You should install smart meters even if they're dumb, says flack

HaHaHa.

We had E.ON around the other month to install one. Seems they needed a mobile signal connection. Tough you only get mobile signal in our village if you stand on the cistern in the pub's loo. Installer shrugged and beat a retreat.

Only went through because of corruption. Huge waste of money attempting to put everyone on smart meters.

http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2009/jan/30/lords-energy-bill

In the Netherlands the old meters count backwards when feeding back to the grid. In the olden days nobody did that. But in the days of solar panels it's the most economic way for the customer. You probably can understand why they want smart meters.

No "Smart" meter for me, if they need I reading, I provide that online, now whether companies like First Utility can provide an accurate bill, that is a big question, for the last 18 months they have been an EPIC FAIL ! !

I wonder about this kind of approach.

Spending money on retrofitting homes with modern levels of insulation, heat recovery ventilation, high insulation windows and sensible levels of insulation in plumbing systems would make more sense.

The insulation levels found in a lot of buildings in the UK and in Ireland is often really primitive.

Even something simple like getting rid of "immersion" tanks would make sense. I am not aware of anywhere else in the world that heats water by storing it in a bare copper cylinder, often insolated by a badly fitted fibreglass "jacket" held on with tie strings.

Elsewhere in the world water heaters are usually highly insulated tanks that suffer from very very little heat loss. There's actually no reason for things like electric showers and instantaneous high wattage water heaters if this stuff is done right. You should be getting your hot water from solar and whatever fuel you are using to heat your radiators and storing it in a super efficiently insulated tank.

Classic systems in these islands basically blast heat into an "airing cupboard".

Britian and Ireland need to address the obvious before going to solutions like smart metering.

A major programme of retrofitting homes would be a less PR-sexy but far more impactful measure.

We've some degree of this going on in Ireland with grant aid and tax incentives to upgrade things but it really should be scaled up.

import/export meters and storage

Do the current specs for the smart meters incorporate export metering?

Having a national roll out that would improve the infrastructure to accommodate customers being able to more easily fit PV and storage in the home would make sense. It's the tea drinking that gets us in this country, specifically when Corrie has a break.

So why not have a small scale energy storage solution that covers that peak, but is charged throughout the day, same for electric showers, evening off the peaks in demand?

There also seems to be a complete lack of recognition that wind and solar require a similar build out of storage.

If smart meters were part of a wider co-ordinated programme that incorporated generation at the traditional plant level through to home generation, and co-ordinating a distribution network upgrade that acts as a market place to buy and sell energy, for individuals and companies to generate, store and consume, then it would make sense.

As is, the smart meter roll out just seems like a marketers/snoopers wet dream, with little to no benefits for the cost we've been asked to pay through our bills.

Refrigerator

17 billion would easily replace about 17 million 20+ year old refrigerators.

I suspect that would save significantly more electricity than "smart" meters ever will.

I think they have missed a trick here. A lot of people are complaining about not being able to get them due to poor network coverage. Well, would not smart meters in (nearly) every home be the perfect candidate for a mesh network? Then all you would need is one meter with coverage to provide network for an area? They already say that changes to your tariff may take 24hrs to reach your meter, so speed of connection is not an issue here.

I have been suing this sort of meter for at least a decade (networked meter that is) in the business I work at. It helps save a lot of money when it was rolled out as we could look at usage patterns and adjust. Of course, businesses saved most of the money from smoothing their usage. Businesses are being charged a "peak demand" fee. If it's higher than you need to are throwing money away, if you cross it you are hit by extra charges. Being able to reduce the peak and spread it out meant we could save on the fixed fee, ensure we did not cross the newer, lower threshold and still run in a very similar manner as before. Net effect was no real difference in total kWh, but lower bills.

"whether all locations will have the necessary wireless signal"

This may be an incentive for the government to give the mobile operators a well-deserved kick to improve their coverage.

And of course, if a Smart Meter can send a signal it will almost certainly be able to receive a signal, so we can look forward to phased power cuts when we don't pay our bills or the government finally decides not to build new power stations to keep the lights on...

The king's new clothes

What I love about the 21st Century is how we are always looking for a hi-tch solution to a lo-tech problem.

We are using too much power (or rather we cannot generate enough power to meet the demands that we have created with all our electric stuff.)

So how come every time I watch the news on BBC there are ranks of unused computers with their LED/LCD monitors glowing away using power to create heat to raise the temperature to require air-con to keep the temperature down. Seeing cities at night with millions of lights and computers and god knows what all churning away for nothing makes me boil - in a low energy way of course.

So what do we do - well it's obviously too hard for anyone who goes to work to actually switch off their computer or the lights so lets jump on consumers at home because they're an easy target.

Lets put in more computers and servers to run complicated smart meter systems with all the IT infrastructure and meetings and spreadsheets and reports and all the other crap that corporate mumbo-jumbo thrives on rather than actually face the facts.

If you eat too much you get fat - nothing to do with your genes or your bones - you're just a greedy slob.

If you consume more power than you can generate (oh and while you're doing it you can destroy in a few hundred years what nature took billions of years to produce (Go Mankind - yaaaaay) then the answer is to consume less.

If industry and businesses showed a willingness to reduce obvious excessive consumption at night and thereby set an example then maybe folks would get behind other methods of helping reduce consumption. However these days all we want is more gadgets, more machines, more 24/7/365 everything. Well, good luck with that. I'll be dead when the shit hits the fan and the climate goes into meltdown - literally. Many readers here and their children may not be so lucky - but then they'll have a app to tell them how hot it's going to be so they'll be happy - and they can read their smart meter whenever they want - it will help I'm sure.............

Conflict of signals

We had our smart meters installed last week. I did so because the old ones required me to become a contortionist to read them.

I noticed a problem with the home wifi almost immediately after the smart meter and in home display were operating. A quick google search confirms that the smart meters use the 2.4GHz Zigbee standard and will clash with home wifi because they use channels that overlap the popular home wifi channels. I have managed to change the channel my Access Point was using but I wonder how many others will be able to do so. Once the rollout reaches a critical mass and the general population start to report wifi problems the mainstream media will no doubt pick this up and the whole thing will then get suspended followed by a public enquiry and more money wasted.

Why they couldn't have chosen technology that wouldn't interfere is beyond me. Will it make me change my power usage? No. All lighting is either LED or CFL where used for long periods.

Missing the best bit...

The real price of electricity in the UK varies every 30 minutes, from (say) £15 per kWh at 5pm on a cold January work day, to pretty much nothing at 2am in August. Right now, almost everyone pays a flat rate of 12-15p/kWh, (which is about the right price), but no consumer can really reduce their bill by moving their consumption times (except through Economy 7, which is bad for most consumers).

I would like:

a. Smart meters to show the rough price per kWh we are using, and

b. Smart meters to record the half-hour consumption data so that consumers can be charged appropriately.

Thus, people who are financially stretched could save money, and it would be good for the planet too.

"Smart meters are being touted as a means of allowing consumers to switch providers"

You can already do that. It's quite simple.

"and help people to reduce their energy consumption"

The only way to reduce your energy consumption is to use less energy, no meter can help you do that any better than just looking at your bill.

"and switch their usage away from peak times"

What you mean those peak times when people are actually at home rather than at work?

Almost Compulsory

Once the rollout starts in earnest they will be pretty much compulsory. Unless you can prove with an 'engineer' visit that you can't get an adequate signal then you'll have to pay a surcharge.

Obviously it won't be framed like this but if you're not on a smart meter you won't get the 'discount'. You might also be charged for a third party to read the meter.

The only benefit to consumers would be to allow instant switching or the ability to 'top up' with energy from any supplier (allowing brokers to get bulk discounts for consumers). Granted it's complex but, as there is no advantage to the big 6 in doing this it will never happen.

Does the £17bn saving include the £12bn that this is costing? It's bullshit anyway 'cos the costs will be much higher and the savings minimal.

WTP

What's the point???

I am an engineer, I know how much energy everything I use consumes. I use what I need to use. Furthermore, every electricity user is paying via their energy bill for those who have smart meters fitted. I don't want to pay for other people to have them and I have no opt out.

Even for an idiot, just turning stuff off when you don't need it will do just as well.

An interconnected meter with variable energy cost is a different matter, i.e. your washing machine washes when energy cost is lowest, etc.

Finally, I have no mobile signal in my area. A centrally connected smart meter won't work. Why can't they all use PLC???