back to article Samsung phablet phrenzy brings mobile payments into the age of WIRELESS TAPE

Samsung has revealed that Samsung Pay will debut in Korea on August 20, reach the USA on on September 28 and eventually appear in the U.K., Spain and China, as well. The new scheme will not, however, rely on newfangled near-field comms (NFC). Instead it will use both NFC and Magnetic Secure Transmission (MST), a technology …

  1. Nate Amsden

    I saw this earlier today

    and it prompted me to immediately go buy another Galaxy Note 3. Found a place pretty quick that had new ones unlocked for about $290. Looked at the Note 4 for a minute or two but didn't see anything on it that made me want to spend $500+ on it unlocked anyway(I didn't shop around much maybe they are much cheaper elsewhere). Note 3 has worked really well for me, and I like the 96GB of storage I have on it. So the new Note 3 will be a backup mainly I guess.

    Can't imagine downgrading storage to anything less on a phone that is 2 years newer.

    I can live with non replaceable battery, since I've only replaced my note 3 battery once (probably will again at the end of the year), but no SD slot means no sale for me.

    I don't see anything on the Note 5 that gets me excited either.

    1. This post has been deleted by its author

    2. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: I saw this earlier today

      I need a new phone but I've been waiting for the new Note... Very disappointed it's a worthless lump of landfill shit. It's quite amazing to me that Samsung are incrementally making their flagship products worse!... and then they're wondering why no-one's buying the shit! Jesus! Methinks it's time for someone high up to flush out the mid-level parasites. Anyway... back on track.. Where did you find your $290 Note3? Is it the N9005 revision?

      1. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        Re: I saw this earlier today

        New unlocked Note 3 N9005 go for $310 on eBay

        1. BristolBachelor Gold badge

          Re: I saw this earlier today

          Careful. When Mrs. Bachelor bought me my Note 4, she looked at the Note 3 (she had one I bought her), and was trying to work out why it was soooo much cheaper than the Note 4. Turns out that there is now a cut-down Note 3. It has less RAM, slower processor and a few other things missing.

          As for the Note 5 - Samsung have said that they won't release it in Europe, (I guess they want people to buy the big boy I Phone instead? ). Given what happened with region locks on the Note 3 and Note 4 which means that ours didn't work on a trip to Japan, I wouldn't want to buy a non-European one and find that it doesn't work in Europe.

  2. This post has been deleted by its author

    1. Charles 9

      "No doubt that this has been patented, even though it's the same technology used in those line audio to cassette tape adaptors we all had in our cars before in-car CD players became the norm ten years ago."

      Actually, cassette adapters utilize heads similar to those used by the playback, except they're used in reverse, to induce magnetism in the heads instead of detect them. Crack one open and you'll see it really isn't all that complicated. About the only things inside are the induction head, some electronics to convert the line-level audio in to a level comparable to that stored on tapes, and some takeup mechanics to ensure the player's on the correct playback side.

      1. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        "Actually, cassette adapters utilize heads similar to those used by the playback, except they're used in reverse, to induce magnetism in the heads instead of detect them. Crack one open and you'll see it really isn't all that complicated. About the only things inside are the induction head, some electronics to convert the line-level audio in to a level comparable to that stored on tapes, and some takeup mechanics to ensure the player's on the correct playback side."

        Er... that's what OP said

        :-|

        1. Charles 9

          No, the OP says they work at contactless range, up to a few inches. Cassette adaptors only work at contact range, right up against the playback head. I've broken open a few of them myself to see how they work.

          1. This post has been deleted by its author

            1. Charles 9

              And given (1) no one's apparently tried to overload a cassette head's magnet to produce a similar item in the past and (2) the device is performing something nontrivial given no one else has tried to do it and (3) this also involves the carefully-timed emulation of a magstripe swipe which involves digital-analog conversion that does not exist in the all-analog cassette adapter, this makes it a nontrivial derivative of an existing invention, which DOES qualify for a patent.

  3. JaitcH
    Thumb Down

    No removable battery, no SD-memory ...

    NO SALE.

    What Samsung designers seem to have forgotten is that SD-Memory chips offer a security answer as they can be used to store Apps and content that interests governments in Australia, Canada, the UK, USA and North Korea. Equally, in less developed countries with power access challenges, replaceable batteries are a good answer especially since Samsung provides a totally inadequate hard-plastic USD charging cable that cracks after a few months of use which could be used with an external battery.

    Thankfully Motorola has a potential solution <http://www.theregister.co.uk/2015/08/06/review_motorola_moto_g_3rd_generation_2015_android_smartphone/?page=1>, <http://www.motorola.com/apac/products/moto-g>. And it is somewhat waterproof.

    1. Antonymous Coward
      FAIL

      Re: No removable battery, no SD-memory ...

      I wonder what the S7 and Note6 won't have. Microphones?

    2. Charlie Clark Silver badge

      Re: No removable battery, no SD-memory ...

      What Samsung designers seem to have forgotten…

      No, I think they've seen just how little it matters to a lot of customers and Apple's success is the proof.

      I'm with you: I think all these devices should accept additional storage and have replaceable batteries. But that's the point of the market.

      The sales numbers of the S6 Edge haven't been that bad, all things considered.

      1. Unicornpiss

        Re: No removable battery, no SD-memory ...

        I suppose it doesn't matter to a lot of customers. But it matters to me and is why I decided to forgo another Motorola phone and move to Samsung so I could have an SD card slot. Besides the ease of expanding the onboard memory, the nicety of putting in a card and having all your music, photos, etc. from your old phone, if you destroy your phone or it quits working, pull out the card and there's your data. Yes, you can do cloud and other kinds of backups, but there are just so many benefits to having that little card slot.

        I would argue that most consumers that are not in any technical field buy a phone because of the marketing, not even understanding what they're missing when they 'settle' for a less capable device.

  4. Henry Wertz 1 Gold badge

    "No doubt that this has been patented, even though it's the same technology used in those line audio to cassette tape adaptors we all had in our cars before in-car CD players became the norm ten years ago."

    I have one in the car now actually. It has a tape deck/CD combo, and needless to say I don't have either tapes or CDs sitting around in the car. The tape adapter works fine with he headphone jack on the phone. My parent's car is in the "no man's land", new enough to no longer have a tape deck (CD only) but too old to have bluetooth.

    Anyway, I don't plan to buy stuff through the phone. But, I think this is clever. It doesn't require stores to get new hardware, doesn't have the excessive range of RFID, and is still contactless (I honestly don't know how big a problem reader wear actually is on card readers, but it's still good to reduce potential problems.)

    1. Tcat

      dirt is the enemy

      I've worked P.O.S. (and more than a little NFC)

      My shopping habits are based on how clean the reader

      Is for everything from ATM to food.

      Readers with debris on the read head are a nuisance.

      Some merchants get it, others don't.

      I shop with the ones that do.

      1. Unicornpiss

        Re: dirt is the enemy

        This device would work with the dirtiest head. (insert your favorite innuendo here)

  5. Jimbo in Thailand
    FAIL

    Shame on you Samsung!!!!

    +1 Nate Amsden! I was hoping Samsung wasn't going to switch to the dark side but... dammit... they apparently have. A welded-in battery and no microSD card slot have always been deal breakers for me. My trusty, but now ancient, SG Note 2 has always sported a 3rd party 6400mAh 'fat' battery that usually only requires recharging about every 3-5 days, depending on usage of course, but never less than 3 days. Of course it's thicker from the waist down but that makes it much easier and MORE COMFORTABLE to hold. It also sports a 64GB mSD card stuffed with tons of scrumptious tunes and videos. Like Nate, I think I'll be on the lookout for a heavily discounted Note 3, the model that can shoot 4K videos.

    Gotta admit it's tough, being the hipster geek that I am, entering this new zeitgeist where tech manufacturers no longer give a phuck about their customers. Apparently Samsung, like so many others, has forgotten that many customers don't want to lose these valued features in premium-priced phones.

    Like I've ranted about before... vote with your wallet!

  6. mathew42
    Thumb Down

    I thought it was all pretty much PayWave or Chip & Pin now?

    1. Charles 9

      Contactless took a slide due to retailers wanting control of the transaction. Only when Apple Pay came along did it start a comeback because the retailers didn't want to snub Apple and its loyal base. As for Chip and PIN, the transition's in progress. Many retailers have installed Chip-readable terminals but haven't turned the readers on yet. Mostly it's the third-party readers that can do it right now. BTW, most of these new terminals can also do contactless, but like the Chip reader, most retailers leave it turned off on preference. As for a phone emulating a Chip card, the physics of the reader and the design of the cards will likely preclude integration.

      PS. Early experience with the Chip notes that using it is slower, especially on low-value transactions, than the stripe, which may turn off some people who already have zero-liability on small-ticket (no need to sign) transactions (as do the retailers).

      1. jonathanb Silver badge

        In the rest of the civilised world, magnetic swipe transactions were phased out about 10 years ago, and everyone uses chip&pin, except for a few pay-by-bonk transactions. In France, it was phased out about 20 years ago.

        1. Charles 9

          So if an American with a Chip card comes along, the retailers are SOL?

          1. Anonymous Coward
            Anonymous Coward

            Depends on your point of view... assuming you mean if a Yank swaggers up with an antiquated swipe card, it couldn't possibly the Yank that's "SOL" and has to swagger off for some cash?

          2. Anonymous Coward
            Anonymous Coward

            So if an American with a Chip card comes along, the retailers are SOL?

            No, the readers retain a steam-powered metal dust reader for the convenience of those who only have that quaint old type of card. :)

            1. Charles 9

              Then the phones can use THAT. That's the point. Anything that can take a stripe can take this.

              1. jonathanb Silver badge

                If the card has a chip on it, the terminal will not accept a swipe transaction.

                1. This post has been deleted by its author

        2. Charlie Clark Silver badge

          In the rest of the civilised world, magnetic swipe transactions were phased out about 10 years ago, and everyone uses chip&pin, except for a few pay-by-bonk transactions. In France, it was phased out about 20 years ago.

          "If only it were true…" or more accurately, that simple. Yes, chips were introduced in Europe (initially in France about 15 years ago to combat skimming) but the magnetic stripes are still there and still very much in use. The banks in Germany even had to go back to using them briefly on cash machine due a to SNAFU a couple of years ago.

          The US has never really cared much about card fraud: lucrative insurance schemes were the preferred solution.

          Now the banks are pushing NFC "girogo" terminals and services to merchants.

        3. This post has been deleted by its author

  7. dajames
    Joke

    A lot of fuss to spend a penny ...

    Oh, LoopPay?, I must have misread that.

    I needed a 'p', anyway.

    1. dotdavid

      Re: A lot of fuss to spend a penny ...

      Loopy?

  8. Nigel Steward
    FAIL

    I have just bought a Note 4

    I have had a Note 1, Note 2 & Note 3 - clearly I like the format.

    I decided to skip a generation & replace my Note 3 with a Note 5 when announced rather than buy a Note 4. But no removable battery or SD slot means the Note 5 is not for me.

    Accordingly I have just signed up for a Note 4, and hope that Samsung will recognise the error of their ways & have a removable battery & SD card on the next generation of the Note - if not then Samsung have lost my business.

    NJSS

  9. kmac499

    All I want for Xmas

    Android 4.5" screen, 4G, decent memory, SD Slot, LED Torch sorry flash, Back and Front camera at phone not DSLR quality, Replacable battery. FM radio would be nice as would NFC. I don't do games or HD video.

    Can I find one that ticks all these boxes, can I buggery, there's always one tick missing

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: All I want for Xmas

      Look harder. If you spent your time getting what you want rather than complaining then you'd have the phone that you're after. Quit complaining and buy a HTC Desire 601...

  10. Salamander

    I wonder what the commentariat of this site are going to do

    When all phones have non replaceable batteries and not microsd card slots.

    As much as these are nice features the majority of the phone buying public just don't care about them and are happy with the Apple approach of a fully sealed unit.

    As far as I can tell, no amount of screaming and the cursing if providence is going to change the situation. Sooner or later you will have to accept the fact and join the sheep in the Shoreditch pub.

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: I wonder what the commentariat of this site are going to do

      Or we'll just hang on to our old phones until they break and keep getting slottable and swappable phones on the secondhand market until they run dry. After that...we may just vote with out feet and abandon the phone market altogether. I've heard enough stories of exploding batteries in sealed phones to not place my trust in them on an everyday basis. Plus with the increased use of HD videos, no amount of internal storage will be able to last long-term.

      Oh, AND I will tell all my friends of the potential dangers and the longevity issues involved.

      1. Salamander

        Re: I wonder what the commentariat of this site are going to do

        Exploding batteries in sealed phones? I will believe that when I feel it.

        But seriously folks, if there is not a big enough market for a slottable and swappable phone, then you can hardly blame the OEMs for not bothering.

        1. Charles 9

          Re: I wonder what the commentariat of this site are going to do

          Just search "exploding iPhones" (all of which are sealed) and you'll get a laundry list. I recently swapped out the battery of my S4 after over two years because it was starting to bulge dangerously, so I can speak of the dangers firsthand.

        2. Anonymous Coward
          Holmes

          Re: I wonder what the commentariat of this site are going to do

          But seriously folks, if there is not a big enough market for a slottable and swappable phone...

          Pretty certain that you'll find the "market for a slottable and swappable phone" to be a superset of the market for landfill flagships.

  11. Unicornpiss
    Meh

    If you settle...

    ..for something you don't want and have paid retail for, then you've voted. If you voted, you can't complain about the regime. (though you still should) Unfortunately it seems most of the damage to creativity, free will, and usefulness is done by marketing types and lawyers. Usually the engineers push for features and are shut down.

    Forgive me for the depressing comment, but I've just been reading a history of Commodore...

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