Employees sue for unpaid Windows Vista overtime

To all you "15 minutes is BS" skeptics...

...It's all about the corporate environment and network...

My personal tale... cue the wavy lines indicating that we're going back in time, although, not much...

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One time, we had an all-hands meeting scheduled for 08:00 sharp. Basically it was a "come to jesus" meeting because a milestone had been missed, bonus payments would not be forthcoming and therefore upper management need not spend lunchtime pondering the wonderful range of paint jobs that BMW offers.

We had a flexitime system back then, wherein the latest you could arrive for work was 10:00 am, so by specifying 08:00, it was made crystal clear that this was a serious event. Furthermore, we were told to bring along our current status, achievements, slippage etc. No problem - I'd collated this info into a tidy little spreadsheet the night before, all I needed to do was print it out.

I arrived at work a little later than I intended - about 07:40 - and switched on my PC.

[NB - the messages below are approximate in content and order. I was far too pissed-off to recall them exactly at a later date.]

"Applying security policy"...

"Updating system settings"...

"Checking user info"...(by now it was 07:50 and my fingernails were embedded in my palms)

Finally! A login dialog! I enter my details and hit return.

The login dialog kind of grays-out and sits there...

And still it sits there..

"Starting windows desktop"...

Sweet Jesus, a windows desktop at 07:55! But Wait - What's this?

Four dos boxes appear on the screen, all doing something or other and each sternly warning me not to touch the mouse or keyboard. Give me strength!

At 07:58 I get to interact with the required apps and fire off two copies of my status report. I got into the meeting last and at 08:01. The boss said, with not an ounce of humor, that it was good of me to turn up and is it ok if we start now? Not a good start...

Long, boring (although I was anything but bored at the time) but a real-life example of how achingly slow the corporate bootup / login process can be. If you have difficulty visualising my frustration and rage, have a look at "Office Space", specifically the part where Peter is trying to quickly shut down his machine and duck out early.

I'd never noticed or known how slow the process was before that day because I'd usually switch the machine on, then head off to the stand-alone network where the testing is carried out and get all those machines started up. By the time I'd done that and grabbed a coffee to take back to my desk the login prompt would be up and it would be a relatively short wait to get started.

To summarise: This shit really does happen.

Wouldn't it be great if IT could set up an intranet page so you could book a "wake on lan" for a set time each morning? Say, 20 minutes before you are likely to turn up...

Long boot and shut down time??

Both my laptop and desktop run Vista and they boot in under 2 minutes, if that. I can't imagine an optimized Vista system taking 20 minutes to boot or shut down. Besides that, who waits around for their PC to shut down, then claims that time as "worked time"? That's bogus. Here come the lawyers. Anything for a buck.

15 mins!!!

Well my Vista x64 install at my office takes ~20 seconds to boot to login from startup, But then the machine has 4GB or Ram and a dual core 2.2 CPU..

Oh i just rebuilt the machine and that spec only cost me £120...

Vista needs loads of RAM, once it has the RAM it runs much faster than XP, with RAM being so cheap these days £35 for 4GB so stop bitching and go shopping.

Sympathy

In my former company (20,000 desktop computers) we were told "Before you depart, Shut Down and Restart". That allowed the IT gremlins to access our machines at all hours of the night. But that notwithstanding, people need to both understand their role and work smarter.

I told my people their workday started at 0730 hours and they were expected to begin the login process at that time; actual work would start whenever the computer was available. At quittin' time they were to initiate the prescribed Shut Down & Restart protocol and walk out the door.

I was assured by the IT folks our data was safe and I took them at their word. In over ten years under this system we had no important lost data. All work related data was maintained on a network drive and it worked very well.

The simple fact of the matter was my folks did their work with the resources they were given and they used those resources as I prescribed. It was not my people's job to either maintain the equipment or to compensate for it. We worked within company protocols and policies and let those in charge of the hammers and nails keeps them in proper working order.

I had a boss like that once.

Se started explaining his new policy that we had to be logged in and ready to work at the beginning of our shift. I stood up, interrupted him and asked two questions.

1. Am I correct in me belief that securing our computers by logging in and out is an important part of our jobs here?

<His answer> An exasperated yes.

2. What does *Labour Relations think of your illegal policy?

<His answer> aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa?????

That was the last we heard of that foolishness.

* Labour Relations is the Canadian Government agency tasked with protecting employees rights.

@Eddie Edwards

"Vista does not take 15 minutes to boot for me. It boots faster than any previous Microsoft OS other than DOS."

What a crock.

Vista boots slower than XP, and for reference, I put a Windows 98 PC (1GHz P3, 256MB RAM) next to a new XP PC (Pentium Dual-Core 2GHz, 2GB RAM) and the Windows 98 machine was so much faster to boot, even given that the old machine has a shit old 5400 rpm clunker, and the new one has a shiny 7200rpm drive.

So people still use that crap then?

I work in a Linux-based shop. Home folders mounted over NFS, with login validation by NIS. Only app most users run is a web browser. We reboot the machines about once a month, due to a slight memory leak most probably in either X or Iceweasel.

Why are people so thick....

1) Why are you to think to read other peoples comments... Saying "I think they are lieing. My PC tahes 30 seconds to boot" after 3 comments saying "I have just the same problem at work" just makes you look like a fuckwit.

2) This probably has nothing to do with the speed of the network, and all to do with the amount of crap they make you load on your PC. The company I work for has a on sight servers, 100G Optic line to the backup servers, everything off the main site, and is conected to JANET (Running 2 x 40G JANET lines). It could be my crap PC or the Servers, but then Im running XP. I can bet Vista is slower, as whilst it may have a fas bootup, the server will still be the same and it will have a load more to transfer.

3) Why oh Why do people keep saying "well I just sleep my PC". Bugger all use when you have to shut your PC down at night. Seems alot of people here talk the talk but dont walk the walk. I think alot of the BSers have never worked in IT, otherwise they would realise that some backups and AV programs (less and less now) NEED the PCs to shut down at some point in the day.... Oh, and you have to wait for your PC to shut down. I have had mine hang a few times, open to anyone who comes along to roam through my PC and distroy stuff. Not good when you have access to things like the accounts programs.

<untitled>

Now while i think 15 mins is a load of cobblers, i still just want to point and laugh at the poor little morons for using Vistard. HAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!.

Pointless post over.

Don't worry, i'm leaving now, mines the one with FreeBSD in the pocket

sigh

the 15 min sceptics have obviously never touched a PC on a large network. 15 mins from power on to desktop is about average for the Government PC's i support at the minute.

256mb RAM + XP + Novell Netware = enough time to get a coffee, breakfast and have a good dump before your PC is up and running.

"Vista" Overtime?

My work machine is Vista Business x86, 2GB of RAM, with a Dual-core 2.4 GHz processor. I've never had to sit for more than thirty seconds from bootup to login (updates notwithstanding), and my desktop is usable within two minutes after login, and that includes auto-starting Outlook, SQL Server, and a whole plethora of other services.

As an added comparison, my machine at home (Vista Business x86, 2GB RAM, 1.5 GHz single-core) takes about two minutes to go from boot to login, and another two minutes from login to fully-usable desktop.

While I can sympathize with the long Vista startup times, I seriously doubt that is main contributor here. Like many have said, the cause is more than likely the nozzles setting up these machines that have sub-standard hardware with loads and loads of crap to run on startup which pull more crap across a poor infrastructure.

Paris, because she's always fast.

You lot must earn too much money ...

Or at least those of you who've questioned why the machines have to be shut down must. If there's no other reason then it's cost - 100 or 1000 machines hibernating for sixteen hours are still going to cost a few quid by the end of the year.

But then that's not the only reason.

What about updating machines over night? If it's off, then nobody's going to be logged in are they? Or what if you used a Linux image to copy over a new image of Windows overnight or even just update a few files? Surely that would warrant a shut down?

Finally of course, there's the fact that the time-clock software wouldn't work too well if you put the machine to sleep 'cause the software would never know it had been put to sleep would it?

lol !

I think this guys watch goes about 5x faster than anyone elses 15 minutes to boot vista. They must all be working on 486's or something. You could load programs off a tape quicker than that!

Sounds like these people are scraping the bottom of the barrel.

WHAT!

You dont get paid for when you get into your workplace? what the....

And what is it with most of you, so quick to bash Vista, I mean what are you expecting, a 2 second boot on a 486 with 16mb memory?

Wake up, Why should vista run faster on older hardware??? it's a NEW os, I don't go expecting Crysis Warhead to work on a Vodoo 5000 gfx card with 0.0001 meg memory do I?

Been using Vista since Longhorn, yes it's had a couple of bugs, what are you going to tell me, XP was perfect when it was released????

Stop with the shit already! and what, most of you are going to bum Windows 7 when thats out?? just because everyone guesses it's going to be "awsome" because its not called "Vista"

Bullshit, Windows 7 is build on vista with fixes/improvements, and you watch how many people say its cool!

Stop with your vista crap, if your comps can't run, it dont install it, does it really have to be more complex than that?

Gates, Because he has to put up with your shit!

seriously

we run vista on a corporate domain as well and even with many apps loading at login as well as scripts and a/v updates, it may take 3-4 mins tops to get to my desktop and the drive to stop thrashing. seriously, your dns is whacked or your vista workstations may have various crap that is not necessary.

i for one have found that TPM and various applications for accessing TPM dont work well at all for vista and should not be used unless absolutely necessary. it was the magic bullet for our current dell gear. instead we use ipsec vpn clients and all data is secured on network and doesnt leave on laptops, which has the added benefit of being properly and frequently backed up. now our workstations run smoothly.

the moral is to learn to tune your workstations, this goes for any version of windows. turn off unwanted services, make sure your services dependencies are in order so that your timecard services start right after network services. otherwise you have other network issues to look into. learn group policies and ou planning to start with and your shit will boot and login like a champ, mine does...

ps: i cant believe this is even for real. those network admins need to be replaced.

@WHAT!

"Stop with your vista crap, if your comps can't run, it dont install it, does it really have to be more complex than that?"

I've forwarded your message to our finance and it directors so they can stop buying new computers to run Vista on. New meaning "built with Vista as the target OS" and it runs like a dog.

It's not complex to expect a new computer to run Vista is it?

It's overblown with a flashy UI that's inconsistent and unhelpful.

XP wasn't perfect when it was released but the overall design philosophy behind it wasn't as just plain wrong as the one behind vista, so it started off in a better place.

"Bullshit, Windows 7 is build on vista with fixes/improvements, and you watch how many people say its cool!"

Let's just look at a few things people have thought were cool over the years

steps

spice girls

flared trousers

The Mullet

People say lots of things are cool, that's not really a great indication of what is actually good, more an indication of the stupidity of humans.

I've seen W7 and it's vista with bigger taskbar buttons...wow, I truly feel blessed to know this is the future.

Start time

Who are all these idiots saying that people should turn up to work before their start time? What the FUCK? Why on earth should people give up their own free time, without compensation, just because the employer's policies make them waste the first few minutes after they get there?

Stooooopid

Will he sue the government if he gets stuck in traffic too?

More frivilous law-suits its a wonder there is any money left in America, oh wait, there isnt.

Vista Can Get F~CKED

I am an experienced Windows user, from v3.1, DOS, in my early childhood, to the Vista on a 2.4 ghz laptop I have today.

Vista has caused me to lose time, lose jobs, fail interviews, fuck up deadlines, and for what? For the reason that XP is STILL 180 quid to buy despite the fact that it's a 'defunct' OS.

I'll be controversial here - I LIKE XP. It worked.

Vista doesn't work at all. Windows Explorer (the browser and the shell) crashes at the merest search, copy, delete function request. It is the biggest mistake Microsoft have made in years.

Not to mention the fact that it is a perfect environment for rootkits, despite four years of R&D to prevent exactly that.

Actually this is a long standining issue.

This is a long standing issue that doesnt just effect windows vista.

For a long time now, UK companies have had the "Time Vs. Security" issue highlighted and put in check y various unions.

The Communication Workers Union sorted this issue out quite some time ago.

When will other companies realise that you can not update systems or security or anything that effects user logon and expect the user (employee) to foot the bill in personal time.

Logging on, whether it be secure or not, is a process that the company should take responsibilty for. If the company does not it opens up the realm of "Time no longer Vs. Security"

A company could have a logon system that could take 15 minutes to get into and expect the employee to arrive 15 minutes early for their shift - or not pay them for the 15 minutes at the beginning of their shift. This is not acceptable under any circumstance.

This is kind of old news, highlighted by another Microsoft release of a system that takes even longer to start than their previous versions. Wasn't Vista suposed to be faster and better?