back to article Volkswagen Australia says 77,000 local diesels need software fix

Volkswagen Australia has revealed that 77,000 vehicles in Australia carry the emissions-fudging software that has plunged the company into crisis. The company's antipodean tentacle today announced that 55,000 Golf and Polo models sold in Australia carried EA 189 diesel engine, while 5,000 Skoda passenger cars also have the …

  1. marky_boi

    I doubt it ....

    So.... get an update, to increase fuel consumption and reduce power... ummm let me think ...... ummmmm I doubt it. That's my response. I don't live inner city or suburbs, and drive long distances in open country, nope,,, take my chances ;-)

  2. Anonymous Coward
    Facepalm

    J Clarkson Esq

    Does anyone remember that episode of Top Gear when he said the Toyota Prius created more pollution that a diesel Golf?

  3. jtaylor

    The solution?

    This mess is becoming really interesting.

    Now we have multiple governments, which each regulate emissions, whom VW must satisfy when they bring these vehicles into compliance. Will VW use the same solution for all vehicles, or will the (presumably software) change vary by regulator?

    Any fix will probably lower combustion temperatures and enrich the fuel/air mixture. This would not only lower fuel efficiency, but could also raise other emissions. If the exhaust system is carefully designed to the original requirements, that could require secondary changes to the vehicle too. Tightly-coupled systems and all that....

    Here's a nice explanation of how Nitrogen oxides are created by exhaust. http://www.smogtips.com/failed-high-no-nitrous-oxide.cfm

    More specifically, Nitrogen Dioxide (NO2) is what regulators are concerned about (at least the US EPA). That's generated at high combustion temperatures, but also with a lean fuel/air mixture (more Oxygen from the air, less Nitrogen from the fuel). https://www.dieselnet.com/tech/emi_gas.php

    1. Adrian Tawse

      Re: The solution?

      I think you are getting a little confused here. You are talking about a gasoline engine which usually runs with a near neutral mixture (just enough oxygen to burn all the fuel). Most modern gasoline engines run a little lean (a small excess of O2) which causes the NOx (NO2 and to a lesser extent NO3) problem. The VW problem is with Diesel engines which will run very lean nearly all the time, except under heavy acceleration. A Diesel engine will draw into the cylinder a full cylinder full of air, there is no butterfly valve. Power is determined by the amount of fuel injected and the timing of that injection. In a gasoline engine the spark occurs before the piston reaches Top Dead Center (TDC). This means that the air in the cylinder still being compressed, and thus heated, while the fuel is burning, and heating further. The increased temperature aids efficiency. Exactly the same argument applies to the Diesel engine. Fuel is injected before TDC for exactly the same reason. Unfortunately the increased temperature leads to increased NOx. Delaying injection timing reduces cylinder temperatures, but reduces efficiency.

      1. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        Re: The solution?

        I believe that these days most VW diesels DO have a butterfly valve on the air intake controlled by a little motor of some sort, and that it is a part which commonly fails, and is expensive to replace. I think they have EGR also with probably another butterfly valve. Then they can probably also alter the combustion pressure or temperature by controlling the inlet manifold pressure, since these are all turbocharged engines. Therefore as well as the injection timing there may be a few other ways to alter the combustion temperature.

    2. Bernd Felsche

      Re: The solution?

      "(more Oxygen from the air, less Nitrogen from the fuel)"

      The Nitrogen comes from the air. Air is 70% Nitrogen.

      When combustion temperatures are high due to "excess air" producing a fast burn, The N2 molecules can "split" and become "adopted" by the residual oxygen (O2). It's the fuel-saving, high-efficiency, lean burn that is usual for diesel engine combustion at low to moderate loads, that makes them more likely to produce nitrogen oxides.

      There are a bunch of ways of preventing or at least reducing the emission of NOx. An earlier method was to force the engine to breathe its own exhaust gases (exhaust gas recirculation "EGR") which'd still have enough oxygen to burn the fuel, but by being the reduced, the combustion is slower, peak temperatures lower and NOx is less likely to be produced. Of course some fresh air is required because the available oxygen eventually gets used up. Efficiency is lower and the specific power at that engine load is lower; but it's only necessary to use it under light to moderate engine loads; idle to gentle cruising.

      That technology's not unique to diesel engines. It's also applicable to spark ignition engines.

  4. ScottK

    Take it back

    I still think that anybody affected by this should just return the vehicle to the dealer and ask for a full refund under section 260 of schedule 2 of the Competition and Consumer act 2010. This specifically states that a major failure has occurred if a reasonable consumer would not have bought the goods if they had known about the issue beforehand. The exact quote from the law is below as well as a link to the schedule.

    When a major failure occurs, the consumer is entitled to a repair, refund or replacement. Crucially this is the consumers choice. If VW started getting thousands of vehicles returned for a full refund they might think twice before indulging in such dodgy practices again. Too many retailers & manufacturers rely on consumers not knowing and exercising their statutory rights.

    260 When a failure to comply with a guarantee is a major failure

    A failure to comply with a guarantee referred to in section 259(1)(b) that applies to a supply of goods is a major failure if:

    (a) the goods would not have been acquired by a reasonable consumer fully acquainted with the nature and extent of the failure

    http://www.austlii.edu.au/au/legis/cth/consol_act/caca2010265/sch2.html

    ACCC guide to motor dealers also makes for interesting reading:

    https://www.accc.gov.au/publications/motor-vehicle-sales-repairs-an-industry-guide-to-the-australian-consumer-law

  5. david 12 Silver badge

    Null Change = No Effect

    My understanding is that all these vehicles meet existing Australian emissions regulations. VW has promised Australian owners that the change will not affect fuel economy or power.

    It seems likely to me that in Australia the "fix" may be just to change the engine softare so that it does not dishonestly modify emissions when tested.

    Owners would be eligible for compensation only to the extent that their buying decision depended on the quoted emission levels -- ie probably not at all.

    1. Pu02
      Flame

      Re: Null Change = No Effect

      "Owners would be eligible for compensation only to the extent that their buying decision depended on the quoted emission levels -- ie probably not at all"

      For you perhaps, but for some buying filthy 'green' products like new cars, it may matter a lot.

      Strange logic I know, but these decisions are driven by human emotion and the law has to cater for all humans- and crucially- the lawyers they might pay to interpret it.

      Fire hazard, because this issue has no cheap fix and won't stop burning until the perceptions and deceptions are addressed.

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