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That was fast... unlike old iPhones: Apple sued for slowing down mobes

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Headmaster

"...chums water"

...churns water, Shirley?

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Headmaster

Re: "...chums water"

chum2/tʃʌm/

noun

chopped fish and other material thrown overboard as angling bait.

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Re: "...chums water"

I recline corrected.

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Silver badge

Re: "...chums water"

"chopped fish and other material thrown overboard as angling bait."

Chum is also used to attract predatory fish...like sharks (now you see why the term was used).

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Anonymous Coward

Makes you wonder

Given that Mrs Anonymous Coward just bought a new iPad because she felt the old one was slow and unresponsive whether a battery change would have given it new life.

Mind you she didn't try resetting the iPad either.

(Nor consider my suggestions for giving her laptop a boost with an SSD)

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Re: Makes you wonder

"Mind you she didn't try resetting the iPad either."

Hmmm. Far be it for me to play amateur psychologist, but I would suspect here that Mrs. Anon just fancied a new iPad, and made the facts fit the case.

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Seems like a fair technique to manage the declining performance of tired Lithium Ion cells, but Apple could have been upfront about the issue or even provided a toggle setting to switch this feature on/off.

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Anonymous Coward

"To provide a better experience to customers"

This is bunch of lies. Can Apple explain -

1. Why other smart phones Google Pixel, Samsung etc. do not have this issue?

2. Why after replacing battery with new one, still have the same issues like -

- have to wait 5-10 seconds before camera becomes live,

- applications die randomly,

- phone reboots all of sudden

time to dump iphone and look for another smart phone....

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Re: "To provide a better experience to customers"

You're basing this on observations not facts. The cpu throttling is proven to only relate to battery demand performance

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Re: "To provide a better experience to customers"

@Max : my observations also clash with the “facts” unfortunately. Who do I talk to to get my facts straight ? And the SE used by the missus up to speed ? My observation was that after updating to 11.x on her device it ran slower and the battery life got worse.

Make no mistake, I am deeply entrenched in the Apple ecosystem, but if they don’t start making batteries replaceable I’ll switch when this iPhone 7 dies. Not that Apple will care, if they keep selling 1000 euro phones faster than they can make ‘em... Alternatively I would settle for 2 update branches, one for basic security updates and one for new “features” that I have no need for.

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Re: "To provide a better experience to customers"

"This is bunch of lies. Can Apple explain -

1. Why other smart phones Google Pixel, Samsung etc. do not have this issue?

2. Why after replacing battery with new one, still have the same issues like -

- have to wait 5-10 seconds before camera becomes live,

- applications die randomly,

- phone reboots all of sudden

time to dump iphone and look for another smart phone...."

Given that this is a 'laws of physics' problem, it's guaranteed that Pixel, Samsung etc will have the same problem. They might manage it in a different way (e.g. reducing global performance rather than peak throttling), or they might just allow devices to spontaneously reboot, or they might (my favorite) just not bother updating the devices at all after a certain period.

My hope is that however they do it, their communication is better than Apple's. Because that's the real problem here.

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Re: "To provide a better experience to customers"

"Given that this is a 'laws of physics' problem, it's guaranteed that Pixel, Samsung etc will have the same problem. They might manage it in a "

I dont think this is a "law of physics problems that other manufacturers also will encounter".

Every other phone manufacturer uses the same sort of batteries in their phones.

But its only apple who now seems to have such serious problems with 'standard' battery degradation over time , that they have to choose for the 'drastic' solution of reducing frequency.

I think this more points to or a 'ios' operating system issue, that they dont seem to be able to counter, or is this would be more worrying, a archtiectural design issue with their apple phone processors.

I was already wondered, that apple who is relatively new in the phone processor business could have been so successfull in designing processors, that beats out established phone processors players like qualcomm or arm.

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Re: "To provide a better experience to customers"

"But its only apple who now seems to have such serious problems with 'standard' battery degradation over time , that they have to choose for the 'drastic' solution of reducing frequency."

I have actually, personally, experience spontaneous reboots on my Samsung phone. In most cases, it's an unacknowledged problem. In my case, though, it's a Note 4, meaning all I had to do to solve the problem was change out the obviously-knackered battery (it was showing the first signs of bulging) for a new one.

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Facepalm

Good idea, implemented badly

I think its technically a good idea, but as mentioned the lack of notification or choice to the user is the issue I think most people have. The technical reasoning behind it I think most people get.

But if you think cars: you get a oil warning light, or a battery light come on.

If the CPU is being throttled then the iPhone knows its being throttled (i've seen other stories around the net with app's showing usage on phone then vs now values). So why not just have a phone performance/health indicator or graph over time. (and maybe a turn on/off switch) this simple 'phone requires a health check' indicator is all that's needed surely.

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This also explains why when I powered on my iPhone 5 I was greeted with a pop-up message: You will update your iOS NOW or you will update your iOS later. Also explains why when I tried to dismiss the message by pressing the home button I was ignored. I had to power off the phone and delete the update from memory which the phone had already downloaded without my permission and contrary to my setting, Do not update anything.

Apple has all their fanboys lined up around the block to buy the latest shiny toys and to download the latest operating system because it has a larger number e.g. 10.0 vs. 9.3. While I'm a user of Apple products I am no longer a fan.

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"The Cupertino idiot-tax operation's..."

Grow the fuck up.

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"Wow, your iPhone is so fast! Is it new?"

"No, I changed the battery."

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Perhaps manufacturers like Apple and Samsung that choose to embed the battery into the phone to make it none replaceable by the end user should be obliged under consumer law to replace the battery for free, for a minimum of 2 years after the sale date.

If I am spending hundreds of pounds on a premium phone I shouldn't have to pay an extra $79 for someone to fit a $5 part that they knew would require replacing during the phones life time.

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Anonymous Coward

They do...

If it fails due to a fault and you live in the EU...

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Anonymous Coward

Re: They do...

I wonder if the battery not being able to provide peak output as per the 'specs' could be classed as a fault?

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It would be interesting

to see if there's any correlation between the issue of 'slow down' updates (downdates?) to older iphones and the imminent release of a new model.

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Re: It would be interesting

Yes, if you check Google stats, a lot more people search why is my iphone running slow around the time of a new release.

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It's clearly a tool to encourage upgrading

Why else would they have waited before rolling it out to the newer iPhone 7?

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Anonymous Coward

Mains powered phones?

Perhaps I'm dumb, but if the reason was to prevent unexpected crashes because the battery can't deliver peak current, why don't the phones run at full speed on charger?

DAVE

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Anonymous Coward

Re: Mains powered phones?

I'm going to hate myself for saying this (and possibly defending Apple) - I'm no battery or electronics expert, but my understanding is even when charging, phones are powered by the battery, and the mains current adds to the battery as it's inputting more than the battery is outputting.

If the battery is struggling to output enough power, it may not make a difference how much power is being input to it at the time.

You can see the inverse of this on Samsung tablets: charge it off a PC USB 1/2 port while using it, and the battery icon will have a red X through it, indicating that although it has external power, it's not getting more than the battery is outputting so the battery is draining, albeit more slowly. If it had switched directly to the USB input, it wouldn't have enough power and would fail.

Happy to be corrected by someone who does know what they're talking about. :)

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Anonymous Coward

Re: Mains powered phones?

Close - it will draw power from the battery if the charger cannot provide enough to run the device. Similarly, the battery may charge more slowly (or not at all) if the device is using lots of power.

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This would be easily fixed

If they had an on/off toggle, defaulted to On, in the Power Management area. Then I could make my own choices whether I'd rather have 10 minutes of battery life from my ailing battery, or 2 hours of battery life throttled. Some of us who dance between power points don't need much charge, but we do like our phones to work consistently.

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Anonymous Coward

Re: This would be easily fixed

I don't think you are getting it, your phone won't work consistently if you turn it off.

This isn't about extending battery charge via CPU throttling via normal power management. That's just a side effect, not the purpose.

This is about system stability. The older batteries can't cope with peak demand anymore, therefore the CPU is throttled in order to stop the phone from crashing/rebooting when demand is too much, due to voltage instability.

If you switched this off, you'll end up with a phone randomly crashing and rebooting whenever it was pushed a bit harder. Which is the opposite of what you seemed to be asking for with regards to consistently working.

PS: I dislike how Apple have handled this. But technically (I'm an electronics engineer) I can see why it was done.

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Paris Hilton

Pull the other one

So these phones go full speed as soon as you plug them in right, because it's about protecting the consumer not about planned obsolescence.

Paris to represent those that believe it's about the UX

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I wonder?

Could you imagine if other lithium battery machines throttle in the same way. Hop in your 5 year old Tesla Model S to find ludicrous mode is now limited to 45mph :)

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Replaceable battery

I have a Samsung Note 4 that was suffering from battery issues. I purchased a kit containing 2 replacement batteries and an external charger over a year ago for just over $30 and my phone was back to 100%. Every now and then I get itchy to upgrade, but for my usage patterns there just isn't enough incentive to move. My biggest pain point will be sacrificing the ability to easily replace the battery and memory card.

Waterproofing not as important to me as the ability to have access to swap basic components.

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It's likely because you're holding it wrong.

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Mushroom

Apple Batteries

They're no bother at all to replace. Seriously. Upgraded the piss poor performing battery in my iPhone 6S Plus to a 4880mAh Japanese manufactured replacement and it now lasts all day on a single charge with heavy use.

The only difficulty was the three industrial strength adhesive strips all snapping off in mid-pull which required a heat bag and plastic card to eventually almost bend itself in half causing heart palpitations and fear of involuntary fire and potential explosion.

Downside is I can't get through the car barrier at work because I used my employee building entry card to prise it out and snapped it in two.

On the plus side, I can look at more cat pictures than I ever could before.

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Re: Apple Batteries

"They're no bother at all to replace. Seriously."

No, NOT serioiusly. No bother should mean "no tools necessary". You know, as in pop the lid where indicated, replace the battery, and close again. Like on my Note 4 and S5 (the latter which, BTW, also has waterproofing AND a replaceable cover, so the waterproofing argument is BS).

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Holmes

I call BS

This whole story is BS.

Our iPhone 5 is slower than a noname android tablet with 512Mb of RAM and pre-historic CPU at rendering web pages, so, there has to be a calculatePi() in there, I assume iPhone 6 just got the same treatment with the release of the new mobes. No CPU down-scaling, simply the if has been updated to include iPhone 6, admittedly, it might be worsened by CPU scaling, however, I doubt it ... our iPhone 5 even after factory reset grinds to a halt as soon as you install latest updates (I'll re-baptize that iPhone downdates from now on).

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Okay..

so the iPhone 6s my company bought me to replace my personal iPhone 4s, that kept dying in the cold, will throttle back, but not die. This sounds like a good idea. However, could the company have saved money by knowing that buying me a battery replacement would have fixed the original problem? I think the answer is yes - so should Apple be refunding (part of) the difference? Let the courts decide.

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Anonymous Coward

I wouldn't buy a phone you couldn't change the battery for yourself

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Weak batteries... what a great excuse

It would be interesting to see if the throttling is turned off after the battery is replaced. I've got a feeling old phones with new batteries would still be running slow.

Weak batteries.... what a lame excuse. Maybe the iFans aren't sending Apple enough cash so Apple decided to give them a little nudge.

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Childcatcher

The Message

While I don't think the lawsuit will go anywhere (after agreeing to the 10 page mind numbing user agreement) it sends the right kind of message to Apple customers to be wary of the hype and glitz Apple presents the world. Apple's very well known for it's orchestrated product obsolesence rendering still functional, working products useless.

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Anonymous Coward

This is why people shouldn’t ever buy anything ever...

Because the disappointment will crush you into insignificance.

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FAIL

Where is the "battery saver" option?

Slap a button named "battery saver".

If checked, CPU is throttled to oblivion, but battery lasts the advertised™

If unchecked, CPU will run at full tilt, and the phone dies whenever batteries run out.

Is that so hard to implement? Nobody would be even upset.

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Anonymous Coward

Rewind to 2001

The good old Nokia or Blackberry.

I do not remember having any issues when using any of this phones in -15. yes the battery have drained quicker that's about it. Even after using the phone for a year as you didnt change your handset every xmas

I'm not the expert in this the old phones have been running some kind of system too. Why did this issues not occurred then ?

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Silver badge

Re: Rewind to 2001

Neither of them had high-intensity applications like serious games or media playback. Both of these can cause battery usage to spike higher than anything they could've experience. Some even drain faster than the charger can keep up.

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Facepalm

Re: Rewind to 2001

I played games and media on my Blackberry. Never a charging issue. Move up a few years, company replaces Blackberrys with iPhones. Now I can't reliably play Golf on it even plugged in! (OK, the Golf is a more labour intensive game but still). Waterproofing, tish. I've NEVER dropped any company phone in water or dropped an cracked a screen. Perhaps it's because it doesn't belong to me but I like to think that's not the case. PP

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Happy

Merry Christmas, Apple

This news pleases me.

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4 years from now....

people will be really pissed when they find out they can no longer wireless charge their phones as fast as they used to in 2017 due to battery degradation. And today’s $80 battery replacement will be $110 then.

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Anonymous Coward

Yawn

I must own the only two older iPhones that have not slowed down with age!!! Wifes 5S & my 6+ are both as fast as they were when purchased many moons back & both have less than 10% battery degradation even though they are charged every night without fail. Still get at least a full day without needing to charge out of both with plenty of screen on use (usually placed on charge with circa. 20% battery left). Both handsets are completely up to date with iOS updates as well.

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Facepalm

I'm not going for the matches yet but...

Well this is sad news. Even their "excuse" sounds weak. They ruined OS 10.13.2 High Sierra too, I tried it. It's buggy as f**k. Useless. They might as well pour petrol on the whole company and drop a match on it at this point.

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Anonymous Coward

Old cr*apped out batteries will cause constant device shutdowns at heavy load!

I hate Apple. Really, REALLY hate them. But... when I wiped the multigigabyte virus called Windows 10 from my i5 laptop (it had installed inself while I was away enjoying coffee one afternoon), installed Windows 7 Professional and set everything to max while on battery as a power plan: screen 100% brightness, CPU 100% performance at all times, Hard Drives at 100%, WiFi 100% etc... the battery couldn't cope and the thing would simply switch off because it was incapable of providing the amps. My battery would only charge to 98%. F*cked it was. Imagine the uproar if all users of older iPhones experienced something like this whenever they upgraded their OS. Also, constantly switching it back on again and again right after it failed could also cause the battery to overheat and explode. That would certainly be a horrible "customer experience". Sorry, I'm with Apple on this one... bleug! (runs away to jump off the roof onto heavy traffic)...

...(survived) At least with my Asus laptop, I can replace the battery and sort the issue, and do so conveniently and cheaply. For all the jesusness of the jesusphonne they do seem to have it in for mother earth. Wouldn't happen in a pagan company.

Explaining to users about the reasons why would have diminished the jesusglow. Apples "just work" don't they? Saints Paul, John, Luke and Erik would be p*ssed they had to think about something.

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Anonymous Coward

Re: Old cr*apped out batteries will cause constant device shutdowns at heavy load!

Frankly, if what you describe were to occur in any other industry, consumer safety laws would demand a recall at the manufacturer's expense.

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