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Talking about "no idea"
(Preamble: if you read nothing else in this post, do yourself a favour and take a gander at www.theboxotruth.com - where they say enough talk, let's shoot some rounds into some things and see what REALLY happens)
I've resisted respoding - but alas, can no more.
@ AC Friday 25th September 2009 19:52 GMT :
Your comment really does read like you are reporting 3rd (4th?) hand. I wonder where your learned expertise is from? Care to share how many pistols - 45 or otherwise - you own or have issued? Ever? Real ones, I mean. And no reading about them or playing video games or talking crap at the pub about them doesn't count.
There's been a lot of 45 vs 9 religious argument here - and it's often the case. There's been one or two refreshing items of fact and even references and quotations.
The point is that you can't compare 45 and 9 generically.
Take my carry round, the 9mm 127gr Winchester Ranger SXT +P+. Formerly the Black Talon, with one or two fairly accurate nicknames. Yes, I did say *my* carry round. I've read, and discussed, but I've also shot, trained, and these are loaded in each of my 9mm pistols.
Here's a bit of a discussion on what's special about this round: www.firearmstactical.com/briefs2.htm#Black-Talon.
Let's compare apples:apples - instead of the usual 7-8 single-stack 45 rounds, a flush-fit double-stack 9mm mag may carry anything up to ~18. While the plan is that your first couple of rounds finishes the discussion, the real difference is that with the low capacity at this point I'm already thinking "I'm about to run out" (and 2 more rounds puts me at 50%) compared with having plenty, plenty more to hand wiht the 9mm.
The carry round I mentioned above firstly has awesome initial penetration. This is countered by it having equally awesome expansion characteristics, which both avoid over-penetration and ensure that all of the energy is delivered to the target, as well as contribuiting to the permanent and temporal wound cavity. And at 1250 fps that's plenty of energy.
Take a look here for some very learned discussion and comparisons: www.tactical-life.com/online/exclusives/defense-loads-of-choice-the-word-from-the-street/?email=exclusives
Ayoob is one of if not the leading author on this topic. A couple of his quotes stand out: "Orlando cops are issued P226 SIGs and 127-grain +P+ Winchester, and after many shootings since, they’ve found it to be as effective as any handgun caliber could be."
Again, some more facts and numbers to support this rather than barroom opinion: www.thefiringline.com/forums/showthread.php?t=97281
Here's another thought: guess what, until they moved to the current 357SIG round (still not a 45), the US Secret Service used to carry? Trust me they have plenty of $, quite the assignment, and free range to choose. That's right, 9mm Winchester Ranger SXT +P+.
Here's some more facts and tests: www.theboxotruth.com/docs/bot23.htm there's rubbish ammo out there (as this test shows), but I like the author's comment: "First, a round of Winchester Ranger SXT 9mm, +P+, 127 grain. Why this round? Because that is what I carry in my 9mms. I believe that it is the "best of the best" for now, in non-trick ammo. ".
There's plenty of studies proving both in the lab and on the street that this 9mm round has a 90% one-shot-stop, for instance themilitiafiles.blogspot.com/2009/08/handgun-stopping-power.html
And at the end of the day - as a previous posted noted - shot placement is everything.
As a final thought, when would I very likely want a 45? Well, consider that if you are in the military, and limited to Geneva-convention rounds - ball (FMJ) - typically the basic stuff you'd use for target shooting - in this case I'd quite possibly (mag capacity notwithstanding) consider the crap 45 ammo over the crap 9mm ammo. However, hot 9mm rounds absolutely do the trick, and that's a fact that has been demonstrated, rather than an opinion.
Biting the hand that feeds IT
