirer.net/inquirer/news/2451793/gchq-intervenes-to-prevent-catastrophically-insecure-uk-smart-meter-plan

        ......What are the technical standards that smart meters have to meet?

        ......Smart meters are covered by strict UK and EU product safety laws. These ensure that smart meters all have the same high quality and safety standards, regardless of your energy supplier.

        So everyone is clear now on the technical standards after reading that? So we move on to:

        ......What health and safety tests have been carried out on smart meters?

        ......The smart meters used in Britain have undergone one of the most rigorous safety testing regimes in the world and exceed every UK and EU safety standard. Public Health England, the government's agency on public health, has said that exposure to radio waves from smart meters is well within guideline levels, and is many times lower than the exposure from wifi and mobile phones.

        So everyone is clear now on the exact health and safety tests after reading that?

        1. Anonymous Coward
          Anonymous Coward

          Re: @Jimbo Smith

          Nowhere near £300 glad to report...

          Have a look at the latest SMETS2 spec if you are interested in security. I couldn't find a 2016 one online but found an older 2014 one https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/381535/SMIP_E2E_SMETS2.pdf

    2. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      From 2018 the regs state it will be no longer be allowed for anyone fit a non-smart meter fitted (unless there are technical reasons it won't work e.g cellar loations),. You're getting one eventually whether you want one or not I suspect, even if it takes until it gets a fault or the battery runs out.

      1. JimboSmith Silver badge

        From 2018 the regs state.....

        Do you have a source for that comment?

      2. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        I'm just going to faraday cage my utilities cupboard if that's true.

  18. IsJustabloke
    Stop

    Gaz and Leccy... hio ho ho....

    I like the way the advert says "You're entitled to claim a smart meter from your supplier at no extra cost" as if it were some kind of prize...

    TBH They're gonna need a court order to get one attached to my house. I'm in full control of my utilities thanks very much.

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: Gaz and Leccy... hio ho ho....

      I like the way the advert says "You're entitled to claim a smart meter from your supplier at no extra cost" as if it were some kind of prize...

      A stroke of genius, if you're trying to roll out anything, surely? The great British public are complete suckers for "free". It is almost as though there's a very common gene that means whenever afflicted people hear or read the word "free" it triggers the total suspension of all critical faculties.

      A "free" web browser? Wow! Why pay for Netscape!

      A "free" phone OS? Fab! And no downside.

      A "free" upgrade to WIndows 10? Fill your boots!

      A "free" rooftop PV installation? And free electricity too!

  19. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    Get "Gaz and Leccy" under control.

    Seems like we need to get Crapita under control instead.

  20. Anonymous Coward
    Stop

    Read my lips:

    I DO NOT WANT A SMART METER.

    There's nothing smart about them, dumbest way I've ever heard to flush £11bn £12bn £13bn £14bn £15bn down the toilet. That £15bn sure would help Britain's wafer thin winter generating capacity safety margin rather than the largest botnet ever installed.

    This will only end in failure and big bills for the consumer.

  21. Neil Spellings

    No tin hat here

    British Gas offered me a smart meter. Didn't cost anything (directly) so I went for it.

    Now don't have an annoying guy with a lanyard appearing at the door each quarter.

    Get daily utilisation stats instead of quarterly.

    Daughter can visibly see the impact of leaving the front door open (on the gas/heating usage)

    I pay my bill on time by DD so have no concern about getting cut off by someone in a control room in Swindon.

    If someone fat-fingers a disconnection, I'll call up and report it like any other power outage.

    Once domestic appliances can participate in load management, I know I'll be doing my bit to reduce the need for large coal power stations to provide the peak capacity buffers.

    Really don't see what all the paranoia is about. Just my 2p...

    1. MrKrotos

      Re: No tin hat here

      "I pay my bill on time by DD so have no concern about getting cut off by someone in a control room in Swindon."

      Yeah because paying by DD makes so much difference HAHAH!

      1. Neil Spellings

        Re: No tin hat here

        "Yeah because paying by DD makes so much difference HAHAH!"

        Makes a difference to me.

        It means all my bills are paid ontime and thus no need to bariccade myself inside from the guy armed with bolt croppers coming to disconnect me.

        1. Boris the Cockroach Silver badge
          FAIL

          Re: No tin hat here

          Quote:

          It means all my bills are paid ontime and thus no need to bariccade myself inside from the guy armed with bolt croppers coming to disconnect me.

          ---

          nope they'll disconnect you because RBS banking service has fallen over again, and failed to transfer your DD to blitish gas at 4.59pm on a friday, the blitish gas computer decides you are in unauthorised arrears and cuts you off.

          A swift phone call at 5.35pm when you get in reveals that all of blitish gas's customer service agents are busy dealing with the fall out and you need someone sent round to verify you're not in arrears anyway.

          After that, please allow 5 working days for your smart meter to reconnect you.

          Does that sound cynical? does it? or does that have the nasty ring of truth around it?

          Either way, the only 2 reasons I can see for smart meters is to cut off non payers remotely, and to cut off everyone when the power generating system falls over due to some idiots spending 15 billion on smart meters and fuck all on generating capacity.

    2. JimboSmith Silver badge

      Re: No tin hat here

      If someone fat-fingers a disconnection, I'll call up and report it like any other power outage.

      So I'm guessing on Saturday at 8pm in the teeth of a winter storm with freezing temperatures when your supply is killed you'll be calling the Distribution Network Operator for your area. Will they say that they can't re-enable the meter it's not their meter and you'll need to talk to your energy company British Gas? If so are you going to get hold of someone at 8pm on a Saturday night? Someone who can switch your supply back on? Seriously, without the need to take anything else from them like a homecare package? I doubt it but will be happy for British Gas to prove me wrong.

    3. Roland6 Silver badge

      Re: No tin hat here

      Daughter can visibly see the impact of leaving the front door open (on the gas/heating usage)

      But she isn't paying the bill, plus if she can visibly see the impact of leaving the front door open on energy usage, she is also in a position to physically feel the impact of leaving the front door open and hear others calling out "shut the f**king door".

      The real problem isn't leaving the door open whilst you are in the house but not closing it properly on exit... Now given the IoT perhaps what is needed is an app that every time a teenager steps outside of the house, they get a message on their phone to remind them to close the front door and blocks facebook, twitter etc. until the phone gets confirmation that the front door actually is closed...

      I pay my bill on time by DD so have no concern about getting cut off by someone in a control room in Swindon.

      Clearly, someone who has been in permanent employment all their life and expect it to continue, and also expects to receive a comfortable pension, so probably a civil servant...

    4. Doctor Syntax Silver badge

      Re: No tin hat here

      "If someone fat-fingers a disconnection, I'll call up and report it like any other power outage."

      You'll then be told they didn't do it, it's a faulty meter. It'll be replaced within two working days. There'll need to be somebody there to let the technician into the house.

      1. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        Re: No tin hat here

        "If someone fat-fingers a disconnection, I'll call up and report it like any other power outage."

        I'd invest in some jumper cables, heavy-gauge wire strippers and thick leather gloves. The thing is, a lot of freezing grannies wouldn't.

  22. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    @ofgem = {hashtag} #Fuseless / F'useless.

    Is there anyone that actually wants a Smartmeter?, if they think it will reduce their Energy costs they are deluded. This is about manipulating the consumer with deals that will be so complex, they will never know the true cost of their Energy.

    Ofgem, have a single completely blinkered approach - vain attempts of trying to increase competition, they should really give up and just concentrate on increasing Customer Service levels to something even marginally acceptable.

  23. Number6

    Not Late Yet

    The text suggests that BEIS said it would be ready by the end of September, but did they say which September?

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: Not Late Yet

      Sounds like the Dreams Bed Sale, which ends 'Monday', but which Monday?

  24. JaitcH
    Happy

    What's to Reinvent? With Successful Deployment in the USA and Many Other Countries ...

    the hard work has been done. But, as is often the case, the UK government wants to reinvent the wheel.

    I live in an area of 'smart metering', albeit a trial area, and it's going really well.

    There are two types of accounts: Prepaid and Post-paid. Thoughts of the coin fed gas and electric meters in the UK cross my mind.

    And all usage activity is available through a multi-lingual website. Also available is a choice of power options and notifications with respect to reduced power cost.

    There are bands of increasing pricing dependent on the total amount of power consumed but poor people who need (use) less than 100KWH monthly get a special rate. The Pre-Paid accounts are charged at this rate.

    Payment is simple. All you have to do is locate a credit card swipe machine and the store will issue a top-up card (similar to prepaid cell handsets) in 100KWH amounts so the consumer can load their meter at their convenience. Post-paid accounts are paid similarly - just hand the store your plastic ID card, they swipe it and the terminal states the amount to be collected.

    No fuss, no muss.

    I guess the Tories want to involve their favourite government contractors so collections at election times continue unabated.

  25. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    Late and not that useful

    Not only is it delayed (again) it has also been so badly descoped as to be useless in its initial form.

    Same old patterns of large failed programmes: initially misconceived this time with a supplier-led rollout (should have been the regional players/DNOs), massively over-spec'd with too many stakeholders, a desire to have a bespoke solution rather than follow established patterns, result was always going to lead to something bloated and costly.

    On top of that poor programme governance and weak vendor management. Result: runaway costs and receding value. In fact the only part of this project that remains on track is Gov spending £60m on convincing UK households to allow a smart meter to be installed - Gas and Leccy - just over £2/household doesn't sound much against the billions currently at risk but still a symbol of the waste in the programme.

    And of course, no one will be held accountable - they will just shrink away into the background.

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: Late and not that useful

      You do get rewarded for such incompetence with the role of Home Secretary though, in the case of Amber Rudd. Rudd, a mouthpiece of utter conjecture.

  26. Ray Foulkes

    You are not alone...

    My leccy meter here in France was replaced by the French smart meter "Linky" in April this year. It replaced one which had an external magnetic "antenna" just outside my house. The person reading the old meter just put their receiver against it for seconds and then left.

    A month after having the smart meter installed, I received a letter telling me that "an engineer needed access to your house to read the meter" for a time when I would not be present. I wrote back explaining that ERDF (the electricity distributor in France) could easily read it remotely since it was the wonderful Linky. The reply was, of course, that although the entire village had been fitted with smart meters, the infrastructure to read it was not in place. No date has yet been given 6 months after the installation. This of course came with an offer "to optimise my energy consumption blah de blah de blah". You can imagine the scorn in the response I gave, in pidgin French you understand.

    So, stupidity is not confined to the UK you will be pleased to learn.

  27. David Roberts
    Paris Hilton

    Outdoor gas meter - power source?

    Our gas meter is on an outside wall (so easy to read anyway).

    Assuming a smart meter will require electricity, does this mean the installer will want to drill holes in walls and lift flooring to access mains electricity?

    Had a quick search but just got "free with added fluffy bunnies" responses.

    1. David Roberts

      Re: Outdoor gas meter - power source?

      On further searching, most of the information is dated 2013.

      Still no idea of the physical requirements, but loads of stuff about a communications hub in your house to link gas and electric meters and other smart devices which may wish to participate.

      Every mother's son on the planet can have access to your data, but "only if you agree". Of course it is all channelled through Crapita first so we know it will be securely and thoughtfully managed regardless of expense.

      I haven't really looked into it so far because my default position is "not until it has been running long enough to show major benefits" which may be never.

    2. billat29
      Facepalm

      Re: Outdoor gas meter - power source?

      My neighbours had one of these fitted "ages" ago. It stopped reading as the internal battery ran out and the energy co had to estimate.......

    3. macspite

      Re: Outdoor gas meter - power source?

      I worked for a major energy supplier until recently as a SMART meter installer. The setup we had involved an electric meter that also powered the comms hub (by wire) which used a zigbee network to take data (wirelessly) from the leccy meter and the gas. The gas meter's signal was powered by a battery in the meter that also powered the display and was stated to last for ten years.

      Downside of the setup was that if a change of supplier was made by the consumer the SMART system had to be removed and replaced with the new suppliers kit. That apparently is set to change so that change of supplier to the one offering the most agreeable tarriff should be as easy as changing phone suppliers with an unlocked phone but certainly until April 2016 when I left change of supplier involved a complete change of meters ...

  28. 27escape

    New tariffs is said to be a benefit

    From the smart meter website

    Innovative energy tariffs Using the data collected on when and how households are using energy, suppliers can create more competitive time-of-use tariffs with cheaper prices for off-peak use.

    We used to have this, it was called economy 7, worked great, cheap electric at night for washing machines and storage heaters etc

    The other benefit is the end to estimated bills, never used to be a problem, if they got it wrong I would ring up and get it changed to an accurate read bill

  29. James 36

    optional

    “the DCC is a secure, national network for smart meters which is currently being built.”

    with millions of insecure wifi hotspots and/or unpatched vulnerable entry points,

    I mean, what could possibly go wrong ?

    can't non payers already be cut off ?

    Doesn't the energy supplier have to jump through some legal hoops first like proving the cut off won't cause any harm ?

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