back to article Hi! Up here! I'm your Amazon drone. Do you mind if I land now?

Amazon has filed a fascinating patent for automated aerial vehicle (AAV) technology. The invention has two aspects, the first of which is the use of multiple propellors rotating in different directions to reduce noise. Amazon imagines one propellor rotating in one direction to provide lift. “While the second propeller may …

  1. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    Creepy?

    So, near silent drones with live video-feeds directly back to AmazonNSA.

    Gee, that's not going to be creepy at all... :(

    1. mi1400

      Re: Creepy?

      Noise is not issue of aviation industry.. dishonesty is .. just like petrol conspiracy theory. Only just about now are 660cc cars are becoming norm they even take the load of airconditioner, we 4 heavy built guts have been to hilly areas with AC on and these engines perform perfect unlike old thought that car has be atleast 1600c for this type of output. Dishonesty will soon be turn down naked in propellers/drones. first the contra-rotating myth is a myth. the russian nuclear strike bomber "bear" has contra-rotating props and those are so loud (instead of quite) that U.S navy used to detect them with sonars embeded on ocean floor. so plz shut up. If u really need to, try exploring the harddrive spindle/motor makers and/or artificial-heart's blood pumping motors if u really need to silence the drone propellers.

  2. Oengus

    Prior Art

    I have seen toys that have rotating propellors (fans) with LEDs that spell out simple messages so nothing innovative (unless some how "on a drone" counts).

    1. John Robson Silver badge

      Re: Prior Art

      I wonder if "on a mobile device" covers applications on a drone?

    2. Jagged

      Re: Prior Art

      "on the web" seems enough to validate many an existing piece of IP so ...

      1. Dave 126 Silver badge

        Re: Prior Art

        >"on the web" seems enough to validate many an existing piece of IP so ..

        The patent examiners need documentation, so yeah, the web can be as good as print if its date can be verified.

        1. Anonymous Coward
          Facepalm

          Re: Dave.

          I don't think that is what they meant...

          As in I will patent a swipe to unlock "on the web". I see no prior art. ;)

          PS, unless they did mean "invalidate".

    3. PNGuinn
      Trollface

      Re: Prior Art

      Errr ... Don't those propeller thingies have rounded corners?

  3. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    Audio Modulation of a propeller assembly!?

    And at frequencies overlapping normal speech - just how is that going to work, except with a motor providing more torture than a battleship?

    If only patents were granted for "look at this cool thing I just built" and not "left me tell ya what I dreamt about after a cheese and red wine session"

  4. TeeCee Gold badge
    WTF?

    Propellors.

    It's "contra-rotating", not "counter rotating". Quite a common setup on turboprop aircraft.

    Guess what? They don't cancel noise and none of them have ever talked to anyone.....

    1. allthecoolshortnamesweretaken

      Re: Propellors.

      Like on this one, for example: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tupolev_Tu-114

      Re the noise cancelling: wouldn't it be much easier to use loudspeakers? Although a silent very quite drone would be creepy.

      Well, few things say "get off my lawn" as effectively as a powerful water jet.

      1. Dave 126 Silver badge

        Re: Propellors.

        >Like on this one, for example: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tupolev_Tu-114

        Re the noise cancelling: wouldn't it be much easier to use loudspeakers?

        Part of the patent is the idea of that if we can't eliminate all the noise, we can at least modulate the noise to convey a message or otherwise sound less annoyingly like a mosquito. In the fans can produce a noise similar to 'Watch out!', less powerful, lighter speakers can be used to fill out the rest of the frequencies (in effect they are adding to the propeller sound, not fighting against it.)

        I don't like noisy PCs. A few years ago I had the idea if the CPU cooler couldn't be made silent, then it could at least be made to sound more relaxing. The idea was that if it sounded like a purring cat instead of like an out-of-breath asthmatic, I would be more relaxed for the same amount of airflow. (Since CPUs today generally have a lower TDP than they used to, I haven't bothered persuing it).

        The concept is very plausible. You only have to look at YouTube videos of people making music with stepper motors to see so.

        1. James Pickett

          Re: Propellors.

          "wouldn't it be much easier to use loudspeakers?"

          And for the messages, surely?

        2. Anonymous Coward
          Anonymous Coward

          Re: Propellors.

          @Plausible

          1) Except this also has to stay in the air, while playing these warnings sounds on the propellars. So there is a problem to be solved there and no indication that Amazon have actually solved it in the patent.

          2) " if we can't eliminate all the noise" have they eliminated the noise or not? Have they invented something or not?? FFS, the patent office is such a joke.

          Have they actually invented anything, or just making the claims for when someone actually does?

          The lights part, that shouldn't have been let past with so much prior art. It's even been done of propellers, not just fans, so how can you let lights on a propeller through?

      2. druck Silver badge
        FAIL

        Re: Propellors.

        Anyone who has ever been within half a mile of the Kamov Ka-50 helicoptor knows that contra rotating blades, don't cancel noise, they multiply it!

    2. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Have amazon actually made this?

      Have they actually made this? Or just patented it? i.e. did they actually solve the problems of inventing stuff?

      The lights, yeh sure you can do that, and its very common on bikes, and on propellers on fans. It's been done a few times on planes too, e.g. BMW did it as a promo:

      http://www.autoevolution.com/news/bmw-goes-back-to-its-roots-with-a-radial-airplane-light-show-video-60183.html

      I don't see how you can cancel sounds with contra-rotating propellers, you get that shock wave as the propellers cross and squeeze the air. I think that's fantasy.

      But really, why is this patent here? One-click was rejected right? The patent office in the US isn't some kind of joke awarding patents to any big USA companies for the most minor stuff right? Surely?

      1. Siberian Hamster

        Re: Have amazon actually made this?

        Completely agree with you, fairly basic physics any A Level student would (should?) understand, the noise created by rotating propellers can be (mostly) cancelled by another propeller.

        Unfortunately the secondary propeller needs to be continuously pushing back against the shockwave for the full rotation, meaning that it rotates with the primary propeller and more importantly AoA reversed so it effectively pushes in the OPPOSITE direction to the primary propeller!

        Contra-rotating will actually create a beat in addition to the noise of two propellers!

        Who are they employing to come up with these ideas I wonder, becuase its obviously not engineers!

        1. TRT Silver badge

          Re: Have amazon actually made this?

          There's no way to cancel out the white noise component of the propellor, though. I've seen trailing edge treatments to fan blades that create turbulence in the remixing air streams and which shift the frequency of the collision noise up into a frequency range that the human ear is less sensitive to. Mind you, that's likely to drive the dog even MORE livid than a flying postman.

  5. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    Patent novelty

    Ok, so sound modulation is novel, but using counter-rotating propellors to reduce noise AND use of LEDs in a fan / propellor blade are not novel innovations and should not be included!

    Or does Amazon plan to sue the thousands of manufacturers of USB fans which display messages?

    Patents have become even less than a joke of late....

  6. Christoph
    Black Helicopters

    “Watch out!” ?

    Or would it be: "Out of my way, puny human!"

  7. Mr Dogshit

    April fool!

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      You could be correct.

      If "Amazon Releasing Talking Drones" is the news story, I suspect this is an early slip in the release. :P

    2. TRT Silver badge

      with a delivery date as accurate as Amazon's estimated date.

  8. Alister

    Amazon seem to be going to great lengths with this drone delivery idea - but do they really not recognise what a stupid idea it is?

    Apart from the lack of range of the drones, they are going to be shot at, or hijacked, or otherwise interfered with.

    And if that isn't the case, how do they deliver to anyone who doesn't live in an idealised American home with a white picket fence and front yard?

    Let's see a drone delivering to an apartment block in the middle of a city!

    1. Dave 126 Silver badge

      I don't know - drones are already used used to deliver small items to prisoners! The unregulated free market (drug dealing) doesn't lie etc etc

      /tongue in cheek

      1. Peter Simpson 1
        Mushroom

        ...drones are already used used to attempt to deliver small items to prisoners!

        FTFY

        1. Cynic_999

          "

          drones are already used to *attempt to* deliver small items to prisoners!

          FTFY

          "

          Based on the fact that successful attempts would not have been detected, and generally criminals get away with crimes many more times than they get caught, I wouldn't be quite so complacent in your implied belief that such delivery attempts have always been unsuccessful.

  9. shovelDriver

    How Long Before . . .

    How long before a law is demanded which makes it mandatory that we cumbersome people give Right-Of-Way to drones? All in the interest of better customer service, of course.

    I can see it now--a line of already-disgruntled people watching as a drone attempts to move to the front of the line. I can also guess what the reactions will be. (Is it self-defense when the assailant is a drone? Would it be sufficient to remove the drone from the equation or should it be more correct to locate and remonstrate with the operators - and their employers? If just the drone, sawed-off shotguns, wad-cutters, and fragmenting bullets may be due a resurgence . . .)

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