back to article EU U-turns on mobile roaming fees: No 90-day cap after all

The European Commission has U-turned again on its plans to tear up roaming fees for customers abroad, going back to its original proposal that all charges should be abolished. Earlier this month the commission published draft plans to force telcos across the EU to offer their customers free roaming for at least 90 days a year …

  1. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    Does this mean I can buy a 4g unlimited data simcard for €0.50/month from Estonia and use it at home? Where do I sign up?

    More seriously, who's going to lose out here? Surely it's going to be eastern european consumers who's bills will have to go up to prevent their networks being used for cheap data at home by western european consumers?

    1. Lee D Silver badge

      It's unlikely to be cheap.

      All the telcos are now rushing to work out what it's going to cost them and make their prices reflect that. There's no way EstoniaTel are going to be able to pay to use O2 or Three data roaming without paying for it. They will, at best, be charged the same as everyone else.

      The EU says they have to be able to roam. It doesn't say that the cost of that won't be reflective of the business costs. And you can bet your backside that all the telecoms companies are now putting out their pricing for their partners to use their SIM on their networks, the cost of which will just end up with the user.

      But hopefully, it will once and for all prove that local Internet data on a local 3G SIM/handset costs no more than local Internet data on a roaming 3G SIM/handset. All they do is strip off the data and push it over their leased-line to some peer point in the country, whether you're from Britain or Russia.

      What this does mean, though? EU International call revenue is about to plummet. Why bother to call from a phone if you have Skype, WhatsApp etc. throughout the EU for free on your already-purchased contract?

      My girlfriend is Italian. We went to France and Italy over the summer. Throughout France, bugger all. Literally no 3G and dodgy GSM connection when we did get it. The locals had NO problems, though. Throughout Italy, better but still no data. But we never once made an actual phone call. What we did was Wifi and use that to call, or we just did chat online. We had an Italian phone/SIM, same kinds of problems in the UK / France, except when it was in Italy itself. But we still never really used it for calls.

      She used to spent £30 a month on international dialling cards to ring Italy. Then Skype and WhatsApp came along and she no longer bothers. When data works in all the EU, you don't even need one of those card for the duration of the holiday. 3G/4G is the "over IP" of the telecoms world. Why bother faffing with GSM etc. services to make a call when you have a direct Internet connection on each device and can use any service at all?

      It might also mean that my satnav picks up some decent traffic information when abroad too, rather than just assume everything is okay from Calais onwards because it can't get a data signal.

    2. Barry Mahon

      Why "go up" ? If they have any sense they will market their cheapness and pocket the extra revenue.

      1. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        Strange that you should have had so many problems in France. I've never had problems there.... well no more so than other countries anyway. On holiday in Cornwall I couldn't get any signal at all for several miles around where we were staying and there are places like that in France too.

        My SatNav also had no problem getting traffic updates in France either.

        As to your other point, yes VoIP can be helpful and I've used it a lot over free WiFi but if my free minutes work abroad then I doubt I'll continue using it.

      2. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        I assume the costs to the network of paying for roaming in the western countries will cripple them.

    3. Charlie Clark Silver badge

      This is wrong for two reasons: firstly and primarily because it's a typical strawman argument. I wish you luck trying to get that SIM card. Secondly, excessive roaming charges are evidence of market failure. The telcos have know this for around 15 years and have had plenty of time to prepare for it. If you talk to anyone in the business they'll generally admit that they've already priced the change into their business models and they're currently more interested in sharing infrastructure and switching to cheaper all-IP stacks. The biggest costs were those associated with licence auctions and M&A (to reduce competition) but it's okay because these could be offset against tax so never really cost the companies anything.

      The most important thing is actually opening up the wholesale market. This will make getting a SIM from another country for use in your home market largely irrelevant: it's classic arbitrage. This is why the European Commission launched the investigation in the first place.

  2. James 51

    I can see the data being bought in one country and used in another but the calls and texts are normally to the home country i.e. with three or vodafone you get the calls and texts to the UK with the roam like home thing. If you live in Ireland or France and you had a UK sim, you'd still pay international rates to call people in Ireland or France.

  3. corestore

    "In the latest proposals telcos operators will be allowed to question customers whom they suspect are buying a cheap sim card in one country and using it in another country with higher phone bills."

    Errrr why? Aren't there single market rules here? Isn't this precisely analogous to the clearly-established right to use cheaper decoders and subscriptions sourced elsewhere in EU to watch football? What questions will they be allowed to ask??

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      > Errrr why? Aren't there single market rules here? Isn't this precisely analogous to the clearly-established right to use cheaper decoders and subscriptions sourced elsewhere in EU to watch football? What questions will they be allowed to ask??

      All good questions. Here's where you ask: https://europa.eu/european-union/contact/write-to-us_en.

  4. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    Protectionism

    "In the latest proposals telcos operators will be allowed to question customers whom they suspect are buying a cheap sim card in one country and using it in another country with higher phone bills."

    I did question the 90-day + 100 Mb "rule" when they first came up with it back in late 2014, so I'm glad they got rid of it.

    I have now asked the Commission about the reasons for this restrictions on what is supposed to be a single market. In particular considering that two thirds of the European telecoms market is controlled by just four companies, which choose however to operate via local subsidiaries rather than through a single designated authority.

    So far no evidence has been offered that customers would rush to buy from less expensive markets, in fact, evidence from other industries where that is possible, from buying cars, to online shopping, to satellite TV subscriptions, show that indeed very few people take advantage of this possibility.

    No evidence exists either that, were such a rush to happen, prices would *need* to be increased in the less expensive markets.

    Investment on infrastructure (which telcos are obliged to make) can be made according to where their customers are based rather than or in addition to where the telco is based, so that's not a problem either.

  5. Lars Silver badge
    Thumb Up

    Good

    Proves the European Parliament actually has power. As for small operators who's market was based on roaming charges, who cares about parasites. And the U-turn when turning to the original direction, a double U-turn?.

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: Good

      Not a U-turn, but going all the way around the roundabout because you missed your exit the first time.

  6. Dan 55 Silver badge
    Stop

    Political bullshit - no change over 90 day rule

    Telecos can link free roaming to residency but this is a 90 day rule by another name. If you spend 90 days in another European country you're supposed to fill in the paperwork to get residency (most EU countries have some residency paperwork, the UK doesn't really) and stay or go back home.

    A teleco could ask any customer who's been roaming continuously for 90 days to prove their residency and move them to another tariff if they don't like the answer, and they could argue it both ways: 1) you're no longer resident in this country so you don't need free roaming from us or 2) you're resident in this country so now you're back home after 90 days you don't need free roaming from us.

    So where's the change?

    Also telecos are now allowed to argue that free roaming is making their domestic tariffs unviable and opt out if they want which is probably most useful for the EU countries with a lot of emigration. So no 50 cent/month 4G for you.

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: Political bullshit - no change over 90 day rule

      > If you spend 90 days in another European country you're supposed to fill in the paperwork to get residency

      That is a misinterpretation.

      > and stay or go back home.

      And that is not correct. If interested in the exact details you can inform yourself by asking Europe Direct (be aware that national administrations tend to present less than unbiased interpretations of the rules, so get it from the horse's mouth).

      The press release explicitly says:

      The College of Commissioners discussed draft rules that will enable all travellers using a SIM card of a Member State in which they reside or with which they have stable links to use their mobile device in any other EU country, just as they would at home.

      Examples of "stable links" include work commuters, expats who are frequently present in their home country or Erasmus students.

      > Also telecos are now allowed to argue that

      Of course they're allowed to argue whatever they want. This is supposed to be a democratic society after all. A different story is whether they'll get away with it. And that depends not just on what they argue but on what we, as consumers, counter-argue.

      So if you're actually interested in the outcome of all this, you can get writing to the Commission and to your favourite MEPs (they all represent every EU citizen, so pick whoever you want) and make your views known. Having a whinge on a blog site achieves nothing.

      1. Dan 55 Silver badge

        Re: Political bullshit - no change over 90 day rule

        1) It's been linked to residency. I was quoting the residency rules. Erasmus students have residency. It's easy enough for cross-frontier workers to argue their case if they've got a contract, but a teleco can easily maintain an expat who doesn't visit once in 90 days is not a frequent visitor.

        2) You misunderstand or you've missed that bit in the press release. In this latest draft a teleco has the option of opting out of free roaming and applying a surcharge to everyone, they did not have this option before.

        1. Anonymous Coward
          Anonymous Coward

          Re: Political bullshit - no change over 90 day rule

          > You misunderstand or you've missed that bit in the press release. In this latest draft a teleco has the option of opting out of free roaming and applying a surcharge to everyone, they did not have this option before.

          Of course they had that option before. Since 26 November 2015 to be exact, as per Regulation (EU) 2015/2120.

    2. katrinab Silver badge

      Re: Political bullshit - no change over 90 day rule

      What about people live near a border and work on the other side of the border? An example here might be someone who lives in Dundalk in Ireland and works in Newry in Northern Ireland. They would be roaming for maybe 240 days per year.

  7. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    Article correction

    Not that it was wrong, but it needs translating:

    Christian Maitre, CIO deputy of the Orange Group, and Juan José Hierro, recently told The Register the abolition of roaming fees was forcing European operators to find new routes of revenue ways to rip off their customers.

    Just for the sake of accuracy.

  8. SkippyBing

    So MEPs didn't like a provision that would most affect, err, them. Or is it just me not taking 60 day holidays in Spain?

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      > So MEPs didn't like a provision that would most affect, err, them.

      MEPs tend to claim back their phone bill so it does not affect them one way or another.

      Also, MEPs have been aware, or should have been aware, of the earlier proposal since it first came out in the summer of 2015, since it was actually agreed with the European Parliament back then. Although they are credited in the article (without stating a source) with criticising the proposal, my information is that most of the criticism came from other quarters, including from within the Commission itself.

  9. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    "Some small operators may disappear because their market was based on roaming charges exploitation and overcharging"

    Sounds like a good thing to me.

  10. Missing Semicolon Silver badge
    FAIL

    Somebody else's money

    Which is what the Commission is using to buy some post-Brexit goodwill from the populace.

    The fact that the result will be increased consolidation in the market (to cut the cost of roaming) and you can easily see that the days of the £10 SIM with oodles of data and minutes will soon be over.

    One way or another (by multilateral price increases, or reduction in competition) we will end up paying for it.

  11. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    Let me understand...

    .... telcos (and many other companies) are allowed to shift jobs, offices (and taxes!) where costs are lower (call centers, for examples), but citizens should not be allowed to get contracts from where they are cheaper? It doesn't look a good example of democracy and equal rights. A "free market" must work both for companies and customers.

    If I'm not allowed to "outsource" a contract from another EU country where it is cheaper, I also expect that the company is forced to give me services from people within my same country, instead of using cheaper people from another.

    I always like how these animals more *animals* than others think... (I use *animals" instead of "equal" explicitly...)

  12. Spinux

    Bying the cheapest SIM is exaclty the point!

    Of course we are all going to buy our SIM at the provider in the country where it is the cheapest. In my opinion this is exactly the purpose of the 'one market'. This will force providers to adjust their pricing, that's how the market should work. This is already the case for so many other products. So in my mind it is ludicrous that : "In the latest proposals telcos operators will be allowed to question customers whom they suspect are buying a cheap sim card in one country and using it in another country with higher phone bills."

    1. inmypjs Silver badge

      Re: Bying the cheapest SIM is exaclty the point!

      "In my opinion this is exactly the purpose of the 'one market'"

      Which would be fine if there was one product but there isn't. The cost of network provision varies (presumably significantly more expensive in low population density areas). If operators are not allowed to charge more where the service costs more they will have to charge more everywhere and cross subsidise.

      Why should someone buying and using a SIM in France pay more so someone buying a SIM in France and using it in Latvia (or where ever) can pay less?

      The market for SIMs and contracts in high cost areas would evaporate, taking with it phone and peripheral sales. The telcos would become nothing more than network providers funded only by (increased) roaming fees from telcos in low cost areas.

      It is idealogical EU bullshit, I am glad we are on the way out.

      1. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        Re: Bying the cheapest SIM is exaclty the point!

        > The cost of network provision varies

        Of course it does. It varies between North Yorkshire and London too.

  13. Matt Bryant Silver badge
    Facepalm

    Lol!

    So another piece of Junker male bovine manure gets exposed and - as usual - no-one in the European press seems keen to ask why Junker keeps making these stupid, populist statements whenever he needs to divert press attention from another EU fiasco. At least Cameron fell on his sword, it seems Junker, the politician actually most to blame for Brexit, simply doesn't have the morals to do the same.

    1. Charlie Clark Silver badge
      FAIL

      Re: Lol!

      it seems Junker, the politician actually most to blame for Brexit

      Really? While I don't think that Juncker is a very good president of the European Commission, I think that the EU referendum in the UK was a wholly avoidable, self-inflicted wound. But you obviously have access to better sources.

  14. Gordon861

    Brexit

    Well the way things are going, by the time this actually comes in we'll have left the EU and will instead continue to be screwed by the roaming charges.

  15. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    Almost like using EE in the USA

    They wanted £200 for two weeks data usage in the USA.

    Went to a nice eBay company that provides sims at the local USA tariffs. Put my UK sim in an old phone with mobile data switched off.

    Cost for unlimited calls to UK and 2GB data, about £25.

    1. katrinab Silver badge

      Re: Almost like using EE in the USA

      Or get an AT&T SIM when you arrive. I'm suggesting AT&T because it is most likely to work on a European phone, not because I think they are any better than the other providers.

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