back to article Ubuntu 16.10: Yakkety Yak... Unity 8's not wack

Canonical's Ubuntu 16.10, codenamed "Yakkety Yak", is nowhere near as chunky an update as 16.04 LTS was earlier this year. But that doesn't mean there's nothing new. In fact, the firm's second release of the year has quite a few fresh features to hold users over until the bright and shiny future of Unity 8 and Mir arrive some …

  1. Preston Munchensonton

    Fix one problem, cause another

    Snap applications solve quite a few other problems and may even offer better security as well, but eliminating dependency conflicts is the biggest win for end users.

    While this is true, it introduces another problem: lots of patching. Since every app has it's own dependencies packaged, every app now has to be updated separately to update libssl, libjpeg, etc. For many, that tradeoff is a good one and doesn't cause much pain, but there will be others who avoid this scenario except where they really need it. In my mind, the biggest benefit isn't eliminating all dependency interactions, but only eliminating those instances where conflicts arise that are not easily solved.

    Anything that gives users more choice is a good thing and certainly seems to deviate from the trend that we see from most IT vendors in general (even Ubuntu in some cases).

    1. sorry, what?
      Devil

      Snappy return to...

      Statically linked applications?

      Look, I stepped away from Linux for a week or two back in 2012 and accidentally failed to get back to it (no, honestly, not deliberate but due to a change of employer), so I accept I could be seriously out of touch, but why does the "snap" concept seem like the devs simply chose to statically link with the versions of the libraries they were using to build with?

  2. Wiltshire

    Eh wot?

    Have I missed it, or where's the review of Linux Mint 18?

    IMHO, now better than Ubuntu.

    1. CrazyOldCatMan Silver badge

      Have I missed it, or where's the review of Linux Mint 18? IMHO, now better than Ubuntu.

      I think you misspelt "FreeBSD 11" :-)

      (I quite like Linux Mint actually as a desktop.. I started off with Slackware, moved to Redhat, migrated to Mandrake/Mandriva then finally went to using Ubuntu after Mandriva fell down a black hole. Sadly, Ubuntu is now infested with the systemd nonsense.. )

      1. Lars Silver badge
        Linux

        @ CrazyOldCatMan

        I have a fairly similar background but went with Mageia after Mandrake/Mandriva, works fine, uses systemd but I don't really bother about it, as long as it works.

      2. td0s

        Maybe you should go back to slackware as one of the only linuxes without hte systemd nonsense.

    2. Mage Silver badge

      Mint 18

      Mint 17 and Mate desktop is much better than Ubuntu also.

      1. wolfetone Silver badge

        Re: Mint 18

        Everything is better than Ubuntu.

  3. Steven Raith

    Has the AMD proprietary driver....

    ....been made to work properly yet?

    I mean, at all - it's why my home box is still on 15.10, because I do occasionally like to play some modern games <insert jokes about relative modernity here - but stuff like Serious Sam 3 etc>

    Genuine question, like.

    Steven R

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: Has the AMD proprietary driver....

      Date 1990:

      Don't worry, that fix is coming in the next version.

      Date 1995:

      Don't worry, that fix is coming in the next version.

      Date 2000:

      Don't worry, that fix is coming in the next version.

      Date 2005:

      Don't worry, that fix is coming in the next version.

      Date 2010:

      Don't worry, that fix is coming in the next version.

      Date 2015:

      Don't worry, that fix is coming in the next version.

    2. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: Has the AMD proprietary driver....

      If you want propriety that just works on Linux then buy Nvidia.

      1. teknopaul

        nvidia provided you dont go near Optimus

        however intel graphics drivers have never given me hassle. just built a laptop with skylake ubuntu 16.04, only intel graphics. No problems at all. caveat: I dont play games.

  4. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    Yuckity yuk

    Last release ruined nautilus so completely, I was forced to switch to MATE. And now they're back to ruin it some more.

    All gnome devs should be forced to read the iOS human interface guide, and Microsoft UI guidelines. Then BURN them at the stake because they can't design a GUI to save their lives.

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: Yuckity yuk

      If they can't design a GUI to save their lives, how come their UIs (in particular, the iPhone which stole all the thunder from feature phones) are SO popular that no one's been able to come up with anything compelling enough to encourage defections?

      1. Preston Munchensonton

        Re: Yuckity yuk

        If they can't design a GUI to save their lives, how come their UIs (in particular, the iPhone which stole all the thunder from feature phones) are SO popular that no one's been able to come up with anything compelling enough to encourage defections?

        I suggest that you learn the phrase "vendor lock-in". It's the apps and not the UI that provides the salient elements preventing users from jumping ship.

        Given the pending integration of Google ChromeOS and Android, I think you'll have an answer in the near future.

        1. Anonymous Coward
          Anonymous Coward

          Re: Yuckity yuk

          And I suggest you look up the terms "cross-compatibility" and "reverse engineering". How did MacOS transition from PowerPC to Intel without cross-compatibility? What is WINE all about?

    2. JLV
      Trollface

      Re: Yuckity yuk

      >Microsoft UI guidelines

      ???

      watcha been smoking, man?

      I abandoned Ubuntu at the start of the great Gnome 3.x and KDE Plasma debacle. Precisely because the UI was getting mangled too much for no reason. So... +1.

      But... after a fair bit of wrangling with Windows 8/Windows 8.1(not same as 8 wrt config) and Windows 10, I doubt you'd really want to listen to anything the MS folks have to say about UI.

      I have no doubt the constant churn in Ubuntu is a mess, but following MS in UI is like asking Scientologists about science because their name starts with it.

      I submit this jewel as a case study - http://www.tomshardware.com/answers/id-1683073/windows-snaps-full-screen.html These are the hoops you have to jump through to avoid full-screening any random window in Win8 when you mistakenly drag it to close to the screen edge.

      1. chivo243 Silver badge

        Re: Yuckity yuk

        I skipped the 8.x win experience. I've recently(this week) spun up a vm with win10. Where is everything? Right, gotta use the search box next to what passes for a start menu. Anything that follows the win UI path is asking for trouble... I like to think I'm open minded and a quick study, but this (current win ui stratedgy) is just weird ;-/

        1. frank ly

          Re: Yuckity yuk

          Caja: It's what Naultilus used to be when it was good, i.e. four years ago.

          As an interesting aside; in the system monitor process list, Caja has a nautilus shell icon (in Mint 18 MATE).

      2. Adam 52 Silver badge

        Re: Yuckity yuk

        ">Microsoft UI guidelines

        ???

        watcha been smoking, man?"

        The Microsoft UI guidelines were very good when I read them, back around Windows NT 4 time. Windows 8 and 10, and Server 2014 (especially Server, who on earth wanted a touch screen UI on a server on a different continent?) are obviously a bit weird.

        1. JLV

          Re: Yuckity yuk

          Oh, those. I think I read those and/or the CUA ones ages ago and they were pretty good.

          As to have forgotten about them in my snide n snarky post, I can't be blamed too much, can I? MS itself has totally forgotten about their own guidelines about what makes a good UI.

          The funny thing is that MS used to be strong on the UI and weak on the backend. Now the backend is arguably getting better (it's no POSIX, but I consider that a plus from the POV of OS diversity, no matter if I prefer 'nix myself).

          But the frontend - where the great mass of customers judge from - is losing the plot and getting panned massively for it. Not to mention telemetry/forced upgrades.

      3. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        RRe: Yuckity yuk

        "I submit this jewel as a case study - http://www.tomshardware.com/answers/id-1683073/windows-snaps-full-screen.html"

        Thank you! This so elegantly demonstrates the ease of operation of the new windows family.

        ( " This far away from rolling everything back to windows7. 8 is god awful, 8.1 is working god awful, 10? It makes me pine for the stability of windowsME! )

        1. Khaptain Silver badge

          Re: RYuckity yuk

          "The Microsoft UI guidelines were very good when I read them, back around Windows NT 4 time. Windows 8 and 10, and Server 2014 (especially Server, who on earth wanted a touch screen UI on a server on a different continent?) are obviously a bit weird."

          I am in the same boat, I read them many years ago and they were very well written and very logicial.. MS states that they have spent a fortune studying UIs and I agree that they know their stuff...

          UIs are very important for the end user, and this is one point which I have never liked in Linux, the default user UIs are/can be different between distros and this can become extremely frustrating. Which results in returning so often to the cli.

          Windows on the other hand provides a great UI, and what with the CLI getting a bit better, it's becoming a very useful and powerful UI...

          YMMV

      4. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        Re: Yuckity yuk

        Have you actually read Microsoft's UI guidelines?

        It's actually really solid information about ergonomics and human interaction.

        The fact they don't use this organisational knowledge AT ALL, and let marketing design Windows doesn't detract from this.

  5. Mage Silver badge
    Mushroom

    still-not-quite-there Unity 8

    Scrap Unity.

    It's a nonsense idea for productive workstations. Who installs Ubuntu on a 7" tablet or less than 6" Phablet?

  6. doke

    snaps are a stupid way to badly reinvent LD_LIBRARY_PATH

    For over 20 years, every version of unix I'm aware of has supported using the LD_LIBRARY_PATH environment variable to avoid library conflicts. If you need a specific version of libjpeg, just put it in it's own directory, and set the variable.

  7. handle

    "Unity 7 works just fine"

    ...unless your launcher refuses to auto-hide. Any more annoyances?

    1. handle

      Re: "Unity 7 works just fine"

      Confused - do the downvoters not know that there is an auto-hide option for the launcher, or do they just not believe me when I say that my launcher won't hide? It is worse than useless because with the auto-hide option, the launcher appears on top of maximised windows, hiding part of them; with the fixed launcher, maximised windows are sized to avoid it.

  8. handle

    Skylake?

    "Ubuntu 16.10 brings the Ubuntu kernel up to version 4.8, which is good news if you've had the misfortune of trying to run Linux on a Skylake machine."

    Why, what does it do that kernel 4.3 didn't, which was the series that started to support the 530 integrated graphics? 16.04 uses 4.4.

  9. thames

    Tried it out yesterday

    I tried it out on a live DVD yesterday, mainly to see what Unity 8 was like. Unity 8 seems to work fine on my hardware (AMD A8-5600K APU with Radeon(tm) HD Graphics × 4). Some of the effects looked nifty, but I prefer the Unity-7 UI in terms of making my life easy. In particular, I can't imagine living without virtual desktops, and I didn't see any in Unity 8. What is more, if the launcher bar is supposed to pop out somehow, I didn't see it. Instead there was what looked like a "launcher window" I'll call it. However, Unity-8 and Mir are still focused on mobile and tablet targets, and desktop trails after. This is an understandable, as Unity 7 is probably by far the best UI to be found on Linux today, so there's not a lot of pressure to change it. I use 16.04 on a daily basis, and I'm quite content to wait.

    I didn't try the Snaps, so I can't really comment on them.

    As for the (Gnome) "Software" package, I install command line and library packages using a GUI (Ubuntu Software Centre). It's a lot easier to search for and install packages that way. Using a GUI I don't have to Google a package name to find out the exact package name (which is often not the same as the common name) and what it does, and the integrated ratings system helps as well. "Software" is completely pointless if it can't handle everything. Ubuntu Software Centre handles things by letting you show or hide non-GUI items.

    As for Nautilus, the reason that 16.04 shipped an old version is because at the time Gnome was in one of their "let's rip out all useful functionality" phase of "simplifying" things, and the latest version at the time was rubbish. If the pendulum has since swung back to making it useful again, then that's fine. I'll have to boot up the live DVD again and try it out.

    I wish they had stuck with the old version of GEdit and Gnome Terminal for 16.04 by the way. The Gnome devs have ripped out the most useful GUI parts of the UI and forced everyone to memorise keyboard short cuts in order to "simplify" the UI to conform to the current Gnome group-think on UI design (which says that the way to make things easy to use is to simply not have any useful features).

    As a correction, this is not the first Ubuntu release to not fit on a CD. It is in fact only marginally larger than 16.04, which also did not fit on a CD. What is more, 14.04 did not fit on a CD either (14.04.4 is 1.1GB, 16.04.1 is 1.5GB, 16.10 is 1.6GB). I'm not sure when that restriction was removed, but it was a while ago. The main reason for this was to accommodate more standard applications.

    Oh, and as a tip for anyone looking to try out Unity 8 on a live DVD, the way to get to it is to boot up the DVD and then log out (using the gear symbol at the upper right). At the log-in screen, click on the Ubuntu logo beside the user name box, which causes an additional log-in option to appear. Select that, with user name of "ubuntu" and a blank password, and it will log into a Unity-8 screen. Explore the edges of the screen with your mouse to cause features to appear - this is the desktop equivalent to "swiping" the edges on a touch screen. Unity 8 is a mobile UI which has been adapted to the desktop. The interactions are not really "desktop-enough" in my opinion, which is I suspect one reason why they haven't made it standard yet. There are only a couple of applications available, as they have to recompile them to get the standard UI libraries to use Mir instead of X, and they didn't do that for all the apps (since it's just a demo).

    All it all, it looks pretty good. I use Ubuntu with Unity 7 (16.04) on a daily basis, and I much prefer it to any other Linux distro or any other version of UI on Ubuntu that I've tried. I also prefer it to any version of MS Windows that I've tried. I don't have enough experience with a Mac to really do a detailed comparison there, although superficially I would say it's at least as good if not better than a Mac from an ease of use standpoint.

  10. Paul Crawford Silver badge

    The Gnome devs have ripped out the most useful ... conform to the current Gnome group-think on UI design (which says that the way to make things easy to use is to simply not have any useful features).

    Do they ever actually use their own software for real? You get the impression they are bored teenagers who will do anything but bug-fix their own code.

  11. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    So SNAP apps are snappy?

    *Comical look of incredulity*

    /s

  12. Delbert Grady

    "much-promised GNOME beauty"

    which universe was Gnome ever beautiful ?

    which universe even had the humour to write those 2 words in the same sentence ?

    Those of us that didn't just start using Linux a couple of years ago will remember old Gnome, the mucky, old GTK2 misery which was as clunky and ugly as a low-end,beaten u, rusty 1970s Easten block Trabant - huge areas of screen UI wasted screen real-estate, adjustment in what appeared to be a direct port of the Windows registry to Linux in Gconf (IIRC) and the already clunky window controls and buttons could only be *increased* to something Fischer Price would reject as outrageous.

    Look, attraction is obviously subjective, but dammit, Gnome is butt ugly, because today's UI designers are apparently insane and have no taste, and have contempt for poor dumb users .. even the imperfect but supremely customisable and logical KDE 3.5 which was QT3 was dropped seemingly to catch up to Gnome version numbers (somewhat reminiscent of Firefox getting jealous of chrome's versioning number scheme - WGAF ?) and KDE 4 jumped to QT4 and started failing, hiding stuff and screwing its userbase over... but i digress ..

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