Microsoft polishes up Chromium as EdgeHTML peers into the abyss Microsoft could be preparing to ditch the EdgeHTML layout engine of its unloved Edge browser in Windows 10 in favour of Chromium, according to reports surfacing on the eve of the company's developer event Connect();. The reports point to a mystery project, codenamed Anaheim, which will replace Edge as the default web browser …
"Unless you were urging MS only outfits to decay and atrophy and shrink. Which I suppose works, too."
It's a very good interpretation, especially as they were his former former employer. It would be a good reason to move them from current to former status and get out ahead of the crowd.
Actually, no I don’t. I’m quite shocked the author thinks web developers wants a rendering engine monoculture. I rarely bother to test all the browsers these days because compatibility and standards compliance is very good, unlike the bad old days where I’d need to test every f***ing version of IE and write custom CSS hacks for it.
I don’t want to go back to the bad old days of zero web innovation or progress, MS ditching Edge can only be a bad thing.
The only reason MS produce a free web browser is to direct users to ads and services they control to try and monetise the end user. To spend money on developing your own rendering engine just to do this does seem like a waste from a commercial perspective. So if you can just use a already existing open source engine with your own skin on top you can achieve the same result for less costs.
Most users of Edge probably wouldn't realise that the underlying rendering engine had even changed. They just use it because it has the 'e' logo which is what they have always used to connect to the internet since the days of IE.
Look where the graphics code went in Linux too....
No way you can have a fast GUI today while going back and forth continuously from ring 0 and 3.
Or look at the tricks kernel developers used in all OSes to make page available without going through rings transitions - which Meltdown exploited.
Edge was never a rewrite from scratch of IE. Not only did it share some of the same bugs, writing a new browser from scratch is a huge undertaking. Edge was IE without bits of shit like ActiveX. It had a new JS runtime and some other with bangs but basically built on the rewrites that started with IE 9. But without the lockin of ActiveX and no mobile base, it was obviously never going to be much more than the help viewer on Windows.
The IE team from IE 9 should be given credit for picking up the pieces of an abandoned project and working hard to implement web standards and continuing to do this with Edge. I think this means that Edge is a little bit more standards-compliant than Safari. Not bad considering where they were 10 years ago.
Or Chrome, if somehow you think Google data slurping is morally superior to MS data slurping.
Considering you are 'paying' Google for use of everything it provides by your usage, while Windows also theoretically* can still come with a pricetag, so you are paying MS twice.
I'd say, potentially, yes, Google slurp is morally superior (not that that is saying much).
* I say theoretically, as most people get it with a computer and regard it as free. As I go out of my way to avoid any bundling options with my computer purchases, if I wanted to use Windows I'd have to buy it.
"Google slurp is morally superior (not that that is saying much)."
I can't go with you there, because, like Facebook, Google slurps your data whether or not you're using Google products (or even whether or not you're using the internet). As far as I know, Microsoft doesn't present as comprehensive an attack as that.
Wow. Have you looked at the desktop OS market share recently? Since September, Windows market share is dropping pronouncedly, and something unknown is coming up. I don't think people are running away in droves ... but it seems they're fed up with spying and data-mining and turning their privacy protection up to 11.
I don't think they have changed anything in September. If they had, there should be more discontinuity in the numbers.
Something happened on the user side that prevented them to be counted to "Windows". It prevented them to be counted to one of the other named OSs. The users counted went from "Windows" to "unknown". The easiest explanation is that those users changed their telemetry settings – stopped browsers and the OS from reporting the correct data.
We don't see it on other statistic services because they have a different metric. Netmarketshare, for instance, was always criticized for counting only corporate users using a specific set of web applications (biasing towards Windows). Those users are unlikely to wiggle their privacy settings.
Now, one can wonder why this is happening, and happening now. There's an easy suspect.
The problem with edge has never really been the rendering engine itself. It's always been the UI and ancillary bullshit.
As a prime example, for the longest time (I haven't used Edge in yonks so I don't know if they finally changed it) there was this "feature" in edge and IE that would turn phone numbers into clickable links so you could skype people from a web page (or presumably on a winphone, just dial them). You could turn it off in IE's internet options if you didn't want to to do that. Edge, however, didn't listen to those settings, and just did that bit of formatting, whether you liked it or not.
IE in alĺ it's incarnations had it's uses, granted.
Edge is shockingly poor.
Come to think of it, Microsoft should just quit trying to provide a browser full stop.
If only Windows 10 could be as usable as Windows 7.....
And why does MS think it's a great idea to put a useless overlay on stuff like "setings"? There was nothing wrong with the Control Panel, so let us add another layer of obfuscation!
If only Windows 10 could be as usable as Windows 7.....
Not sure what you mean here. I use Windows 10 every day. I also used to use Windows 7 every day. Never had any problems with either.
And why does MS think it's a great idea to put a useless overlay on stuff like "setings"? There was nothing wrong with the Control Panel, so let us add another layer of obfuscation!
Yeah, I'm totally with you here. I really hate having settings panels that can be resized and don't rely on a thousand fiddly tabs and dialog boxes to control everything. I just don't get what they were thinking. Clearly the design team should be given a good talking to.
I use both every day, and I can't deny that Windows 7 is far easier to use than Windows 10.
I guess it depends what you're actually doing all day, but I tend to run the same software most days and the OS doesn't get in the way of me doing that. I've heard it opined that Windows 10 is a little faster and a little less resource heavy than Windows 7, but I have no solid evidence to back that up. I noticed virtually no difference in my day to day work when I switched to Windows 10. (I won't say the procedure was totally pain free, but it was a lot less painful than most macOS updates.)
If anything, Windows 10 is slightly nicer to use - being able to layout the applications I use the most (that aren't pinned to the task bar) the way I want in the start menu is way better than the constantly reorganising recent programs list of Windows 7, and the applications list is infinitely better than the All Programs menu from earlier incarnations of Windows.
The *one* issue I do constantly hit is that the Fn key is right next to the Windows key on my laptop and more often than not I hit the wrong one and suddenly enter Windows Tiling Mode instead of going to the start/end of the line. I should probably figure out how to disable the Windows shortcuts, but well... I'm lazy. :)
being able to layout the applications I use the most (that aren't pinned to the task bar) the way I want in the start menu is way better than the constantly reorganising recent programs list of Windows 7
That's easy to do in 7. Just drag them into place at the top of the list. I think once you move your first one you have a line appear, above which is the stuff you want there and below which is the auto-generated list. Which I think you can change as well. But been so long since I've installed 7 I can't fully remember, I just know that I have an organised list of my stuff where I want it :)
That's easy to do in 7. Just drag them into place at the top of the list. I think once you move your first one you have a line appear, above which is the stuff you want there
Yep, and I did use that, but it was a bit limited space wise. Currently I have 30 applications pinned to the start menu in Windows 10, grouped and organised according to use and/or function. (Mostly - there are a few bits and pieces I haven't bothered organising fully, but it's got everything I need on a day to day basis within easy reach.)
That's easy to do in 7. Just drag them into place at the top of the list. I think once you move your first one you have a line appear, above which is the stuff you want thereYep, and I did use that, but it was a bit limited space wise.
Yeah that's a part of why I don't bother with Windows much any more. With Linux I can have more than one bar, even more than one at the bottom. So that gives me room for a normal Win7-like bar down the bottom (rather MS copied others but I say W7 like to make it easier to visualise :) ), and along the top I have a number of most-used stuff and some status stuff (CPU/RAM/Net monitor etc). If I am doing some work that's needing a few other things I'll put in left and/or right bars and add more to them.
I can also have different bars on different physical screens (at least in Mate, haven't yet tried it with Cinnamon or KDE). That means I can have one set of tools in my main screen and other sets in my side screen(s) as desired.
I'd say it's much more productive but my first day on a new machine is spent playing with combinations of icons :)
"I guess it depends what you're actually doing all day"
This is almost certainly true. I use Windows because I develop Windows applications. I don't use Windows on my personal machines, though, so my entire Windows experience is through the lens of a developer doing his job.
"If anything, Windows 10 is slightly nicer to use"
This is clearly a matter of personal taste, but I find Windows 10 less pleasant to use.
"being able to layout the applications I use the most (that aren't pinned to the task bar) the way I want in the start menu"
The start menu is one of my major gripes about Windows 10. Fortunately, that's easy to fix by using a replacement start menu. You and I clearly use the start menu differently, though, as I don't think I've ever reorganized the recently used list.
"the applications list is infinitely better than the All Programs menu from earlier incarnations of Windows."
I am of the exact opposite opinion!
I use Windows because I develop Windows applications.
I'm a software engineer. :) I spend most of my time in Visual Studio. Aside from that, all other tools I use regularly are pinned to either the task bar or the start menu. My personal machines are my work machines, so it's Windows all the way for me - along with my ageing Mac and half a dozen iOS and Android test devices that is.
" ... the recently used list ... "
It's not a " recently used list".
It's the "shit I use all the time list".
If it's "recently used", that means I don't use it often enough to need being on a "list". And I'll just go look for it again , whenever ( if ever ) I need it again.
Even though this has been a thing since at least Windows 7, it's not something that works for me. It requires me to remember the name of the application I want to run. If it's one I run a lot, then it's already pinned anyway, and if it's one that I don't run a lot then I'm unlikely to remember what it's called and will end up going through the list anyway.
"I use both every day, and I can't deny that Windows 7 is far easier to use than Windows 10."
I use neither every day, and it's getting harder and harder to use them occasionally as they hide formerly obvious choices behind layers of crap.
Example: I reboot a laptop into windows and it gets really fussy about the wifi connection, connecting but constantly giving up on something that worked perfectly minutes earlier when the same hardware was running Linux.
Microsoft are not only getting less relevant, they're making it increasingly difficult to go back to Windows once you're using something else.
"they're making it increasingly difficult to go back to Windows once you're using something else."
Yeah, that's always been the case, though. When I show up at work and have to start using Windows, it always feels like I've gone from driving a sports car to driving a Gremlin.
I general I can get on with Windows 10 but not the Settings Panels; Control Panel served it's purpose perfectly well and was one place to find, pretty much, all the settings. Now there are multiple pages of badly organised links that still don't lead you to what you want.
Settings change from control panel is intended to move from the 90s application UI and Win32 dependency to UWP which can run platform independent and in theory is more responsive to work on any device. It's great for tablet use. Was great for mobile, but they missed that boat so we've got ever changing confusing settings on Android devices instead ;)
Until I saw this article I didn't know that Edge was on iOS. I just had a look... it's in the App Store. It also has a 17+ age rating. I kinda wonder how that's enforced...
Memo to Microsoft Marketing: you boys ain't doing your job. Y'all ain't gonna get many victims... ah, that is, 'customers'... if they don't bloody know that your product bloody exists! And putting in ridiculous unenforceable age restrictions ain't helping!
The age restriction is from the Apple store. Every browser in there is rated "17+" since you can access the naughty bits of teh Interwebz with them, and even Apple cannot restrict THAT usage for a mere browser. (It's enforced by the age setting in the used Apple account. Yes, you can lower the age setting if you give a device to your kid, or if you share your account with your family. No, I do not know how well this is working, how secure it is, or how easy kids could hack that, since I am an adult by my lonesome and never needed to meddle with that.) Further, the age restriction set in the App Store is, AFAIK, only for downloading and buying, not using (there may be something age restrictive for using, too, but, well, see above.)
I appreciate stupidity for stupidity sake, but Edge is a much better browser. It doesn't replace Internet Explorer. It replaces Chrome. As Windows 10 is adopted more and more, Edge will own the market. Its just pacing itself. As for Chromium open source, Microsoft is embracing it, but as its open source nobody owns it and certainly not Google. So its best to just keep quiet about things you don't understand. I'm sure Microsoft is looking to create a chromium browser just like anyone else. Since Google is trying to hold it back from Windows 10 on Arm. Giving users options is the best way to ensure life is good for Windows.
As Windows 10 is adopted more and more, Edge will own the market.
Gartner said something like that about the Windows phone not long back either..
I am the sole owner of the London-Paris road bridge. I find I am making far too much money from it however, and would like to sell off some of the shares in it to other people who wish to get 10,000% pa returns on their investment.
I have chosen you for this exclusive offer due to your obvious intelligence and sophistication. If you would like to complete this purchase.............
"It is hard to see much of a downside to Microsoft ditching EdgeHTML in favour of Chromium"
I know that the author was probably referring to the downside to Microsoft, but this has some big downsides to everyone else. It is increasing the web monoculture, it is entrenching Google's dominance, it is furthering Microsoft's intrusion into open source, etc.
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