back to article UK military buys third £4m Zephyr drone for 'persistent surveillance' trials

The Ministry of Defence has bought a third solar-powered Zephyr-S surveillance drone for £4.3m, and says it “performs more like a satellite than a conventional UAV”. With its 25 metre wingspan covered in solar panel cells, this latest Zephyr-S is the third unmanned aerial vehicle (UAV) to be delivered as part of the MoD's £13m …

  1. jbstarbug

    Wrong County

    Last time I checked Farnborough was in Hampshire not Surrey so how is it Farnborough built but designed and manufactured in Surrey?

    1. The Mole

      Re: Wrong County

      My guess is transporting a fully built plane with a 25m wingspan is hard. Far easier to design and manufacture the components in Surrey and then do the final build (bolting it together) in a hanger at Farnborough airport. That or some parts are designed and manufactured in Surrey others are manufactured in Farnborough, or perhaps just sloppy journalism, take your pick.

      1. Fungus Bob
        Coat

        Re: Wrong County

        "My guess is transporting a fully built plane with a 25m wingspan is hard."

        Not at all - you just fly it to it's destination...

        1. imanidiot Silver badge

          Re: Wrong County

          Meh, 2x 12 meters is not that much of a problem. (Craft of this size/type are quite likely to be capable of relatively easy disassembly. Splitting the wings at the fuselage is a standard design practise seen in GA aircraft and gliders of comparable or larger wingspan)

    2. Dave 15

      Re: Wrong County

      Probably too shocked about the British military buying something made in Britain.... I suspect we better hide this fact from the armed forces minister or he will have them all sent back

      1. Glen 1

        Re: Wrong County

        It's not the "Made in Britain" that's the obstacle, its how many "non executive directorships" can one company offer the people making the procurement decisions.

        What's Geoff Hoon up to these days?

  2. Efros
    Joke

    You have to ask

    Solar powered in Britain???

    1. Known Hero
      Thumb Up

      Re: You have to ask

      Above Britain,

      First spec can it get above the clouds :YES

      Well now were above the clouds what can we see ... ummm not a lot really, just lots of clouds.

    2. Stuart 22

      Re: You have to ask

      Very different flying over Arizona in summer and Scotland in winter. Storing enough power during a long day to get through a short night may not be difficult but when the numbers reverse impossible.

      So it could end up flying continuously through June but not lasting a single day/night in December.

      1. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        Re: You have to ask

        Presumably the MOD wouldn't be surveiling the UK? If they are for what purpose?

    3. phuzz Silver badge

      Re: You have to ask

      I'm guessing the claimed 45 days flight time is in Arizona, but 4.5 days over Glasgow in winter should be do-able, (using my highly scientific 'divide by ten' skills). How many other aircraft can fly for four days?

      1. Alan Brown Silver badge

        Re: You have to ask

        It won't even fly one day if it can't gather enough surplus energy during daylight hours to keep it aloft after dark.

        The can't be allowed to descend from the high altitude otherwise they're hazardous to everything else in the airspace.

        Once you have a week in the air over Arizona there's no reason you can't fly for "12 months" (unless that 45 days happens to be centred on Jun 22 - in which case you might find it can't stay aloft in December.)

        1. Glen 1

          Re: You have to ask

          "It won't even fly one day if it can't gather enough surplus energy during daylight hours to keep it aloft after dark."

          or more likely, having enough capacity to not fully discharge during a bad day.

  3. casaloco

    Well at least you know

    Well at least you know they wont be using it to spy on you. 70,000ft up, above all the clouds, chance of seeing anything in the UK.... mostly zero.

    "What's the terrorist doing Dave"

    "Dunno Steve it's cloudy"

    2 days later...

    "Nope, still cloudy".

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: Well at least you know

      It's only a 15cm resolution so you aren't going to have much personal recognition going on.

      1. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        Re: Well at least you know

        Except if you actually are a gigantic arsehole.

        1. Citizen99
          Coat

          Re: Well at least you know

          Eye thang yew ...

          http://www.theregister.co.uk/2016/08/18/blightys_flying_bums_first_flight/

    2. SeanC4S

      Re: Well at least you know

      https://youtu.be/P1k2RzHlHik

    3. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: Well at least you know

      This drone is for airliners to report their positions. We need to deploy maybe millions of this drone to receive pings from all for airliners. Remember the MH370 missing boeing jet? It only pinged 2 satellites every hour, and when it went missing, the search area was narrowed to, like, 3 million square miles. If we had millions of this spy planes all over the world, we would have pin point the plane.

  4. Captain Scarlet Silver badge
    Coffee/keyboard

    Wait hangon

    I want a 4M toy to play with damnit!

  5. kmac499

    £4.3m for a 5kg payload... How does that square against one of the Facebook Aqulia drones.

    Yes I know they are very different beasts but both loft up to the 60,000 feet area, Well beyond the reach of a non-state based opponent or target.

    1. Prst. V.Jeltz Silver badge

      does seem a bit pricey. Hopefully 4m was for someone to draw a blue print , and the next one will be 0.3m

    2. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Proven technology counts...

      The original prototype (built prior to Airbus aquiring the Zephyr business) flew continuously for two weeks without landing, and as I understand things, it didn't need to land when it did, it was just that the agreed trial period had finished. 45 days isn't a stretch for an improved design.

  6. tiggity Silver badge

    On the plus side

    Being above the clouds, when it's dark it could turn upside down and have a chance to see some meteors (lost count of UK nights hoping to see meteor showers from the ground being spoiled by heavy cloud cover )

    1. Dabooka
      Go

      Re: On the plus side

      On the plus side is it's 'only' cost us £4m a pop, and that's for something I can see having a genuine use in several scenarios in the future. Not often we get to say that about British pork

  7. Scott Broukell
    Coat

    Cheaper

    But brings to mind the F35B Pseudo-jet fighter.

  8. Ralph B

    Doubts

    I have no doubt that it can: 1) fly at 70,000ft; 2) fly for 45days; 3) carry a 5kg payload, but I bet it'll turn out that it can't do all three at the same time. I even have doubts that it will be able manage any two at the same time.

    (This is not based on any deep knowledge of aero-tech, just my experience of UK military projects.)

    1. Commswonk

      Re: Doubts

      In addition... setting aside for now the planned replacement of TETRA with 4G I cannot see any useful purpose being servied by fitting this thing with TETRA equipment. To what possible end? Even flying at 35,000 feet would be pushing it for communicating with small portable terminals with 1 Watt maximum power and helical aerials; even vehicle installations are limited to 1 Watt as well. And TETRA systems tend communicate "sideways" not up and down and that would reduce the effectiveness as well. At 70,000 feet the range would be simply too great.

      At the same time a TETRA transmitter on a drone could cause trouble by accessing cell sites over a huge area; IIRC helicopter installations (obviously flying at more modest heights) caused difficulties that required a rethink over how airborn access to TETRA had to be organised.

      Sounds more like a marketing ploy than a serious proposal.

      1. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        Re: Doubts

        "Even flying at 35,000 feet would be pushing it for communicating with small portable terminals with 1 Watt maximum power and helical aerials"

        It really shouldn't be a huge problem, given that amateurs can work the ISS, orbiting at 400,000 m, with a 5 watt 2m / 70cm handheld transceiver.

        Note that an amateur directly under the ISS is working with a disadvantage due to distance of about 400 times compared with a UAV at 20,000 m - nasty, that inverse square law.

    2. Anonymous Coward
      Holmes

      Re: Doubts

      Be proud. Long experience with US military procurement and we can't even manage one of three.

  9. David Pollard

    managed to stay aloft for 14 days over the Arizona desert

    Get many terrorists and enemies of the state in the Arizona desert, do they?

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: managed to stay aloft for 14 days over the Arizona desert

      I'm going to guess yes, they do.

    2. Yesnomaybe

      Re: managed to stay aloft for 14 days over the Arizona desert

      The more/harder you look for them, the more you find. Weird.

    3. fajensen
      Joke

      Re: managed to stay aloft for 14 days over the Arizona desert

      It's a fractal thing: Keep zooming in and terrorists, communists, russian agents and those pesky "not-at-the-present sponsored-by-us"-jihaddis will keep popping out right down to Planck-scale resolution.

      Maybe beyond Planck - except now they got tentacles.

      1. Imsimil Berati-Lahn

        Re: managed to stay aloft for 14 days over the Arizona desert

        For some reason I read:

        Mad Max: Beyond the Planck

        Made sense to the neuron or two that're still firing up there.

        Ho hum. Okay. Back on your heads, lads.

        1. allthecoolshortnamesweretaken

          Re: managed to stay aloft for 14 days over the Arizona desert

          "Mad Max: Beyond the Planck"

          I'd watch that.

    4. Matt Bryant Silver badge
      Facepalm

      Re: David Pollard Re: managed to stay aloft for 14 days over the Arizona desert

      "Get many terrorists and enemies of the state in the Arizona desert, do they?" Ever stop to think that the Arizona desert offers a very similar operational environment to Afghanistan and the Middle East? Or that the UK has used conventional drones for flying defensive observational patrols over bases in Afghanistan, a role the Zephyr could do non-stop for weeks at a time? Ah, didn't think so.

      1. Destroy All Monsters Silver badge

        Re: David Pollard managed to stay aloft for 14 days over the Arizona desert

        > the Arizona desert offers a very similar operational environment to Afghanistan and the Middle East?

        I don't think so, except in Hollywood movies.

        1. Matt Bryant Silver badge
          FAIL

          Re: Destroyed All Braincells Re: David Pollard managed to stay aloft.....

          "....I don't think so...." Ah I can guess what the problem there is. Nevada is actually a very good training environment for desert flying, which is why the RAF routinely sends pilots and planes out to Nevada to gain experience. Ah, experience - beats wishful thinking every time!

      2. This post has been deleted by its author

  10. David 18
    Happy

    Rather amusing reading the comments on this when using the "Cloud to Butt Plus" Chrome plugin.

  11. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    Just don't let the Welsh drive....

    ...their track record with drones is not good.

    1. Yet Another Anonymous coward Silver badge

      Re: Just don't let the Welsh drive....

      Only on landing.

      If you can fly for 45days you don't need to worry about landing as much

      1. imanidiot Silver badge

        Re: Just don't let the Welsh drive....

        At some point you still get a chance to prang it into terra firma. Gravity eventually wins (unless you go to escape velocity).

        1. Trigonoceps occipitalis

          Re: Just don't let the Welsh drive....

          When flying try to stay in the air, particularly try to avoid the bottom of the air.

        2. Anonymous Coward
          Anonymous Coward

          Re: Just don't let the Welsh drive....

          You may escape earth's gravity to all intents and purposes but even if you do some other body's gravity will get you.

          Gravity will always win.

  12. Cynic_999
    Joke

    No big deal

    Sounds like just another over-priced cloud service.

  13. Chris G

    VFM

    When you think what it would cost to keep conventional spy planes in the air continuously for even two weeks night and day, £4.3m sounds like a good deal.

  14. David Roberts

    Thought you weren't allowed to fly drones near airports.

    1. Dazed and Confused

      Re: Thought you weren't allowed to fly drones near airports.

      70,000ft isn't considered "near"

      At least it isn't now that they've grounded the Concord fleet.

    2. Vic

      Thought you weren't allowed to fly drones near airports.

      You aren't. They are.

      At AAIB the other week, they were telling us about their drones - DJI units, but modified to be allowed to fly within ATZs.

      Vic.

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