NBN Co, Turnbull, issue contradictory broadband speed promises NBN Co has signed definitive agreements to acquire Telstra's copper network, plus the hybrid fibre-coax networks belonging to both Telstra and Optus, but just what the deals will deliver is uncertain after communications minister Malcolm Turnbull and NBN Co issued conflicting advice on the speeds the network will deliver. The …
The coalition's
"Yesterday's Network Tomorrow"
is a lot better than Labors
"Tomorrow's Network Never".
I just want a reliable 5 mbs. Copper is fine. But I want it now, not after every city resident has had fibre to the home laid. Which would probably have been never once the money ran out.
Fibre was never going to be delivered to us poor sods that have no broadband at all. But there is absolutely no good excuse for anyone that has a telephone to not also be able to have 5mbs. Now, today.
I assume you're in a rural area?
Guess what, you're getting satellite, and a shit satellite at that since they coalition cut budget, and since the LNP have the Nationals on a tight leash they give even less of a toss about you than Labor.
This network is worse in every possible way than the NBN, it will take longer, it will be slower and it will cost more. We the Australian tax payer have just paid Telstra for thousands of kilometres of corroded copper in broken ducts, the vast majority will have to be ripped out of the ground and replaced with, you guessed it, fibre.
Fibre to the node might, make sense if the copper network in this country were in good nick, but it's not, it's awful. I'm in less than 10 minutes from the CBD in light traffic and the qualify of my connection to the exchange is so bad I can't get reliable fixed line telephone service, forget internet. Sticking a two meter tall powered cabinet every few hundred meters isn't going to fix that.
My brothers rural, installing NBN connections in homes.
Fixed Wireless - faster than a 56k modem he reckons !!!
"Wholesale" speeds up to 25 Mbs or Wholesale speeds up to 12 Mbs,
depending which NBN "fact" sheet you read.
Would be interesting to get some real feedback from (L)users
http://speedtest.btwholesale.com/
purchase the copper network?....
Can I sell them some old gear I am trying to get rid of as well? I bet Telstra and Optus run all the way to the bank.
Here is our old kit for full price and yes I can charge you to service it while I spend money on building new future proof infra.
I still don't understand why they don't just contract regions out for companies to provide fibre but ownership remains public with free lease to that company until costs are covered or some form of deal that way.
This post has been deleted by its author
Actually NBN bought all the coxial that was laid down for the purposes of delivering TV to houses, to that stuff wasn't laid down with tax payer money /pedant
That being said, it's a bloody awful purchase. They have bought copper that was originally built for one way communications, namely broadcasting Pay TV. Internet was an afterthought.
I am not buying the 25Mbps bollocks because the network is coaxial, and thus a shared medium. I am sure it'll be "Up to" 25Mps if it's a full moon and you are the only one on the segment.
More than likely it'll crawl around 5-10Mbps, and slow down to the speed of a stunned sloth in peak times when everyone hops on.
NBN is becoming a bigger joke the longer the LNP are allowed to be in charge, and will be a face by the time they are kicked out of office.
All I want is speedy internet for a reasonable price, why is that so freaking hard ??!? !
My "up to 12 Mb/s" on fixed wireless just tested at 2.63 Mb/s on Ookla. Bloke up the road gets ~20 Mb/s on ADSL2. Later this year he'll be restricted to satellite, or mobile wireless because there's no signal at his place from the fixed wireless tower. All part of the original ALP NBN Plan for this part of rural Tasmania. Superfast broadband? Not so much...
> Bloke up the road gets ~20 Mb/s on ADSL2. Later this year he'll be restricted to satellite, or mobile wireless because there's no signal at his place from the fixed wireless tower.
This highlights the stupidity of Labor's ideology first approach. Small rural communities would have been better served by FTTN than being pushed onto fixed wireless or worse satellite. HFC will be adequate for most people for a while to come yet. Labor should have focused on those areas of greatest need (e.g. suburbs established post 1970) first to deliver the greatest benefit.
"This highlights the stupidity of Labor's ideology first approach. Small rural communities would have been better served by FTTN than being pushed onto fixed wireless or worse satellite."
What total crap! Yes FTTN may be faster than wireless or satellite but once you're over 300M away it's no better than ADSL2 which a lot already have and lets face it most rural people ARE more than 300M away.
There is absolutely no point to spending billions putting in a new system that is no better than what people already have.
As far as I'm concerned if you have a copper line now then you should get fibre at some time. Until then leave the current system in place. Don't waste money on a crap system that offers no improvement.
> That being said, it's a bloody awful purchase. They have bought copper that was originally built for one way communications, namely broadcasting Pay TV. Internet was an afterthought.
Rudd took a FTTN policy to the 2007 election, but changed to FTTP when Telstra wouldn't negotiate. Labor were paying exactly the same just to rent ducting. This way we at least have the copper with an open wholesale market. Telstra was being paid to disconnect customers from the HFC. This way we get the HFC and can deliver faster internet more quickly.
> NBN is becoming a bigger joke the longer the LNP are allowed to be in charge, and will be a farce by the time they are kicked out of office.
Labor's NBN was full of spin:
- 1Gbps only announced prior to the 2010 election because of Google fibre)
- Prices to rise dramatically as demand increased (ARPU need to reach $100/month by 2020 for the numbers to work)
- eMedicine not realistic, because 50% had 12Mbps and those places that really need it would have only had wireless or satellite connections
> All I want is speedy internet for a reasonable price, why is that so freaking hard ??!? !
Because politicians didn't think through the outcomes of their policies. The second problem is thinking about yourself and not the nation as a whole.
There are issues with NBN, I have TPG 100MBs x 40 MBs Unlimited, its soooooo nice, I still have a 8 bit card slot 300 baud modem from first PC, so I remember the slowness ... But 1.97gb file in 43 secs, 352GB archive of Home video & Photos collated from 9 family's from Europe, to here 5 hours ...
But it does just die some nights, NO Internet, NO Phone, longest being 6 hours in middle of night last week, I reported these outages to NBN, I am a older person but can use a mobile if need be, but most older Aussie still don't own a mobile, just a Land-line, as I ask NBN Co, not specifically about me, but, if someones having a heart attack and NBN fibre phone is dead, and they don't have a mobile, because they are use to reliable old copper, what to do ?
NBN co's answer, get a Medi Alert system, and they will maintain the copper for that system ....
So does that mean if you have a "critical" use, they keep copper installed, what is this saying about the network they are building ...
Also the NBN wall Router & UPS, who looks after firmware updates etc on it ? NBN Co didn't know ....
and welcomes your tech startups to our lovely FTTH network and better beaches. Writing this comment on a relatively meagre 30/10 fibre plan but could change to 200/200 tomorrow if so inclined.
We had FTTN before that, so most of those waiting for fibre can get ADSL2+ or VDSL already. Those on VDSL experiencing gradually slower sync rates as more houses sign up and the crosstalk interference becomes an issue.
I am tempted by your promises of fiber, but then I am reminded of your 3rd rate cricket team and penchant for shagging sheep.
That being said, a move across the ditch is looking better and better nowadays.
Anything is better than here, and at least you have a top notch rugby team.
Where was the outrage when Labor repeatedly released NBNCOo Corporate Plans which clearly stated that 50% of fibre connections would be 12Mbps. The minimum Liberal speed is more than double this.
Sure some people are going to be worse off, but they have the option of moving or installing direct fibre when that becomes available.
Again as I have told you those 50% would not have been paying for the but then you seam to have trouble understanding how economics works and the usage pay model.
Would you be happy to move to a house that has higher prices because it has fiber because your poor copper can only deliver you 25Mbps or would you be happy to pay for fiber while your neighbor doesn't have to?
> Again as I have told you those 50% would not have been paying for the but then you seam to have trouble understanding how economics works and the usage pay model.
WRONG. The 50% don't want the expense of a fibre upgrade. A similar situation exists in the electricity market. People built poorly designed McMansions in the suburbs and installed massive aircons which required upgrading of the electricity infrastructure which was passed on to everyone as increased service charges. Installing fibre so that less than 5% could have 1Gbps connections in 2028 is the same problem. It would have been much cheaper to install direct fibre just to those properties on demand.
If you argued that everyone was entitled to fast speeds (100Mbps and faster) then you could argue it was a national building project What Labor planned was not what the headlines promised (1Gbps for all) and instead would only have been of benefit to the rich (much like the school building program).
> Would you be happy to move to a house that has higher prices because it has fiber because your poor copper can only deliver you 25Mbps or would you be happy to pay for fiber while your neighbor doesn't have to?
I'm considering both, although I'm yet to see any evidence of higher prices for houses with fibre. If we assume that fibre install is under $5000 then this is less than 1% of the average house price. Optus have already discussed making the installation payments over 24 months when on a plan so that lessens the upfront cost.
> which required upgrading of the electricity infrastructure
and FTTP is the equivalent of the entire electricity network being replaced with 12mm^2 cables, done once, done properly. Many may not need it right now, but at least they have the option of installing a massive air-con unit should they need it. They could even install huge solar arrays and feed back into the grid without causing any major problems.
> It would have been much cheaper to install direct fibre just to those properties on demand
I see you've never tried to haul a new fibre cable through an already occupied duct. If it can even fit, while it is being pulled through, it will rub on and through the aged softer copper cable that is already in place. Then you have yet another problem of having to locate, retrieve and repair the now damaged copper cable, adding yet another joint that will reduce the overall capacity of what that copper can carry.
> it was a national building project
people in the industry did consider it just that. And at least with FTTP there is an *option* of 1Gb/s. It will only take one major new thing to make people want to jump above that 12Mb/s, of course, no-one in this country is interested in developing that new thing anymore.
WRONG. The 50% don't want the expense of a fibre upgrade. A similar situation exists in the electricity market. People built poorly designed McMansions in the suburbs and installed massive aircons which required upgrading of the electricity infrastructure which was passed on to everyone as increased service charges. Installing fibre so that less than 5% could have 1Gbps connections in 2028 is the same problem. It would have been much cheaper to install direct fibre just to those properties on demand.
So what your saying that is NBNco should not have $24 for 12/1 upto a $38 100/40 they should be the same price so everyone pays the same. While we are at it why don't we average the CVC charges to everyone we don't those high end users paying more than there far share.
If what you are say was true then the ARPU from NBN would be closer to $24 then being $39 above the 100Mbps price. Economics 101 the top 1% of users uses 50% more than the bottom 50% of users. That CVC charge it what pays for people like you to get a nice low cost 12/1 not the other way around. So try again.
Well they said to go of UK prices and the average there is $5k cheaper if you are closer but cost more the further away you are. But if you less than 500M to the node you don't have to pay you should get an upto 100Mbps unless your copper is shit. But then the SR said the average FTTP per premises was only $2200 while the Melton rollout was only $1300.
The other problem is that paying for fiber is not GPON you getting its still FTTN. Still with the limits on congestion of the NODE have between 200 to 400 connection. While GPON was made with a 1:1 contention.
Electricity and broadband runs completely differently. Electricity grid will fail as users drop more than what the grid can handle. Broadband its limited to want your connection can offer you. EG. HFC at midday you could get speeds of upto 50mbps as your the only one on it. After 5:00pm you might only get 6Mbps as you are sharing it with other people (kids) you can draw more as that is what the connection can only give you at the time.
> So what your saying that is NBNco should not have $24 for 12/1 upto a $38 100/40 they should be the same price so everyone pays the same. While we are at it why don't we average the CVC charges to everyone we don't those high end users paying more than there far share.
I suggest a flat $20 for AVC. CVC is where you charge based on usage, because it is usage that puts strain on the network. To fix that NBNCo and RSPs would need to purchase additional infrastructure. Off peak quotas exist to encourage heavy downloaders to schedule their downloads in quieter times.
> While GPON was made with a 1:1 contention.
WRONG. GPON does have contention. Under Labor's plan the worst case scenario was 78Mbps per premises. Not really a problem since it is pretty unlikely that people will be maxing out their connections 24/7.
> Electricity and broadband runs completely differently.
WRONG. You may not have experienced a brown-out but it is what occurs in an electricty grid when too much power is being drawn and is rapidly followed by selective blackouts to prevent damage to electrical devices.
You love to contradict your self Mathew42
>you charge based on usage
Say 10 mil users for argument sake
12/1 $24 50% 5Mil users $120mil month
100/40 $38 20% 2 Mil users $7.6mil month
CVC charges for argument sake say 1c per Mb just going off iinet plans
12/1 plan has say 40Gb 50% users $2B (min data usage)
100/40 plan has say 1000Gb 20% users $20B (max data usage)
So again who is paying for who? the 50% on 12/1 at $2B a month or 20% at $20B a month.
Hope that clears it up or are you just looking at the $120M vs $7.6m.
But now that revenue is gone as NBNco is only required to supply an upto 25Mbps service.
lol worst case scenario. Atm GPON2.5 is 26 premise with 8 spare for future upgrades on a 2.5Gbps 1:1 contention.
sorry your wrong.
LOL never heard of a broadband blackout before because of people trying to use more than what there connection can give them.
Your really clutching at straws aren't you
One of the things I have learn in last 43 years of PC's, is the numbers only go up, but prices go down ...
12/1MBS & slower, etc will die off, once 4k smart TV starts streaming 4k content in significant quantities, or 4k will go away, as a lightwave user I think it's pain, its gunna be like going back to amiga render farm speed of framerate output, with 4k format, just when I can process 1920x1080 40-60 frames per sec, I will have to look @ DSPC-8682, a Full-length PCI Express Card with 8 TMS320C6678 DSPs, just to able to render 4k video ...
Internet Speeds & capacities will have to increase to cope ....
I have a 8bit card slot 300 baud modem, from original PC, if someone has a motherboard that can take it, I will give to Malcolm to check his emails with ....
So, customers *choosing* 12Mb/s with FTTH, which is way less than the maximum capacity is a bad thing, when being forced onto a connection at twice that rate -- and presumably paying for the privilege -- is a good thing? That 25Mb/s is going to be much closer to the maximum ceiling that copper can deliver too, unless you live next door to an exchange or have a rather large cabinet on the footpath by your letterbox.
you must be an economist the way you use figures.
FTTP gives everyone the same choice, and as you point out, 50% will choose 12/1
this MTM is going to ensure you can get 25/? - anything else is luck
so the other 50% who want more than a bottom rung, essentially lose that choice without a hefty bill (assuming fibre direct ever happens). And sure less than 1% of a house cost so if you buy a house, you'd get that done. but i can't see any landlords going for it. and as renters aren't the most affluent it's unlikely they'll be able to afford to do it - and honestly, unless you had very good terms you couldn't unless you paid it outright.
I don't agree with a some of the ways labor went about their NBN, but this is purely vindictive. The revised build costs for FTTP have been coming down, and the FTTN costs have been going up. That gets ignored. Yes moving ADSL users off that network for fixed wireless is terrible, but the copper was an issue, only small scale deals would have fixed that. FTTN isn't going to help the guy on good ADSL in the country, he isn't going to get a FTTN node any time soon, or ever, so all he might win is getting to keep the ADSL. LNP is still rolling out fixed wireless so it'll probably mean the guy loses his ADSL anyway.
We already know HFC is not fit for purpose, even when it was overpriced I watched HFC networks peak out and serious users swap to ADSL. Why is buying one terrible system and building another terrible system on top of a falling apart system still going ahead. Its vindictive.
just because when offered 50% of people will choose price over performance doesn't mean the other 50% want to lose their options to choose because its better than the bottom rung. I'm sure 25/? Mbps FTTN will cost more than the 12/1 FTTP so really everyone loses, either paying more or getting less. Not to mention anything of reliability or uploads just finalises how terrible this is.
but fuck yea team australia, maybe abbott's head is turnbulls suppository of wisdom these days.
because apparently you are the only one who misunderstood the statement.
the stated the expected 50% of the user base to sign up for a 12/1mbps plan (the lowest and cheapest possible speed to sign up for). which also means they expect the other half to sign up for 25/5 or greater at more cost.
12mbps is double the average australian download speed.
the FTTN 25mbps promise will only work if they have cabinates very close to houses or are delivering services via HFC which today has a lower shared bandwidth then fibre.
Curently I have Optus cable and it tests at 15 mb/sec download. Recently the NBN installers put a box on my wall and now my servce provider wants me to migrate to the NBN where I will get 12mb/sec for a slightly higher price. This is preposterous: Why should I change to an inferior service? Where the heck is this mythical 25 mb/sec service? I won't be downgrading unless they force me to.
Oh yes, to JamesTQuirk, I doubt we will be seeing 4K TV in a hurry: it's too expensive and for what? At least the move to HD was a visible improvement onscreen.
You would find the FTTP 12/1 faster than your 15Mb cable (considering your cable is delivering you an up to 30Mb). Because your upload speed which is like .3Mbps does affect your download speed as well.
Well IInet has 12/1 plans starting at $50 or you can go for 25/5 for $55.
Consider Japan will be transmitting in 8K for their Olympics really shows how far we are behind and will continue to be under the new NBN. There is a visible difference from HD to 4K just walking to a Harvey Norman store and watch there demo. Just at the moment there is nothing in Australia that can output to 4K unless you VPN to Netflix.
Unless you count, KMart (yes $199), quad core 10" tablet, that really is a 12 core, 4 cpu's & 8 GPU's, hdmi happily will output 4k, pity I couldn't be bothered looking for 4k TV to test it ....
PSs I saw 80 core "desktops", 32gb on board, SD slots, 4 USB, HDMI 4k output, a all in one Linux PC, $160 in lots of 10 on alibaba, about the size of of the old round tobacco TINS ....
All this tech, Cheap, that requires super fast, reliable connection to stream 4k, MADE by MILLIONS in china somewhere, hope the networks can takes it ... ;)
PSSS ... TPG $89.95, All local, Nat Calls free, mobiles cost, so I use mine, but Unlimited 100MBSx40MBs Fibre NBN, Month to month Contract .....
A 1.97 GB file in 43 secs, A 354GB Archive, of Photos & videos, from 9 European familys to a Branch here, 5 hours, I think I missed the end ...
Its nice, when it works ....
The Register 
Biting the hand that feeds IT
Copyright. All rights reserved © 1998–2024
