back to article Amazon creating 500 ‘fulfilling’ jobs in the UK

Amazon is looking for 500 new minions in the Dunstable area. The online superstore is to open a new 310,000 sq ft "fulfilment centre". Amazon’s “passion” and “customer obsession” means this is the ninth shipping warehouse centre in the UK. The eight others together employ more than 7,000 people. Recruitment will be via local …

  1. Anonymous Coward
    Meh

    So...

    ...the US had high temperatures (I've worked in hotter), Germany is arguing the toss over Union agreed rates and this is relevant how in the UK?

    1. Buzzword

      Re: So...

      This is relevant in that Amazon has a reputation for poor industrial relations. In other words, applicant beware.

      1. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        Re: So...

        "applicant beware."

        Maybe. But I'd have thought that a brand new warehouse using meatsack pickers just North of London is a major failing of Amazon's technology department. Surely it is about time they had robo-pickers and packers? That way workers can be happily unexploited doing, well, something elsewhere, and I can still access cheap, convenient tat.

        1. Richard 22

          Re: So...

          As mentioned in this years annual shareholder letter, Amazon does use robotics in their fulfilment centres to increase densities;

          https://www.sec.gov/Archives/edgar/data/1018724/000119312515144741/d895323dex991.htm

          "Our worldwide network of fulfillment centers has expanded from 13 in 2005, when we launched Prime, to 109 this year. We are now on our eighth generation of fulfillment center design, employing proprietary software to manage receipt, stowing, picking, and shipment. Amazon Robotics, which began with our acquisition of Kiva in 2012, has now deployed more than 15,000 robots to support the stowing and retrieval of products at a higher density and lower cost than ever before"

          Not fully robotic, but robot assisted.

        2. Charlie Clark Silver badge

          Re: So...

          Surely it is about time they had robo-pickers and packers?

          People are probably cheaper and more flexible for their needs, though I don't think warehousing costs are that high for them anyway. The real money goes on delivering individual packages to individual houses.

      2. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        Re: So...

        OK so in one case (the heat), it was a one off incident, they called paramedic in, sent people home if they couldn't cool down.

        That heat is not excessive. I used to do manual work in much higher temperatures. Now if they failed to provide water,or failed to call any medical help then there is an issue. Working in that heat, is not.

        1. Triggerfish

          Re: So...

          Thing is if you look at some comments by US workers working for Amazon warehouses, It seems the chance for going for a drink seems slim, they work them down to the last second and if you are a bit behind on how quick you pick things, come back from break (which also includes checking in and out for the break as part of your break time) I get the impression with US laws on employment and dismissal you are pretty much out of the window that day.

        2. Olius

          Re: So...

          Eh? If they had to be "treated for heat related problems", then the heat was excessive for them. If they had been sent home at a more appropriate time (ie, as soon as conditions deteriorated), they wouldn't have had to be treated. If Amazon had fitted air conditioning, there would have been no problem. Therefore, they were made to work in unsafe conditions. To discipline a member of staff for reporting the conditions is to admit liability for this (If they weren't liable, they would have not had a problem with the complaint, right?)

    2. Lamont Cranston

      As a resident of the town in question,

      I'll look forward to my freshly re-elected MP trumpeting this triumph of job creation, and singing Amazon's praises. I doubt he'll make any mention of an Amazon warehouse being shit place to work - he not required to, of course, but that shouldn't stop media outlets drawing attention to it.

      1. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        Re: As a resident of the town in question,

        " I doubt he'll make any mention of an Amazon warehouse being shit place to work"

        A valid point, but there's lots of crummy jobs required in this world that most Reg readers will be pleased they don't have to do. Toilet cleaner, dustman, delivery driver, road sweeper, ticket inspector, debt collector, tyre fitter, keeping sewers clear, railway track worker, A&E porter, etc etc. And all those jobs need doing by somebody - they're often dirty, sometimes dangerous, and poorly paid.

        I'd suggest that working as an order picker in an Amazon warehouse is pretty far along from the worst jobs in the land.

        1. Lamont Cranston

          Re: "order picker in an Amazon warehouse is pretty far along from the worst jobs in the land"

          From what I've heard, it has a fairly high attrition rate.

          Besides, a job might be dirty and dangerous, but that's no reason for an employer to treat its employees like dirt.

          BTW, automation seems to have done for ticket inspectors (no doubt fare-dodging is now non-existant, and ticket prices have fallen to the floor).

          1. Anonymous Coward
            Anonymous Coward

            Re: "order picker in an Amazon warehouse is pretty far along from the worst jobs in the land"

            "From what I've heard, it has a fairly high attrition rate. Besides, a job might be dirty and dangerous, but that's no reason for an employer to treat its employees like dirt."

            I don't doubt that as a job it has a high attrition rate - probably hard work, unrewarding and shift based. But I don;t hear Amazon-esque abuse of Tesco, who have a high attrition rate, or call centres that equally have a high attrition rate.

            But when it comes to treating shift workers like dirt, I'd like to hold up that icon of public worship, the National Health Service. Incompetent, demotivating shit head managers, clinically and managerially incompetent too often, and full of unrewarding, poorly paid jobs that often have quite high vocational training demands.

            That still doesn't make treating people like dirt right, but if that's the real concern, then maybe we start with the publicly controlled organisation with almost 1.4m staff, rather than a loss making foreign owned company that employs a couple of thousand in the UK?

          2. Anonymous Coward
            Anonymous Coward

            Re: "order picker in an Amazon warehouse is pretty far along from the worst jobs in the land"

            "ticket prices have fallen to the floor"

            well, the windfall from "relieving" the ticket inspectors has fallen, but not to the floor, obviously. No need to guess where it's fallen into. That's called "progress", I hear.

    3. Bleu

      Re: So...

      This is amazing. We have several commenters claiming to have worked in intolerably hot conditions.

      Come to think of it, so have I, and would not willingly do it again.

      I am not to be the 'net detective, but it is hard not to suspect some of those commentards of shilling for Amazon.

      After all, there are scores of shills for Apple, why not a few for Amazon?

      1. Triggerfish

        Re: So...

        Having worked in hot places, including a place vulcanising rubber heats not often an issue as long as its not humid, but having done various things that take physical exertion in heat and humidity that's when it gets bad.

      2. Anonymous Coward
        Flame

        Re: So...

        Shill for Amazon, no. I made self adhesive paper in a factory (where incidentally I also had the skin ripped from 2 of my fingers).

        Average temp was 30c in the Winter and about 40 - 45 in summer.

        When you have a 6 inch gas main as the feed for the machine, to dry out the adhesive, it gives you a clue how much heat this thing kicked out....and as pointed out, blacksmiths, glass makers and foundry workers work even hotter temperatures.

        Hot work, 12 hour shifts and mediocre wages.

        But instead of whining and whinging I got of my arse and did something about it. Train myself up and took a 5k a year pay cut and got out.

  2. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    All applicants should be required to read the following

    http://marshallbrain.com/manna1.htm

  3. ratfox
    Alert

    "fun, past-paced warehouse environment"

    Also required reading: I Was a Warehouse Wage Slave

    (Though admittedly this particular story did not happen in an Amazon warehouse).

    1. Bleu

      Re: "fun, past-paced warehouse environment"

      'Fun' and 'warehouse' are a contradiction in terms, unless of course, your friends also work there, and you have the chance of a smoke break along the dismal day.

  4. msknight

    The Amazon Effect

    A while ago, I blogged on various bits and pieces about Amazon that I'd read from workers, from companies that used Amazon as their main sales platform and experienced as a customer. Happy reading - http://msknight.booklikes.com/post/1113831/the-amazon-effect

    1. Richard Jones 1
      WTF?

      Re: The Amazon Effect

      Sorry, please show relevance.

      A little while back many workers for German factories had poor conditions and worked, well like slaves. In fact come to think of it they were slaves. That is NOT relevant either to conditions in another country in another time, horrific though it was to those there at that time.

      Some basic level manual labour type jobs are viewed as entry level for many workers,keen to get a job while they search out something better. Many people find it easier to get a job once they are already working. This can result in higher turnover, any location with a seasonal component will have turn over issues the loss of seasonal staff at the end of a season can cause others to search out somewhere new.

      Conducting a mock auction of crap jobs is not entirely helpful to anyone, it devalues those who perform them either through choice or necessity.

      If you don't need that sort of job, try to avoid insulting those who do.

  5. Refugee from Windows

    Spotted the building

    Ripon Workhouse. No don't give Iain Duncan Smith any ideas...

  6. Pen-y-gors

    Wage rates?

    To be fair to amazon (yes, I know it's difficult), they are at least paying £8.10 an hour, which is noticeably above minimum wage, and in fact above the 'living wage' outside London (currently £7.85). <insert political point-scoring comment here e.g. SNP are campaigning for £8.70 minimum wage>

  7. Jim 59

    Having seen that documentary a couple of years ago, I certainly would not like to work there.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rkNO8J4XSIc

    It seems that you are electronically tagged and timed, having only a set number of seconds to do each pick, and will be sacked otherwise. There are much other unpleasantness too. Somebody above mentioned toilet cleaners and so on, but these jobs ore often better paid (railway worker), have some measure of independence (van driver) and you are not treated like an insect.

    1. Richard Jones 1
      Angel

      @Jim59

      At 50 pence per drop a lot of van drivers do find it very hard work to get a good rate as many of them also own and support the van.

      Did anyone see the food programmes dealing with the production and warehouse operation of food companies, they looked about the same as most warehouse operations I have seen.

    2. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      "it seems that you are electronically tagged and timed, having only a set number of seconds to do each pick, and will be sacked otherwise. There are much other unpleasantness too. "

      I work for a company that operates call centres (amongst many other things). The "management systems" time how long people go to the bog for, the call centre operators are silently monitored by compliance staff for one in eight calls, and if you don't meet the numbers you'll find your moved on. Doesn't sound too different.

      "Somebody above mentioned toilet cleaners and so on, but these jobs ore often better paid ....."

      Toilet cleaners are, in my experience, paid minimum wage wherever in the country they work. My employers outsourced all facilities management for the simple reason that the corporate pay scales didn't go low enough.

      "better paid .....(railway worker), "

      Being a track worker is shit. Literally. On some lines the train toilets still flush onto the track as it passes at speed. Make a mistake (or if your lookout man makes a mistake) and there won't even be enough of you found to fill a bin liner. Add in hugely unsocial hours, working in sun, rain or overnight, and it makes Amazon picking look a glorious job, regardless of the rates of pay.

      "and you are not treated like an insect."

      I think your desire to shout down Amazon has clouded your judgement.

      1. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        the corporate pay scales didn't go low enough.

        Bollocks. They were going bankrupt because the bog cleaners were too expensive? No, they were penny pinching fucks who wanted clean toilets but didn't want to pay for them.

        If you can't afford to pay someone a decent wage then your business model is broken or your management are incompetent.

  8. Ye Gads

    So it sounds like

    a job in fulfilment leaves the person doing it unfulfilled...

    Oh, the irony

  9. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    Eh, mixed emotions on this one.

    8.10 Sterling is not a horrible wage outside of London and Kent, and I agree with Amazon's contention that their warehouse workers are in logistics and not in retail. However, the reason you see so few of these jobs actually being advertised is because they outsource a large majority of them through contract/temp labor firms. Also, the bit with having people work in extremely hot buildings is pretty unforgivable in this day and age. Plus Amazon fullfillment workers have to walk something like 8-10 miles a day in the course of filling orders. Depending on your health that can be a good or bad thing.

    So, if you need some cash to make ends meet or for a specific purpose, these jobs sound fine, but I'm not sure I would consider them a career opportunity.

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: Eh, mixed emotions on this one.

      ref. "career opportunity", one more thing. Amazon job, like any other hard labour is a dead end for _most_ people, because they leave you exhausted manually, and, strangely enough, brain-dead at the end of each day. Basically, you come home, you slump, turn the telly on, and the last thing you want is stimulating your brain by learning anything new, or even just searching for a proper job to get out of this work camp you volunteered for. And the inertia sets in really fast, a couple of months, a year, and you're done for terms of personal and professional development. This is my observation, not from amazon, but from, in a similar establishment, watching people who got sucked in there for longer, and probably for ever.

      Perhaps, ironically, high attrition at amazon is God-set for those who are cast out of the Amazon "fun" community. If you survived amazon, you can expect to survive almost everything else after that.

    2. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: Eh, mixed emotions on this one.

      Between jobs, the Amazon center I worked at required 15-20 miles of walking to make rate. It isn't the walking that shreds your body, it's the constant up and down. Most people don't bend at the knees for small stupid stuff, but it'll still damage your back. I unloaded totes (10-15 pounds over the weight that they were supposed to be) and it's not easy for people to keep up. I was dumb enough to be fast at it. You have to drop a tote on the conveyor every few seconds... this includes unwrapping the pallet and moving the empty skids out of the way for the forklift driver. It also means that if the skids are too close or far away from the conveyor, you have to work faster to deal with that lack of space or extra walking distance (and .36 second each way makes a huge difference at high volumes). Heat was never a problem. Water/Gatorade was never a problem. Bathrooms were a problem, since you had to take the stairs on the second or third floors and find a nearby/unoccupied one. During the busy season, you also get a lot of flu funk sticking around in them (they do try to keep them clean regularly, but sheer numbers really hinders it.

      Our pay was supposed to be close to $15 (for the massive tax breaks all companies are now entitled to for about 10 years before they up an move to the next tax break). In reality, part of that is your stock option, which you only get after more than a year of employment.... so most won't ever see it. The other part is a 'bonus' which is not based on your individual performance, but by everyone's. That means all those short term temps and slackers that can't keep up impact the pay you should have gotten because they make mistakes (new or don't care) and aren't as fast (again... new or don't care). The only reward for consistently being faster, is that they raise the rate until they realize they're burning out the top employees that have stuck around.

      If you want a good entry level employee... find an Amazon warehouse worker that's survived a christmas season or one that's worked an entire year. It isn't impossible to slack at that job, but it's highly unlikely.

  10. JP19

    Creating

    I wish people/press would stop with this 'creating' bullshit.

    Unless the retail sales are expanding and need 500 people more to pack stuff jobs have not been created. They have just been moved from elsewhere in the sector and if amazon is efficient (and they likely are) their 500 jobs replace more than 500 elsewhere and jobs have actually being destroyed.

    The same with every new supermarket announcement.

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: Creating

      "I wish people/press would stop with this 'creating' bullshit."

      Why the big deal. It's hardly Amazon's job to report net job market figures, is it?

    2. Greg 16

      Re: Creating

      When the population is increasing by several hundred thousand a year and the economy is improving every year, I think it's fair to assume that retail sales are expanding. Though I take your point that new jobs for created by one company are often at the expense of the jobs of their competitors.

  11. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    It's like some people don't know what a lot of jobs are like. Many much worse than doing this job with Amazon.

  12. Bleu

    I want a job in hell

    At an Amazon warehouse.

    Not really.

  13. Bleu

    They also do the

    mechanical Turk, sure as hell inhuman. How much money Bezos extracts from that, I have no idea, fact is, various parties are using and paying for the second-rate services of Amazon's mechanical Turk. Of course, neither mechanical nor Turkish.

  14. Triggerfish

    Employment laws

    Could be wrong but I always get the impression from stories in the US about companies like Amazon and Walmart that there seems to be quite a lack of protection for workers in US laws that leave them open to more abuse than countries like us or Germany would tolerate.

  15. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    Will these folks...

    ...work for slave wages in blistering hot warehouses like other Amazon fulfillment centers?

  16. szponar

    At 38 degrees the body cannot lose heat - human body temperature is 37 degrees. Any reasonable employer would take steps to ensure that the working environment was at a comfortable level.

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