back to article Elon to dump Trump over climate bump

Elon Musk says he will cut ties with President Trump, should the US walk away from the Paris Climate Accord. The billionaire tech investor said Wednesday that if things go as rumored and the White House pulls out of the Paris Agreement, he will recuse himself from the President's Business Advisory Council. Musk broke the news …

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        1. Stoneshop

          Re: Dumping Paris is a good thing

          It gives China a free pass until 2030.

          Which, even now, they appear to be using only sparingly and reluctantly. Witness them boosting renewables like hell.

          China is finding it hard to attract the highly skilled people from other countries it still needs noting that those are rather turned off by the prospect of not being able to see across the street, and requiring breathing gear when venturing outside

          1. Fading
            Facepalm

            Re: Dumping Paris is a good thing

            China's renewables are not the success story they are being touted as. There is already over production in the energy sector in China (with more non-renewable generation on the way) so the entire "renewable" building plan is not a replacement of traditional energy production but an addition. So you can laud China's renewable boost if you want but it is doing f-all good for the planet.

          2. John Brown (no body) Silver badge

            Re: Dumping Paris is a good thing

            "the prospect of not being able to see across the street, and requiring breathing gear when venturing outside"

            Are you describing what China is trying to cure or what US cities will be like in 10 years time?

            Considering Trumps age, he ought to remember images of places like Pittsburgh from the 50's and 60's. It's not as if US cities full of pollution and death rates directly attributed to said pollution isn't historical fact.

            1. Anonymous Coward
              Anonymous Coward

              Re: Dumping Paris is a good thing

              Considering Trumps age, he ought to remember images of places like Pittsburgh from the 50's and 60's

              And why, pray, would he have paid any attention to them? The benefit of coming from a rich family is that in his life he'd never had to sully himself with reality. Even on his campaign the man remained inside his safe bubble - he was never interested in going near normal people unless it was for profit, a photo op or the sort of slimy praise he seems to crave. I'm not surprised they got upset by the term 'deplorables' - that cut a bit too close to the bone..

    1. phuzz Silver badge

      Re: Dumping Paris is a good thing

      A flawed, partial, solution is better than no solution at all. AKA "it's a start".

      1. Fading

        Re: Dumping Paris is a good thing

        No. An expensive partial solution that reduces the economies of the participants so that they are less able to provide assistance when the modeled disasters occur is not a solution - it is an additional problem.

    2. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: Dumping Paris is a good thing

      The Paris accord will do nothing for climate change.

      I disagree. Maybe it will not do something directly, but it has already driven cleaner policies in various countries. You are dealing with something of global scale, that's not going to happen overnight.

      That said, if the US pulls out I think we can safely consider the country to have a carbon deficit, and that will be running up as much as the national debt. Every time the US wants to sell ANYTHING to the rest of the world, that carbon deficit will generate extra costs as importing US goods (and, say, coal powered services if that myth ever came to be) will reduce a nation's available carbon credit.

      Their withdrawal from climate agreements will thus result in higher costs of export. Even services will be subject to that. Data centre in the US? Terribly sorry, you're welcome to offer it for free but here's our carbon exhaustion bill, ta very much.

      - a sort of tax on climate change denial, so to speak, which will not exactly help

    3. strum

      Re: Dumping Paris is a good thing

      >there is little wrong with Bjorn Lomborg's analysis

      Except that he's an economist, who knows fuck all about science.

      1. Fading

        Re: Dumping Paris is a good thing

        Peer reviewed and published (http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1111/1758-5899.12295/full) what more do you want?

        1. Kiwi
          Unhappy

          Re: Dumping Paris is a good thing

          Peer reviewed and published (http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1111/1758-5899.12295/full) what more do you want?

          Drooling idiots who don't have the brains to challenge stuff promoted as "science" that doesn't fit any known scientific method, fails whenever it's predictions are put to the test (looks outside door, still not beach-front property, still waiting for those massive sea-level rises we were told we'd have "within 15 years at most" in 1995 or so) - that's what they want.

          I'm guessing that intelligent people who observe what is going on around them, remember the "scientific predictions", see that they're NOT happening like predicted, and those who remember further back to warmer and colder times (oh sorry that's not climate that's just weather") and so on are exactly NOT what these people want.

          The more mindless fools they can get to follow their rubbish, the more they can rape the planet for their profits while keeping people under their thumb. Just look at the emotive language they use, the way they mock people who question their constant failures (no one can question their successes - they haven't had any yet!), and the biggest tell - their desire to actually criminalise people questioning their rubbish. They don't want intelligent people questioning their stuff, they want drooling idiots to mindlessly take whatever rubbish they spew.

          These people and their policies are doing massive damage to the planet (just look at the pollution and destruction of the environment that "wind farms" cause), and the sad thing is many generally intelligent and caring people have been sucked in and are promoting the destruction of the very thing they want to protect!

  1. iOS6 user

    That is good change. He will have more time for SpaceX.

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      I still read that as SpaceSex. I need to get out more :).

  2. Elfo74

    Climate explained (by americans, for americans)

    Even you guys should grasp this, as you read a tech site like El Reg... it has pictures in it...

    https://xkcd.com/1732/

    1. Fading
      Trollface

      Re: Climate explained (by americans, for americans)

      I'll see your xkcd and raise you a Douglas Adams'

      http://dilbert.com/strip/2017-05-14

      1. hplasm
        Headmaster

        Re: Climate explained (by americans, for americans)

        "I'll see your xkcd and raise you a Douglas Adams'"

        Eek! Scott Adams has stolen his towel!

        1. Fading
          Facepalm

          Re: Climate explained (by americans, for americans)

          Too many Adamses not enough time to edit :)

  3. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    In a Nut Shell

    If Trump withdraws the US from the Paris Agreement, Musk will withdraw from Trump.

    If Musk withdraws from Trump, Trump will go on Twitter and call Musk names.

    1. bombastic bob Silver badge
      Trollface

      Re: In a Nut Shell

      "If Musk withdraws from Trump, Trump will go on Twitter and call Musk names."

      heh. I hope so!

  4. allthecoolshortnamesweretaken

    Trump's secret Plan B, just in case global warming isn't just a hoax after all:

    Build the wall at the Mexican border. Make it really tall. Build another wall like it at the Canadian border. Build two more really tall walls on the east coast and on the west coast. Put a huge roof on the walls. Have some big-ass ACs installed. Problem solved!

    1. Mike 125

      The British Official Monster Raving Loony party is already fully across the AC issue. Manifesto proposal number 1. Cool on the outside:

      To combat global warming and climate change all buildings should be fitted with air conditioning units on the outside.

  5. Mike 125

    Lest we forget. (Ta Graun.)

    "Twenty-two senators wrote a letter to the president when he was said to be on the fence about backing out. They received more than $10m from oil, gas and coal companies the past three election cycles"

    James Inhofe, Oklahoma

    Oil & gas: $465,950

    Coal: $63,600

    Total: $529,550

    John Barrasso, Wyoming

    Oil & gas: $458,466

    Coal: $127,356

    Total: $585,822

    Mitch McConnell, Kentucky

    Oil & gas: $1,180,384

    Coal: $361,700

    Total: $1,542,084

    John Cornyn, Texas

    Oil & gas: $1,101,456

    Coal: $33,050

    Total: $1,134,506

    Roy Blunt, Missouri

    Oil & gas: $353,864

    Coal: $96,000

    Total: $449,864

    Roger Wicker, Mississippi

    Oil & gas: $198,816

    Coal: $25,376

    Total: $224,192

    Michael Enzi, Wyoming

    Oil & gas: $211,083

    Coal: $63,300

    Total: $274,383

    Mike Crapo, Idaho

    Oil & gas: $110,250

    Coal: $26,756

    Total: $137,006

    Jim Risch, Idaho

    Oil & gas: $123,850

    Coal: $25,680

    Total: $149,530

    Thad Cochran, Mississippi

    Oil & gas: $276,905

    Coal: $15,000

    Total: $291,905

    Mike Rounds, South Dakota

    Oil & gas: $201,900

    Coal: none

    Total: $201,900

    Rand Paul, Kentucky

    Oil & gas: $170,215

    Coal: $82,571

    Total: $252,786

    John Boozman, Arkansas

    Oil & gas: $147,930

    Coal: $2,000

    Total: $149,930

    Richard Shelby, Alabama

    Oil & gas: $60,150

    Coal: $2,500

    Total: $62,650

    Luther Strange, Alabama

    (Appointed in 2017, running in 2017 special election)

    Total: NA

    Orrin Hatch, Utah

    Oil & gas: $446,250

    Coal: $25,000

    Total: $471,250

    Mike Lee, Utah

    Oil & gas: $231,520

    Coal: $21,895

    Total: $253,415

    Ted Cruz, Texas

    Oil & gas: $2,465,910

    Coal: $103,900

    Total: $2,569,810

    David Perdue, Georgia

    Oil & gas: $184,250

    Coal: $0

    Total: $184,250

    Thom Tillis, North Carolina

    Oil & gas: $263,400

    Coal: $0

    Total: $263,400

    Tim Scott, South Carolina

    Oil & gas: $490,076

    Coal: $58,200

    Total: $548,276

    Pat Roberts, Kansas

    Oil & gas: $388,950

    Coal: $28,825

    Total: $417,775

    Sum total for all 22 Republican signatories: $10,694,284

    1. John Brown (no body) Silver badge
      Thumb Up

      Re: Lest we forget. (Ta Graun.)

      "Luther Strange"

      Hopefully related to Doctor rather than Lex!

      On a slightly more serious note, are they not all coal and oil states anyway, so no real surprise that each of them got contributions from the big, rich industries in their home states.

  6. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    so what?

    Elon's money is in clean energy so who really cares if he quits? Just shows he's a quitter. As for Trump. He's a half baked scumbag who lied to the people who supported him. Democrats lie, steal freedoms and make people scared to voice their opinions lest they be labelled politically incorrect. Republicans lie, steal freedoms and fill the prisons with struggling parents who don't fit their ideals. Makes a person feel empathy towards North Korea.

  7. iRadiate

    Curious

    How much impact on the environment does each of Musks rocket launches have?

    Genuine question. Not trying to make a point, just curious.

    1. spacecadet66

      Re: Curious

      This professor at U Washington did some back-of-the-envelope numbers and came up with a figure of 640 metric tons CO2e per launch, of which about 5/6 is actual emissions and the bulk of the rest is the electricity needed to produce LOX.

      http://faculty.washington.edu/dwhm/2016/03/18/how-many-teslas-does-it-take-to-make-up-for-a-spacex-launch/

  8. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    A lot of fuss over nothing

    If it gets a bit warmer here's my plan:

    1. Water the garden more regularly. Fill the pond at night. Perhaps fit a permanent irrigation system.

    2. Wear less in bed, leave the windows open at night.

    3. Open the sunroof on my cars. Or put the top down. Or drive fast to get the breeze.

    4. Short-sleeved shirts. Shorts. Sandals.

    5. Buy a bigger fridge to hold my bottled water.

    6. Put more things in standby when I go to bed (I normally just leave the music playing all over the house).

    7. Turn the aga down a bit (as long as the dogs aren't sleeping in front of it).

    8. Fly somewhere cooler for the weekends.

    See? Not that difficult. I don't need a symposium to come up with some very concrete actions.

    1. John Brown (no body) Silver badge
      Coat

      Re: A lot of fuss over nothing

      "I don't need a symposium to come up with some very concrete actions."

      But if you had held a symposium, someone would have pointed out the vast amounts of CO2 generated while taking all those concrete actions!

      (Coat, even though I don't really need one today)

      1. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        Re: A lot of fuss over nothing

        someone would have pointed out the vast amounts of CO2 - seriously, my friend, I generate more CO2 from pouring my lunchtime G&T at work.

      2. Kiwi

        Re: A lot of fuss over nothing

        But if you had held a symposium, someone would have pointed out the vast amounts of CO2 generated while taking all those concrete actions!

        Conveniently failing to point out the CO2 involved in taking all those people from their homelands to the meeting place when they could, if they really cared about the environment, leave the private jets (sometimes 2 or 3 used per "leader" travelling, with all their security staff etc, when they could actually make use of available videoconferencing technology and not even leave the comforts of their own home

    2. MachDiamond Silver badge

      Re: A lot of fuss over nothing

      Yes, but you need the symposium to require that the US pay it.

  9. smartypants

    "By trying to elevate his own TV ratings through 'America First' ideology, he is breaking our alliances and global leadership"

    That sounds familiar. Oh yes! "Red, White and Blue Brexit!"

  10. Phukov Andigh Bronze badge

    simple economics

    1) he can then be totally allied with the Party he has the most financial support for.

    2) he makes more money as government forces subsidies for products that are not in demand, both thru direct funding like CARB's own internal carbon credit scheme, and indirectly thru products that get purchased because the buyers are getting kickbacks.

    Products like silly "solar tiles" won't compete without a government paying the difference. It's easier to justify that wealth transfer by claiming it's due to "international pressure".

    Way I see it, there are a number of nations who signed Kyoto and Paris but not only failed to reach their promised goals, but had no intention of ever doing so. the accord has no power or enforcement arm, and having nations signing on and sticking around who are simply giving lip service, weakens what value the whole accord held in the first place.

    Pretty much, now, the Paris accord is international "greenwashing" with but a minority of excellent examples of both intent AND action.

    Hell, future accords should be like an Exclusive Club. No membership unless you *already* meet the goals. Otherwise, out you go. Drop below a threshold, out you go. Want a piece of the worldwide renewables market? Better watch your emissions!

    1. MachDiamond Silver badge

      Re: simple economics

      I'm still trying how to connect a government's promise to adhere to one of these green fests and what people in the country are just going to continue doing like they always have. All it really means for the hoi polloi is higher prices. There doesn't ever seem to be an option to do something a different way for the same old price.

      Ditch your 5 year old car and purchase a new eco-shoebox at 3x the price? Fit a new, more efficient furnace in place of one that works perfectly fine? You know the new one's going to take 10 years to make up the difference except it's a raging hunk of poo that isn't going to last that long. The same advertising was used to get people to upgrade their fridge even if their old one kept things cold just fine. If you don't open the door every 15 minutes, it doesn't take all that much power and even if a new model only used 50% as much power, the pennies it saves doesn't soften the purchase cost at all.

  11. Mark 85

    Musk should stay...

    There should always be at least one voice of dissent so that the advisors aren't all "yes-men".

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: Musk should stay...

      There should always be at least one voice of dissent so that the advisors aren't all "yes-men".

      That's exactly why he is leaving. Being the lone voice of reason in a room full of yes-men gets frustrating really quickly because you will (a) always be outvoted and (b) be abused as the token environmentalist to point at when people complain the game is rigged and biased.

      Musk has at least tried, but he's too smart to be used as a patsy. Hence him bailing now.

  12. A_Melbourne

    Good. Musk is one of those trying to profit from the AGW scam. His companies are bleeding cash on a massive scale and received $5bn in direct subsidies from Obama. More in indirect subsidies from the certificates that he sells to other ICE car makers. This guy is terribly overrated by those under 30 - and with no hard science qualifications.

    30 New (2017) Scientific Papers Crush The Hockey Stick Graph And ‘Global’-Scale Warming Claims

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      This guy is terribly overrated by those under 30 - and with no hard science qualifications.

      Might be, but he did pretty much restart the electric car revolution after it had almost died thanks to the Prius which only appealed to the socks and sandals brigade. Ditto for the space industry - he's the first to arrive at reliable recyclable first stages.

      I thus have to cut him quite a bit of slack. The man's not perfect but he does create things, as opposed to that orange disaster in Washington whose only mo is chaos and destruction and who will allow the Russians to cause more harm to the US in the next few years than they managed over the last decade if he isn't stopped.

  13. herman

    Exit will Save 3 billion dollars

    I think Donald is right though. He will save 3 billion, which could be much better spent than with lining the pockets of some UN officials in the so called green fund. Of course all the pigs at the trough are crying a river, but be fooled that the Paris thing had anything to do with climate. It is all about lining pockets with US and other idiot gov money.

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: Exit will Save 3 billion dollars

      I think Donald is right though. He will save 3 billion, which could be much better spent than with lining the pockets of some UN officials in the so called green fund

      If your argument is that it's better not to do something than run a potential risk that someone sticks money in their pockets, I assume you're not paying taxes either? After all, there are many feeding from that trough who really shouldn't be allowed near tax revenue.

  14. MachDiamond Silver badge

    taking my ball and going home, so there.

    The Paris Accord is something of a raw deal for the US and President Trump leaving the table may be in the best interest of the US. I often fall fast asleep trying to read through crap like that.

    If Elon wants to exclude himself from being in a position to possibly influence the President, well…. that's up to him, but it's better to be in on the meetings at the top rather than holding up a sign and marching around outside yelling out pithy slogans.

    In just the last couple of years it has become financially advantageous for many to install solar on a home and purchase an electric car that will suffice for 95%+ of ones transportation needs and it keeps getting better. The air quality in many metropolitan areas is much better than it was in the 1970's (China excluded). In another 10 years it could be possible to see most homes able to generate a bulk of their own electricity from the roof in areas where it isn't against a city ordinance. Don't frown. The city I live in REQUIRES that every home is connected to the grid. Some regions it's illegal to collect rainwater for domestic use as it officially belongs to somebody else. Go ahead and cry.

    Elon talks a lot but he doesn't operate any company that earns a profit. The Tesla Model 3 better earn the company loads of cash or he may lose access to other people's money to keep the doors open and will have to resort once again to asking friends for some dosh to pay his electric bill and feed the kiddies. Elon's wealth is mostly on "paper" and that paper is nearly all with Tesla and SpaceX. If either company fails, the financial lash up between them may drag the other down.

  15. MachDiamond Silver badge

    Pardon me while a have a nice "black" day. I'm going to spend a few hours in the back seat of a fighter jet flying around. The owner asked me if I wanted a ride….. F*&K yea and damn the hippies.

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