back to article Brit uni rattles tin for ultra-low latency audio board

A team from London University's Queen Mary (QM) tentacle is rattling the tin down at Kickstarter for its "Bela" - an open source "embedded computing platform developed for high quality, ultra-low latency interactive audio". Sitting atop a BeagleBone Black, the Bela cape offers "8 analogue inputs, 8 analogue outputs and 16 …

  1. JeffyPoooh
    Pint

    Ultra Low Latency

    Advanced machine-level software, ...or the user could stand a bit closer.

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: Ultra Low Latency

      It certainly appears to be a solution in search of a problem.

      1. Hans 1

        Re: Ultra Low Latency

        You do not play digital instruments, so your opinion does not count ... I have a USB keyboard, I can play it, but the latency is terrible ... I use jackd which helps a lot, but still, this looks even better!

        1. Cowboy Bob

          Re: Ultra Low Latency

          I do, I play guitar direct into one of these that then round trips through the amp sims in Logic Pro and then back out of the interface.

          https://global.focusrite.com/firewire-audio-interfaces/saffire-pro-14

          Never noticed any latency. It is a problem that's already been solved.

          1. werdsmith Silver badge

            Re: Ultra Low Latency

            I use Line6 gear, amp sims for practice and recording, and there is no discernible latency through a PC, Mac or iOS device. I don't know if it works on Android yet, but last I heard latency was still a problem.

            1. Dave 126 Silver badge

              Re: Ultra Low Latency

              > I don't know if it works on Android yet, but last I heard latency was still a problem.

              http://www.androidpolice.com/2015/11/13/android-audio-latency-in-depth-its-getting-better-especially-with-the-nexus-5x-and-6p/

              URL alone gives the idea.

          2. Anonymous Coward
            Anonymous Coward

            Re: Ultra Low Latency

            >Never noticed any latency. It is a problem that's already been solved

            What you're describing has a roundtrip latency of around 10-15ms assuming a high-end Mac - that would drive a lot of musos to distraction.

        2. handle

          USB Keyboard

          @Hans 1: your USB keyboard controls a software synthesiser running on the CPU, something that this board will not be able to replace. I know jackd has far less latency than ALSA but I doubt you'd notice any improvement over that.

        3. JeffyPoooh
          Pint

          Re: Ultra Low Latency

          "...USB keyboard..."

          An "Ultra" low latency ***audio board*** might not address your latency issue.

          It could be equivalent to a 'fart can' muffler on a clapped-out $400 car.

    2. bencollier

      Re: Ultra Low Latency

      Sfegef

    3. JeffyPoooh
      Pint

      Re: Ultra Low Latency

      You all realize that a generous, fat, millisecond of latency is about a foot in air?

      Any normal (non-"Ultra") 'Low Latency' audio hardware can easily be much less than a millisecond. Even one millisecond implies that there's 40+ samples in the queue. This assumes you're dealing with wave files; other encoded formats have inherent latency.

      So "Ultra" low latency (versus normal low latency) must be shaving off a few tens of microseconds.

      Speakers? Stand closer, seriously. Orders of magnitude more effective.

      Even with headphones, use duct tape to squeeze them closer to your ears. Or use earbuds, and shove them in.

      Speed of sound is SLOW. Distance dominates.

      Unless you're using poorly designed audio hardware that buffers stupidly, as some do.

  2. Hans 1
    Happy

    Coool

    What do you get when you fall in love?

    Woo-hoo!

    You are now an official backer of Bela: an Embedded Platform for Low-Latency Interactive Audio.

    Now I seriously need a good excuse for the missus for both this and the pi 3 ... [toSelf]Be creative, be creative ... needa find something before she comes home tonight ...[/toSelf]

    1. GrumpenKraut

      Re: Coool

      > Be creative, be creative ...

      "It's such an advanced technology, it even ordered itself!"

      You are welcome.

  3. myhandler

    soz.. can someone explain what it actually does?

    I dabble extensively in music and got no clue on this one..

    1. Ross 12

      Musically, it does nothing, as it is. Instead, it's a pretty powerful tool that you can use to make something musical, like a custom affects processor, or a synth that takes some kind of unusual analogue input (I dunno, temperate sensor or a pressure pad for example).

      You could think of it as a kind of Raspberry Pi geared for audio.

  4. xeroks

    As a comparison

    My current PC recording setup has a 20 ms roundtrip between audio in, processing in software and back out. This is unusable so I have to use the audio interface's direct out for monitoring of input.

    My previous PC setup had a 10 ms roundtrip. This is noticable, and a bit annoying, but you can work with it.

    I reckon that if you're able to perform a decent bit of non-linear processing on your signal, 1-2 ms would be fantastic. It would be a great starting point for some decent software-based sound applications.

  5. Anonymous Coward
    Happy

    Av remember the old days,.....

    ...of CV gates and daisy chained MIDI....now there was latency.

    1. BurnT'offering

      Re: Av remember the old days,.....

      Coming from CV/Gate to MIDI was when I first discovered latency. My Roland 100M envelope generators fired very snappily.

      I want one of these .. This or the Axoloti plus Pure Data is the new equivalent to a Nord Micro Modular. A good time to be alive and to be a nerd

  6. Anonymous Coward
    Boffin

    Specs

    2 "audio" channels in+out @ 44 khz 16 bit 1 ms latency, noise levels unknown

    8 "analog" channels in+out @ 22 khz 16 bit 0.1 ms latency, noise levels unknown... can also be configured as 4x 44khz or 2x 88khz

    16x 44-88 khz 1 bit GPIO (presumably very low latency)

    Custom DSP code runs inside the Linux kernel to avoid syscall overhead.

    *No* HDMI output (they cannibalized its pins for audio I/O)

    Price: £99 / $137 for the "starter kit" including a Beaglebone

    Latency needs to be under ~10ms for pro music applications. Lately I've been able to achieve 2-3 ms total latency with USB pro audio interfaces, even with 20+ channels of 88khz audio, using a -lowlatency kernel on a >3ghz desktop PC. However, that's a highly complex system, prone to having issues.

    This "Bela" board won't have quite the audio quality of a ~$200 USB interface with a similar number of inputs... but it can run independently of a PC, unfortunately without a monitor... could be useful for home recording (six 44khz inputs), homebrew digital guitar pedals, homebrew electronic instruments, custom audo/MIDI stuff for live performance, etc. Nice to finally see something like this.

  7. Tom Chiverton 1

    Or you could just use OpenAV and a http://moddevices.com/

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      *ahem* vaporware *cough* *cough*

      Also, if it's all about slick'n'shiny GUIs imitating vintage hardware, that's friggin' lame.

      1. Tom Chiverton 1

        MOD is shopping to their kickstarter backers now, according to

        https://twit.tv/shows/floss-weekly/episodes/376

        And you can buy here:

        http://oldsite.moddevices.com/store

        1. Will Godfrey Silver badge
          Meh

          MOD actually blows this (and quite a few other things) right out of the water.

          1. Anonymous Coward
            Anonymous Coward

            I see... MOD website is just a disaster. Found some specs buried at http://oldsite.moddevices.com/products/quadra

            So it's an Atom CPU (Minnowboard perhaps?) with just 2 inputs & outputs (24 bit 48 khz) and MIDI, in a stompbox. Runs Linux LV2 plugins. That does sound sound pretty good for a digital FX box.

  8. allthecoolshortnamesweretaken

    What's

    that cute blueish-greenish laptop thingy in the second video?

    1. Dave 126 Silver badge

      Re: What's

      Can't help you - there's no clearer image of it in the video.

      For all I know, it could have been an old drill-bit case that this guy has re-purposed as a chassis for a home-built mixer.

      1. allthecoolshortnamesweretaken

        Re: What's

        Looked at it again - drill-bit case is the best explanation so far...

    2. werdsmith Silver badge

      Re: What's

      Looks like a George Foreman grill.

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