back to article 'Windows 10 nagware: You can't click X. Make a date OR ELSE'

According to a complaint from a reader, Microsoft’s Windows 10 nagware campaign has entered a new phase, with options to evade or escape an upgrade vanishing. Recently, Microsoft’s policy had been to throw up a dialogue box asking you whether you wanted to install Windows 10. If you clicked the red “X” to close the box – the …

COMMENTS

This topic is closed for new posts.

Page:

  1. jonathan1

    Windows 10 Pondering

    This a comment and question for my fellow Commentards... Warning rambling ahead...

    Why the windows 10 update annoys...

    Putting Mac's to one side for the moment, with PCs we buy the hardware. Now, the hardware may come with a pre-installed OS or not. We have the option of using that OS or replacing it if we choose.

    This is unlike most electronic products we buy where the software and hardware come hand in hand. E.g. set top boxes, we don't expect Pace to let us put other brand firmware on the device.

    MS are trying to take ownership of hardware that isn't theirs. I haven't bought a "Microsoft PC", I bought a PC that I chose to run Windows on unlike say an Xbox One where you've bought a product and bought into an ecosystem.

    Which leads me to my other main grievance. Forcing an ecosystem upon us. Its not about buying an operating system anymore, its about my data being the resellable product to an ever increasingly data hungry marketing machine. I already have that with Google.

    How do you guys feel about it?

    1. Sir Runcible Spoon
      Coat

      Re: Windows 10 Pondering

      "How do you guys feel about it?"

      I'm gonna make a guess here and say that I reckon most people are a bit put out.

      1. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        Re: Windows 10 Pondering

        I don't think that "miffed" would be overstating things.

      2. jonathan1
        Happy

        Re: Windows 10 Pondering

        Haha yeah, I could have worded the question better. I love you guys.

    2. Annihilator

      Re: Windows 10 Pondering

      "I bought a PC that I chose to run Windows on ... How do you guys feel about it?"

      I feel like I'll "choose" to run something else on it in the future.

      I didn't realise when MS said last month that "the nagware will go away from July", that they meant "we'll have nuked all Win 7/8 installations so won't need it anymore"

    3. Corporate Scum
      Windows

      Re: Windows 10 Pondering

      I follow your line of thinking for the pc/set top box/IoC device, but I think you have the issue reversed. We need to stop treating things that are really computers with software and firmware as if they are not exactly that. It shouldn't matter if it's a tablet, phone, desktop, or CCTV camera, you should be able to enable a root/superuser account and push updates to it. You own the hardware.

      IM(Not really all that)HO the vendors need to: 1) provide that access, 2) timely patches for a reasonable support window, 3) either the ability to take the device offline, or open up the platform drivers and let the community manage patching it 4) load alternate firmware/software 5) Control deployment of updates that may introduce a breaking change.

      BTW, as a bonus to anyone who made it this far, you still get one last chance to avert the install by declining the license clickware, if you decline it it must abort, and even the M$ marketing trolls won't risk the fury of the fiends in M$ legal by voiding the EULA.

      1. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        Re: Windows 10 Pondering

        "BTW, as a bonus to anyone who made it this far, you still get one last chance to avert the install by declining the license clickware, if you decline it it must abort, and even the M$ marketing trolls won't risk the fury of the fiends in M$ legal by voiding the EULA."

        They'll fix that at the end of June. They'll make it "shrinkwrap"-style and make it accept by default by simple fact the software is being installed (much like you voided a refund by opening the package). And if the law gets in the way, they've probably got some cartel stewing to get the laws changed.

        1. SImon Hobson Bronze badge

          Re: Windows 10 Pondering

          > They'll make it "shrinkwrap"-style and make it accept by default by simple fact the software is being installed (much like you voided a refund by opening the package).

          Not even MS will try that, because they know already that's it's illegal AND they have already been smacked down for it. The vendor you purchased the software from CANNOT refuse a refund because you've opened the shrinkwrap UNLESS the full (and complete, and readable) T&Cs are printed so they can be seen before opening it. That's basic law, not just in the UK but in the US and many other jurisdictions as well - you CANNOT enforce a contract where one side did not know the terms before accepting it.

          That's why these click-thorugh agreements contain guff about "if you don't accept these terms ....." - they have to or the contract is void by law in many jurisdictions.

          So if they didn't present an agreement, with the option to decline, then any contract they may wish to enforce on the upgraded software is void. They are stuffed, and their spywaretelemetry is also explicitly illegal in the UK as you won't have consented to it.

          This is fairly basic law - pity so many consumers are just so completely ignorant of their rights.

          1. Charles 9

            Re: Windows 10 Pondering

            That was THEN. This time Microsoft probably has better lawyers. AND the NSA on their side.

    4. Ken Hagan Gold badge

      Re: Windows 10 Pondering

      You still own the hardware. If Windows chooses to commit suicide, you still have the hardware and are free to install the OS of your choice. Presumably you have backups of all the data on the system that you consider important, and the installation CDs for all the applications to re-install on the new OS. (No, I'm not trying to be smug here. I know most people don't. I'm just trotting out a line of argument that Microsoft probably would use if this came to court. You *can* mitigate the cost by keeping backups, so the fact that you haven't done so shouldn't entitle you to compensation over and above the cost of setting up the machine again.)

      I think what gets people's goat is that Windows 7 (or 8.x) doesn't need to commit suicide. It was working fine and re-installing everything just because Microsoft have made changes that you did not authorise (and in many cases explicitly refused) feels like getting hacked, by Microsoft. It kinda makes you want to chuck a brick through *their* windows.

      1. anonymous boring coward Silver badge

        Re: Windows 10 Pondering

        "You still own the hardware"

        True, but it is also a fact that many have invested in Windows applications. So when MS deliberately infects Windows 7 with telemetry, they also destroy a lot of investments for a lot of people.

      2. Annihilator

        Re: Windows 10 Pondering

        "You still own the hardware. If Windows chooses to commit suicide, you still have the hardware and are free to install the OS of your choice"

        I also own the software, or at the very least, a licence to use the software - including support until 2020. At this point, MS are effectively revoking the Windows 7 licence and replacing it with a Windows 10 licence.

      3. energystar
        Windows

        Re: Windows 10 Pondering

        "You still own the hardware. If Windows chooses to commit suicide, you still have the hardware and are free to install the OS of your choice. "

        Yea, you 'own' the hardware. But permission to use it is 'endowed' by the UEFI. Wish you good will from the [REAL] UEFI owners. As of today they authorize 'COMPATIBLE' OS to boot.

    5. a_yank_lurker

      Re: Windows 10 Pondering

      My solution is build my own and install Linux or buy and do complete wipe and Linux install (laptops).

    6. MrTuK
      WTF?

      Re: Windows 10 Pondering

      Which leads me to my other main grievance. Forcing an ecosystem upon us. Its not about buying an operating system anymore, its about my data being the resellable product to an ever increasingly data hungry marketing machine. I already have that with Google.

      How do you guys feel about it?

      Its funny you should mention this, I totally accept whatever google/Samsung do to my phone and Tablet although it does piss me off that apps keep sucking me dry, I mean my battery so I run Battery Doctor app every time I want to put my phone in my pocket or hibernate the tablet these are mostly built in bloatware that cannot be uninstalled. But due to privacy an security issues I would never put credit card details or use cloud or even browse the internet on them, just skype, fb and whatsapp and phone calls and texts on the phone.

      But a PC is supposed to be secure and if using a good anti-virus software and security updates supplied from MS up until Win 7 were fine - maybe !

      With the debacle that MS has been doing since Win 8.0, I personally have lost all faith in MS and even though I personally tried Win 10 (for 2 and a half months) the day it was released and hated the look and feel of it as well as the security nightmare with not being able to block telemetry totally and select updates that you want or do not want unless maybe you are using the Enterprise edition really grated with me as a long time MS Windows user (Since Win 3.1).

      People keep mentioning programs that can do this and that to sort stuff out in Win 10, but I know MS and there way is the only way (Right or wrongly) in their opinion. So it won't be long before it starts to mark anything it disagree's with as either a virus or malware and then will block/un-install/un-modify said modifications that it deems are not in it best interest - Now MS Window fanboys will jump up in arms and say nay, you malign such a wonderful trustworthy company and I say none are so blind as those that refuse to see !

      MS wanted to force all software through it's holy grail the Windows store (charge 20% royalty/fees for the privilege) and companies like Valve's Steam saw their business model coming to an end thats why they started the Linux Steam box etc and so have been actively pushing the Vulkan API rather than DX12 as its totally OS agnostic which is great for gamers using all platforms and their business model as well.

      Well I have been using Linux Mint and now Ubuntu since Feb this year and can no only do everything that I could in Windows but my laptop an i7 CPU really purrs along now, so much more efficient and rock solid stable, i just reboot it once a week just for the hell of it as the updates haven't so far required a reboot !

      I am just wondering if all Governments have access to Win 10 telemetry data and that is why there have been no action from them - I don't really want to sound like a conspiracy psycho but there certainly seems to be enough evidence for them to at least say something.

      Another point is that I cannot imagine any non-US corporation that deals with sensitive data go anywhere near Win 10, just in case so stupid mistake happens from MS's point of view and their data then goes over to good ol' U S of A servers for god knows what foreign competitor to look at !

      Just my 2 pence worth !

  2. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    can Never10 really work, tho?

    n00b here. I understand the idea of Never10 setting things like Registry entries to stop Windows Update downloading this particular (cough) "update". But if Microsoft want to be evil, can they not just get you to download a new update of Windows Update itself, one which Microsoft had written to ignore any such Registry entries, so that this new version of Windows Update would download the W10 "update" anyway?

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: can Never10 really work, tho?

      It's an arms race. If MS introduce more arsehattery, Steve Gibson will rewrite the program to counter it. So you wait a bit for an update then run it again. And there's GWX too (http://ultimateoutsider.com/downloads/)

      Microsoft have promised to stop pestering people to upgrade by the end of July, so in theory you only have to hold out that long, if they are to be believed.

    2. Candy

      Re: can Never10 really work, tho?

      Never10 implements MSs own KB to disable the nagware. It's the KB that is issued to enterprise customers. These guys are the goose a-laying golden eggs so MS is unlikely to crater them.

      Normally, I'm an unashamed MS apologist but this latest twist is too much to find an excuse for. W10 is a great product but these practices are appalling.

      1. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        Re: can Never10 really work, tho?

        "Never10 implements MSs own KB to disable the nagware. It's the KB that is issued to enterprise customers. These guys are the goose a-laying golden eggs so MS is unlikely to crater them."

        Easy counter. Compare the KB to the version which Microsoft can easily glean. If they find an Enterprise KB in a Home installation, they'll know something's fishy. The ultimate move will be a zero-day guaranteed install. They introduce a new KB, rated Critical because it actually does come with a critical patch to a real zero-day already in the wild (so blocking it means you risk getting pwned), but the patch also locks down any and all attempts to block the installation. They can do it two ways: by altering the boot sequence (something usually too touchy to fiddle with unless you're Microsoft) or by acting like Wheatley and, "Surprise! We're doing it now!" meaning there's no time to undo it once it's acquired.

      2. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        Re: can Never10 really work, tho?

        ahhhh, tvm @Candy, from A. N00b.

      3. MrTuK
        Flame

        Re: can Never10 really work, tho?

        Never10 implements MSs own KB to disable the nagware. It's the KB that is issued to enterprise customers. These guys are the goose a-laying golden eggs so MS is unlikely to crater them.

        Sorry to say MS has already screwed them many times, I have a friend who works for a big company the name which I cannot divulge (otherwise I won't get anymore info) but suffice to say they have done updates that have screwed them several times and have had to roll back several thousand PC's while MS fix the issue and sometimes even after they supply a new KB its screws them again, luckily they roll out updates carefully after testing but still some of them manage to not cause an issue for a few days to a few weeks later which means more of them need to be rolled back the longer the time frame takes to expose the issue !

        But for corporate business this is just part of daily life with MS so are actually more forgiving although the bigger they are they are likely to demand compensation and get it as they can say we are seriously looking Linux rather than Windows as a future desktop etc whereas as home users we are just one individual and the loss of revenue is very small compared to losing a corporate account and knowing that the Linux camp would use this as leverage to other corporate businesses !

        1. Anonymous Coward
          Anonymous Coward

          Re: can Never10 really work, tho?

          as home users we are just one individual and the loss of revenue is very small compared to losing a corporate account

          I wouldn't be too sure about that. The people who they're pissing off are the ones who do support for others. When I go, for example, I'm taking 10 or so people with me and moreover won't be doing support for W10 because I simply can't be arsed with the learning curve. Further, everyone who has had their machine bricked, or who has had their company lose a day or more of work, or who has had the update forced on them at an inconvenient time is going to quite possibly become an evangelist for an opposing team (mac, linux, whatever).

          Massively pissing off a huge group of nerds is really not a wise thing to do. Considered individually, it might not look like too much of a problem, but the knock-on effects may be quite a lot more serious than Microsoft seem to currently realise.

          1. Charles 9

            Re: can Never10 really work, tho?

            Until they realize all their software is Windows-only with no substitutes (particularly games). What then?

  3. Carl D

    Where are these pop-ups coming from?

    Are these stupid nags coming from KB3035583 (which I've hidden for what seems like the hundredth time a few days back) or a combination of that plus KB2952664 (which was up to something like Revision 20 just recently) and maybe a few other W10 related 'updates' for W7?

    Just wondering because I've never seen any of them with my Windows 7 Professional 64 bit. Mind you, I only have security updates and very few 'optional/recommended' ones installed after Service Pack 1.

    Of course, I don't have any of the 'back ported to W7' telemetry or W10 'nag' updates installed and I have used Never10 and Spybot Anti-Beacon as well just for good measure.

    Doesn't matter too much to me anyway - thank goodness for a Linux Mint dual boot. Windows 7 can now stay offline until the 'All Clear' siren sounds at the end of July (hopefully).

  4. TVU Silver badge

    Re: Fit for purpose

    "No, jumping to Linux is not on because of old dogs and new tricks, my folks (in their 60's) have already begun that transition - one on fedora, and the other ChromeOS (so pretty close). But to be blunt - when your at the stage that basic self care requires professional help, dealing with a new UI to stay in contact with your family is really not on the list of things to do. (shame as if I'd pushed em over 10 years ago then they could prob. still be on Gnome2 with a rolling release and be perfectly happy)"

    However, there are some Linux distributions, such as Linux Mint Mate, Linux Mint Cinnamon and Zorin, that are particular Windows-like so that the learning curve is not all that great. Indeed, I've come across some smaller businesses which have made that transition to those particular distributions because of the Microsoft licensing costs for multiple copies of their Enterprise edition software and because of concerns over malware.

    1. intlabs

      Re: Fit for purpose

      Gotta love the reg Mint fettish :) (Im not opposed but why mention the Mint flavour of Mate (which is Gnome2 continued...) or Cinnamon, Zorin is however getting pretty close to a drop-in replacement. Maybe this cluterfuck of badwill that MS seems to be trying to generate will prompt more people to look into ReactOS (https://www.reactos.org), I've played with the last release a bit and it's fast approaching usable. Unfortunately the issue in this case is not the slope of the learning curve, but the very existence of a learning curve at all...

      1. a_yank_lurker

        Re: Fit for purpose

        The Mint fetish is based on real experience with Cinnamon not Mate. It is similar enough to Winbloat that many users can easily switch. Some of the others mentioned are also very close to Winbloat 7 look and feel that transition is relatively easy.

  5. AegisPrime
    WTF?

    Roll on 2020

    I gave Windows 10 a fair shake whilst it was in beta and after its release and I've come to the conclusion that other than the (crippled) start menu and DX12 it simply doesn't offer anything compelling over Win 8.1 so that's where I'll be staying until 2020 - after that? Who knows - if MS have clued up to user privacy being a big deal and they put genuine effort into making a secure OS (like Apple have been doing with iOS) then maybe I'll 'upgrade' to whatever they're selling then.

    If not it'll probably be a flavour of Linux - not that I want to - I'm pretty happy with 8.1 and all my applications and games but Win 10 is a course change I'm not willing to follow and if I have to make changes and/or sacrifices to switch then I will. I built this PC - Windows is just a guest on it.

    1. This post has been deleted by its author

      1. anonymous boring coward Silver badge

        Re: Roll on 2020

        "If they are not developing/enhancing for Windows 7 then why install telemetry for the OS ?"

        Probably a rethorical question?

        But for the record: they obviously need to dirty Windows 7 enough to make it meaningless to stay with it.

    2. Dadmin

      Re: Roll on 2020

      You can have your cake and eat it too! Just install a virtualization solution, I like VirtualBox, and then get a cool helper tool like Vagrant(vagrantup.com, ya'll), and prop up as many virtual Windows or other OSes as you please! There's a LOT going on outside of the Windows world, some crossover stuff to be sure, but the bulk of new and interesting solutions are not coming from Redmond. Check out W10 in a few months, when it's safe, and in the meantime get cracking on some new skills in the form of some virtual linux and other containery goodness.

      I came to bury Windows, not to praise linux distros! I feel for all of the Windows-Only folks who have to live with this mess. Just a really awful situation for what should be a happy new shiny thing.

      1. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        Re: Roll on 2020

        The funny thing is that I recon the next version of Windows may be the one that actually delivers. "Containery goodness" you say? Having played with the Ubuntu compatibility layer, and docker on windows - I think the distro wars are finally about to be put to bed. MS is trying to convert to a semi-rolling release without fully working it out, once they fully start copying RedHat 1:1 then things get interesting: Windows Rawhide for the consumers and Enterprise Windows for the corporates. The benchmarks so far show that once they have sorted out the file-system overhead that Windows Server is more than competitive for Linux workloads (at least for synthetic benchmarks). It makes perfect sense for them, they are already pushing out Linux based appliances for networking, and means that they just need to produce/port a management layer over whatever they need. As much as people on her would love for Linux based systems to "win" i can assure you that market movement is primarily based on the quality of lunch your sales rep buys you. 2017 the year Linux *containers* hit the consumer space, doubt the kernel will.

    3. Updraft102

      Re: Roll on 2020

      You're good until 2023 with 8.1.

  6. anonymous boring coward Silver badge

    What TF is wrong with you Microsoft?

    MS, go seek some psychological help, will you? And soon.

  7. homerjsimpson
    WTF?

    speechless....

    Just what the hell is going on? This can't be real?

    Just WTF...

    Seriously, Microsoft.... W. T. F.

  8. Someone Else Silver badge
    Go

    Hmmmm...

    My tried-n-true XP installation is looking better all the time...

  9. Winkypop Silver badge
    Coat

    On holidays for 6 weeks

    Probably come home to find Win 10.

    The MS wonks will have accessed the house and let the update thru.

    Bastards!

    Coat, because it's freezing here in the UK! -->

  10. Ramon Zarat
    Flame

    Crossing the lines, Orwellian style.

    This is beyond insane! How can this be even legal??? M$ just committed corporate suicide with this over the top desperate move by going directly against the specific will of their own customers NOT to upgrade! This is pure dictatorship on a level never seen before for a corporation!

    1. Charles 9

      Re: Crossing the lines, Orwellian style.

      So what are you going to do? Lots of software is Windows-only with no substitutes, lots of hardware only has Windows drivers and can't be virtualized due to them being too obscure, and WINE still isn't ready for prime time. Not even Steam can get half their library (including many headliners) to their SteamOS.

      1. illiad

        Re: Crossing the lines, Orwellian style.

        I'm sure that is all still win 7 or server 2012 or newer (that has had metro for a long time...)

      2. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        Re: Crossing the lines, Orwellian style.

        lots of hardware only has Windows drivers and can't be virtualized due to them being too obscure

        You ain't gonna see those run on Win10 though.

      3. MrTuK

        Re: Crossing the lines, Orwellian style.

        Not even Steam can get half their library (including many headliners) to their SteamOS.

        Be patient my son, be patient - Vulkan is arriving and it is the only logical API to use for game devs of the future !

        As you know games takes 1+ year to develop and soon we will see the power of Vulkan on Linux and then maybe your tune will change. Nvidia Vulkan drivers are now at V1.0.8.

        I am impatient too but sadly we can only wait and wait.

        Mind you COH2 works fine and so does War Thunder on Linux via Steam!

        1. Charles 9

          Re: Crossing the lines, Orwellian style.

          You still gotta get the developers on board, and there are plenty (like Bethesda--Fallout 4) that have sworn off Linux development as too complicated: mostly due to lack of uniformity.

  11. Carl D

    1. The fact that not one government entity on the entire planet has lifted a finger (so far) to protect people from this garbage suggests to me that they're all in cahoots with MS. Money talks and all that.

    2. Surely governments using Windows 7 or (God forbid) 8.1 at all levels worldwide must be affected by this as well as ordinary people and businesses? If not, then goto1.

    3. Since nothing is being done to stop them, MS just keep 'pushing the envelope' further and further. They're long overdue to be regulated by the US Government. After a massive fine and the sacking of Nutella (sic) and his cohorts, of course.

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      "They're long overdue to be regulated by the US Government. "

      Ahem. See #2. Microsoft is probably IN BED by the US government. Their telemetry is likely being fast-tracked to the NSA data center/quantum decrypter in Utah, so they're actively motivated NOT to interfere with Microsoft. And combined (as well as combined with their software domination), anyone else who tried to shirk away is liable to find the going very uncomfortable.

    2. fidodogbreath

      Surely governments using Windows 7 or (God forbid) 8.1 at all levels worldwide must be affected by this

      No, probably not. The Enterprise version of Windows does not qualify for the free Win10 "upgrade." Also, admins can control the updates to Pro versions that are joined to a domain, so they can block the infamous KB3035583 GWX malware at the LAN level.

      1. John Brown (no body) Silver badge

        "No, probably not. The Enterprise version of Windows does not qualify for the free Win10 "upgrade." Also, admins can control the updates to Pro versions that are joined to a domain, so they can block the infamous KB3035583 GWX malware at the LAN level."

        "Yet....."

        1. fidodogbreath

          "Yet....."

          Resistance is futile. We will all be decimated.

  12. NanoMeter

    Must have done something right

    I haven't gotten that nagging screen yet.

    I have purposely screened every update list for Win 10 upgrade-updates.

    I have decided to use Win 7 for a few more years on my desktop PC. I've updated my portable many months ago to Win 10, just to see what it's like. I use my portable only a few days every month and can live with it.

    1. Updraft102

      Re: Must have done something right

      I've screened all the updates for 7 as well. Last week or so, KB3035583 showed up as "Important," pre-selected for installation on one of my PCs. Needless to say, it was promptly returned to "hidden" status, but I was a bit chagrined that the GWX adware would be set as Important.

Page:

This topic is closed for new posts.

Other stories you might like